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****Thinking on a few of these posts about the AP being a mirror and on how we as BS’s shouldn’t have to explain why we rage against them (which I agree we are allowed to feel how we feel and owe no one an explanation). And thinking on whether my insecurities were really all external (they absolutely weren’t in fact, it was the exposure of my deepest emotional insecurity that caused a lot of my rage).****

My insecurities while partially about my body were more than that. The AP was granted access (by my WS/someone I trusted too much with this part of me) to an area deep within me where I felt unlovable no matter what I did or how much of myself I compromised for it. Her very existence in my marriage exposed that profound insecurity. There she was…showing me just how much everything I did for my wayward spouse to love me was not enough. I was (((((unlovable))))) gosh and that message from my childhood rang so true for me for so long that I’d do anything not to have it be so anymore. This was where my own projection came into my romantic relationships. People I was with romantically played to the unlovable part of me - I would grant them access/trust to this space and do anything to prove to myself I could be loved by way of muting myself and compromising myself for their love. If they could love me then I could finally have it and prove that I AM LOVABLE for just being me; body, mind, spirit, all of it.

My rage was palpable, of course it was, this hurt ran deeper than I could fathom. The AP was an intruder to that vulnerable space within me. I would wait outside her house in hopes of running into her to beat her. I did beat her. And there was definitely plenty of that for my WS too. My rage was obsessive toward both of them. I had to dig deeper into myself to get past it. I didn’t owe anyone an explanation for it, that's undeniable. I did however owe it to myself to figure out why it was so intense because I was losing myself to it. My family/friends, etc., judging me for my rage makes me sad to think about because it made things that much harder for me. I was being judged and made to explain why I was responding the way that I was while I was in the most intense hurt I ever felt. I couldn't make sense of it, I didn't have the tools at the time to weed through what I was feeling. What I needed from others was compassion, not judgment. I hate that I experienced that from them. I didn't deserve it.

I do genuinely believe that after all of my work sorting through those parts of me, if I ran into her now I’d be ok enough not to immediately blackout and beat her again. And I definitely don’t rage against my WS anymore. I’m no longer obsessing and I found healing for myself which is much more peaceful.

[This message edited by maise at 6:12 PM, Friday, September 10th]

Bottom line you can’t masturbate yourself into an affair and all the ‘introspective’ work in the world will not convince me of the lack of culpability of the AP. I don’t consider this to be anything to do with a ‘mirror of my insecurities’ or whatever. She hurt me, she hurt my kids, she continues to try to cause trouble for my family, despite being engaged to and pregnant by her new partner. I loathe her and would happily dance on her grave.

And simply no one is saying that our spouses were manipulated here, or blaming the AP more. Just NO ONE. I’m so tired of this answer which clearly doesn’t reflect anything, anyone has said here.

Well said Hellfire.

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 8:50 AM, Saturday, September 11th]

all the ‘introspective’ work in the world

I don’t consider this to be anything to do with a ‘mirror of my insecurities’ or whatever.

I’m so tired of this answer which clearly doesn’t reflect anything, anyone has said here.

? Who is all this toward?

Absolutely not you Maise, I realise you are replying to OIN about your own journey, my reply was not to you.

I have absolute respect for you and the journey you’ve been on and the work you have done.

But I tire of hearing voices on here which imply BS who haven’t worked introspectively, delved into themselves in counselling or just thought HARD enough about their hatred for the AP, are giving their spouse an easier time, or haven’t grown enough/healed enough. You are not one of those.

Sometimes we just dislike people intensely because they hurt us, hurt our children, hurt our families. End of. That is my point.

I have a hard time struggling with this too but then Im also empathetic to a fault and actually pity both my STBXH and the OW.

She is a lot different than me. Uneducated, trashy, has a ton tattoos - now there are tattoos that are works of art and then there are tattoos that clearly look like you got them done in a small hick town when you were a teenager. She has (a tongue and nipple rings) as she posts on social media about lol... and has a toddler with a baby daddy that cheated on her with a stripper. Clearly we come from very different backgrounds. Idk if she thought this was all normal but its not.

