SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's been a while since I was here. I seem to remember that some statistic, or book pointed out that something like 80% of one of the two sexes leaves the relationship after infidelity, while almost the same exact percentage stays? Like 80% of women stay, but 80% of men leave...something like that.

Is this correct, or do I have it backwards? Or is that something I am just remembering completely wrong?

Thanks All!

A~

I think I read on average, 35% of couples after an affair recover. Or maybe it was35% of couples deal with infidelity and 80% recover. Hell I can’t remember. But I know no 2 couples are alike and it all depends on how hard both are willing to work on saving the relationship. My ww hasn’t really put much effort into recovery and to be honest, I give ourselves at best a 40% chance we make it long term. I’m just not ready to throw in the towel yet.

I am not sure about what the stats are, they seem to vary source to source. I also can’t imagine that enough people self report to get an accurate view.

However, most of the things I have read does place a higher percentage of divorces when the ws is female. I have seen similar stats on that pretty consistently.

I am not sure what picture it really paints though- more women are dependent for finances, there is no subset of staying for the kids, and without the reasons for staying it’s hard to interpret. Especially since I have read women initiate divorce at a much higher rate today than men. I have seen everything from 58 -76 percent. In fact I just googled it and the first result says 70 percent.

I used to be more interested in stats because I wanted some sort of idea if it was even possible. But the reality is each circumstance is different.

I would be very interested in stats if I ever found a source I believed. Gottman makes incredible statistical predictions on divorce rates based off his "four horsemen", and I find that to be very informative because he does it right and he backs it up with replicated observations. I’ve seen nothing of similar pedigree on R/D post infidelity, so I’ve not tried to use any of the numbers I have seen in my own personal journey. If there were Gottman-like defensible numbers out there, I would think long and hard about them. But I don’t think they are there. I’d be happy to be proved wrong.

There does seem going by anecdotal evidence, of the (smaller) percentage of betrayed men who stayed, a VERY large fraction of them who are quite sad. As in they are wandering around feeling as if their balls had gotten cut off. So I would imagine that BHs who successfully reconciled--key word SUCCESSFULLY--is about as rare as hen's teeth. It is seeming to be but a very small percentage of the already far less than half who stayed.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 11:23 PM, Wednesday, April 10th]

WontBeFooledAgain, you have a pm.

I do apologize for my crude phrasing in my previous post, I am prone to using colorful language IRL and it does get me into trouble. If I may I will try again: From MOST (not all though) of the threads I have read on here and from what I have seen IRL, it seems that a lot of BHs who are sticking around, are continuing to be having quite a rough go at it, with not much apparent improvement in their marriages or in their personal happiness, even years later. I passionately, truly, don't want that to be you or anyone else OP, although I do respect YMMV.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:10 AM, Thursday, April 11th]

Leaving a cheater is a luxury not everyone can afford.
The stats don’t mean anything. There are lot of variables, no suitable controls. The study is flawed if there is one.
Leaving does not mean you are strong, nor does staying mean you are weak.

Wontbefooledagain,

I think you won’t find the happily reconciled hanging out in infidelity forums at least not in large numbers. They have no reason to need the forums. I have been here for seven years (with a large absence between years 4-6) and during that time I have seen many sign off stating they reconciled and were moving on from the forums. And a good many who just come back for visits. Who report good results.

Those of us who did reconcile, a few of us stay kind of as a pay it forward or to deepen our learning.

Truth is take the bh and replace it with bs and that is more accurate. I find that the bh and the bow’s here say a lot of the same things. It’s your own confirmation bias that makes you think this is a bh issue.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:08 PM, Thursday, April 11th]

Dr Kathy Nickerson and a couple of her colleagues did a survey on this recently and gathered some good information

You can find it on her website

In regards to the OP
I found this interesting from her data:

One question that I am asked often: Is it worse when a woman cheats? Yes, the data suggest it's worse predictor for reconciliation when a woman cheats. Our findings show that when women have affairs, they feel less regret than men, they feel more love for their affair partner, they are more emotionally disconnected from their original partner, they reconcile with their original partners at lower rates and they are less likely to want to reconcile with their original partners.

