SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello dear friends,

I never thought I'd be posting here the day I discovered this forum.

I finally did what many people have done here, which is to post on JFO, then post on Reconciliation, then post here.

For those who have been following my posts, I waited 4 years after D-Day, I carried this reconciliation at arm's length, I did everything I could so that I could find in my wife the desire, the love that she had felt for another man, through everything she had written and done, for months, in 2020.

She made commitments, with me and in MC, but soon forgot them and went back to her old ways. As you may have guessed, she didn't read any of the books I'd suggested, didn't browse any of the forums she knew I wrote on. I know it because spied on her web searches for months and months, hoping to find some sign that she was looking for me to get better.

Unfortunately all I found were searches for her ex-lover's facebook or linkedin profile, and then, interspersed with searches on how to lose weight, how to look younger, clothes and jewelry, I found mostly phrases like "my husband is too jealous", "my husband takes away my freedom", or "husband too controlling". Not exactly the contrition one had been looking for, eh ?

Almost everyone here, when I described her behavior on my first post, told me she wasn't really remorseful. I didn't want to believe it, not after what she'd done. However, as I read in this very place a few days ago, what mattered to her was only that I got better so that she could feel better (still selfish), not to look for the root causes of my sadness and try to fix them (by crawling over broken glass, as some people here have also said).

I'm aware that I've got some work to do on myself, as I've actively participated in the deterioration of this relationship, and it's a point on which I'm being helped by a great therapist. She helped me realize that my wife had no regard for me, and probably hasn't for a very long time. I'm responsible for this because I put her on a pedestal and I've always tried to please her, to satisfy her needs even before she formulated them.

But today, through the terribly harsh words she may still have for me, it seems to me that she never really profoundly changed. On every argument we have she ends up criticizing my virility, my courage, even putting me down to the point of telling me during our last fight that I "wouldn't find better than her elsewhere", and that "I'd just end up an old bachelor masturbating alone in my room"...

I can't quote all the examples of her sentences because there really would be too many, but I'll just finish with the one that I think hurt me the most: after another argument in February, I heard her on the phone with her brother, distinctly saying "That's enough, I'm fed up with him playing this "You cheated on me" tune like a broken record, over and over again".

(For context, her brother is a narcissistic A-hole to whom she had confessed the infidelity 3 months before I discovered it, and who not only refrained from telling me or dissuading her, but told her that she had to leave me for her new lover, even knowing that his sister and I had been together for 17 years with a home and two young children. Since then I consider him an enemy of the relationship.)

It hurts me to admit it, but I think for 20 years I've been in love with a person that only existed in my mind. I fantasized her desire and love for me, I fantasized her courage and her intelligence. That was very likely just a projection of what I was expecting from her, and I'm responsible for this. Now and since DDAY I was just projecting on her the kind of loving and remorseful partner that would move mountains to help our marriage thrive. But she's not even close to this. She's a selfish, unloving, unintelligent 45+ woman, who were never single even for a week since puberty (well, she recently even had two guys at once as you know...) and never had to put up the slightest effort with men. I thought she was MY princess, but she's anybody's princess. She's just like an old, broke aristocrat : used to wealth, but actually pennyless, courageless, delusionnal and waiting for the next guy that will fill her gaping narcissic flaws. Sorry for that rant, I feel really bitter and I'm trying hard not to.

Today I'm heading for divorce. I had made a commitment to myself in 2023 to let her until November 14, 2024 (which would have been the anniversary of our first date) to give me what I wanted from her, but I know that's not going to happen. And to tell you the truth, I don't want it to happen anymore, at least not with her.

I've written her a long break-up letter, because I've got too much on my mind and I know that if I start by talking about it, not only will we fight, but I'll forget most of what I'd like to say to her before we part.

I've already contacted a lawyer and a notary to find out what's going to happen, and in my head I've already got one foot out the door, even though I'm very apprehensive about what's going to happen next, especially for my daughters.

