SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Because any woman not into threesomes before becoming a wayward, is not into threesomes.

Maybe it’s the possibility of reconciliation, or the shame she carries, but if she offers to watch you fuck another woman in her presence, she is coerced in some way.

And, you fucking another woman, without that ever being a part of your relationship prior to her cheating, now you just fucked another woman and you’re a cheat even if your wife agreed.

Not healthy, not reconciliation.

First off, reconciliation isn't a one way path. People get there in many different way, apart for the SI approved way. Some of them are deemed unhealthy, but if the goal is reconciliation and not divorce, then some folks have to find a different path to reach it.

Plus, after the affair, the situation of a monogamous marriage has drastically changed. Its only monogamous when and if you choose it to be. You have an open marriage on dday, If the WS is willing, coersion has nothing to do with it even if she wasn't initially into it. No one is forcing her, she can choose divorce, right? I mean that's kind of what she was risking by having the affair. Sorry, if my sympathy is subzero.

I am asking women. Why not reverse the situation. The husband refused a sexual act with the wife but did it with affair partner. The wife asks for the experience and is being rejected, what are the thoughts?

I think a lot of context to these situations is being left out.

Real life example, my BH has a bad day earlier this month. The bad day started with a frustrating experience at work, he cane home angry and it snowballed into him berating me about the A. I understand and accept the verbal onslaught, but then he wanted oral sex and rough intercourse. Did I comply? Yes. I felt compelled to because I’ve hurt and damaged him, and I earned his anger. So I put his needs first. But still, I was dry and the Sahara because I was performing acts on a man who an hour before was screaming profanities at me. It wasn’t sexy and it wasn’t Living and it wasn’t enjoyable.

If your goal is reconciliation, then maybe considering the tone and context of these sexual experiences for both parties would be more conducive to reconciliation. Also, when you’re on SI getting advice, maybe angry vindictive vengeful divorced mad hatters aren’t the best sources for reconcilation advice.

Poppy- what is happening here is a difficult dialogue where uncomfortable truths are being put on the forefront, that may otherwise be left to rot and fester in a BS, unbeknownst to the WS. Gender aside, that’s my stance.

My comments aren’t angry, and being divorced doesn’t have any bearing on my being either an MH or a BS. Don’t throw stones if you live in a glass house, all I’m saying. Do You ever wonder why your husband can’t find it in himself to want to treat you lovingly and kindly before intercourse? Do you wonder what it is that makes his anger tick? Do you question why he Is the way he is?

If these are dealbreakers for you, as is the sex/ anger, you have a complete right to leave as well you know, and I defend that right.... but we should make it a point here to respect each other’s opinions and not try to take shots at one another. Your comment above was aimed at me.

You have an open marriage on dday,

Randy, that is not a fact, that is your opinion. This is not how "open marriages" work. Because one person breaks their own vows doesn't mean that the vows you took are null and void. You still made a vow. The vows on your wedding day were not to be faithful unless your spouse fucks someone else. No, your vow was to be faithful. Period.

This is not how "open marriages" work. Because one person breaks their own vows doesn't mean that the vows you took are null and void. You still made a vow. The vows on your wedding day were not to be faithful unless your spouse fucks someone else. No, your vow was to be faithful. Period.

No, open marriages should be discussed first but when one spouse cheats the marriage is now "open" but the BS just doesn't know. Once the cat is out of the bag and it's discovered the marriage contract is gone. It's broken and the original marriage is over. What happens next is more of a negotiation of the new relationship or divesting and splitting up. If in the negotiation for a new relationship one of the conditions is a new sexual experience and it includes another person then that can either be accepted or denied. If denied it might be a deal breaker for the BS and it leads to a D anyways.

I will not abide by a contract that my WW discarded so easily. That "vow" no longer is valid by either party. It was meaningless anyways. It's your morals and values that will guide you on whatever path you choose after DD.

I would really like an answer to this too! In my mind I will never understand how a WW gave an AP so much, risked everything for him when he's invested nothing and then would refuse doing the same things with their BS who they've just destroyed through their selfish actions.

Count me in, I'd love to see any answer to this too. It's really the fundamental question that we've discussed across half a dozen threads and 100's of posts over the past few months, and, yes, it's really the fundamental question.

I understand having an A. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. I can see that in myself, that I "could" do it, and that there are situations I should avoid to prevent it.

But after that A, denying my W anything I gave to the AP? That I cannot fathom, I simply can't build a scenario in my head where that seems reasonable.

((((Poppy))))) I am sorry. Your BH treated you abusively and you do not need to accept being treated that way. Are you in IC?

Real life example, my BH has a bad day earlier this month. The bad day started with a frustrating experience at work, he cane home angry and it snowballed into him berating me about the A. I understand and accept the verbal onslaught, but then he wanted oral sex and rough intercourse. Did I comply? Yes. I felt compelled to because I’ve hurt and damaged him, and I earned his anger. So I put his needs first. But still, I was dry and the Sahara because I was performing acts on a man who an hour before was screaming profanities at me. It wasn’t sexy and it wasn’t Living and it wasn’t enjoyable.

Poppy,

This is not what I am talking about, and it isn't OK. This is also abuse, and should not be tolerated regardless of your status as a wayward.

I am sorry for what you are going through.

[This message edited by xhz700 at 11:04 AM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Would it be better to simply say that equal sexual treatment would be a requirement for me for reconciliation, and anything less would be an absolute deal-breaker?

I think maybe sassylee is right, and a lot of this is just an element of communication and context. I am not into abuse, rough or degrading sex, or non-consent. Not in fantasy, not in practice.

