SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First and foremost, always value yourself. Your WW is showing by her actions that she does not respect you. She mouths the pretty words to keep you in line, while behind your back she is pining for her AP. You deserve better! File for D and move on. There are better women out there for you who are not inveterate liars and cheats. You don’t need to engage with her or argue about snooping. Her actions are the reason their is no trust. She knows she has been unfaithful and broken your promises. Value yourself. Hold your head up and move on.

I hear all of you

Robert22205https

I could confront her face to face and stay calm and use your strategy.

I don't want to get to a polygraph. If we need a polygraph, our M is dead already

crazyblindsided

I'm in IC and I've relied on friends and family A LOT. They are all fed up. They all told me to leave her and move on.

I don't want to get to a polygraph. If we need a polygraph, our M is dead already

While I not only agree with this quote, I used one much like it (the only reason I didn't get a poly is because I spied on her drunk conversation with a friend that was as good as a polygraph with respect to the info I needed to R.), you need to realize your W killed your M with the affair.

You have to decide if you want a new one with her. And if you do want one, what do you need from her to make it work?

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 3:02 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

After painful months of promises, time spent together, lovemaking, getting closer, etc this feels like another betrayal.

It feels like another betrayal because IT IS another betrayal.

I don't want to get to a polygraph. If we need a polygraph, our M is dead already

This is said all the time and it entirely misses the point of the polygraph, which is to: 1. Give you the most complete information possible so you can make an informed decision 2. Possibly exert enough psychic pressure on a WS to come clean.

However, if you feel you already have enough information to make a decision -- and have now been betrayed a second, third or more times -- then a polygraph shouldn't be necessary at all.

Also from what you write even before you learned this new information, it doesn't sound like you were in anything approaching reconciliation at all in any shape or form. What you've had seemingly this entire time is a WW without remorse and demonstrating her lack of remorse to you consistently.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:09 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

This0is0Fine

We had decided to work on a new marriage.

I was working on myself, she was working in herself

From her, I simply wanted honesty, transparency, to end the affair and protect us.

I've been kind, honest, loving, present, hopeful.

I really don't think what she has done and continue doing. {I guess she has a massive sense of entitlement; or simply her feelings for this man obscure everything we have, are and have had

Thumos

that's what I think and feel.

I can already see her justify and manipulate reality

Even now I’m thinking that perhaps is not that bad, it’s just a small relapse.

Bullshiit, correct?

She has lo respect for me or for our marriage.

She only thinks about her drama with the toxic friend and the AP.

Zero care of mention of me, my feelings

Even now I’m thinking that perhaps is not that bad, it’s just a small relapse.

Bullshiit, correct?

Yeah it is. BS that is.

Sure, it might be 'small' in the big-picture view. But in the big-picture view, the truth that this 'small' thing shows is that she doesn't care about your feelings, she is still willing to lie and engage in wayward behavior, and lastly that she is not a safe partner. Those aren't small things, those are REALLY big things.

Even now I’m thinking that perhaps is not that bad, it’s just a small relapse.

Remember that you are also grieving because of this. Infidelity kills the old M. The above is similar to bargaining. Any relapse of the A or a subsequent A is bad really bad. It shows no remorse or respect. She sees you hurting and in pain, trying to save the M and put your heart and soul into it. Where is her effort? What work is she doing on herself to become a better and safer person?

She will fight over her privacy.

She will tell me that I've broken her trust.

she will tell me that I've crossed her boundaries and that what she does is private.

She will tell me that I am a controlling abuser and that I will never change.

Well, there's your problem right there. You guys rugswept and I say that because there should have been agreed-upon transparency all this time. Post-adultery, privacy is for the potty. It's not for phones, emails, friends, etc. There shouldn't be a damned thing coming out of her mouth behind your back that she's not willing to say to your face... and vice versa. Transparency and checking is the norm after an adultery. It's how the sausage gets made in terms of rebuilding trust.

