SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Inkarnit,

Not advice, but an observation:

She did choose me tonight without me having to say anything.

She has chosen me all week.

- Are you happy that your WW did not chose her APs over you (for this week)?

- Are you comfortable in showing the APs that you are willing to share your WIFE with them?

- Will the couple share the W with you?

- Would your WW be okay with this?

- Are you comfortable with being an option in your M?

I don't know about you, but I do not tolerate being an 'option' in my M. I chose my W, and my W chose me when we got married, and there was nothing in the vows about having 'options'....

OP was posting a lot in the beginning, and now it's been a couple of days. I hope we haven't lost him.

inkarnit, please understand, no one here is judging you. They want what is best for YOU, not to protect your M. Everyone is trying to help you HEAL. It won't be easy. Remember, the folks here have been where you are. If you have read other stories, you will find a LOT of similarities to your story. None are exactly the same. But you will receive a lot of good information. Good luck.

I know you're hurting, and you're not happy with a lot of what has been said here. Please understand that everything said is meant with care. You want so badly to hold onto your marriage, which I and most others highly appreciate, but the lack of self-care is what is tough to read. I was just like you in that I was so hurt, I thought if "I let him be" then he'd choose me. I played the pick-me dance for 1.5 years...I had very low self-esteem at the time. I deserved so much better than that, and you do too.

"I'm being too pushy" according to her. She is not the victim, you are. You have EVERY right to push for answers.

You stated you can forgive if the "AP is destroyed." He is not the issue. He did not vow to be totally committed to you. Is he scum? Yes! But the anger needs to be 1000000% towards your WAYWARD wife. SHE violated your trust, your vows your commitment to one another. SHE is the problem.

But as I'm not threatening an immediate divorce, if she were to do it, she better practice safe sex

No one expects you to threaten her with immediate divorce, but by saying the above you are essentially allowing the affair to continue. This site is for getting OUT of infidelity, not putting up with it until she figures herself out. YOU call the shots in this, and you HAVE to stop her affair, or take steps to tell her you will NOT accept it.

That being said, if you are ok with an open marriage, your "rules" definitely allow for this.

[This message edited by newlife03 at 12:10 PM, March 8th (Monday)]

I think we may have dropped too many 2x4 from orbit on him...

inkarnit, we know this whole thing is extremely painful, and you'd just like it to end.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. When I first confronted my WW, she walked out of the house and drove off. She was "confused" and "didn't know what she wanted". I thought my M was over. It hurt so bad. She came back that same night, and I confronted her again and I got 90% of what I asked for (thanks to many members here, those demands were solid and my counterpoints prepared). I really should have made sure it was 100% but that's a story for another time. We made agreements. She walked some of them back. I walked some of them back. But at the center of it, you have to not lose sight that the underlying problem is not you or the M, it is her.

The point I'm trying to make here, is that you are just now getting on the world's shittiest roller coaster. Your normal conflict resolution and coping mechanisms aren't going to work here. Infidelity is a whole other beast and not one that can be solved like a disagreement over maldistributed chores or a hobby that is taking too much time. It's much closer to an addiction, and not something that you can treat as a normal and healthy emotional choice by your WW to engage in that you simply have a different view on.

Everyone here is trying to help you. So just know that we have been where you have been.

Inkarnit:

I hope you are still reading here. Let me say that tough love is NOT the way to get through to many people. If you are one of those, you have my total support and understanding. Those who dole it out and respond to it must not understand how damaging it is to some people. It is the worst way to approach them.

Please stay on SI and post when you feel up to it. From my perspective, you need and deserve support, understanding and the space to get your footing. Note, I am not trying to start a big back and forth with the SI members who come at newbies guns blazing. I am simply giving a different perspective.

Inkarnit, your situation is truly mind-bending. You have done an amazing job at painting the picture of the crazy situation you are in. Plus, you get to still love and hold your wife in high regard in the respects that make sense to you. Flat out. You do. It's clear that the fact that she historically has been intelligent and loving makes this nuttiness all the more painful makes sense.

All of us, regardless of our "style" of giving advice, have been to crazy town. It's awful. Infidelity is the subject of songs, movies, poems and books because it is deep deep pain.

Please update us. Or at least, keep reading.

You have support here for sure. And empathy and compassion.

Please understand that everything said is meant with care.

That's true, but ....

Some of the advice you get is 'Do this NOW!' I can't place much weight on one-size-fits-all approaches. Some of the advice is based on responding to what someone thinks is in your WS's mind. I can't imagine how anyone thinks they know what's in the minds of someone they know so little about.

