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For those in the middle of D who have kids, or who have already been through and out the other side, how do you handle Christmas? Do you ever jointly see the children on holidays?

I ask because STBXWW has been saying she wants to come over early Christmas morning and be there when the kids (5 and 6) wake up so she can be there for them.

Personally I find this not only difficult for me (since she left me and the house for OM) but confusing for the kids, who won’t know what to expect of Mom being there in the morning and playing house. However… the kids would likely enjoy seeing her and STBXWW will say I should "do it for the kids." So I’m not sure which route is best.

What’s everyone else do?

Personally if it were me, I'd do Christmas on Christmas Eve. When she comes over Christmas Day, I'd do the swap. Three reasons. 1) I'm petty AF and would want to have the complete Christmas Day experience first with the kids. 2) she cannot say you denied her the opportunity to see her kids on Christmas Day. 3) it looks good that you gave her Christmas Day visit the first year. I'm assuming you don't yet have a visitation/custody order signed off by the judge yet. Once you present a custody/visitation schedule you can hammer put holidays. Most have each parent alternating them and switching each year. For example, you get Christmas day odd years, she gets even. And the opposite for Thanksgiving, etc.
If I'm wrong and you've already got this all settled, disregard the above advice. But do NOT play happy family. That's confusing as hell for kids.

I honestly think you need to set a precedent here. If you do this once, she may expect this every year.

And if it makes you uncomfortable then I don’t think you should allow her to play "happy family" this Christmas.

Her actions have consequences. And one of them is SHE no longer lives her former life. She can try to manipulate situations "in the interest if the kids". I think you need to set a new "standard" from the get go.

I don’t know what your thoughts are but IMO Christmas morning is for you & kids. She can make plans with her kids for either Christmas Eve or later Christmas Day.

Honestly she has some nerve to even ask to be part of your Christmas morning as though nothing happened.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:10 AM, Monday, December 11th]

We did that the first year and it was very confusing to the kids. It made them really sad. Afterward, we stuck to the standard visitation for my State (you can Google your state). My state is the day school gets out for Christmas break until Christmas Day at 2 pm on even numbered years for the Custodial parent. Then the other parent has 2pm until the Sunday before school goes back. It switched on even numbered years.
She’s gonna tell you everything she wants is best for the kids. Don’t believe her.

And keep in the back of your mind-you want every other Halloween and every other July 4 put in your custody schedule.

Keep posting on this site-there are some awesome people here who have been where you are and have excellent advice!

My parents divorced when I was about four. One of my earliest core memories is them trying to do this. The feeling attached to the memory is sadness and awkwardness. I was very little, but I caught their strained, wistful looks - and they stuck with me. From that POV, I agree with everyone else that it would be best to spare them any attempts at playing "happy family."

Let her say what she wants. The truth is, if she had cared about the kids,she wouldn't have constantly cheated,and she certainly wouldn't have left them for another man.

It's not about the kids. It's about her making herself feel like a good mom. Which she's not.

Tell her no. She can pick the kids up that afternoon, and have her own Christmas for the kids at her own place.

That's best for the kids.

When my ex and I divorced, he got the kids Christmas Eve,and they all went to Grandma's for their family's Christmas. He brought them home that night,and they stay home on Christmas, with me. It worked for us for 15 years,and we still do that today,now that they're adults. I don't suggest that with your wife. She probably wouldn't bring them home.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:22 PM, Monday, December 11th]

I would also decline. That morning is your time with your kids in your home. She can celebrate with them later that day (if dictated by your orders or arrangement) or another day. A clear delineation is likely going to best for all of you.

There may be room to do something joint later on but for this first year ... no.

That was a clearer answer than I figured. Sounds like most divorcing couples (and children) find it confusing or difficult to do joint holidays... I suppose I understand. I do think it would be confusing.

