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As I've mentioned several times before my WH still works at the same place as the OW. He's applied for 50+ jobs in the past 2 years since DD, starting immediately the day after (he agreed with no protest to change work place asap) but he's in a very particular field (I can't say more to keep privacy) so the supply of jobs is extremely limited. He's applied out of city and also out of country, but so far, to countries close to where we are now situated and travel would be quick and easy to see family etc. No luck. He has an extremely special set of skills that is excellent for his field, but they do not translate to any other field so changing fields would mean him working in a supermarket etc and we would need to give up our entire lifestyle, it would be a major blow for the entire family economically as he is the main bread winner although I do work full time.
He has started to feel very stressed that he hasn't managed to keep his promise to switch jobs and obviously, my stress on the issue has been growing by the months as I've started feeling like we can never get him out of that office building. (They have zero contact work wise, on separate floors, he avoids all functions, avoids the lunch area when he knows her floor is eating etc. He has seen her a couple of times from afar in these 2+ years, got dragged into one group conversation in a hallway where she was by another person, he disclosed these incidents to me).

Now there's an overseas job within his company that he would be qualified to apply for. The problem is, it's on the other side of the globe. I don't mind moving, cities or even countries, but this is another level. It's a whole other continent, part of the world. I have an elderly sickly mother in her 80s, this is the type of move that would mean should she fall ill suddenly, I would probably not even make it home to say good bye. We have kids. Oldest is early twenties living with partner and would obviously not be coming along. We would see that child once a year. The two other ones are mid-upper teens. They are not happy about this suggestion obviously. I am so torn whether he should apply or not. There is a significant chance (/threat depending on how you take it) that he would get the job and we would need to move within a few months. It's a 4 year placement. He really wants to apply, sees it as a new beginning for us, a chance to 'start over', get away from OW and all that reminds of his A in our tiny little town. But for me, it's more of a threat. I, like most BWs, do not trust him yet, if ever. I don't feel completely safe with him. So leaving everything and everyone that IS safe, with the most unsafe person in my life at the moment, feels scary. Stupid even? I'd have to quit my job, and at least until I found something over there (if I even do) I would be reliant on him in every way, this scares me considering what he has done. It has been a lifelong dream of ours to some day live in another country, however the timing is not great. On the other hand, it might be one of the few chances we ever get to get him out of the same building as OW.
Thoughts?

It sounds like the cons outweigh the pros. It's okay to change your mind and decide that the status quo works better for you than uprooting your life. I know he's excited, and probably looking forward to relief from the constant vigilance against contact with AP; I think I'd tell him that you support this type of endeavor, but not right now. Wait until the kids are grown and you don't have to worry about your mom anymore. And you'll have more time with him to decide if he's trustworthy enough to follow to the other side of the world.

My H had the same level of contact with his COW AP. They had very minimal work contact, but were in the same building. It's not ideal, but it can be done. Has your H done well with NC over the last two years?

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:42 PM, Thursday, March 6th]

Has your H done well with NC over the last two years?

As far as I know. These days I no longer trust anything 100% that I can't verify myself in any significant way, but I haven't found anything suggesting broken no contact for the entire period since DD.

I think it would have the opposite effect by applying for this job. It would add more stress and unhappiness to your lives — especially for the kids who need to be uprooted.

If he’s doing all he can as far as no contact is concerned, then I think you may have to agree to your H staying at his current job. For now. Until maybe something else pops up.

This opportunity doesn’t appear to be a good fit for your family and the only plus would be he’s not in the same building as the OW.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 12:53 PM, Friday, March 7th]

Just thinking - the "mantras" surrounding affair recovery and/or "survivinginfidelity"

The "must quit job" - the idea being to avoid AP? Well, so what? Next job could have a much better AP!

Drop the idea that he is going to re-cheat. Try counseling for him and YOU -
No matter what, he is going to be out of your sight a lot as life goes on. Up to you and him to re-establish trust.

Also, for him to cheat - he has something "broken" inside - that needs fixing. Changing job won't fix. . .

Scary thought - sometimes people drift apart as life happens and then one (broken of course) justifies their cheating "because I deserve better." - the point being you and he need to figure out if that is what (whole or in part?) is wrong with him.

Someone with perfect integrity would just divorce - then find "that better mate" - he failed that integrity test.

wishing you luck moving forward -

It is so interesting how different people’s perspectives are. Obviously you are the true judge of what is right for you, right for your husband, right for your marriage and right for your family. Before I read other people’s posts I had planned to say that I would definitely go for the new job. My husband’s AP was forced out of his company when the A was exposed and then later tried to come back for a year and was forced out again (because she had signed a severance agreement and was thus in violation by returning). Anyway even without her at the company I find it challenging for him to be going to the same buildings where this happened. Also I find just driving by places associated with the cheating difficult. It is 8 years on and we often say we wish we had left and started fresh back when it happened. I’m sure there is some wishful thinking involved.

