SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If I'm not wrong, in one of your recent posts, you commented about your daughter having recently experienced a sexual assault and how it resulted in your eyes being opened. First off, I'm so sorry. Secondly, I wonder how this experience is colouring your current perception of your wife's affair.

My daughter was sexually assaulted a number of years ago. Thanks for your condolences. I don’t think it has direct cross over on how I see things about my wife. Honestly, Jesus had a lot to say about being really careful of thinking oneself too righteous and a wrongdoer too lowly. That stuff influences me a lot.

She was selfless to the point of self destruction. Feeding the kids first even though she was famished and that made her miserable and that made everyone else miserable. And then I think she might have just hit her limit and gone off the deep end.

Inky I think there's probably a lot of truth to this and I think this probably is a surface cause/reason for a lot of 'mid life crises' kinds of affairs. Still not an excuse or justification though.

I like that 'selfless to the point of self destruction' bit because damn if that's not the truth too. We always say around here that 'you can't pour from an empty cup' and I think a LOT of women (just speaking for my own self/gender here) definitely give give give to the point where they are emotionally and mentally depleted. Lord knows I did with my xwh. I think that would be a really good starting point for her in IC (which she should get into if she isn't already).

Unhinged, what do you see me bargaining for? I typically think of that as "God/universe, fix this problem and I’ll never masterbate again" or something. Can you help me understand what you mean, please?

I read a really good article recently about betrayal trauma. You know how you have the five stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance), yeah? Well this article also adds two additional stages with betrayal trauma and those are shock and obsession. And now that I'm thinking on it you might be in a bargaining/obsession mix...

Shock - obvs is when you first find out OR when you get new details.

Denial - "It’s common to move between denial and shock often during the beginning stages. Denial follows shock easily because it’s often hard for your brain to comprehend and grasp what has happened. And often the greater the shock and surprise, the harder it is to grasp the reality of what has occurred: that your partner has shattered your trust and broken their promises.

Many struggle with the reality that this is now their life. In our attempts and desires to make it all go away, we can fall into patterns that end up rejecting the reality of the betrayal."

Obsession - "You spend large amounts of time thinking, analyzing, and spinning with all of the details of your spouse's actions. You are caught in a cyclone of painful details and frenzied analyzations concerning yourself, your partner, and the relationship you have together."
I think a LOT of BS's kinda spin their wheels in this stage, I know I did!

Anger - "When the anger stage comes, the anger may or may not be directed at your loved one. It may be toward friends, family, yourself, God, children, co-workers, other drivers, or any other person who crosses your path."
Like a posom perhaps?

Bargaining - "Bargaining with betrayal is less cut and dry [than bargaining with a death]. We can become lost in a maze of "If only…" or "What if…" statements. We want life returned to what is was; we want our loved one restored. We may even bargain with the pain. We will do anything not to feel the pain of this loss. We remain in the past, trying to negotiate our way out of the hurt."
This is my read here Ink. You're trying to find some mitigation for the choices she made that make them more mentally palatable for you (and I am in no way criticizing you here - I did this too and I think a LOT of BS's do). If she was preyed on by an "evil om", then she *really* had no choice. If she was "targeted by a serial cheater", then it's not really her *fault*. It aligns with YOUR image of who she is and makes it easier to get your head wrapped around this huge unruly lump of excrement that is infidelity.

Depression - Pretty self-explanatory.

Acceptance - I like how the article framed this.
"Acceptance is often confused with the notion of being "all right" or "OK" with what has happened. This is not the case.
It is recognizing that this new reality is now our reality.
It’s not wishing life was back how it was or living in fantasies of the future.
It is living in the here and now, accepting the past has forever changed and we must readjust. Instead of focusing on restoring what was lost, we understand that we can never replace what was lost.
We create a new future, one that is led by our choices to heal and move forward.
We are not accepting our spouse’s infidelity. We accept that it happened. There’s a major difference in that."
Full disclosure I'm 4.5 years out and I still am not all the way here either. Way closer than I was back then though!

