SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am going through my mental closure loop, and there's a lot of trauma surrounding the OP that I need to put to bed.

I have read a lot of stories here and elsewhere and it seems like most of the time the OP is upset the affair is over, but they generally just go away when told to.

The OP didn't know me, didn't owe me anything, but they still attacked me and I still have huge trauma surrounding that.

I can see that my WS allowed that to happen and is ultimately to blame, but the truth is that the OP, directly, person to person both really harmed me and really frightened me.

I sat with this for a while and listed the stuff she did to me, directly and it was kind of shocking. All listed out, I mean, I genuinely couldn't picture being capable of doing those things to someone.

What was obvious is that she didn't feel any guilt or remorse about having sex (and being the pursuer) of someone who wasn't available. And fine, I think that's poor character but I get that lots of people do it. It wasn't done TO me, and ultimately it was my WS harming me.

But beyond that, there was an ongoing, sustained attack on me that had lasting consequences for my health, wealth and wellbeing. That was her choice. I was an innocent stranger to her, and she made the decision to do that.

Mmmm. No. I don't think it was crimes of passion or heat of the moment. It was premeditated and went on for a year. I think that honestly to this person I was not a human. Her objective was to have my spouse. When he did not agree to that, her objective was to destroy me as a way to exact revenge.

There isn't any cruel thing she didn't say or do. It was designed snd executed to cause maximum damage on me and she enjoyed doing it. She even messaged him after one particularly bad attack on me to smugly gloat.

I understand there's bad people in the world. I also understand my WS brought this OP into my world.

I just think there's a part of me that also has trauma from the OP.

I had to leave social media. I stopped sharing family photos. My bowels drop when my phone buzzes. I don't trust unknown numbers.

I feel like the trauma of her is also something I need to be released from.

Did anyone else have just a vengeful and relentless OP who attacked them personally?

The ow has stalked me for over a decade.

When she wasn't getting a response from me,she messaged my adult (18 at the time) daughter. She gave her details about the affair. She sent her pics.

Occasionally I see her on my street. I live in the country. No reason for her to be here.

Occasionally, I receive gifts from her. The most recent was a book on childhood sexual trauma. I made the mistake of talking about that on here. She saw it,and sent me books. I never speak about my situation. Because of her. The one time I let my guard down,and she swoops in.

She found me here. She was having an affair with my best friend's stbxh husband (she worked with my husband, and currently worked with my friend's husband). My friend was a member here,and when I had my dday,she told me about SI. Her husband knew about it,because he was there when she told me. I think he had been asked to sign up,after their dday,I don't know. He's a serial cheater. Anyway,he told her about it. They laughed at her posts,and mine. And she joined. She taunted me. After several months,she sent me a message and it left no doubt she had invaded my safe space. She wanted me to fight it out here. I refused. She played the part of an abused woman. I watched as people here held her hand and felt sorry for her. Her husband was the sweetest man. Also, they were living in separate states at the time,due to his job. So I knew he wasn't anywhere near her when she came here,claiming to have spent a terrifying night at home.

She calls me using burner phones,and spoofed numbers.

The gifts she sends are bought using a gift card Visa.

I've had no legal recourse. I've tried. She's very good at covering her tracks.

I ignored her completely,for years. Until she involved my child.

I still have yet to speak a word to her. I assume she hates me because I found out about the affair, and he dumped her like the pile of shit she is.

I don't necessarily feel she has traumatized me. She has angered me. I have information on her that would destroy her personally and professionally. And I intend to expose her at some point. I look forward to that day.

I'm sorry you have had to endure her abuse. Are you in IC? IC helped me to feel stronger. Mad is better than sad.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:09 PM, Thursday, September 14th]

My WH AP was finding me on every social media platform no matter what account I blocked. She also works in the same industry as me and has tried to smear my name continuously. She's a nasty, miserable human being. OBS has kept her more in check lately and told her she's out of she continues her bullshit but we shall see.