To make matters worse, my parents, who used to live 2h30 away from us, have suddenly decided to sell to be closer to us...

Thanks for reading

[This message edited by iamjack at 10:44 AM, Tuesday, October 8th]

I’m saddened to read this but I think you are making the right decision. You have given this marriage everything you have — while she has given very little but has been happy to take what you have given.

Be prepared to see a new side or her — the D side. She’s now the STBXW - soon to be ex wife. It could get ugly and be a bitter battle.

As I said to someone else here at SI, you need to protect yourself. I would install cameras through out your home. I’d suggest you have a recording device on you at all times. You don’t want to be hit with a domestic violence charge that is not true. Since it could be her word against yours you need to protect yourself.

Just remember you gave this marriage your best and you did everything you could to make it work. However she did nothing to make it work, help you heal or take accountability for lying and cheating.

You deserve better. I hope you realize that.

PS. She sounds alot like her brother. Not in a good way.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:18 AM, Tuesday, October 8th]

Thank you for your words, The1stWife. No I don't realize I deserve better unfortunately, I just think I should be better off alone, and I'm preparing for that. Because I'd rather be the old bachelor she described "jerking off alone" than to stay with her after what she has done. And to quote Woody Allen, she shouldn't knock masturbation, at least it's "sex with someone I love"...

I may be naïve, but I don't see how she could become a monster during the D. But I guess you are right, and better be safe than sorry. She always told me she would always think about the wellness of our kids and never fight over them, but again, as for everything else, these were words. Her actions until now have proven she puts herself before anything else, so I'd better get a good VAR and maybe get some hidden cams in the house...

[This message edited by iamjack at 12:16 PM, Tuesday, October 8th]

Have you already shared with her your decision to divorce her? What was her reaction?

Fantastic : no, she doesn't know yet. First, she doesn't care what forums I tell my story on. Second, she barely understands english. Third I think she has no clue because she's confident I will never be the first to go. Lately she's taken the subject so lightly that every time I try to tell her how I feel, she answers "if you're not happy, you know what to do".

A few days ago, she saw I was lost in my thoughts, and she told me "I can feel something's wrong, and I think I know what it is". I was stupid enough to believe she understood what was going to happen, but... later that day she said "I know why you're lost. You think I don't love you anymore, but you are wrong !"

Sigh...

[This message edited by iamjack at 1:16 PM, Tuesday, October 8th]

Definitely be prepared to see a different side of her once she gets wind you want to D her. She will most likely become vindictive due to being the one rejected and losing the power and control she thinks she has in the M. My xWS never thought I'd leave him. He didn't think I was strong enough and boy was he surprised. The way he lashed out at me and harassed me was incredible. This continued until I threatened a restraining order that's when his nonsense stopped.

Crazyblindsided

Definitely be prepared to see a different side of her once she gets wind you want to D her. She will most likely become vindictive due to being the one rejected and losing the power and control she thinks she has in the M. My xWS never thought I'd leave him. He didn't think I was strong enough and boy was he surprised. The way he lashed out at me and harassed me was incredible. This continued until I threatened a restraining order that's when his nonsense stopped.

Yes, I suppose you're right. The main thing that will make her absolutely furious is the house. She loves it as it is just beside her father's house (a clinically insane WS that left his family on Christmas Eve to go live with his AP 25 years ago. Then he went under the radar, his BS and children didnt hear of him for about 5 years. He's still with that awful woman).

Really to me it's more a relief to be as far away as possible from this maniac

But she will be furious, for sure, because I'm almost certain she will not be able to buy my share of the home, and thus lose it forever...

This house was always more important to her than me or our relationship. When she was with her AP, in August, she never told me she wanted to break up with me, just that she would like to by my share. I think it tells a lot about her priorities, don't you think ?

[This message edited by iamjack at 6:10 PM, Tuesday, October 8th]

Or she didn't think through the consequences of her actions. My XWH didn't think he'd get caught, so he didn't care about what might happen.