All that to say I sympathize with your husband’s "fresh start" idea. But, maybe you were more of the mindset of the other people who responded to the post. Maybe there are just too many complications for it to make sense. I would make the decision that will make you and your husband most happy. The older teens will be off on their own soon anyway. For some kids moves open new doors and for some it is just too emotionally disruptive - it depends on your individual children.

Try counseling for him and YOU -
No matter what, he is going to be out of your sight a lot as life goes on. Up to you and him to re-establish trust.

We have been in counselling, I still am. Both IC (me more than him but that's partly due to significant previous FOO trauma), as well as alost 2 years of MC. We just recently put that on pause as we felt we'd gotten what we could out of it.

All that to say I sympathize with your husband’s "fresh start" idea. But, maybe you were more of the mindset of the other people who responded to
the post.

I am drawn to the possibility of a new start, and I do feel VERY strongly that him still being in the same building as her every day, the same building where the A in it's entirety took place, is an enormous problem, for me. It keeps me on edge every day he has to go there. Obviously he can cheat anywhere, anytime, any place if he wants to. But him being every day in the same place as her where the A took place is a torture for me. This is why it's been an absolute non-negotiable for me he switch jobs. As he hasn't managed to do that for this extended period of time without us taking a leap to another continent, I'm considering if it might be worth it to finally cut all ties to that place and the OW that come with him being close to her on a daily base even though he avoids her as far as I know.

In the best of ways...
You do realize that the problem is probably you?

Look – There are two reasons we suggest total NC – job included – after d-day. One is to prevent the temptation – to make the relapse less likely. The other is the peace-of-mind for the betrayed spouse.
In all honesty – since the OW is working at the same location I’m guessing either of them could quit the job, get a new job an hour away but still meet up at some mid-way motel for lunch-sex. Changing job is more like a sign of commitment and a tool to ease doubt.

We sometimes compare infidelity behavior to alcoholism. A fully recovered alcoholic can go to a bar with friends and sit there having a good time while only drinking soda. A recovering alcoholic couldn’t and wouldn’t. It’s the same with your husband. Is he likely to relapse if he’s around the OW? Is he playing with fire by holding that tumbler of whiskey, sniffing at it with no real intention of sipping?
MAYBE there is no risk of a relapse. MAYBE he can do his job with no or minimal interaction with OW, and/or that possible interaction totally work-related. But do you feel safe?

If I’m anywhere near the right spot then seriously look into what assurances YOU need to feel safe. With what I said in mind – that if they wanted to, they could carry on irrespective of employment – then maybe you two can find some workable solution with him working where he is and you two both content with that.

Bigger is exactly right.

This isn’t about OW anymore.

This is about trust.

There are always going to be other women, other opportunities, if he’s so inclined.

You shouldn’t live your life in a state of stress.

My sense is that it’s not just the proximity of OW that has you stressed. Are there other things he’s doing, or not doing?

Do you sense other changes in how he treats you, how he feels about you?

If do, try to deal with those things.

But the sad truth is, for you and all the rest of us, things are never going to be the same.

Is there risk going forward? Yes, with him or with someone else. There’s risk with most everything in life (e.g., driving a car), but you don’t even think about it. The risk is worth it.

Get to that same place with this.

As I said earlier, at some point, you just have to live it.

Take a big, deep breath and move on.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate them.

First of all I'm a bit (positively)surprised that on this forum where I've identified leaving the workplace if the AP was a COW as an absolute rule no matter what, that several of you seem to lean towards it being ok he stay there if boundaries are in place. I actually find it refreshing to see that not every 'rule' on SI is so totally black and white. I have felt more or less like a complete fool for even attempting R with someone who is still in the same workplace as their OW so I am actually a bit relieved to see someone find it kind of ok.

I have considered the possibility of him staying there indefinitely, it still is an option, albeit one I REALLY don't want to happen. Obviously it's an option. I'm still here two years after DD. Had it been an absolute boundary for me with no possibility of consideration for level of salary etc I would have left ages ago or told him he needed to quit no matter the consequences to our finances. I have done neither. I have sort of 'gotten used to' the daily torture, and obviously I know he could meet her even if he found another place of work. I think it's the whole place for me. Knowing what they did in that building, knowing that although he thinks they were super discreet, some of their colleagues probably know anyways. They always know. But yeah, it IS a hard boundary for me, but with some leeway for considerations for him finding something within his field and pay grade so as not to completely destroy his career for the foreseeable future as well as our finances.