That sounds completely awful :( I don't really want revenge or anything. I don't care about her at all.

I suppose its just odd for someone to hate you so much just for existing.

The best revenge is keeping your head up and loving your life the way you want to.

It eats away at AP that I simply ignore her. Any attention is better than no attention for people like her.

I didn't want to strike back either. Truth is,she was/is more like an annoying fly,buzzing in my ear.

Then she involved MY CHILD. My child had to go to therapy because of the messages she received. She has images of her stepfather,the man who raised her since she was 3,in her head that she never should have seen. I read what ow said to her. It was vicious.

Some people can move on from that with no problem. Not me. Not when you hurt my kid.

I've tried the "living well is the best revenge" route. I did just that for years. It didn't stop her. The week my daughter turned 18, the ow attacked her with those details and images. She continues to attack me.

Ignoring,living well,etc, may work with most people. But,with some people,you have to confront. I intend to do so.

I am not going to physically harm her in any way. What I will do is 100% legal. I've already spoken my attorney.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:20 PM, Thursday, September 14th]

I wonder why it's a thing for APs to act like this to the spouse and family?

I understand rejection might need painful or even make you very angry, but to go after innocent people to inflict revenge seems like unusual psychology for me.

What link is there between being an AP and perhaps being vengeful, cruel and so on? Also obsessive.

Hey MCC!

Partner poaching is a real thing. AP in my sitch was a card-carrying partner poacher (multiple marriages/divorces) - she wanted my H AND his half of our $$$/nest egg. I'm not blaming her exclusively. My H has agency. At each fork in the road he chose the route that led straight to her bed. He was not an innocent lamb! But, she deliberately set out to interfere in my marriage and family. Yeah, yeah she didn't "didn't know me, didn't owe me anything" but she INTENDED ME HARM. She thankfully slunk away after NC. Lucky me.

they still attacked me and I still have huge trauma surrounding that.

Of course you have trauma as a direct result of her bunny-boiler behavior. This woman harassed you on social media and terrorized you via phone! It's okay to be RIGHTEOUSLY angry at her! Anger at the AP is absolutely appropriate and warranted as long as the betraying partner is in the hot seat where they belong. The betrayer and the AP are BOTH responsible for the A. The ultimate goal is to not hang onto the anger - to "put the trauma to bed." In the meantime, are you documenting the harassment? How about a lawyer sending her a cease and desist letter? Continued hyper vigilance around her crazy behaviors can make you sick, both physically and mentally. And, it's possible AP harassment could escalate if not addressed.

What link is there between being an AP and perhaps being vengeful, cruel and so on? Also obsessive.

As a matter of fact, YES there's lots of legit research demonstrating links between mate poaching (being an AP) and "dark triad/Machiavellianism" behaviors (being vengeful, cruel and so on). To save myself some typing, I've cut and pasted summaries of a few study results. There's additional related reports cited in the research summarized below if you want to plug the researcher's names into your search engine and take a look.

"A 2022 study conducted by Kardum and colleagues revealed that heterosexual men who engage in poaching the mates of other men tend to do so due to low conscientiousness and high Machiavellianism, goal-directed behavior related to being manipulative, insincere, callous and self-centered. Men who were successful at poaching also showed higher levels of psychopathy and lower levels of agreeableness. Meanwhile, women who poached mates successfully tended to be more extroverted, psychopathic, and exhibited openness. Men’s psychopathy and Machiavellianism also most consistently predicted poaching experiences in both men and women. Darker personality traits can also affect whether someone is more likely to be more receptive to mate poaching and be more "willing" to be poached. Another study by Kardum and fellow researchers (2015) used a sample of university students to investigate whether Big Five or Dark Triad traits (narcissism, psychopathy, Machiavellianism) predicted mate poaching behaviors. It discovered that Dark Triad traits predicted mate poaching behaviors, especially poaching success in men. Dark triad traits also predicted being targeted by a poacher for women, whereas it better predicted being successfully poached in men."

