SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So you both cheat. Now, you've decided to rugsweep,and put it all behind you, so no one really works on themselves. And she becomes physically abusive, but thats ok because she fucked you afterwards.

You're putting a bandaid over a festering wound. Your marriage is far from reconciled. Neither of you are healthy individuals.

And,in no way, should either of you have contact with OW.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:07 AM, November 11th (Monday)]

Hellfire, there has been no contact with the OM do you mean the OW.

There has been no rugsweeping, as i said it was very much abridged, the convo lasted more that four hours and included things such as my (unrecognised up till now) need to compete with my dad. Also although we had been having a regular sex life up until my discovery of her A she had kept it fairly vanilla even though she was aware of my slut/whore in the bedroom desire because of resentment.

The reason I have left a lot out of my post is because it started to read like soft porn and would have ended up far to long.

We know we have a long way to go, as for the thing with Claire that is Julies decision to make not mine, i may find Thursdays club meeting very uncomfortable maybe i deserve it but i will not gainsay my wife.

I get it is your wife’s choice to befriend OW, but don’t you also get to stick up for your wife and show her you don’t think it is a good idea? Someone who is unapologetic about sleeping w a married man - is that the kind of values you want to further steep in socially?

It is rugsweeping if nobody is dealing w how they got there and how they will develop new tools to deal with the feeling of entitlement that comes from resentment and marital strife. I don’t see growth here...just the beginning of reconnection.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 10:23 AM, November 11th (Monday)]

JSL, it is my wifes choice she knows I am not comfertable with it but it is her choice to make, she has already told me she resents me making choices for her and I dont intend to start again.

We both know we have a lot more to explore but there is only so much we can do in three days away, we will continue this at home now.

You’re twisting it.

You make healthy choices for yourself right now. Not her. Not OM, OW. Yourself.

Healthy is NC w either AP.

You’re on a slippery slope here. Claire and Julie running on the side of the road. Claire pushes past Julie and pushes her down the cliff ‘on accident’. Maybe I watch a bit too much law and order over here but that vindictive shit can be so real. Just a short time after my A discovery wasa local story about an affluent couple living in the high end of the city and the BS snuck into the APs house, waited for her, then murdered her and herself. The H found them both.

I’m not saying anyone in your situation is going to get murdered but I am not NOT saying it either but sounds like you want stoke the fire despite the risk of getting burned.

Now that I’m aware of how an A can be like an out of body experience, it makes the understanding of people completely losing their shit very realistic. I very much contemplated killing my self post A. While I wasn’t planning on killing another person, the idea of killing myself was real and not far off. Getting the right help for myself was important. I don’t think this running club is the right help for either of you.

I don’t know why the fuck Julie would apologize to Claire for realizing Claire’s slut vibe and backing off. YOU SHOUKD HAVE TOO. that was a huge eff up and a sign of your wayward ways within yourself before you even pulled your pants down. Then Claire fucks you, knowing Julie. That is 2 wrongs not making anything right.

Buy two treadmills and buy/build a gym in your big house with all the money. Run on a treadmill side by side with your wife. Neither if you can be trusted right now. Your bond isn’t back yet. You’re not healed. You’re recovering. You have not started a new marriage. You’re no where near reconciling. You’re playing the exact same game with new fire. You will get burned again.

We know we have a long way to go...

I agree completely. You and your wayward wife have much work ahead. I suggest you develop a long term plan to become who and what you wish to be.

She needs to do the same.

Merely "thrusting thy sword" upon another wayward soul may ameliorate the emasculation but does little to foster growth and healing.

This is taking a turn into the Twilight Zone.

Buzzy - I wish you, Julie, Claire, the rest of the running club and who knows who else the very best.

...it is my wifes choice she knows I am not comfertable with it but it is her choice to make, she has already told me she resents me making choices for her and I dont intend to start again.

You guys would do well to take this back to the drawing board. Look at what you said.. "I'm not comfortable...". Look at what she said.. "resents me making choices". What you're seeing there is the lack of harmony in decision-making. There are some choices we make for ourselves and some we make together as a couple. This one effects the health of your marriage so it's a couple's decision. In those, you just keep working the problem until you're BOTH satisfied with the result.

You're not wrong to feel uncomfortable with your wife's decision to invite your AP back into your lives. This is a boundary issue, and as you and your wife grow into recovery, you'll find yourselves much more aware of people with ineffectual boundaries. These people are toxic to your unity and should be put out of your lives. At first, you might not know exactly what's putting you off about them, but if you apply "boundaries" to the question, it will usually reveal the problem.