So... what do you do now that you've messed this part up? I'd say, you cop to it, get back on the horse, and do it right next time. Right now, you're assuming that you know what her response is going to be to finding out that you've monitored her phone. And heck, you're probably right. But here's the thing, if she doesn't really want that divorce, she's going to blow a gasket about how controlling you are, but after that, she'll cool off and agree with you that she's abused her privacy AGAIN and that she was indeed saying things behind your back that she wouldn't say to your face. It's okay for the conflict to be messy, right? What matters is that the conflict is constructive in the end and that you both get something out of it. Conflict is OPPORTUNITY. Checking is OPPORTUNITY. Learning to keep an HONEST tongue in her head is going to take practice. You've let her get away with a rugsweep so now she thinks that's her due. But who knows, with the marriage in the balance, maybe she'll surprise you.

What have you got to lose at this point?

Remember that you are also grieving because of this. Infidelity kills the old M. The above is similar to bargaining. Any relapse of the A or a subsequent A is bad really bad. It shows no remorse or respect. She sees you hurting and in pain, trying to save the M and put your heart and soul into it. Where is her effort? What work is she doing on herself to become a better and safer person?

I know. exactly this.

I've been in an EXTREMELY distress and pain.

I've tried so much.

she has relentlessly accused me of being abusive for ALL pour marriage.

Because I didn't want to lose herm and I felt weak and bad, I honored her truth; I told her that I wanted to change and grow.

And I've. I brought wisdom, love, understanding, support, friendship into our R. I saw that she did too, but I guess her feelings are too strong, or she simply cannot conceive the damage and the hurt, and she is just selfishly uprising her agenda. She stopped drinking (she abused alcohol) tat's no matter what good.

I am so fed up with her, her toxic friend, the thought of the AP. I've been struggling with PTSD, nightmare, self esteem destroyed, and meanwhile she can;t even stop this once and for all.

Well, there's your problem right there. You guys rugswept and I say that because there should have been agreed-upon transparency all this time. Post-adultery, privacy is for the potty. It's not for phones, emails, friends, etc. There shouldn't be a damned thing coming out of her mouth behind your back that she's not willing to say to your face... and vice versa. Transparency and checking is the norm after an adultery. It's how the sausage gets made in terms of rebuilding trust.

So... what do you do now that you've messed this part up? I'd say, you cop to it, get back on the horse, and do it right next time. Right now, you're assuming that you know what her response is going to be to finding out that you've monitored her phone. And heck, you're probably right. But here's the thing, if she doesn't really want that divorce, she's going to blow a gasket about how controlling you are, but after that, she'll cool off and agree with you that she's abused her privacy AGAIN and that she was indeed saying things behind your back that she wouldn't say to your face. It's okay for the conflict to be messy, right? What matters is that the conflict is constructive in the end and that you both get something out of it. Conflict is OPPORTUNITY. Checking is OPPORTUNITY. Learning to keep an HONEST tongue in her head is going to take practice. You've let her get away with a rugsweep so now she thinks that's her due. But who knows, with the marriage in the balance, maybe she'll surprise you.

What have you got to lose at this point?

I know.

I'm deciding if another attempt at explaining to her that honesty is the cornerstone of the marriage that I want.

Honestly, right now I feel drained, hopeless, devastated.

The fact that she can look at me in my eyes, and STILL lie, or hide is just devastating.

Last night she was mad at me because I was being cold, "withdrawing affections" and again implying that I'm abusing her.

It feels hopeless.

[This message edited by alucard at 4:28 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

Last night she was mad at me because I was being cold, "withdrawing affections" and again implying that I'm abusing her.

She is abusing you. She is using DARVO. Google it.

You need to 180. Take care of yourself. Tell her she can date as many men as she wants, but not with you as her husband. If she thinks that's controlling, then relinquish all control. Let her go.

Don't let her eat cake. Which is what she is doing. No she doesn't care that she hurts you. She is selfish, like all cheaters. Her goal is for you to treat her nice AND for the AP to treat her nice. Attention from two lovers!