And, research asserts mate poaching is part of a larger, extensive and harmful pattern. As you said, true mate poaching is not "crimes of passion or heat of the moment. It was premeditated."

"Another study by Belu and Sullivan showed that those who were in a "poached" relationship had a more "extensive history" of poached relationships and that these poached relationships tended to be of lower quality than that of non-poached relationships. We’ve all heard the phrase, "A real man (or woman) can never be stolen." While that may be true, that doesn’t mean partner poachers won’t try regardless of whether or not their intended target reciprocates. When an affair occurs, both the person who cheated and the one they cheated with (if they knew about the relationship) are at fault, especially the one who betrayed their own relationship. But when it comes to an individual who has a pattern of partner poaching, even if the person they pursue doesn’t return their affections, they will continue this destructive pattern with others."

I liked this opinion:

"It is clear partner or mate poaching is not a one-time steamy crush, a rare incident of uncontrollable lust, or an embarrassing mistake: for some partner poachers, pursuing people already in relationships gives them a sense of power, a rush of control, a feeling of sadistic pleasure and victory that they’ve one-upped their perceived "opponent," even though that person was never competing with them in the first place. Psychopathic partner poachers may attempt to infiltrate the relationships of others in disturbing ways, escalating with a boldness and callousness that has no regard for the spouse who is terrorized. They may even attempt to flaunt their newfound romance in the victim’s face (thankfully, research confirms it’s bound to be a low-quality relationship if the partner is successfully poached). Mate poaching is a pattern of harmful behavior that is morally transgressive and can be invasive and violating for the innocent parties who are victimized. It should be taken seriously and all parties who participate should be held accountable for their behavior."

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 1:24 AM, Friday, September 15th]

Another study by Belu and Sullivan showed that those who were in a "poached" relationship had a more "extensive history" of poached relationships and that these poached relationships tended to be of lower quality than that of non-poached relationships. We’ve all heard the phrase, "A real man (or woman) can never be stolen." While that may be true, that doesn’t mean partner poachers won’t try regardless of whether or not their intended target reciprocates. When an affair occurs, both the person who cheated and the one they cheated with (if they knew about the relationship) are at fault, especially the one who betrayed their own relationship. But when it comes to an individual who has a pattern of partner poaching, even if the person they pursue doesn’t return their affections, they will continue this destructive pattern with others.

The AP in our situation was definitely a partner-poacher. H found out a year after DDay that the whole time AP was in an EA/PA with my H, she was also in an EA with his friend/coworker, who was also married. She became a chameleon who presented herself as the perfect mate for my H based on things that he told her. I think she just wanted SOMEONE to take care of her.

The A ended over 19 years ago, but she still posts things on Pinterest about unrequited love and the one that got away. Literally almost a thousand memes. And she married again five years after the A ended, so I find it especially weird. I suspect that the memes are about H, and I suspect that she either wants him to see them and know she still carries a torch, or she wants me to see them and be hurt, or both. We both just think that she's pathetic.

Thanks for sharing this stuff.

Her harrassment of me ended a couple of years ago thankfully. Although it was so bad that I still have that hypervigilance. WS and I are separated now, possibly divorcing, but I dont think deep down the fear of her will ever go away.

I'm glad you mentioned the dark triad stuff. It makes sense. I remember about two years ago (sorry if this is triggering) but I spent the morning in the freezing cold thinking I was going to jump in front of a train.

That's something I've not said to anyone but it was one of the worst days of this.

In the end, the police came and they sat with me for a long time and I told them about the stuff that OW was doing to me. They told me it was criminal, and that if I wanted to go back to the station and fill out a complaint that she would be in serious trouble.

I didn't do it.

I feel like OW sort of got away with all of it. She said she was emotional and in pain and somehow garnered sympathy from mutual friends.

I feel really violated by that.

I think, independent of WS, She also abused me. She also damaged me.

I am going through my mental closure loop, and there's a lot of trauma surrounding the OP that I need to put to bed.