WH isn't pushing for the over seas job only due to the A or for my sake. Like I said, it's been a life long dream of ours, and his, to one day take one of these jobs in another country. However I had not planned on packing up our lives and moving continents still struggling emotionally after an A. He really wants this job, not just for our Ms sake but as a career move. And so he's sort of punishing it from both angles. It would be a fantastic move for his career (huge salary increase for him)AND we would get away from everything here reminding us of this horrible issue. It's just that I am struggling with taking the leap to quit my job, leave all my friends and family, to go start out fresh with someone who has not been trustworthy in the past. He has made significant changes in many ways, so I do believe he really wants to rebuild trust, although he hasn't always been great at it.

Moving would not 'A-proof' our marriage in itself. There are women everywhere no matter what continent so he can always have an A should he be so inclined. But I suppose getting away from the ghost of the OW and their A on a daily basis would still provide some kind of closure and peace that isn't possible while he is still there. Then again, it's also entirely possible they are still in an ongoing A and that they've been able to move it completely underground since DD. I have no way of knowing 100%. I haven't found any signs of that being the case, I don't really believe it is so (my spider senses are not going off like they did during the A) but after what I've read on this forum these two years, anything is possible, these things do happen way more often than we would like to think. So a move would put an end to that line of thinking but not much more I suppose. (Like someone said, his next job might have an even 'better' AP candidate.

I would jump at the chance of going anywhere overseas and living for a few years because of all the opportunities to expand my cultural experiences. I love learning new languages. I WISH the military had sent us somewhere when the kids were still at home but old enough to appreciate the once in a lifetime opportunity to see other countries and be exposed to other cultures. As for your mom, if she's relatively healthy, why not take her with you? Plus, there's always Zoom to call the oldest. But I've always been the adventurous type and plan on moving back to Europe in the next few years.
Maybe you could go back to school overseas and pick up a new skill and language.
But, everyone sees things from their own perspective. You have to do what's best for you. I just hope I could give you another perspective to consider. But just think how exciting it would be to travel. You don't say which country. Then again, if you did, I'd start fantasizing about all the great food in that region!

Misery

In my long time of being on SI I have realized that there are maybe only two rules that might be considered absolute:
The first is that the worst advice offered on this site is legal advice – although it normally is generally correct. It’s the sort of advice when offered might give you a clue about what to do, but always needs to be confirmed or validated by real, local and on-site legal knowledge.
The second is that no rule is absolute. This one included.

We tend to deal with probabilities and odds and try to hedge your situation to the best advantage. It’s like saying that exposing the affair to the other spouse will end the affair in 8 out of 10 instances is NOT saying it will always do so. Many of our suggestions are akin to wearing a seat-belt while driving – it’s preventive just in case something happens, rather than a foregone conclusion that you will crash your car if you don’t wear it.

In cold reality it would be best for you if OW moved to Patagonia and became a reclusive there. But that’s not happening. You can’t control what the OW does. So we deal with what we can control. Often we can control where we or the WS works. This case seems to have issues with that.

I refer back to my alcoholism comparison: If your husband was just out of rehab then a counselor would probably have held a family-meeting where things like having a non-alcohol home, not offering any alcoholic drinks, not going to places where he might be offered alcohol, stay away from places offering alcohol... basically creating a bubble where your husband didn’t have quick access to a relapse.
When we talk about NC and not working together, then that is the infidelity-equivalent of removing quick temptations.

Just like your husband might see that bottle of vodka when searching for soy-sauce and be tempted, he could be the last to leave the budget-meeting, along with OW and be tempted to a short and quick "how are you" conversation – that might lead to something else. It’s removing the temptation AND offering YOU a sense that he’s in a safe environment.

The reality is that IF he wanted to maintain the affair and if SHE did so too... they could simply hide it better this time. Meet at the park, kisses in the store-room or whatever.
Same with the alcoholic. If he wanted to drink, he could go to the nearest store and buy a bottle. It’s more an issue of creating time from urge to implementation. Time to rethink and refocus.

As with the alcoholic the future can’t be built on evading temptation, but they learn to live with them. Same with your husband. But... a recovering alcoholic would never seek out to be around alcohol, and they would intentionally avoid temptation.
I have a friend who has been sober for over 30 years. I was at a function with him and had a drink in hand. Had to go to the WC so I asked him to hold my drink. He refused but offered to keep an eye on it if I placed it on a table. He simply has this fierce policy of keeping temptation away by never holding alcohol. Your husband needs to adapt a comparable policy.

The issue is then if he can convince you, and if you are OK.
Maybe this can ease other issues in the marriage. Like if he can focus his attention off the career-change towards making you feel safe despite working in the same area as OW.