I had a feeling she was after my husband when I saw her liking his pics, etc. She was on the prowl for him. And his weak ass gave in. 12 YEARS together down the drain.

After I caught them (in my own home, on a doggy camera - yes I got to hear it!) My STBXH tried to deny at first, while he was wasted sleeping with her in my bed, I have also come to find out he fucked her in our bed the weekend prior (probably many) and didn't even have an ounce of respect to change the sheets, Really deranged if you ask me. The day after I found out though she moved into our new lake house (we bought it in Sep 2020) so I hadn't even experienced a summer there yet. So she got the bakehouse, my STBXH and his $.

I was talking to my therapist about the "in our own home" aspect of cheating. There are a few thoughts I have on this. One - this was clearly a power move by my STBXH - basically him subconsciously or consciously deciding to do her in our bed and home to show its HIS home and not ours. SO disgusting and disrespectful. All cheaters suck but at least take your whore to a motel... My God. The other aspect is another woman coming into my home. I feel like there is a certain kinship among women. Yes, lines get crossed and shitty people cheat, but to walk into another woman's home, see the love & care she puts in, her decor, her dogs, and STILL feel ok fucking her husband in those sheets?? WTF is wrong with you???

Im more mad at the illusion of what she has than what she actually has. What is she winning? A pathological liar who would chose to screw a trashy whore in his wife's bed while she's visiting a friend? A gaslighter? A Manipulator and abuser? I mean really, its SO delusional to me that they think these men are prizes. ESPECIALLY when she has a fucking toddler?? Mine also is an alcoholic and I believe was doing shady business near the end of our marriage. So Im assuming he wanted someone to drink with, fuck, build up his ego and do illegal business without having a honest wife tell him to NOT do those things. Water finds its own level huh? I assume that he will do the same thing to her in time. Especially because he is analytically very intelligent (emotionally braindead clearly) but her body, her inadequacy and clear bad morals will start to get old. She will probably go back to her baby daddy and cheat.

Idk I feel bad for them because they are awful people. Gross, insensitive, delusional people.

Example of delusional - I remember the last time I had to see him to sign our divorce papers. She was BLOWING his phone up about how long he was spending with me, telling him to get home now etc. I even saw one of the texts and it said "This is how you would feel if I was with Josh for a long time" Jose is her baby daddy... so she's equating a 12 year marriage to some 1 year relationship with a loser that got her pregnant on accident?? THAT IS NOT THE SAME.

[This message edited by tealmermaid at 8:38 PM, Thursday, September 16th]

I don’t feel angry towards my WH’s APs, more like pity.

First, they were homely. He preying them. They took the bait

I feel sad for them because he dropped them so fast after he used them

After I caught them (in my own home, on a doggy camera - yes I got to hear it!) My STBXH tried to deny at first, while he was wasted sleeping with her in my bed, I have also come to find out he fucked her in our bed the weekend prior (probably many) and didn't even have an ounce of respect to change the sheets

Oh my god that is horrifying & so violating.

I feel like there is a certain kinship among women. Yes, lines get crossed and shitty people cheat, but to walk into another woman's home, see the love & care she puts in, her decor, her dogs, and STILL feel ok fucking her husband in those sheets?? WTF is wrong with you???

I always thought that too, but no longer do. I agree, WTF is wrong with them??

Im more mad at the illusion of what she has than what she actually has. What is she winning? A pathological liar who would chose to screw a trashy whore in his wife's bed while she's visiting a friend? A gaslighter? A Manipulator and abuser? I mean really, its SO delusional to me that they think these men are prizes.