You keep thinking like a committed monogamist, but she isn't one right now. She has no boundaries, and is blaming you for having some.

Fuck that noise. Stop being nice. Stop it. She doesn't deserve you to be nice. She is the cheater. You are the betrayed. Don't let her play some stupid blameshifting game where you are equally responsible. Call her out on her victim blaming bullshit. Say "BULLSHIT!"

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 4:47 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

duplicate

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 4:47 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

Allucard, I am very sorry you find yourself here and are hurting so much right now. I think it’s really important for you to separate some things in your mind. Please don’t be distracted by your broken promise to trust her because she broke her promise by failing to be trustworthy. I think the most important thing for you to realize right now is that you are not dealing with an honest authentic truthful faithful partner that you can trust. You are being manipulated, lied to and gaslit.

I too spent a year getting yelled at for finding out more information and was told everything would be fine in our marriage if I would just stop looking because everything was over and he was completely committed to our reconciliation. You can guess what was actually happening can’t you? They took the affair underground and continued to deceive me. It broke my heart and my trust.

Please don’t allow yourself to get caught up in her accusations, deflections, anger, or any other immature or unhealthy response to your simple statement of fact that she is not faithful or a person you can trust and is not a person you can continue to be in a long-term relationship with. Honesty is the very first ingredient to successful reconciliation and you don’t have it. Trusting your gut that there was more while you are being lied to that there wasn’t, and confirming what you suspected and being correct is not cause for guilt or apology on your part.

I wouldn’t bother telling her exactly what you know or how you know just that you know and ask her to please leave and stop hurting you. Make her go stay with a friend but get her out of your home so that you can start pulling knives out of your heart and stop bleeding all over your life and take care of yourself because she is not taking care of you. Good luck to you.

Allucard, I am very sorry you find yourself here and are hurting so much right now. I think it’s really important for you to separate some things in your mind. Please don’t be distracted by your broken promise to trust her because she broke her promise by failing to be trustworthy. I think the most important thing for you to realize right now is that you are not dealing with an honest authentic truthful faithful partner that you can trust. You are being manipulated, lied to and gaslit.

I too spent a year getting yelled at for finding out more information and was told everything would be fine in our marriage if I would just stop looking because everything was over and he was completely committed to our reconciliation. You can guess what was actually happening can’t you? They took the affair underground and continued to deceive me. It broke my heart and my trust.

Please don’t allow yourself to get caught up in her accusations, deflections, anger, or any other immature or unhealthy response to your simple statement of fact that she is not faithful or a person you can trust and is not a person you can continue to be in a long-term relationship with. Honesty is the very first ingredient to successful reconciliation and you don’t have it. Trusting your gut that there was more while you are being lied to that there wasn’t, and confirming what you suspected and being correct is not cause for guilt or apology on your part.

I wouldn’t bother telling her exactly what you know or how you know just that you know and ask her to please leave and stop hurting you. Make her go stay with a friend but get her out of your home so that you can start pulling knives out of your heart and stop bleeding all over your life and take care of yourself because she is not taking care of you. Good luck to you.

Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective.

I am hurting so much, it's unbearable. And even in the midst of all this pain, I'm thinking about how much she will suffer when I tell her that I'm leaving. It's crazy.

At this point, that's the only thing left to do.

The lease is in her name. I think it's better if I leave. I can pack my things, go stay with friends, temporarily rent a house somewhere, and perhaps go spend the summer with my family in my country.

Even now I'm hoping that somehow she would understand, wake up, admit. I just don't understand. I never will.

[This message edited by alucard at 5:07 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

Even now I’m thinking that perhaps is not that bad, it’s just a small relapse.

Bullshiit, correct?

She has lo respect for me or for our marriage.

She only thinks about her drama with the toxic friend and the AP.

Zero care of mention of me, my feelings

Yes, that's bullshit. Stop doing that to yourself. She is like a giddy girl doing plan A/plan B strategy and running on a con on you. It's sickening. Put a stop to it as quickly as possible.