Men who stray remain with their original partner more often than women who stray. 82.1% of men reported that they are still with their original partner versus 71.3% of women. (Q36)

What I can say regarding gender and infidelity is this:
There is a general belief that when a woman cheats there has been a longer build-up, and that the affair is generally an exit-affair. Like a lot of things we believe there might not be much data or hard evidence to back it up. I have a feeling based on my experience here that it’s more common that a WW restarts and affair or commits to divorce at or shortly after d-day, but that isn’t based on any science or hard data. Just my "feeling". Based on that the 80% is just as good as any number, although the same unscientific "feeling" would place it at 50-60%
With us men... It’s more like a cheater was only nibbling at the forbidden fruit. A WH will generally go into damage-control and tends to both piss off his wife and the AP. They get a very clear message that they aren’t the priority. I think WH are more likely to want to work at saving their marriage. That might drop the number to 20-40%

But...
This is just a hypothesis. No hard data behind it.

** Posting member to member **

From MOST (not all though) of the threads I have read on here and from what I have seen IRL, it seems that a lot of BHs who are sticking around, are continuing to be having quite a rough go at it, with not much apparent improvement in their marriages or in their personal happiness, even years later. I passionately, truly, don't want that to be you or anyone else OP, although I do respect YMMV.

Given what you've said in other posts, it's clear that you filter for cases which confirm your biases. It's pretty hard for anyone not to do that sort of filtering. That's one of the reasons that I do my best not to make arguments based on statistics without citing sources. That's one of the reasons that I urge others not to make arguments based on statistics without citing sources.

As for walking around as if one's balls were cut off, I don't know how many of us have experience what that looks like. I do know that history has many cases of powerful eunuchs - check out, for example, Zheng He/Cheng Ho.

In any case, if one stays out of fear or other weakness, that's one's choice. I understand how painful being betrayed is from my own experience. I do not doubt what other BSes say about their own experience.

You seem to say something like, 'BSes stay in pain because that's the way it is.' IMO, it doesn't have to be that way for the vast majority of us. That's a hypothesis, and I can't imagine a way to prove it, but ....

Everything I've ever read says in one way or another that healing takes courage. What SI can do for those who aren't healing because they have no hope or because they fear change, etc. is to help them find their strengths and courage, not wallow in their fear of change or other weakness.

One question that I am asked often: Is it worse when a woman cheats? Yes, the data suggest it's worse predictor for reconciliation when a woman cheats....(Q36)

It's worse only to someone who believes R is, in essence, the only good outcome of an A.

Most of us who are happy with our choice give up trying to control our outcomes. We focus on finding the best way through the hell of being BSes, whatever that resolution may be.

*****

There are no good stats on infidelity outcomes. All the stats in print are either aimed at getting attention so the issuer can sell something or based on self-reporting, which has innumerable pitfalls.

To heal, each of us needs to find our own path through this. If a BS wants to D, who cares if 80% of BSes like them choose and succeed at R? If a BS wants to R, who cares if 80% of BSes like them choose D?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:36 PM, Thursday, April 11th]

Stats are difficult to believe, for me, for one simple reason. Most are surveys and or in person interviews.

Those assume everyone is telling the truth.

The population they are asking is not exactly known for honesty. Add in shame, admitted to your own faults . . .If most of us here were lied to by our WS what makes them more likely to tell the truth to a stranger?

Add it individual variances and the lack of a solid definition of what is considered, "infidelity," yeah the data is at the very best needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

The main take away for me is that my own experiences are the only ones I know where
infidelity has occurred. So based on my anecdotal evidence, for my M, it is 100%. KWIM?