Some of the advice you get is aimed at helping you figure out how you want to respond to being betrayed. Other advice is aimed at helping you make your own decisions based on where you are and what you want. This advice is harder to put into practice, but it promises to be more rewarding than one-size-fits-all.

First off i think the gentler voices here are certainly the saner voices - no doubt . However the idea of normalizing the Op point of view is a bridge too far for me personally , and i would like to explain why.

While one parent is off being brainwashed through sex and the other is handling their own pain in a way that neutralizes all their agency what happens if there is a predator in the mix.?I dont think its a huge stretch to believe that this weird cult might be open to grooming minors .

I think the Op should at least consider that possibility and then read all the advice again.

I stopped reading responses since my last post. I had determined that all the advice I was getting here may be well-meant and designed to make me feel better about myself but was not going to help save my marriage. So I stopped reading these responses. I have still not gone back to read them because, at this point, I'm not really interested.

I came back to say this: my way is working. Every day is better. Without making demands and ultimatums, she has made the right decisions. She gives me constant updates on what she's doing, when, and with whom. Our sex life is much improved and more frequent. We have a weekly State of the Union in which we air grievances and positives from the prior week. I have begun seeing an IC and we are scheduled to see a separate MC for the two of us. Full contact with AP has not yet ceased, but it's moving that direction and she's open about things with me. There has been no physical contact between them since D-Day. They do not see each other anymore. I'm pleased with our progress and each day has been better. We're on the right path. Will it save our marriage in the end? I don't know. Time will tell. But we're making the moves we need to make.

Thank you for caring, but please realize that putting the foot down and giving demands and ultimatums is NOT always the way.

please realize that putting the foot down and giving demands and ultimatums is NOT always the way

Full contact with AP has not yet ceased,

Right. No demands gets you this. Still in infidelity.

And the OBS still possibly in the dark.

I have still not gone back to read them because, at this point, I'm not really interested.

Quite rude. People took the time out of their lives to help you, a man who came here asking for them to do so. And you aren't interested.

Good luck.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:40 PM, March 24th (Wednesday)]

inkarnit,

Just curious about a couple things:

1. Did you ever report the OM to the medical board for unethical behavior? If so, what happened?

2. Did you ever contact the wife of the OM to find out if she knew what was going on? If so, what happened?

3. You state "Full contact with AP has not yet ceased..." but then state "They do not see each other anymore." What does that mean? Is she still receiving medical treatment from the AP? Seeing him at the gym? Other?

Full contact with AP has not yet ceased

She's still in the affair. You have an open marriage.

Keep us posted.

HellFire I just went back and glanced through some. I'm quite pleased to see that not everyone took the same route. I don't think it's rude of me to ignore unhelpful posts and personal attacks.

Are we still in infidelity? I guess. In that she still has conversations with a man that she had an affair with. Sure. But those are few and far between now and again, getting better everyday. If the next day is better than the last and the next week is better than the last then we are moving in the right direction. I don't need to put a time on it.

OBS is not fully in the dark anymore. We did have a situation where I confronted the 3 of them together at my gym.

BlueRaspberry, I did not yet report OM to medical board but I did receive a phone call from his office asking for payment. I told them they could speak directly to the doctor about that as I wouldn't be dealing with his office anymore and that further contact would result in contacting the medical board. To let him know all that and we could proceed however he wanted. I have not heard back.

OBS was present when I walked into the gym to find the 3 of them working out together. She knows something is going on based on my response to that and demands for them to leave. It's not me responsibility to make sure she knows all the details, as she's definitely complicit in trying to steal my wife away. I really don't care what she knows exactly at this point.

By saying full contact hasn't ceased, I mean that she is no longer a patient, they no longer work out together in private, but he is still a member of the gym and she still talks to him on Facebook, though much reduced. The only time they see each other in person is during Saturday morning group classes at the gym.

Eventually, I think full NC will be able to be established. The MC will probably insist on that, too.

It's still early in this whole thing (24 days) and I think the progress I've seen in that period of time is very good. I really have no complaints and feel good about my days. Seeing her gives me butterflies again. I feel like we're dating all over again. I know we're not through this yet. There's still a long ways to go to earn back trust and gain forgiveness. And it might still not happen. But I know that I'm doing everything I can to save my marriage and I know that she still loves me and is trying.

DanielJK, perhaps the "affair" still exists in an emotional way to some degree, but it's definitely on the back slide. I don't consider it to be an open marriage. There's certainly no sex outside the marriage. But yes, NC still needs to eventually be established. I don't need to push at this point in time though.