Christmas Eve is already scheduled as my day, and I have a small gathering with extended family that day. She may get grumpy about not having them on Christmas Eve nor Christmas morning, but I don't see a good way around that aside from having multiple handoffs. There isn't a parenting plan in place yet, since neither of us have officially filed and my lawyer says we'll be filing in January because of the holidays.

I also agree this is just a consequence of her decisions, but I am aiming to keep things from getting ugly and will have to be thoughtful how I approach this.

This was really good input, everyone. Thanks!

Ha, well. I did tell her we cannot do Christmas morning together, but she can come get them early, like 10 or 11, and have them early the rest of the day. This was over text, and she began RAGING at me. I should have expected it.

She doesn’t get to play happy family, but she will blame me for keeping the kids from her. I don’t think that’s a great position for me, but adhering to my truth, which is that sharing a Christmas together would be hurtful and harmful, will keep me going. But she sure got hurtful towards me in that conversation.

Save those texts.

Message her, and inform that all communication between the two of you, is to be through text,or email,only,unless there is an emergency. And that you will no longer respond to any messages that don't concern the children.

Save those messages. Give them to your attorney. They won't look good in court, should she try to pull any crap.

You did the right thing. The best thing for the kids. And you. She left. You need to work on making the home a calm,safe, stress free environment for the kids. That can't happen with her coming, and going,as she pleases.

She wants to blow up everyones life,then play happy family. That's not good for any of you.

I wonder,if part of the reason she's so angry,is because now she has to buy her own gifts for the kids? Too bad for her.

I'm sorry she was hurtful. From now on,don't read those messages. Once you realize she's hurling insults,stop looking at the texts.

I did save them. She didn't truly start throwing insults or anything, aside from saying YOU'RE OBNOXIOUS, saying I have a superiority complex, and getting really snarky when I said it was unreasonable for a spouse to have an affair, leave, and expect they'd play happy family with everyone after. She took it as an insult: "THERE IT IS," she said. "Can't have a conversation without you inserting blame and taking digs at me." I don't think it's a dig, and is relevant context...but that's just me.

I do think she is annoyed she now has to buy presents herself. And she also realizes for the 2 weeks before Christmas she's really only getting them 5 nights, and one of those nights she needs babysitting most of the day... I'd *hope* this makes her realize her lifestyle of music and partying is not conducive to raising children.

Anyway. I will admit I've had second thoughts after this conversation because she fought it so intensely. I do think it will be confusing for the kids and give them false hope, but I'm sure they'd also love to see Mom there... so it's not black and white to me.

In any case, messages have been saved. I have a lot saved for the future, just in case.

IMO if you give in to her NOW, you will be sorry down the road.

She’s clearly used to getting her own way. When you point out SHE ABANDONED YHE FAMILY she becomes irate.

These are the reasons everything is now separate. Sadly you need to set boundaries. And when the custody agreements are set by the attorneys and signed off as part of the final divorce decree, you need to start off by sticking to the agreement.

You can have right of first refusal in situations and some flexibility as time goes on, but only if she is willing to commit to the agreement at the outset and not play games.

Hopefully at some point you can both be at the same place to support your kids for events, etc. but for now you need to say no and mean it.

She won’t like it. But she blew up the family and she has to accept the consequences of her choices.

The first set of holidays are the hardest when S or D. Hopefully next year it will be easier.

TW,
As you probably have learned by now, cheaters follow the same playback. My xww did up her game a little bit. Before I moved her out she asked me if thought I would get to a point where she, assclown, his kids, me and my girls could spend the holidays together. I simply asked her "what color is the sky in your world?" Like your stbx, she wanted to come over Christmas morning "for the girls sake". I told.her she was welcome to start new traditions with them at HER place! Then I got the I should be putting the girls first speech. After her rant, I politely told.her that I have, and will always do what's best for my daughters. That is something she (and stbxw)will never be able to say. It's been 8 years now and my girls are thriving. 3 things will help keep your sanity, especially during holidays. Boundaries, boundaries, and boundaries! As someone on here said, you don't have to like them, but you do have to enforce them.