I think a LOT of women (just speaking for my own self/gender here) definitely give give give to the point where they are emotionally and mentally depleted.

Ellie you have to be really careful about these gender stereotypes around here, people get their undies in a bunch

Ink, my husband and a guy worked for the same company. He often came over to visit. After a while he came when my husband was working. Ding dong me was just being the nice hostess and enjoyed his company until on day….that day I was, as usual, herding three very young children around and was sort of hoping he would leave. It was a beautiful Spring day and I wanted the kids outside. Anyway, in my innocence I ask what we could do today. He said, "I think you and I should go in that bedroom and shut the door". I never acknowledge what he said and told him we were all going swimming at the neighborhood pool. I invited as many neighbors as I could. I never saw him again. I told my husband that night.
There is no excuse for cheating. That guy was better looking and smooth as silk. Never held a candle to my husband, who cheated on me. Life’s little ironies.

Were I your wife, I'd encourage all talk of my affair that made it sound like a takedown of a little prey animal on the African plains by a dick-swinging predator. And then I'd pretend to take responsibility for it "OMG, husband, I'm too strong a woman to have been deceived! I'm taking back my power, this was all my fault, no matter how much that dick swinging predator tricked me, I should have been stronger!" and sit back and wait for you to admire my attempts at faking power as it would intensify your belief that I was a victim 'trying to be strong'. Your wife is far from naive, she's actually very clever to have you at this point.

This. It’s actually very shrewd. You naturally have anger at the AP. She sees this anger and gets on board, "You’re right, he was a jerk who tricked me. I just wanted to be friends and I trusted him…." You respond well and now all of a sudden you’re on the same side. It’s the two of you against the AP and the best part is, the focus is off her.

Now all she has to do is graduate from highschool, promise not to blow her "friends" anymore, and things will be back to normal. Her reputation in tact.

InkHulk, I started following your story during your thread on your wife’s (impressive) defensiveness. You haven’t spent much time on this thread talking about the actual things that this man did to manipulate her, but what you have written suggests to me that she can more than hold her own in this arena.

She hasn’t directed any of this. If I sensed the slightest hint of that shrewdness, I’d be gray rocking her. You guys are reaching on that. One of my less favorite traits on this site.

In fairness, you aren’t actually sharing much (or anything) about why you’ve determined she was manipulated, so we’re imputing based on the typical Cheater’s Handbook. As many people have pointed out, its not an uncommon claim from WWs or BHs.

Hadn't detected the slightest bit of shrewdness from your WW?????

Your WW betrayed you FOR 3 YEARS. She was able to live another life behind yours AND your kids back all that time, without you suspecting anything. I think your WW was one helluva liar. She snookered you and your family pretty good. She conspired to do this to you with OM, and maybe even OM's W was in on this too.

Friend, you need to stop Rugsweeping!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:56 AM, Friday, February 17th]

I’m going to start taking a shot everytime someone tells me to stop rug-sweeping.

Hadn't detected the slightest bit of shrewdness from your WW?????

Your WW betrayed you FOR 3 YEARS.

She took advantage of my trust. You don’t think I’m on the look out now?

#wontbefooledagain

[This message edited by InkHulk at 1:08 AM, Friday, February 17th]

You ARE rugsweeping though. You are making her into a martyr when she clearly is not in any sense of the word.

From your post, Page 9, previous page:

You all do have me wrestling with just how selfish of a person is my wife. You have gotten to me, you have influenced me. I think she is a strange kind of selfish. She was selfless to the point of self destruction. Feeding the kids first even though she was famished and that made her miserable and that made everyone else miserable. And then I think she might have just hit her limit and gone off the deep end.

If I am understanding correctly: You also made a very good living, and allowed her to take on passion projects that hardly brought any income into the household. She had all this time and money as essentially a SAHM. And yet she still complained. That isn't "selfless to the point of self-destruction".