As for not reading most of the responses...

Come back in 3 months if your WW is still messing around with AP.

The responses will make a lot of sense to you at that point.

ETA: Keep us posted. Trust me that no one here means any ill will toward you. We know the discomfort of infidelity and don't want you to live uncomfortable any more.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 12:58 PM, March 24th (Wednesday)]

I'm glad you are on a path to healing that you feel is working.

Please don't take the next couple of questions as a recommendation for "putting your foot down" or "giving an ultimatum". It is asking you about your comfort level about her having ongoing contact with her AP. They are genuine questions that you should be able to answer for yourself.

Are you comfortable with her being in personal contact with AP right now?

If you are comfortable with it now, why should she ever work toward NC with her AP? What is to prevent her saying something along the lines of, "I've maintained boundaries with him so far, and I've told you the truth. I have shown we can just be friends. Our marriage has gotten better. We communicate more. Our sex is great. I won't ever cheat on you with AP again. I'll tell you about all our contacts, and if he ever makes a pass at me, I'll shut him down. I promise to let you know about it. I just don't want to lose a good friend. We've made so much progress while we have been in contact, I just don't see why it needs to end."?

Are you OK with that arrangement permanently? It's fine if you are. That is your life and your boundary. If you are willing to carry that risk forward, I'm not going to stop you or tell you not to. You are the one that decides if you are comfortable and safe.

I will tell you that in my experience, allowing work related contact only still led to my fWW breaking that NC agreement once, me asking for a divorce, and then her choosing (I didn't force her still) to change jobs to get true NC from her AP. It was extremely corrosive to our marriage and reconciliation attempts to allow ongoing contact. I felt mostly safe, but not completely. I felt a little uncomfortable all the time, but didn't speak up about it until I was very uncomfortable. You may not have such a poor experience. You know your wife and your relationship better than any of us strangers on the internet.

Sending strength and support.

This0is0Fine,

I'm not fully comfortable with her current level of contact, no. I still question what might be said or talked about. She knows I expect NC to occur at some point. But I don't think I need to make that demand right now while things are moving in the right direction. There were a lot of faults I had in our marriage and I'm aware of them now and working on them myself. She is seeing and noticing that, too. Eventually, and with the help of MC, I think she will realize that she doesn't gain anything from AP. Once I feel like our marriage is strengthened enough, I might revisit making demands. It's not out of the realm of possibility. I just don't see a need to rock the boat right now while we're making so much progress.

DanielJK, I will.

I hope that 3 months from now we've made a lot of headway. That we're in regular MC. That NC has been established. But it might not be there yet. Who knows? I know that where my marriage is right now is actually better than where it was before the affair was discovered. That's a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless.

I recall almost exactly saying something like, "I don't want to punish her for improvements in behavior." I'm not challenging that line of thinking. I'm just relaying to you that my experience was that not rocking the boat ultimately led to me pushing down my own feelings and needs until I couldn't take it anymore.

I'm also not going to challenge the proposition that *portions* of your marriage are better than they have have been. If we use a medical analogy, we can think of infidelity as being pushed off a cliff. You break a bunch of bones, have internal bleeding, and they do a full body scan.

They find you have high blood pressure, an enlarged liver, and growths on your kidneys. They give you treatment for all of these along with your injuries from the fall.

She didn't have to push you off a cliff to get you to do a full body scan. Any residual benefits along these lines should not be assigned to "benefits resulting from an affair".

For your own mental health, it's important for you to disentangle as much as possible infidelity from other marital issues.

Oh for sure! I'm not saying the affair made things better. We made things better. The affair was the catalyst. But it shouldn't have been. We should have done these things on our own. This is the path we should have gone down instead. But she chose to go outside the marriage. That's 100% on her and that will need to be addressed and we will need to see how to avoid this happening again.

...please realize that putting the foot down and giving demands and ultimatums is NOT always the way.

You haven't discovered something new here. Rolling over and capitulating to a complete rugsweeping isn't new, and yeah... you can even find therapists who will sign on with that. It's an available path, albeit a desperate one, and a few BS's end up taking it. That said, healing is hindered because you end up in the one-down position in perpetuity with a cheater who's had no incentive to remediate their poor character and who can't be bothered to understand the pain they've caused.

Damned near anybody can save their marriage if they're willing to live like a hostage in it. Most people want more for themselves.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 1:40 PM, March 24th (Wednesday)]