I sat with this for a while and listed the stuff she did to me, directly and it was kind of shocking. All listed out, I mean, I genuinely couldn't picture being capable of doing those things to someone.

I think, independent of WS, She also abused me. She also damaged me.

I feel really violated by that.

Looks like you were in pure survival mode following the A. Had to be to make it through each day! No time to reflect, to get angry etc. Surviving the trauma was the goal. Two years later you are putting together the puzzle pieces to understand what she really did to you. You see the completed puzzle. Yes, she abused you. Yes, she damaged you. Feelings are bubbling up. Good news is you are stronger now - ready to put the trauma in the past.

I purposefully mentioned righteous anger for a reason. Sometimes, a BS feels (or is told by a therapist or religious/spiritual dogma) that negative feelings towards the AP are "misplaced" or that they must move precipitously towards "forgiving" those who wronged them. If that works to get a BS through this nightmare, great. But sometimes avoiding that RIGHTEOUS anger - burying negative feelings towards AP because it's the "right thing to do" or "they didn't make vows to me, my partner did" etc. can come back to bite a BS. In your case (maybe?) there wasn't the bandwidth for anger at AP because you were struggling to maintain your sanity in the face of her harassment, false R with your partner, and the inappropriate responses of people who were supposedly friends. Wow, this crap was coming at you from just about everywhere! Righteous anger is warranted. It's RIGHTEOUS. Allowing yourself to feel that warranted anger doesn't automatically mean seeking revenge or striking back. Or confrontation. She wronged you! She's a horrible human being! Damn it, it's okay to feel ANGRY.

Maybe part of putting to bed the trauma she inflicted on you includes getting angry at her. Feel the feels. Break some ice plates. Punch a punching bag. Yell obscenities about her in your car with the doors and windows closed. Talk it through with IC, try EMDR. Dump those Switzerland friends if you haven't already done so. Then move on. Holding onto that anger is not the goal. Acknowledging it and feeling it so you can FINALLY put the trauma behind you is the goal. IMO, for most people, getting angry is part of the process. It certainly was for me. Of course, this is my opinion. An opinion formed from my experiences and what I've seen here on SI. Maybe you already got angry and put it behind you, and I'm reading too much into some of your comments? Hope this helps, MCC.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:35 AM, Friday, September 15th]

My wife’s AP was a friend. He works for the home builder that my wife’s late father taught to build houses and also walked her down the aisle at our wedding. I have not gone out of my way to expose him, but he is a POS who is still continually finding women in our area to screw. I on the other hand am an elephant. I never forget. I’ll patiently wait for day the opportunity to fry his ass will come to fruition and I will happily dole out that serving. Sorry, I’m not a mean hearted person, but someone who continually pursues vulnerable women and wrecks homes needs his day of reckoning. It’s not who I want to be, but there are other undamaged families who may not have to endure this heartache if he was to be exposed. If you choose to enter my world and wreak havoc, be prepared for the consequences. I pride myself in helping those in need, but vultures I cannot stand.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 11:50 PM, Thursday, September 14th]

I didn't get the closure I would have liked. My WH quit while she was out and the affair was exposed shortly after. She later created a fake email account and sent an email stating she needed to talk as she might kill herself. He unblocked her on social media and covertly talked to her after he promised NC. He claims he told her to never contact him again and to never come near his family. She has a different version, maybe the truth is in the middle.

Since then, I have had the urge to confront her but I don't. Why? Because her OBS let it slip that it bothers her immensely that I've blocked her.

[This message edited by CFme923 at 12:18 AM, Friday, September 15th]

"Did anyone else have just a vengeful and relentless OP who attacked them personally?"

Short answer is yes. My long answer is pretty long. We are not talking about people who are particularly enlightened and conscioused types. More self-serving than altruistic that is certain. We have a conscious and empathy. I think that made it more difficult for me.

I also have had to deal with a persistent bunch of nasty online and in real life cheater supporters.

These types tended to be low on conscious too and/or to somehow justify what they said and did to me on the premise that I deserved to be cheated on because I was a bad wife.