InkHulk, you realize that there are plenty of women who are working, out of necessity to keep their families fed and a roof over their heads--some even the main breadwinners for their family too AND the ones who do the bulk of the domestic chores too--who never cheated. EVEN ON THE WAYWARD SIDE here, there are women on there who both a) have husbands who were abusive and/or not even working, and b) who are much further along to "getting it" than your WW is.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:24 AM, Friday, February 17th]

The truth is she did it because she wanted to do it...over and over. She loved what was happening so much that you, your family, your marriage did not matter as much as this incredible experience. That is the cold hard truth. Anything else is just rationalizing. She is not a victim.

Had it been one time, perhaps these discussions are more valuable. If it was a drunken ONS, ok.

In fairness, you aren’t actually sharing much (or anything) about why you’ve determined she was manipulated, so we’re imputing based on the typical Cheater’s Handbook. As many people have pointed out, its not an uncommon claim from WWs or BHs.

That’s fair. The manipulation I know of isn’t off the charts stuff. She started early saying she was happily married, and he said he was too. Later on he comes out with OBS doesn’t love him, dead marriage. Neither of them was true (pretty sure) but both were strategically lied to first make her comfortable and then second to elicit sympathy. Both of these are stereotypes on the other forum. I also had google searched "how to seduce a married woman" to see if anyone would publish such a thing, and what do you think I found? A step by step manual that was so close to the story she told me it was unsettling.

So are any of these Jedi mind trick things? No. But I’m still convinced he came around with intent and skill. And she should have been able to fend that shit off and she completely failed me.

If you want to seduce married person (man or woman), just follow the affair protection measures of "Not Just Friends" in reverse.

-Spent a lot of time with them
-Create an emotional bond
-Speak about personal and intimate matters
-Make them a priority
-Say how much better you would be for them than their SO
-Escalate physical touch

It's not rocket science.

The truth is she did it because she wanted to do it...over and over.

And drug addicts get high over and over because they like it. And because they are addicted.

Ok Ink. You're right. She's a victim. Enjoy.

Ok Ink. You're right. She's a victim. Enjoy.

Sorry for the interruption. We can get back to the regularly scheduled outrage.

But I’m still convinced he came around with intent and skill. And she should have been able to fend that shit off and she completely failed me.

So what? Sooooo? He was skilled and poetic and every woman's dream man I'm sure (she said, sarcastically).

Ink, you're giving the ap an awful lot of credit when to any non-cheating woman (like all the BW's on this thread) he looks like exactly what he is, which is an opportunistic, gross, skeevy fucking LOSER. I can see that clearly from way over here. Why can't you? Why do you want to continue to believe he's some magical predatory sex god that smooth talked his way into your wife's undies? Cus he's totally not.

The point isn't how 'skilled' he was (*cough*NOT*cough*). What he is or was, what his intentions were or not... that really does not matter. Unless your ww starts digging into why she fell for his bullshit and gave herself permission to have an affair, what's to stop her falling for the next don Juan that comes around? If she doesn't know why she did it, then she can't make the changes she needs to to prevent it in the future.

It isn't about her being 'able' to. She chose NOT to. She could have chosen at any point to stop, but she didn't. What he said is irrelevant when stacked against her choice and the fact that she consciously and willingly let you live in a lie for three years.

Alright Ellie and everyone, you are roping me back to the ground some. Writing out what I see as his manipulations was eye opening. It isn’t that bad. Shitty, but not that bad. Not enough to explain breaking marriage vows and an existing love relationship with me. So back to that question of did you ever love me…

Guys, I fucking hate this. It’s so bad. So fucking bad. We had a fight the other night and I ended up going and talking to my 15 year old son who I knew heard me. He asked to pray for me, he asked me to be praying, and he thanked me for trying to fix our family, he said he knew I could have just walked away. And then we just cried together. I’m pretty broke, bargaining per Ellie’s description seems about right. My mind is just focused on this. I used to be amazing at my job, now that mental energy is on this stuff.

She took advantage of my trust.

Just as AP took advantage of her trust.

I’m still convinced he came around with intent and skill.

She took advantage of your trust, with intent..and was able to hide a 3 year affair from you..that took skill.

She doesn't sound naive at all,when you look at the entire picture.