However... Don’t compromise how you feel. If you give this a shot, yet you still have fears and doubts then IMHO you are entitled to him changing careers – if that is a requirement for an ongoing marriage.

I’m also happy to see the diversity of advice. At the end of the day, people’s life situations and emotional landscapes are complex and unique, so even solid rules of thumb like leaving a workplace to save a marriage don’t hold true in every situation.

My husband’s job is similar to what you describe. Very hard, if not impossible, to make a lateral move to another workplace, and limited transferable skills for finding another line of work with comparable pay, stability, or benefits. Moreover, we live in a relatively remote area where any job change for him would have anlso involved me giving up my job and uprooting our kids and my elderly mother in law, who lives with us and whom we care for. Financially and emotionally, leaving his job made little sense for us, and I certainly didn’t want to move to a different location where I had no job or support system when I didn’t have confidence in the future of our marriage.

That said, him remaining at his workplace, in the same department as his AP, was a HUGE source of stress and anxiety for me, and definitely put my healing and our reconciliation on a longer trajectory. It took about two years for him working with his AP not to be a source of anxiety and pain for me. In retrospect, had we known more about affair recovery, we could’ve figured out a better/healthier low contact approach at the beginning that would have helped us, but we were naive.

At this point, 4 3/4 years after DDay, him working with her doesn’t bother me. Their contact is limited, and that part of my brain has quieted down as I’ve grown more and more sure that he has good boundaries in place and doesn’t want to be with her. I could be wrong, of course, but my gut feels good about it, and I’m happy we stayed where we are. Essentially, my emotions have caught up with my belief that either he’s a safe partner or he’s not, and a different workplace or location isn’t going to change that.

All that to say, you have a lot to weigh. I suspect I would feel the same as you in your situation. Two years out from DDay we were both fully committed to healing and reconciliation, but I didn’t have enough confidence in the long term outlook of my marriage to feel good about uprooting myself from the place where my kids were happy and where I had the job and support system I would need were we to get divorced.

How well are the two of you communicating? I feel like this is something that needs a lot of talk and thought, and your kids may deserve some input too.

I would jump at the chance of going anywhere overseas and living for a few years because of all the opportunities to expand my cultural experiences. I love learning new languages. I WISH the military had sent us somewhere when the kids were still at home but old enough to appreciate the once in a lifetime opportunity to see other countries and be exposed to other cultures.

This would have been me for my entire life up until DD as well. I grew up an expat kid. I speak 5 languages. We've always planned on doing this at some point. But like I mentioned in an earlier post, I never imagined leaving everything that has been keeping me afloat (alive even) since DD with the one person who's actions and choices completely wrecked my life and me as a person I always felt it was the two of us against the rest of the world before. Now, it's med and the rest of the world against him, emotionally. He's the threat at the moment. And I am not sure that will ever change completely.

As for your mom, if she's relatively healthy, why not take her with you? Plus, there's always Zoom to call the oldest.

Unfortunately she is really unwell and I am actually afraid she would not live through the years we would be away. I do have an older sister, my mother is about equally close to us so she wouldn't be left completely alone in any way. I'm just scared that I would some time down the line regret missing the last years I had with my mother. On the other hand, in a few short years, all our kids will be out of the house so this truly is the last chance to experience this as a family.

Two years out from DDay we were both fully committed to healing and reconciliation, but I didn’t have enough confidence in the long term outlook of my marriage to feel good about uprooting myself from the place where my kids were happy and where I had the job and support system I would need were we to get divorced.

This is exactly how I feel.

How well are the two of you communicating? I feel like this is something that needs a lot of talk and thought, and your kids may deserve some input too.

We are talking daily on this subject and have included the children as well. Trying to find som common ground but with a couple of moody teens that is easier said than done. WH really, really wants to give this a shot (i.e apply for the job and see where that takes us if anywhere), kids and I are sceptical to put it mildly. It's been a lifelong dream for him so I think getting away from AP is more a bonus for him in this particular case more than the main reason to apply.

I’m sure this is a very simple thought and there are more complexities but could you build in a week or two for you back at home w your mother every 2 or 3 or 4 months? If that is financially possible, even if it’s a stretch it might make it more manageable to decide to give it a go.

If he’s not supportive of that then he’s probably only in this for himself and perhaps not truly a good partner for you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:56 AM, Tuesday, March 18th]

I’m sure this is a very simple thought and there are more complexities but could you build in a week or two for you back at home w your mother every 2 or 3 or 4 months? If that is financially possible, even if it’s a stretch it might make it more manageable to decide to give it a go.

The job would include one trip home per year for the entire family for en extended stay. I do believe he would be accommodating for me to travel home by myself as well (or all of us if possible) in any capacity our finances would allow. This not just for my mother's sake but to see our oldest who would not be coming with us.