I am very sorry the infidelity brought the OP into your life. Sending ((virtual hugs)). This is difficult stuff.

Did anyone else have just a vengeful and relentless OP who attacked them personally?

Yup. I will not go into every detail of what happened post dday 2 when ow finally realised she was just an intruder into our marriage and she wasn’t going to get herself an off the shelf husband.

Suffice to say that she had a visit from the police at one point as she was becoming very threatening on a personal level. I remember telling the police I feel threatened and thinking they’d laugh at me, to which they’ve replied "most murders are due to love triangles and we take these complaints seriously". That brought it home to my WH. Oh and she went through an HR investigation when she decided to access our personal information and post it on social media.

What I wanted to say to you: take your time to process all this. It is baffling when you realise that a complete stranger decides that you’re public enemy number 1 when THEY inserted themselves in your life in the first place. This woman decided I was the worse person on Earth, yet she never met me. On the other hand I knew FACTS about her such as her sleeping with married men, trying to break families, even trying to insert herself into my daughter’s life but she insisted I was the bad one in the story. Not WH (although he did became the worst once he refused to leave me. Apparently she’d have never stayed with a liar. Lol. He was a liar only when he lied to her, she didn’t realise he was a liar whilst you know, he was lying to his wife in order to sleep with her). Go figure.

To reassure you: there’ll be a time in the future when you’ll realise just how irrelevant she is. Ultimately there are crazy and unstable people everywhere, it is our partners that, instead of protecting us, brought these people into our lives. I remember once, after installing cameras realising she must have turned up at night time and looked through our downstairs windows, thinking how I fear I’ll end up being ran down by a car or stabbed and the person responsible for this at its core isn’t this unstable unprincipled woman with no morals, but the man I loved who brought her into our lives. There was a lot to work through once I have reached that point.

She has no importance in my life anymore, except me getting the odd frustration when I feel the world is too small (we live relatively close and I do worry our kids may end up at the same party one day).

Did anyone else have just a vengeful and relentless OP who attacked them personally?

Yes. Although LTAP was out of state (6 hours away) she would visit frequently under the guise of "girls trips".

On DDay1 (before I told OBS) she threatened suicide - and I learned from OBS after DDays 2/3 that was her go-to for manipulation

On DDay2/3 where I found they'd gone underground and finally informed OBS she made threats to me [via WH] in writing. I went right to my local precinct where while they didn't have enough for a Protective Order (and state lines were involved) they did put me under a watch, our house on a frequent drive by rotation and made sure the Sheriff's Office and the State Police had her name, description and vehicle information. They did call OBS and confirm she left the house [he'd kicked her out but a month or so later did the Walk of Shame and slinked back home].

Back in 2021 when I discovered she'd made several fake profiles cyberstalking WH and trying to reach back out as well as many sick attempts at trying to duplicate our lives (for legal matters I can't delve into them here) we hired an attorney to send what the attorney called a "heavy handed" Cease and Desist letter. He also called her a psycho bunny boiler after spending a while meeting with WH.

Basically if she so much as even looks at anything we do we can press to have charges filed. So far, she's been quiet [or at least undiscovered]. It only a matter of time. I've had multiple professionals (counselors, attorney and law enforcement) tell us the one of two things will happen. She will try again and get caught/prosecuted OR she will find another object of her affection. As WH and her had a history from their youth everyone is betting on the first.

Essentially I live my life knowing I'm being cyberstalked and perhaps IRL as well. Although she's out of state, she has friends in the area - those that aided in the LTA. I'm sure they are good toadies and report back to her on the regular.

All I can do is live my best life leaving a trail of glitter in my wake.

Looks like you were in pure survival mode following the A. Had to be to make it through each day! No time to reflect, to get angry etc. Surviving the trauma was the goal. Two years later you are putting together the puzzle pieces to understand what she really did to you. You see the completed puzzle. Yes, she abused you. Yes, she damaged you. Feelings are bubbling up. Good news is you are stronger now - ready to put the trauma in the past.