100%. I cannot understand how anyone thinks "Yes, the married man cheating on his wife & neglecting his kids is the one I want!! *swoon*"

It's been a year, since he told me he had a affair 13 years ago. with a woman he worked with. You are 100% valid in your feelings. I do believe, that my husband took the vow to be loyal to me but at the same time she obviously knew he was weak & possibly in a tough spot in his marriage. As a woman she should say " You are married and you need to fix it or leave." But instead the women who are ok with cheating with a married man are the ones who will never love them and see a opportunity for materialistic or a confidence booster. I make my husband wish he could fix it and is doing everything right to show me that she was the only one and he is dedicated to me and his family. Karma has hit this woman hard since she tried to tear my family apart. She has been divorced 2x she is a widow who developed a meth problem and she lost her son do to a overdose that she was charged with man slader with since it was her meth they were using he was 19. I feel horrible for her child he never had a chance and I hope he is safe and resting now. But the fact that she has had karma 10x makes me happy. I tried to find out as much as I could about her the more shit I came across it made me laugh and feel so much better. Like Oh Sweet Jesus you really thought you had a chance to be more that just a mistake. Play PI liens, bankruptcies, Police Records are all public everyone has something. Any time I found myself down spiral and don't want a restraining order J/K LOL I laugh at the crappy stuff in her life and was thankful for mine.

Every time I read or hear that line about “the AP didn’t make vows to you” followed by any sort of idea that a BS shouldn’t be mad at or hate the AP, I always think this:

I never made a vow not to shit on someone’s pillow but I’m pretty sure they’d have the right to be mad at me if I did it.

Good grief! If the criteria for acceptable behavior is that one has made a vow about it, and you’re not supposed to be upset unless the behavior violated a specific vow made to you, we are all in a lot of trouble. That’s just ridiculous.

I get where OIN is coming from, and I am one of those people who believes that forgiveness is a key to healing and peace. But I don’t think it’s unhealthy to have and express rage/anger/hate toward everyone involved in destroying one’s life. And I don’t think it’s wrong or unhealthy to work through each relationship differently, based on the different roles.

It really disturbs me when a BS comes here to vent and gets told repeatedly that his or her feelings are invalid or wrong. We shouldn’t be doing that here. And to be clear, IMO, any version of “you should be mad at your WS, not the AP” is telling that BS that his/her feelings are wrong.

I think someone above mentioned kinship, some sort of women code saying we don’t fuck each other’s husbands… I made the mistake of looking on an adultery subforum (you know, the famous one) and it’s actually amazing how much kick other women get from knowing they screw another woman’s husband.

One was explaining what an elating experience it was to have her married AP feeling her whilst he was on a call with his wife. Another told her to try giving him a BJ next time his wife calls him, it is simply amazing. Another one concluded "oh my! I hope my MM’s wife calls whilst he’s with me, I’ll definitely give him a BJ".

Add smug posts about having sex on the the marriage anniversary, in their bed etc. Apparently this is all part of a fantastic and overwhelming experience.

Now I know not all OWs are like that but a lot of them are, especially single ow’s who, based on my personal experience and all the reading I’ve done, all want to prove their self worth by directly damaging another woman. For them IT IS about the competition, about winning, about feeling that they got the prize, about being chosen hence they’re worth it. (He sacrificed his entire family for me, lost half his assets and time with his kids, wow, I’m so special).

Being angry at the ow doesn’t take away from being angry at your WH. I for one do not allow it to consume me even if it did so in the early days. I will never give a scummy woman a get out card such as "she didn’t make any vows to me". Lol! Fine, in that case I didn’t make any vows in a lot of areas of my life, I didn’t vow not to rob a bank, not kill someone, why would I be held responsible if I commit those acts then?

No, I don’t follow her in the street, I don’t show up at her house, I don’t have my days centred around hating her. But when I do think of her, I do hope she gets all she deserves for trying to build her happiness on my and my kids’ misery and pain.

I just made a post yesterday for the first time in over a year. I'm about 8 years out. I detested the mow so much. I wished bad things on her. She was stupid and ugly and a serial cheater. I hated her, she and my wh hurt my family so much, and hers. it was brief and cliche and stupid, like her. We are healing. We live far from her now - over one thousand miles And Ive been snooping on her sporadically since. I laughed at her pathetic life and hoped her career would explode. And her finances. And yesterday I checked and saw that she lost a child on Sunday to a tragic accident. her youngest, 14 yr old boy,( I also have a son the same age), hit by a car riding his bike. My son rides bikes every day. I wish I had never looked. I wish I had stopped my FBI CIA NSA housewife level deep dives into social media to see if I could learn something shitty about her. And I did. But my hate disappeared instantly.