When she was with her AP, in August, she never told me she wanted to break up with me, just that she would like to by my share. I think it tells a lot about her priorities, don't you think?

Definitely. But I had a very narcissistic friend at work who was eventually fired for her misdeeds. She was/is a serial cheater, but she would be furious if her H wanted a D. She loves being married for the public image and daily chore help--all while she has both internet and RL boyfriends galore! She wants, feels entitled, to have both! She would never want a D.

I think your WW also wants both, so be prepared to see her venomous side.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:37 AM, Wednesday, October 9th]

Get yourself a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) and keep it with you. If she wants that house, a false DV claim can get you the boot. You need to have a record of your conversations to provide the truth.

I just think I should be better off alone, and I'm preparing for that.

Hey now - alone can be great - and definitely better than what you have now. So, you DO deserve it, and more if you want it!

[This message edited by Fit43 at 6:03 AM, Thursday, October 10th]

The number one diagnostic universal trait of a narcissist they lack empathy; #2 entitlement. Alot of people are takers or entitled- they key element in what I now believe is a person you can reconcile with or someone you can rebuild with through massive trauma - empathy. Your dealing with an abuser; your dealing with a narc. All of your words resonate with me, it's a picture of what a man goes through with a narcissistic wife. The only difference is I got out at 15 months. Narc women unlike narc men are more likely to want to go to marriage counselling and put on the whole charade of image protection. They do so for different reasons but both motivations are the same, social manipulation to protect ideal image. The narc man - masculine and powerful who can handle all problems through personal strength. The narc women who did all she could to atone. Both lack empathy and both are motivated to protect their false ideal imagery of self.

My narc ex never said I would live a life alone, secluded to jacking off but she thought it and she also expected me to be their jacking off and pining away for her the whole time. Lord that kind of grandiosenes when you've hurt someone boils my blood.

After my divorce, my first romantic encounter was a current playboy model. Another a very attractive doctor. Both of those women were also extremely broken, but I was able to catch it fairly quickly and get out early. Point being life after divorce is tough and finding a healthy life partner is also extremely difficult. But if you're a halfway put together middle aged man, I can guarantee you that you won't be secluded to screwing yourself for the rest of your days. In today's market a middle aged man who has his shit together and is also emotionally healthy enough to show true resilience is a catch. Focus on post traumatic growth - that is reconciling with your faults in the marriage, but more so removing the rose colored glasses that let you over look all the signs you failed to see or ignored in the taker you were married to. Hopefully the lessons you learned in being married to a taker will better grab your attention in life 2.0.

Divorce sucks, the loss of the dream for your future you planned for sucks. But it gets easier as each day goes by. Give yourself grace. You believed the best in someone who showed you, they are not who you believed them to be. It happens to most all of us in life, some of us are just more burned by it than others. Grab your values with all you have and know you did all you could. Yes the uncertainty of life 2.0 after divorce is unsettling but take solice in an honest effort to rebuild. You did all you could, nothing you did caused this. I'm sure like in most cheating scenarios your soon to be EX has grabbed up all of the victimized oxygen available. Good, you don't need that. Go breath in all that thriving 02 out there and rebuild.

I hate to see how another family was destroyed by this ugly act of selfishness. But you can be great in life 2.0 and take solice in a giving heart that offered true love and a second chance.

I am 44 and was married for 20 yrs. Sounds like are stories are very similar. Upward on onwards betrayed brother. Getting out of infidelity is great, getting away from an abuser is even better. Expect the unexpected from her in divorce but either way her true colors and lack of character will show up. Be civil, be a good coparent, but don't get lulled into still being friends which for her = narc supply doormat.

[This message edited by Fit43 at 6:11 AM, Thursday, October 10th]

Fit43

Thank you for your words.

The number one diagnostic universal trait of a narcissist they lack empathy; #2 entitlement. [...] The narc man - masculine and powerful who can handle all problems through personal strength. The narc women who did all she could to atone. Both lack empathy and both are motivated to protect their false ideal imagery of self.