You set a boundary. If you walk it back now,it sets a precedent. She will know all she has to do is throw a fit,and she gets her way.

I've had second thoughts after this conversation because she fought it so intensely.

You're reconsidering because of her. Not because it's best for the kids. Unfortunately, the kids also need to learn what their new family will look like. Anything else will confuse them.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:37 PM, Thursday, December 14th]

Thank you for the affirmations, as well as some validation that others have gone through the same thing and other WS have said and done the same things. I have stayed strong.

It’s all true… she becomes irate when I point out she broke up her family, and considers it an affront to her. Obviously it’s the truth and not a "dig" at her. She is also very used to getting her own way… her own parents and siblings are saying so. Uh oh, WW is upset, let’s walk on eggshells. She doesn’t get her way and throws a fit. Or in my case—she doesn’t get her way and she explodes every vow and promise she ever made, or goes off and cheats, or does something selfish. It’s a pattern.

Maybe there is a point down the road we can be at the same events. But I don’t even want to mention that as a possibility.

This first holiday season is tough. I do hope it gets better.

You really are doing the right thing. Like I said above, I've been the kid in this exact situation. As little as I was (4), I easily picked up on the vibe in the room. Your kids know that mom and dad aren't happy with one another. Having mom there likely won't bring them joy, it will taint it.

Since the point is not spending Christmas together, have you considered letting her have them after you've finished with your family festivities on Christmas Eve? Is that a possibility?

I'm glad you decided to set boundaries and stick with them. I'm working on setting boundaries in my new situation as well. My IC recommended the book Set Boundaries, Find Peace. I can't fully recommend it as I'm waiting to get it from the library but want to mention it here in case it's something you want to look into reading.

Similar to you, my STBXWH asked to do the holidays together "for the kid's sake" as well. My kids are also very young (3-6) and I've been struggling with making a decision on this as well. I ended up doing Thanksgiving with his family and the kids but punted making a decision about Christmas. I did it for my kid's sake, as neither of them wanted to leave me and were very anxious and upset about spending the night with him (this is a recurring issue). On that issue, it did help as they ended up coming home with me at the end of the night! I was also trying to "play the game" while I worked to get my STBXWH to agree to terms and sign D papers (it worked!), which entailed pushing down my feelings to the extreme and being oh-so-nice. This worked for me given my STBXWH's personality. You'll have to think about the best way to approach your STBX based on her personality.

Now that things are nearly finalized, though, I do not plan to celebrate Christmas together. Similar to you, I wonder if he didn't want to have to buy Xmas presents for the kids. I'm laying down some hard boundaries now and it's not going over well. We agreed upon a timeline for my STBXWH to pick up his stuff from the house, and he's tried to push back that date. I have stuck to the original date and am refusing to get emotional or be goaded by comments like "are you threatening to steal my stuff," instead reiterating that I am asking him to stick to the original agreement.

Can't have a conversation without you inserting blame and taking digs at me

.

I'll run that through the wayward translation matrix...

I hate that we can't have a conversation without you asking me for accountability and telling me to take responsibility for my actions.

Yeah,I think that's better.

That IS better. How easy it is to start getting steamrolled by their feelings.

Actions have consequences.

Actions have consequences. Totally agree.
But are these consequences aimed at hurting her or healing you?

I’m fine with consequences! In fact, I think this modern-day kink of "everyone is a big happy family despite mom/dad having divorced and mom having a Uncle Bob who is a "friend" that stays over and dad having a "friend" called Jane who has two kids that are my "brothers" and "sister" despite Aunty Jane only having been in my life for two months…" is going to create more future work for IC’s than the actual divorce itself.

I think kids can cope with clear definitions, as long as the parents can avoid being overtly cold or curt during hand-offs. Amicable is the key word, with amicable being civil and down-to-earth rather than some faked goodwill.

So make sure you are refusing to share this day with her because of YOU and not as a tool to make her realize what losing you is going to cost her.