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This past week while my wife and I were having a mild run of the mill argument she said a phrase which triggered me. It was one she used a lot when she was trying to gaslight me and convince everyone around us I was crazy and paranoid her "friendship" was an affair. Anyways, when she said it a switch flipped and I lost my shit. I felt physically and emotionally like I did after finding out they were communicating again. Classic PTSD response. I pulled it back together but it took me about 6 hours to really come down from it.

Thing is, my teen saw me burst into a rage. Not something I want. The next day I explained to my wife the response. She seemed to understand, but then later made a critical comment about me causing a scene the day before.

My fist thought was "if the kids knew what you put me through they wouldn’t see me as the jerk and you as the victim". At least they would have context for my outburst. But, you can’t really tell kids their mom was a cheating liar. Then I thought to myself, I didn’t decide for her to have an affair. I wasn’t in on it, but I get to keep it a secret. And keep it a secret where it acts against me. It almost makes me feel like I’m in on it, helping her and him hide their affair. Has anyone else thought that before? I’m sure someone has. Obviously I’m not going to tell the kids. There’s only downside for them, and I don’t need the upside to me. Just wanted to share and see what others have felt.

[This message edited by Legatus at 3:50 AM, Tuesday, November 11th]

A few months after my exww and I separated, she told our 10yo son what she'd done. I was surprised to hear that she'd confessed it and relieved at the same time.

My son and I have talked about it a few times. I've never tried to demonize her to him. I want him to have a good relationship with her. I have, however, tried to explain to him how painful infidelity can be in the hopes that he will never do anything like it and never accept it in his life.

You can choose to hide it - or you can choose to teach them.

Legatus,

Boy, do I know what you are going through. I’m sure I am not alone, that there are plenty of us who struggled deeply with the secrecy of the affair making us, the betrayed appear to be the cause of the family disruption. I did write about this a week or so ago titled "I became a liar". You are in a terrible position, and I fall on the side of there is no right or wrong decision as to telling the kids. I chose not to and have never regrated that decision.

In my thinking, and you may get sincere, different points of view on this, but it to would be best coming from your wife than from you. It makes it easier for it to be a teachable moment. If you decide to tell them, I’d caution you to closely inspect your motives. Make sure your disclosure isn’t out of revenge (Unless that is what you want.) for that would be a different type of a teaching moment.

Astrisk

My kids know in an age appropriate way that their mother lied to me in a way that nearly ended in divorce.

I'm sure they have their opinions on that, but if I can forgive her and she can earn my trust back, that should be good enough for them too.

Hi Legatus

I read your original thread and always wondered what swayed you to reconcilation. I hope you are doing well generally since then and have been happy with your choice.

I'm not well placed to comment on children, I don't have my own and it's still to be decided if that will change anytime soon. I will say I was fully aware of my Father's cheating from the age of 10. I personally think if anything it did strengthen my morals.

That being said the older I got, the more I resented my father and ultimately decided to cut him out my life. I don't think he was ever Dad material. By all accounts was very generous money wise, so I guess that helped me having my main male role model growing up Basil Faulty.

I just think on the whole, you should be as honest with your kids as possible. They'll know something is and has been up. Kids always know.

How old are your kids? I think you are too lightly setting aside the idea that they should know. They clearly know something is off in the house. They likely have a mixture of blaming themselves (as kids do) and you (as you are the one acting strangely). I see no benefits to that to anyone other than your WW.

Coincidentally, I just had a talk with my kid's therapist about a very similar situation - I raised my voice more than usual last weekend, and our teen got upset about it. We haven't told her about the affair, but she knows we're getting divorced.

Depending on the age, maturity, and emotional resilience of your kids, it's best to give them enough information to provide some context. At the least, you should acknowledge to them that you got angry with your wife, and it's because of something else that happened between you two in the past, but you're trying to work things out with her. So: truth, but not necessarily the whole truth. You can also tell them that your wife is trying to make amends for what happened.

The therapist pointed out that we do no favors to our children by shielding them from conflict. What they need to see is how we handle family conflict in a way that allows us to continue having a relationship with the other person. People get angry and sad. There are boundaries to those behaviors, and apologies are due when lines are crossed, but expressing those feelings can also be healthy and justified.

Legatus

You have been teaching your kids what a crap marriage is for more than 4 years -

Read your post started in 2021 and the below posts still ring true and pertinent:

The1stWife ( Guide #58832)posted at 7:53 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

I’m sorry but you should demand your $ back from her counselor. He or she has to be an idiot to believe the "just friends" routine.

It’s people like that who give therapists a bad reputation!

Most people with half a brain would see through that behavior.

Maybe you should tell your wife she can hero her friend and her counselor but you have decided to leave the three ring circus of a marriage.

The1stWife ( Guide #58832)posted at 5:26 PM on Monday, July 26th, 2021

My theory is they were "smart" enough to figure out how to cheat —- they can be smart enough on their own to figure out how to R.

If they actually really want to R.