Time will help you. But at the end of the day, I can tell you that you will not feel good at all when you learn terrible things have happened to women you hate. I wasted a lot of time on her and now I'm left with this story which is so much worse than mine. To say I'm conflicted and confused right now would be an understatement. I have been privately praying for her and her family. I lost sleep last night.

You will heal, but their pain will not do it.

Northerngal,

I posted on your thread, but I just want to say again how much I am praying for you through this. I can't imagine all of the feelings at once. It's so important to be allowed to feel what you feel. Even when it's all conflicting and doesn't make sense.

Be gentle with yourself.

Thank you hfssc. I don’t expect people to stop the snooping and hating - I was right there with you! Ridiculing her was a fun thing to do ffs. But maybe we can all do a kind deed today. Or at least hug our loved ones extra hard.

I'm so glad I finally found something that echoes my own immense pain and struggle with my hate towards the OW. Sincerely thank you for voicing this and everyone for responding with your stories and struggles. I'm going to read this entire thread so I can finally not feel alone in this.

I feel stuck in my rage. I can't get past it and it is eating at me everyday. These women knew me. They knew my name, they knew we had children. One of them was a family "friend", regularly in my house for dinners and holidays and knew my children. We all work in the same industry including my WH and all used to work at the same company over the years and my odds of running into these women is way too high to function.

I went to a work conference last week and one of the women knew my WH and I would be there. She showed up anyway, had one of our mutual friends run reconnaissance checking where I was so he could escort her past me to block confrontation. She showed up in 6in. red heels and the shortest office whore skirt I have ever seen. She looked so ridiculous and it was obvious she was hoping my WH would be there to flaunt all of this in my face. If I had done something like this to someone, you would never hear from me again. I would be so ashamed. She didn't need to be there for work - she's not a commercial lead needing to originate business. There was only one reason she was there and it is so crystal clear to me what kind of person she is. The level of disgust I feel is so overwhelming.

It's been a year since the end of the A but it still feels like it was yesterday. My WH and I are trying to R but I do not think it is going to work long term. He can't understand my rage towards these women and I feel completely alone in it. I have no one to talk to and no one to help me process this and I desperately want to let it go.

I know that he feels like my attack on these women is an attack on him because he is guilty of the same things they are. But at least he is here with remorse and apologies and working honestly everyday to heal us. These women never apologized to me and never will and based on parading around in front of me in red heels and a short skirt - I know 1000% she doesn't feel bad about what happened. It's completely deplorable and unacceptable behavior.

And taking the high road and living my best life for revenge feels completely impossible when I am so obviously stuck in my rage....Thanks for listening.

Gfab, "I know that he feels like my attack on these women is an attack on him" can be reframed as I rage at them because I can't rage at you if I am trying to recover with you. Deal with it.

The trampy outfit and the shameless hubris she showed would set me off for good. Tramps gotta tramp, but they don't have to do it in your face.

And yeah, my rage burns white hot. I loathe her and still send her an occasional commemorative shaming email and I know she's not worth the bandwidth, but I also know it upsets her, so I still write more than I send. My WH said he never thinks of her unless I bring her up, and I do a lot. Too bad. He can't understand my obsession. I framed it like this: He kept seeing MOW even after I threatened D because he thought I'd never find out and because he was addicted to her/the ego kibbles/the secret playroom. Well welcome to my addiction. He kicked his addiction when I kicked her out of our lives, and now he has to deal with my addiction.

On paper, I get a decade to even the score and could care less about what is right or wrong or healthy or damaging at this point. I'm riding my hatred into the sunset until it fades away on its own or until she is no longer on the planet. I've become that person.

My WH likes to make knives. Ironic. He has honed me into a very sharp edge. I make zero apologies.

[This message edited by whatisloveanyway at 4:00 PM, Wednesday, October 6th]

Gfab10011 - Hugs to you! I'm so sorry. Yes, I completely relate to your rage. My xWH's APs were not people I knew, that is a whole other level of violation and rage on top of everything eles.