Very true. I knew from DDAY my wife was a narcissist, but I guess I didn't want to self-diagnose her, as nowadays it seems everybody's a narcissistic pervert.

My narc ex never said I would live a life alone, secluded to jacking off but she thought it and she also expected me to be their jacking off and pining away for her the whole time. Lord that kind of grandiosenes when you've hurt someone boils my blood.

I cope with by telling myself her words were said during an argument where both of us were screaming, but still... can't get them out of my head. She never really apologized for them either. She just denies she ever said that, or just changes subject if I mention this.

But if you're a halfway put together middle aged man, I can guarantee you that you won't be secluded to screwing yourself for the rest of your days.

I was already a lousy seducer before I met my wife 20 years ago. Just imagine what I am now, with the bitterness when it comes to relationships, and 20 years of being "out of the market"...

Focus on post traumatic growth - that is reconciling with your faults in the marriage, but more so removing the rose colored glasses that let you over look all the signs you failed to see or ignored in the taker you were married to. Hopefully the lessons you learned in being married to a taker will better grab your attention in life 2.0.

Thank you. This is precisely what I'm doing in IC. When I go there my wife always wonders what I told the therapist about her. Yup, always about her.

Divorce sucks, the loss of the dream for your future you planned for sucks. But it gets easier as each day goes by. Give yourself grace. You believed the best in someone who showed you, they are not who you believed them to be.

Absolutely. It sucks but not so much for me, I'm more thinking about my two sweethearts who never asked for this.

You did all you could, nothing you did caused this.

I know that now. I did what I could, considering what I knew. I don't regret trying R, and I don't regret having loved her as I did. I'm only to blame for not understanding who she really was, for always being there to fill every need she had — until she decided she had unmet needs that only an AP could fill, that is. I encouraged her lack of respect through the years, and I let her walk over me. This may be my only regret here.

I hate to see how another family was destroyed by this ugly act of selfishness. But you can be great in life 2.0 and take solice in a giving heart that offered true love and a second chance.

Yup. I guess you can't force remorse and contrition. Not to mention desire and love, of course.

I am 44 and was married for 20 yrs. Sounds like are stories are very similar. Upward on onwards betrayed brother. Getting out of infidelity is great, getting away from an abuser is even better. Expect the unexpected from her in divorce but either way her true colors and lack of character will show up. Be civil, be a good coparent, but don't get lulled into still being friends which for her = narc supply doormat.

Yes your story sounds strangely familiar... I read your profile, some parts I could have written myself. We met in Law school, we were best friends and she still says we are. From the outside a perfect family, arguments were rare...

I understand why you were quicker to give her the boot. From what I've read she tricked you into reconciliation, and continued to cheat on you even after discovery. That's unforgivable. My story is a bit more complex, since she never contacted the AP since 2020. I know this because all her means of contacting him (except physically when she's on the train at the same time as him) were monitored. But no messages, no phone calls, no weird locations, nothing.

To be fair, she broke no-contact TWICE after DDAY. Once in October, and once in December 2020. Did the hard 180 on her and we broke up for a month. She never contacted him since. The problem lies elsewhere. I don't even care for the guy now, or for the probability that she could cheat on me again. The problem is who she is with me. She was always like this, but I just didn't realize until I removed my rose-tainted glasses. I see her broken self as she really is, and that's enough...

You're right on the lack of character. What's funny is now she decided to work on herself, to be more "assertive", more straightforward about what she disagrees with, more working on an open communication. I can't help but think "Babe, that's great. I'm glad you are taking this path. I wish you'd done this sooner so I could see the real you. We'd have saved a lot of time."

[This message edited by iamjack at 11:29 AM, Thursday, October 10th]

I was already a lousy seducer before I met my wife 20 years ago. Just imagine what I am now, with the bitterness when it comes to relationships, and 20 years of being "out of the market"...