Justsomeguy ( member #65583)posted at 3:48 PM on Monday, July 26th, 2021

One question that I asked myself just before choosing to pull the plug, was given what i know about my STBXWW's character and history, would i date her if she was a stranger? I mean, if I met her, and after a couple of dates, I knew about her cheating, lying, attempts to humiliate her spouse, lack of basic empathy, yadda, yadda, yadda. You get the point.

There are rare waywards on this site which are truly remorseful and self aware, and these people give us hope that real change can happen, but the reality is that this type of work is long and hard, and not realistic for many people. Just look at the weight loss industry as an example. Losing weight requires a tectonic shift in behaviour, not just a 10 week program. Sure, people can white knuckle it for a bit, but what is the actual success rate long term?

My STBXWW is currently stalling the D process because she is spinning into depression. How do I know this? Because she constantly gas the need to tell me, confusing me with someone who gives a shit. She wants my pity because she had always gotten it before.

Last month, my daughter (18yrs) asked if her mother and I would ever be friends and do family stuff together again. I had to explain that I only allow high quality people in my life now and her mother just didnt measures up. Maybe if she did the work to change, one day it might be different, but I have solid boundaries now in order to heal. She understood, mostly because she has had some experiences with toxic and broken people, who have taken a real toll on her.

In the end, most people cannot change. They might shift things around a bit or alter how their character manifests, but the core remains. Even after his Damascus moment, Paul wrote about the struggle between his new self and core behaviours. It's a fundamental battle we all wage. Hell, I'm a fixer and even though I know that, I cannot change it. I just build in strategies to help me navigate it.

Your WW is who she is. Boil down the reasons you are attached to her and weigh them. Kids, time, feelings you once had, and then compare that to which she has demonstrated herself to be. It can be a chilling thing.

Justsomeguy ( member #65583)posted at 5:39 PM on Friday, July 30th, 2021

Sorry OP, but unless your WW has her Danascus moment, you are headed to D, unless you are willing to rugsweep. From your posts, it seems your WW is missing some key character stuff that makes a well rounded adult, like empathy, personal responsibility, compassion...etc. It's funny just how common it is for waywards to be missing these key pieces.

Again, I fall in the cheating-is-always-a-dealbreaker camp, and if there is to be a new relationship again, it is up to the cheater to move heavan and earth to rebuild it. Anything else is substandard. Hell, if you removed all of the entanglements, would you even bother to date someone who put so little into a relationship? Could you imagine the dating profile? Known cheater, liar, who lacks empathy, compassion and basic human decency, but is great at making cards...yup, that's the gal I want!

Step back, and try to consider what type of life you want. What dou you want if to look like in ten or twenty years? And can you reasonable see your WW fitting into that without you compromising? Don't project a version of her that you hope might happen, but the real her, the one you have white knuckled it with. If not, then file now, not to save your M, but to save yourself. It may be that she pulls her head out of her ass and grows, but you win either way. Either way, you get out of infidelity.

Butforthegrace ( member #63264)posted at 3:01 AM on Tuesday, August 3rd, 2021

not in a rush to try to shock her into changing because I’ve filed for divorce. A lot of the advice I’ve received on this forum has been to force her hand in some way with the end goal being her snapping out of the fantasy and changing.

I hope nobody on SI has given you this sort of advice. It's possibly the worst advice that could be given. The mantra here is "you cannot control her, and you cannot control the outcome, you can only control you." Anybody suggesting otherwise is selling you snake oil. D is not a gambit to catalyze her to do something. You file D because you want to be divorced.

Concerning the passive statement, I don’t at all feel like I’ve been passive.

Trust me, you have been and are still being passive. You're living in infidelity, and you are taking no affirmative steps to get out of infidelity. My friend, you are almost a trope for passive. The definition of passive.

Many others posted to your thread and many, like you, have a much greater tolerance for unpleasantness (bordering on sadistic) that I.

When your kids move out, ask them what they think of your marital relationship.

Get "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book and read it.

Look up Spaceghost0007 thread here for best way to "get out of infidelity"

Amazing you appear to like to suffer - for five years or more?

This past week while my wife and I were having a mild run of the mill argument she said a phrase which triggered me. It was one she used a lot when she was trying to gaslight me and convince everyone around us I was crazy and paranoid her "friendship" was an affair. Anyways, when she said it a switch flipped and I lost my shit. I felt physically and emotionally like I did after finding out they were communicating again. Classic PTSD response. I pulled it back together but it took me about 6 hours to really come down from it.

I completely relate to this. I hate having to keep this from my kids. I’m close with them and yet there is now a huge wall between us because they can never know this crucial part of who I am. Yet I don’t want to tell them because my knowledge of my dad’s affair really messed me up in adolescence and young adulthood. I don’t want them going through that. They certainly know that we really really fought about some things and little statements here or there may have revealed more than I realize. It is a mess. My husband would like to tell them all the truth so I can’t fully blame him for the keeping the lie part. Although of course if he didnt do what he did there wouldn’t be a lie to keep.

I’m sorry you are going through this. It is hard. I agree with the idea that there is likely not a right answer. Just two paths to choose from, each of which is difficult in its own way.