I think I was in survival mode yes, but I was also scared of her and so was WS so I guess we both allowed her to bully us. I spoke to him last week about this thread and he told me that after one really long episode of basically torturing me, she walked up to him at work and said "she hates you now too". We discussed how bad it was an he was very apologetic for not adequately protecting me from it, as well as for bringing her into my life. I felt soothed a lot by that.

I purposefully mentioned righteous anger for a reason. Sometimes, a BS feels (or is told by a therapist or religious/spiritual dogma) that negative feelings towards the AP are "misplaced" or that they must move precipitously towards "forgiving" those who wronged them. If that works to get a BS through this nightmare, great. But sometimes avoiding that RIGHTEOUS anger - burying negative feelings towards AP because it's the "right thing to do" or "they didn't make vows to me, my partner did" etc. can come back to bite a BS.

I hear this all the time (not to me but generally) and personally think it's crap. I think BS's should be angry at whoever they want to be, and as this thread shows APs can be vicious and deserve accountability.

In your case (maybe?) there wasn't the bandwidth for anger at AP because you were struggling to maintain your sanity in the face of her harassment, false R with your partner, and the inappropriate responses of people who were supposedly friends.

I think we were both being normal and not airing out dirty laundry, but she wasn't. For example there were incidents where she had to literally be removed from property by the police for domestic violence and would then go and cry to people and make herself the victim. I was annoyed by that a lot - but feel less so now.

Wow, this crap was coming at you from just about everywhere! Righteous anger is warranted. It's RIGHTEOUS. Allowing yourself to feel that warranted anger doesn't automatically mean seeking revenge or striking back. Or confrontation. She wronged you! She's a horrible human being! Damn it, it's okay to feel ANGRY.

Thank you, I think the validation is ultimately all I really needed. I don't need revenge or justice or anything. Really just to speak and be heard and you and WS have given me that. I am working through all this, and I guess all the things I felt not able to do earlier, I am doing now.

It helps. Thank you.

The A ended over 19 years ago, but she still posts things on Pinterest about unrequited love and the one that got away. Literally almost a thousand memes. And she married again five years after the A ended, so I find it especially weird. I suspect that the memes are about H, and I suspect that she either wants him to see them and know she still carries a torch, or she wants me to see them and be hurt, or both. We both just think that she's pathetic.

Ugh I had this too. Ultimately we both left FB, but the endless song lyrics and pretence at some deep relationship that didn't exist was nauseating. I remember not too long after DDay when he had literally told this woman he loved me and to leave him alone she got together a lot of photos of him and made a collage and posted it publicly. A COLLAGE. Of literally someone elses partner. She was a 52 year old woman FGS. It was so cringey.

I wouldn't even make a collage of my OWN spouse FGS!

[This message edited by MintChocChip at 1:30 AM, Friday, September 22nd]

Yup. I will not go into every detail of what happened post dday 2 when ow finally realised she was just an intruder into our marriage and she wasn’t going to get herself an off the shelf husband.

Yep, tough times.

Suffice to say that she had a visit from the police at one point as she was becoming very threatening on a personal level.

Same here!

Oh and she went through an HR investigation when she decided to access our personal information and post it on social media.

Literally same here! She got in serious trouble at work which was ultimately what stopped the stalking. And she also accessed the files to get all my contact information :(

What I wanted to say to you: take your time to process all this. It is baffling when you realise that a complete stranger decides that you’re public enemy number 1 when THEY inserted themselves in your life in the first place.

Yep. Which is the point of the thread I guess, because separate from infidelity that is such a weird experience to live through.

This woman decided I was the worse person on Earth, yet she never met me.

I don't think AP hated me (although in messages she would say a lot of bitchy stuff like "Oh MCC with her perfect body and lovely skin" and "oh MCC is a PRINCESS go run to her" but I wasn't bothered by that because she was clearly jealous, which is fine - but the truth that weirded me out was that I don't think to her I was even a human being. I was a nothing, an ant to be crushed for her to get what she wanted. She did not consider me an innocent human being who she was traumatising and making sick and damaging for life. It was all about winning.