I'm deciding if another attempt at explaining to her that honesty is the cornerstone of the marriage that I want

Why? Why should you have to explain that to her? Listen to what TIF said. Your headspace is that of a committed monogamist. She passed into entirely different territory some time ago.

You're dealing with someone who believes they are several steps ahead of you because she's operating in a different moral universe. Get that if nothing else.

She has a different worldview and this is very important. Something in her worldview -- the fundamental life philosophy she created as a younger person and has been walking around with as a sort of set of algorithms for how to act in life -- allows for her to have an "if/then" conditional approach to monogamy.

She's "monogamish" to use the popular term, and completely willing to throw you under the bus. She's also completely willing to gaslight and manipulate you for her own ends.

Stop assuming she has your best interests at heart.

When people show you who they are, believe them.

You're still thinking in terms of if you can just get her see reason, she'll turn a corner and become a better person.

That isn't how this works.

And even in the midst of all this pain, I'm thinking about how much she will suffer when I tell her that I'm leaving. It's crazy.

Again, you are projecting onto her your own moral framework. But it's very clear she's operating under a completely different set of rules. Please don't assume "she will suffer" -- yes, she may suffer in the sense that a child who has had their hand caught in the cookie jar suffers regret and a wounded ego. But don't assume "she will suffer" the loss of your marriage.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:17 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

If possible, I'd like to give my perspective on this as someone who cheated.

She will fight over her privacy.

She will tell me that I've broken her trust.

she will tell me that I've crossed her boundaries and that what she does is private.

This is grade-A bullshit. Sorry. My wife has all my social media passwords. Full access to my phone and any phone/device I get from work (I'm a programmer so I have several devices for deployment). And I'd be quite happy to supply her if she ever wanted with a GPS location at any given time and a full history of my day. I knew/know that trust can only be rebuilt if I am fully transparent - but this realization has to come from your wife, if not then it shows she does not understand the consequences of her actions.

It's alright to ask for boundaries from your partner when they've destroyed your life. The minimum she should do (and again, needs to come from her) is full transparency, drop her toxic friend and cut her affair partner out of your lives.

She will tell me that I am a controlling abuser and that I will never change.

Maybe. Maybe not. But that has very little to do with her choice to cheat.

Then I discovered she was still in contact with the AP. Big fight, she begs me for another chance. I say OK

Then a second time.

Then a third time.

Sometimes it's not easy to untangle ourselves from the emotional bonds we've created in self-abuse.

There's no point in going to marriage counselling when you don't have a marriage. And you don't. Not at the moment. You need space to think and to heal and your wife needs to go to therapy. What she did is fucked up on so many levels it's impossible for her to be a safe partner or a decent human being without professional help. I would argue that you should seek counselling as well, you've gone through trauma and there's no shame in asking for help.

In the end if she doesn't want to be a better person than there's nothing you or anyone can do. And even if she does all those things - there's never a guarantee that you can overcome the infidelity and lies. She should still do all those things anyway because the end result of therapy shouldn't be your marriage, it should be a healthy person.

{I guess she has a massive sense of entitlement; or simply her feelings for this man obscure everything we have, are and have had

If my evaluation of my WW is at all an insight, I think its entitlement. If you peel back feelings, reasons, excuses, all the waffling and game playing the real cause is entitlement. Everything you have relayed mirrors the same entitlement my WW had exhibited.

Calling you abusive for being withdrawn and controlling for wanting to know post A how she is comporting herself is indeed typical DARVO. As many have experienced, as you experienced, I thought I was in R. But all the signs were there, including the persistent claim that my questions were abuse, yet her actions were all justified responses. It’s DARVO and I’m sorry your R isn’t going as you hoped, but I’m painfully learning that there is no R as long as a wayward still feels entitled. Selfishness will sabotage everything, it’ll underline all the kind words, bonding, and even the voluntary admissions become toxic. I feel for you, I understand, and don’t presume to advise you.