Hypothetically, if my WS chose to swallow with another man, and couldn't generate that same enthusiasm for me, it's a clear sign that she places him higher than me sexually. That is an absolute, stone cold deal-breaker. As I think about it, if she agreed and had to force herself through the same act, also a deal-breaker.

Tell you what, for the women here who aren't seeing it the same way as some of the men, what do YOU suggest as a way to fix this.

I made a suggestion a couple pages ago, for WSs regardless of gender, where the WS can take the initiative on foreplay (this isn't the only solution, just one I'm suggesting). Foreplay is both physical and mental - it could be setting the mood all day, not just what you do right before sex. Why? Because foreplay is about desirability, and showing someone you're interested in them. Post-DDay, it's a BSs self-esteem that suffers so much, so as a start (and again, it would probably change and grow during R), the WS initiating the foreplay can be to show the BS that they are valued and desired. Then, sex can be more enjoyable for both parties, which is healing, because then the BS and WS are building something together. If the WS is desiring sex too, then the BS can feel it. "S/he really wants to be here with me." Isn't that more validating than a quick shag with no feelings? So, maybe asking the WS to take initiative on creating that mood would help. What do you think?

As others have said, I also like how NTV dealt with it. Language that is honest, clear, and approachable.

Nicenomore:

Your name is very apt.

I understand my husbands anger towards me and I own it. He however is responsible for his willingness to engage in sex acts that are neither desired or enjoyed. EVERYONE, BS, WS, MH ultimately has to live with themselves and their behavior at the end of the day.

Again, I’ll say if anyone here is looking for RECONCILIATION advice, they should take the source into account. I find that the advice and insight that I get from people that want to stay married and have been successful is more helpful to me.

I made a suggestion a couple pages ago, for WSs regardless of gender, where the WS can take the initiative on foreplay (this isn't the only solution, just one I'm suggesting). Foreplay is both physical and mental - it could be setting the mood all day, not just what you do right before sex.

There is a lot of merit to this thought! Perfect example, yesterday I had a long stressful day at work, I was worried about how Valentine's Day was going to go. We had dinner plans but that was it. I wasn't even able to buy flowers because I had to work late.

When I got home I was greeted by WW wearing a sexy german beer maid outfit complete with braided hair (my favorite) and a giant beer! It was so awesome and really hot. I instantly became excited, gave her a kiss and sat down with her to chat about the day and drink the beer. After unwinding for 20 minutes or so I felt much more relaxed and really enjoyed what ensued next before we even went out to dinner. I really appreciated the effort she made to make me feel wanted and desired. It's something she hasn't shown much of in a long long time.

Here's the most important thing, touched on in other ways. Infidelity is a lot like murder. No matter what the WS does or does not do, you will not be made whole. There is NO justice for either of those scenarios. Getting sex acts or having a revenge affair will not make you whole.

It's another human response to trauma that is illogical and does not work.

Poppy- my comment above was just to highlight the fact that everyone has their faults, and their opinions. Despite differing opinions, I earnestly try to respect others, and their views because I am in no position to make characterizations of individuals, and I didn’t want you to make the same of me.

I don’t mean to be hurtful, just straightforward, and wasn’t a fan of your assumption about me.

I have said before, owning your affair is important. And understanding why your husband is so angry isn’t for his benefit, it’s for yours. You are unhappy, you made poor choices, and your frustrated with your situation. But I also would advise you not to tolerate abuse. There is a line between a venting BS, terms of reconciliation, expecting contrition, and abuse. If your relationship has entered the latter, I would want nothing else than for you to seek counsel, support from friends and family, and escape the situation, regardless of what you did in your M.

I want to be frank, hoping that your husband has some magic change of heart into caring about how you feel seems unlikely. He is going beyond expecting you to show him love, or being stern in his expectations, he doesn’t care how you think or feel AT ALL. That’s not ok. It’s times like this when I recommend divorce, because he is clearly not being reasonable, despite his pain. I have read your other posts, and sex aside, the other things he has done are unnaceptable.

My opinions don’t make me some apathetic bastard, and contrary to what you think of me by my name, I’d never want any woman to be in a physically abusive relationship, regardless of what transpired in the marriage. I hope you get to a better place, I really do.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 11:55 AM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Randy, that is not a fact, that is your opinion. This is not how "open marriages" work. Because one person breaks their own vows doesn't mean that the vows you took are null and void. You still made a vow. The vows on your wedding day were not to be faithful unless your spouse fucks someone else. No, your vow was to be faithful. Period.

Vows don't mean too much to me if the other person doesn't keep theirs. Just a bunch of empty words and promises. I'm not hanging my hat on something as flimsy as that.

Your "word" means absolutely nothing to you, Randy? IDK, you seem like a proud man to me, I would think that keeping your word would be very important to you. He was a man of his word.

My word is very important to. But what kind of man would I be if I kept my word to someone who can't keep theirs to me? I'm not going to be someone's doormat. Don't say my word shouldn't be contingent on someone else as that is the idea of any arrangement/contract. I'm not going to keep delivering a service if the person isn't paying because one can't happen without the other.

That is exactly what a "man of his word" means, though, Randy. Regardless what others may do with their word, your word still means something to you. Your word is not contingent upon what others do with their word.

Truth is, Randy, your analogy doesn't really work as most savvy business people would have a written contract with the stipulation (unlike marriage vows) that if one party breaks the contract that the contract will then be null and void.

Truth is, Randy, your analogy doesn't really work as most savvy business people would have a written contract with the stipulation (unlike marriage vows) that if one party breaks the contract that the contract will then be null and void.

If this were true, then every divorced person would still be held to their vows as well, correct? The vows didn't say 'unless we divorce'.