Your AP has no more boundaries than your WW's AP did. That's likely to raise the hairs on the back of any BS's neck because if she's willing to allow your AP back into lives, what's stopping her from having equally warm and forgiving feelings for her own AP?

I suspect this decision stems from your WW wanting to please you and keep your running club intact for you. But you guys are still new in recovery, so take some advice... go back and revisit this decision. Do it together. Talk about appropriate boundaries and the deleterious effects of toxic people. Shirley Glass, in her book Not Just Friends, had the most succinct visual for good matrimonial boundaries that I've ever seen... "walls and windows". In a nutshell, you open a big window to your mate and put up tall, imposing walls against interlopers.

Your AP is an interloper. The fact that you invited her doesn't mitigate her involvement. It's a reflection of her own poor boundaries that she got involved with a married man. And you KNOW those boundaries were already nonexistent because your WW had already got a bead on her.

In a marriage without previous infidelity in play, there's less internal insecurity in both partners. One might put these issues aside as "no big deal" or "I trust my partner". But in a post-infidelity marriage, we have to attune to our partner's underlying anxiety. IME, the innocent trust we once had never returns. This is not an insurmountable issue, of course. Otherwise, people would never reconcile. But it's the New Normal. Attunement to underlying insecurities is crucial. Otherwise anxiety grows and depression sets in. So it's not just about the interlopers lack of appropriate boundaries. It's now about the internal reaction to that threat which can take on a life of its own.

Long post made short, there are REASONS that people are telling you to put your AP out of your lives, and it's not just because we want to punish APs.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 12:01 PM, November 11th (Monday)]

My personal experience bears so little resemblance to what you describe that any attempt at advice would be useless. For both your sakes, I hope you're just very different from me and can make this plan work out for you.

Ok, I have taken on board all your advice, when Julie returned from her yoga class last night we had a discussion and I said as we are starting a "new" relationship and after much talking we have agreed on the following.

1) I will quit the running club and we will both join a new club.

2) We will both join a new gym.

3) Neither of us will contact Claire.

I must admit I did feel some resentment that her A was the original cause of all this crap but it passed.

👏🏻 I think that all makes a lot more sense. You two sound like you are really communicating well.

Resentment - sounds normal. Keep the dialogue going. I think it is beautiful you will have a shared hobby (Esp away from the din of the AP).

Wishing you both the best.

I think those are good decisions. I don't remember if you guys are in MC or not, but do try to read through a copy of Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and What Makes Love Last by John Gottman. Both those titles will help you in your recovery.

I will quit the running club and we will both join a new club.

This is called a win/win and it’s what you both should be looking for. Especially in a large metropolis, to treat that club as something sacrosanct was fraught with peril. Your WW is eager to compensate but this is the ideal solution.

I must admit I did feel some resentment that her A was the original cause of all this crap but it passed.

I doubt this will be the only time you feel that. Just get to understanding how that resentment effects you and acknowledge that you CAN CONTROL your thoughts, and you will discover a better future where you’re less governed by emotion. It’s got to be a tricky balance dealing with the RA issue, just remember your side of it will need to be dealt with at some point also. The best advice is in Linda MacDonald, which highlights that they need to be addressed SEPARATELY- Bringing the two into the picture simultaneously will only lead to comparing scars, which will stunt forward progress.

Best of luck, I’m really glad to see what looks like swift progress for the 2 of you!

My husbands affair ripped me apart. Why would I do that to the man I still loved,?

I can oly speak for myself but revenge and payback comes to mind.

Sounds like a ton of blameshifting onto you why she cheated. If you are okay with that, then best of luck with that.

All I heard is it is everyone else's fault I don't know me, took no ownership in my life, have no backbone to say no and pave my own road to finding a healthy me, and have no self confidence because I was a kept woman who never got a chance to grow up and spread my wings. She is a grown woman blaming you for her choices. She has done a number in the gaslighting setting. It isn't anyone elses fault she never grew up or was so submissive. Those choices are on her.

Oh, and it is okay for you to be cruel in the name of your ego and pride. That is all I just read in response.

Cleanslate. Reset. Promise to never do this again. Lets have fun. We both got our pound of flesh for holding resentments based on our own issues and other people not meeting or filling them, the issues we unrealistically set in others because we are not enough for ourselves. Instead of focusing on how you both fail yourselves.

Yeah, rugsweeping.