To reassure you: there’ll be a time in the future when you’ll realise just how irrelevant she is.

I am getting there slowly!

Ultimately there are crazy and unstable people everywhere, it is our partners that, instead of protecting us, brought these people into our lives.

Painful but true.

I remember once, after installing cameras realising she must have turned up at night time and looked through our downstairs windows, thinking how I fear I’ll end up being ran down by a car or stabbed and the person responsible for this at its core isn’t this unstable unprincipled woman with no morals, but the man I loved who brought her into our lives. There was a lot to work through once I have reached that point.

I clearly remember a period I knew she was in the neighbourhood and I wouldn't go outside because I thought she might actually kill me. It is true, that it was the one we loved who brought this to out life.

She has no importance in my life anymore, except me getting the odd frustration when I feel the world is too small (we live relatively close and I do worry our kids may end up at the same party one day).

I am genuinely getting there on this. Sharing here, as well as talking to WS about it made me realise a) she's insignificant to HIM now and b) A lot of people have experienced such things.

It gave me a lot of peace

MCC. That definitely made me smile about your skin & beauty. She is terrified of you and you should rock on. But I know that is making light of what is a severe trauma. I am so very sorry. Seeing the number of people who have been through the exact same thing from some of these women is terrifying. For certain there is trauma specifically related to that OP.

Hellfire. Ugh. It makes me so angry on your behalf. I remember reading some of this on your posts before. I am so glad you rose above. No person should ever be put through that.

CF. Yes, you are right about being ignored being their biggest fear. Their irrelevance is the one thing they cannot abide.

BB. In my case too the AP was very much about the money. I sometimes feel badly saying this to my husband because it assumes no one would want to be with him for his other good qualities. Not that I should care as this is an A. But, even thought there are other good reasons to want to be with him, for her it was definitely the money. So pathetic. Thanks for sharing the data, particularly about women and psychopathy. It is interesting that despite all the many active male BSs on this site it is the female BSs that seem to have mostly faced these extroverted toxic APs. I agree that the fact our WS didn’t protect us is disheartening.

CMB You are showing it is not exclusive to women. I get it when you say it is not in your nature to be vindictive but some people are just so dangerous to the world at large.

She hawk, Luna & chaos. This just goes on and on. How can there be so many toxic people.

It has been proven to us beyond any shadow of a doubt that there are evil people out there who will deliberately target us. My husband will say he must technically be as bad. But I remember vividly how he felt toward the OBS. He had injured this person for certain but he was always mortified by his actions. He was and is embarrassed and remorseful toward them. He wishes them nothing ill and would perfectly understand if they wanted to attack him. Not so the OW who I like to call Trailer, short for Trailer Trash T. Anyway, I digress. She has never had even a smidgen of remorse. She has verbally attacked me as recently as a year ago. Over the past seven years she has endangered my children, landed herself in a mental hospital and needed to be fired twice from the same company (because she had no shame about trying to rejoin a company where every person knew exactly what she did). The day I showed up at the medical office and screamed at top volume in front of everyone she had ever worked with for 20 years about how she was destroying families and doing disgusting things in their own offices she just proceeded about the rest of her day as if nothing ever happened. When I found her in the woods with my husband at first she ran off but then immediately returned to ask me to let her keep her job as my husbands secretary because she didn't want to have to go be be someone else’s secretary. She truly had no understanding why her hooking up with her boss should be a problem to me.

They are just amazing. It is impressive the level of delusion.

For me I needed to find other good people in the world. Whether my husband and I stay together or not I feel really healed from the Trailer trauma because I know she is not the norm. She is not normal. I’m not even sure she is a normal cheater. I don’t want to confront her because I find her character so revolting I wouldn’t want to be within a hundred feet of her. Just ew gross.