More good news - you don't have to be a seducer in your 40s (unless you want someone in their 20s - then maybe you do?!?!)! In fact, I would say most of us when we get to that age and beyond (infidelity scarred or not) - don't want to be seduced in that love bombing way that sounded so slick when we were younger - we want real. If the real you inadvertently seduces us all the better - but most of us after the first time around especially, aren't interested in those moves.

Yep same again- her I'm working on myself is now I have a voice, now I'm more assertive. It's all bullshit, no doubt both were quite conflict avoidant but my ex was always pretty hot tampered.

"I'd just end up an old bachelor masturbating alone in my room"...

Well... at least you will know where your hand’s been...

Iamjack – I’m not going to say sorry you are here. For me – divorce is better than remaining in an unhappy and unfulfilling relationship. Infidelity doesn’t IMHO automatically lead to divorce, just attempting to reconcile does not automatically lead to a happy ongoing marriage.
I know of couples that did reconcile from marital traumas like infidelity and then later on realize their happiness might lie elsewhere. I also know of plenty of instances here on SI where there is an attempt to reconcile, only for one or both to realize that this marriage isn’t what they really want. Marriage is a choice, a decision, and not a lifetime sentence.

I guess this site’s mantra is to survive infidelity. Irrespective of how your relationship ends up. I encourage you to focus on that – to realize that although THIS relationship might have sailed it’s course then you might still have some issues you need to deal with for your own good.

Will you end up hanging out on pornsites with paper-towels, cross-eyed and hairy palms? Well... only if you are into that.
I can share that after my d-day – albeit at the age you were at over 20 years ago – I was quite active on the casual-hookup scene for maybe a year or so. Then it got weary... empty... One day – at a coffee-shop – I saw this beautiful woman who took my breath away. Taking the chance that she might frequent that place I hung out there quite a lot over the next week(s) before seeing her again and approaching her to talk. At first, she had no interest, but eventually agreed to go on a Saturday lunch-date (about as low-risk, not wasting precious time to get rid of this persistent loser a decision as she could make). We have been together since...
I guess I’m saying that when the right time comes, and the right person is there... it will happen.

I just think I should be better off alone, and I'm preparing for that.

My D was finalized in Dec 2019. I'm still single.

Sometimes I think it might be nice to find someone and I believe that I will someday, just haven't gotten there yet. Thankfully I have always enjoyed my own company so I rarely find myself feeling lonely.

But you know what else is awesome about being single? The PEACE. I haven't had a fight in 5 years. I haven't felt devalued in 5 years. I haven't cried myself to sleep in 5 years. I haven't had to deal with an emotionally bankrupt soul-sucking douchecanoe in FIVE YEARS.

For now just focus on taking care of YOU. Protect yourself legally and emotionally. Give yourself room to grieve - even if you loved a false version of her, this is still a very real loss that you need to allow yourself to feel. Don't worry if you feel bitter or hurt or sad or angry because those are all part of the process and they're normal.

Most of all, just know that this too shall pass. You're gonna be okay even if it doesn't feel that way now.

I’m sorry, man, even if Bigger isn’t

Look up the song "Death without a funeral", I found it to be very appropriate for when I made my choice to D.

I hope we can support each other in this new journey neither of us wanted but both of us chose. Onward to new and better.

Jack, I have no idea if your wife could be sociopathic but people who have no empathy often are. I recommend THE SOCIOPATH NEXT DOOR. My husband employed a woman who turned out to be one. She was never dangerous, she just never cared who got hurt during her manipulations. Since I have had many hrs in college about PDs I try never to label people just because of one or two issues but I always say look at behaviors over a long period of time. Usually there are chinks in the wall that you can see through. Btw, any PD must meet strict requirements for a diagnosis so she might come close on the continuum but not meet the diagnosis. If you see much of that in her then get ready to let go. We do not change our basic personalities. We might try hard to behave better but under the surface is the same as ever. She is who she is regardless and if you are exhausted it is time to move on..and good luck.