I can oly speak for myself but revenge and payback comes to mind.

You both have spoken about what you expected each other to do and react and behave like when faced with an obstacle. None of which have ever been good and healthy.

If you are good with the blameshifting then think this way. How much of her cheating had to do with your pride and ego? Are you good with her blaming your pride and ego to driving her to have an affair?

You’ll wade in resentment for a while longer. Be aware of it. Don’t rush it off. Ask if it’s rational. Is it rational to feel that way? Yes. It is! Your wife had an A!!!! Her why’s are her why’s. You had no choice in that! That shattered you, as it should have. That was the last day of your old marriage. I suspect the resentment may be a bit if mourning too. That is also rational. They may even intertwine. Recognize these feelings. Express them to Julie.

Buzzy- hey Julie, in an effort to be more communicative and to maintain a healthy relationship, I’m feeling some things that I want you to know about. I’m not trying to start an argument or make you feel badly. I want you to know where my head is at is all. I’ve noticed I’ve been feeling some waning resentment. I tried to figure out why I was feeling that way. I think I realized I’m mourning the loss of our old marriage, even though I’m really looking forward to our new marriage.

Just recognizing this together can be powerful. Keep talking either way, and dont rugsweep. Be there for each other.

[This message edited by FoenixRising at 6:09 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)]

I must admit I did feel some resentment that her A was the original cause of all this crap but it passed.

Resentment that her A was the original cause of you guys being in so much pain? Of your marriage as you know it being torn apart? That makes sense - the resentment might return, and it's something you'll have to struggle through. It's not fair to you that this was brought on you. Is your wife able to listen to you and be supportive of you when you're feeling like this? Is she understanding of the pain she caused you? How does she express her understanding and support?

I got something slightly different from the conversation you said you two had - I didn't get her using what she told you to justify her A. I got a sense that she was telling you what she told herself (the excuses she made) that allowed her to cross those boundaries and have an A. She doesn't believe now that those things excuse her A, right? It doesn't sound like she does - it sounds like she was describing her thought process at the time. Or is that wrong? What's your sense of it, Buzzy? Is she able to recognize that no matter what challenges you two had beforehand, she made everything worse with her A? Those beforehand issues must be dealt with separately - it's something you two can work on together, but they must NOT be connected to her A as an excuse or a deflection. She must own her choices separately of those things. Do you get the sense she's doing that?

I must admit I did feel some resentment that her A was the original cause of all this crap but it passed.

Is this resentment that you two had to leave your running club? If that's the case, I would say your resentment is misplaced. The whole thing with the running club is all on you. I'm sorry to be harsh - but you chose to sleep with someone from your running club. That was a choice you made. You can say that you wouldn't have done it if she hadn't cheated first... But then again, you could have chosen to do something else in the wake of her bad choices. Even if you still chose to cheat (which I don't agree with, but again, that was your choice), you could have chosen someone you would never see again, instead of someone you would keep seeing every week. Your own choices have consequences too. Please own those.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 7:49 PM, November 12th (Tuesday)]

I saw something very different in Julie's justifications, which I think is why hikingout is so skeptical of your story. Your W's script amounts to, "Buzzy, I only cheated on you because you were so rich and athletic. I'm ready to fix it by apologizing to the woman who fucked you for my suspicion that she wanted to fuck you. We'll kiss and make up like grownups do. Now, I'll open my robe and fade to black to avoid triggering the good people of SI with soft porn." It reads like Dear Penthouse without the sex, a masturbatory fantasy.

Elsewhere, we see you expounding on how gorgeous your AP was, how hot and romantic your A was, and how bittersweet and maudlin you get about her when left alone to ruminate. There's innuendo between the lines of Claire's words to you on the plane ("you have decisions to make") and a reference to never knowing if it would have worked out long term. The implication seems to be that you discussed the possibility of continuing to see each other in some capacity after Seville. Did you have that conversation? If so, does Julie know this? Did the "best sex ever" issue arise?

Once again, your account paints the picture that you are the prize for whom these women are competing. I've yet to see anything much about why you are staying with your wife. We have a single statement that what you did to her is worse than what she did to you. Why and how? It reads like you're realizing that you're actually in over your head with Claire, now that that door is finally closing.

You posted on the wayward forum here, and it's because you're a wayward. BS do not start posts here from a BS perspective. We've established that revenge was your motivation, but you have a lot of work to do on where you have taken things over the last year. Wayward work. Let's talk some about that, the part where you created a victim rather than where you became one.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:00 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)]