He can't understand my rage towards these women and I feel completely alone in it.

My xWH finally understood it when I put it like this: If there was an intruder at our door and they were intent on hurting our kids, would you let them in? Would you befriend them? Would you have sex with them? Would you think they were good people? That's exactly what these APs were doing. They were intent on ruining your life, causing us to divorce, and ruining our kids' lives in the process. They were fine to do something that would result in you losing precious time with your kids. They are not good people.

I know that he feels like my attack on these women is an attack on him because he is guilty of the same things they are.

Yep, my xWH realized the same thing. That's got to be a shitty realization, but it's the truth. The only way to healing is accepting reality.

And taking the high road and living my best life for revenge feels completely impossible when I am so obviously stuck in my rage....Thanks for listening.

Hugs again. I totally get it. I want justice! Revenge! I want them to suffer!

I admit my rage is less now than when I first wrote this post, but it's not gone and I stil hope they suffer for the rest of their miserable lives.

Luna10 - My god those people are disgusting excuses for human beings.

Being angry at the ow doesn’t take away from being angry at your WH. I for one do not allow it to consume me even if it did so in the early days. I will never give a scummy woman a get out card such as "she didn’t make any vows to me". Lol! Fine, in that case I didn’t make any vows in a lot of areas of my life, I didn’t vow not to rob a bank, not kill someone, why would I be held responsible if I commit those acts then?

No, I don’t follow her in the street, I don’t show up at her house, I don’t have my days centred around hating her. But when I do think of her, I do hope she gets all she deserves for trying to build her happiness on my and my kids’ misery and pain.

^^^This! Yes. It's ok to be angry at people who hurt us & our kids.

The whores thought my WH was so wonderful, just the best guy ever. He was apparently very attentive, a great listener, and respectful of their feelings (hard for me to imagine, but whatever). What I wish for them is that they someday find husbands just like him. I hope they find someone who will treat them the same way he has treated me.

The whores thought my WH was so wonderful, just the best guy ever. He was apparently very attentive, a great listener, and respectful of their feelings (hard for me to imagine, but whatever).

I read a book recently that had stories of various people's lives. One was a woman who had an affair with a married man for TWENTY YEARS, waiting for him to leave his wife & family for her. He was great to her while they were in the affair.

After 20 years, he finally did leave his wife and moved in with her, and then she realized what an asshole he is.

But even if he's great to the APs, imagine thinking "Oh yes, the married man cheating on his wife and neglecting his kids! That's the one I want!" They're terrible, stupid people.

What I wish for them is that they someday find husbands just like him. I hope they find someone who will treat them the same way he has treated me.

100%. I'm pretty sure that's all they're able to get, because they aren't deep enough to have real, meaningful connections & relationships with people.

I am many, many years past my husband's infidelity and we have been happily reconciled, but I have no patience for being told I don't have the right to be pissed at the OW. I still hate her to this day. As several other's have said, there is plenty of pain and anger (and accountability!) to go around. Just because I hold her responsible for her part in the hurt they caused my family, doesn't mean I don't hold him accountable for his part in it.

Here's the difference between the two, and it's very simple. He has walked through fire and glass to make amends to me and our kids. He has walked the walk, stayed the stead, made himself a better man. I only knew her in the context of the woman who slept with my husband. She never apologized or expressed remorse. I can only hope she has done work to make herself a better person because she needed to. My husband and I have moved on because he made things better, she's done nothing to make things better.

Ours was not a case of her not knowing he was married. She invited him to dinner three times before he accepted. She pursued him knowing he was a married man. That does not absolve him of his responsibility for accepting her overtures, but she overstepped societal and female boundaries.

To demonstrate what a low life she is, the night I caught him at her house, once I walked away, he told her he had to go home. She wanted him to go upstairs and have sex with him before he left. As he recounted to me, "there I was with my whole life in shambles and she expected me to go upstairs and perform for her." Yeah, these women are lowlifes and deserve our anger. I take great satisfaction in knowing she is still alone all these years later. My dislike of her hasn't hampered my life one little bit.