To heal, each of us needs to find our own path through this. If a BS wants to D, who cares if 80% of BSes like them choose and succeed at R? If a BS wants to R, who cares if 80% of BSes like them choose D?

As usual, I agree with you Sisoon that there are not good enough numbers out there to really know. However, if there were, I think we would be remiss to not use them. Like as we’ve learned more about cancer: if I get a cancer diagnosis that has a very grim prognosis based off the collective experience of millions of people coming before me, it’s not wise to just consider myself an individual that can’t be contained by statistics. Similarly, if there was solid data out there that said that 99% of cases "like" mine (whatever control factors those might be) ended in either divorce or a miserable co-existence of a marriage, I’d run for the hills.

So maybe that data will come some day. But I don’t think it’s here for us now, so we just have to do the best we can with what we have.

Iirc, not just friends has some of the stats.

I think that initial number is my 2/3rds to try R. The 5 year survival rate of a relationship impacted by infidelity is something like twice as bad as the population average for five years.

Most are surveys and or in person interviews.

At first, I was interested in statistics about infidelity. Someone - a woman's mag, IIRC - ran an experiment. They interviewed and gave an anonymous survey to the same population of young women. IIRC, I applied the same percentages to the General Social Survey, 116% of women cheated at least once in their M.

*****

Raw probabilities are only part of the story.

Gottman apparently has a lot of solid data, and they're based on a number of observable parameters. Even so, his school says that a couple that doesn't show the characteristics of a long-lived relationship can change and create a long term relationship. Presumably a couple can change themselves to stop doing the things that make the long term viable.

I think you won’t find the happily reconciled hanging out in infidelity forums at least not in large numbers.

Probably nothing truer ever said.

Those of us who are on here, and post here, over the longer term, likely get some firm of affirmation, from doing so, keeping us grounded. Likely each for very different specific reasons with infidelity being only the common point.

As in they are wandering around feeling as if their balls had gotten cut off.

I don't mean this necessarily as a direct rebuttal of the poster whom posted this.

No man or woman who has been betrayed should ever feel like that, or be viewed like that. I haven't felt like this, but my brother betrayed his wife around the same time that my wife betrayed me. She was a wonderful woman. She was truly devastated, he and his AP tried to take the children away as well. I'm sure she felt like this because she was calling me, and I'm not known for my empathetic ear and I could hear the desperation in her voice.

Unfortunately, this type of language perpetuates the stereotype of the betrayed spouse as being the one who can't manage to keep their marriage and family together, when the opposite is true.

It takes a lot of courage to fight on, day after day, year in and year out, because the BS does a lot of that alone, against the odds, and their foxhole buddy doesn't have their back.

In my case, I saved my marriage/family at great cost. My sister in law tried but hers was destroyed, unable to do so because my brother was such self righteous jerk. It was so bad that I've hardly spoken to him in over 20 years, he married his AP and I've never spoken to her even when we are in the same room.

If anyone on this earth has balls, his BS does!

[This message edited by standinghere at 8:25 AM, Friday, April 12th]

Well, I should clarify again. I don't feel that staying makes a BH a spineless wimp, not by any means. I DO feel that many BHs stay and are unhappy, and in fact are so unhappy that they **feel** completely cut off from their mojo. As in, they have resigned themselves to staying tied to a woman and to a marriage where much of the love (on both sides) has gone. These men have seem to have concluded that romance and passion isn't for them at least any time soon if ever, I mean they certainly have tried time and time again with their WWs but haven't gotten hardly anywhere, so... These men don't seem to feel that they get to call the shots in their own lives anymore--I mean intellectually they know they do get to call the shots, but perhaps duty or obligation or inertia or the Church says that they should fall on the sword and stay with their WW.

(Cut off from one's mojo--all I am doing is looking for the right words to describe a very deep sense of giving up of being happy. And it is funny how it all ties together. When we have the love of a woman who inspires us, it just often feels that our careers are going better probably because we feel more confident going into work in the morning, we seem to feel we get to call the shots more at work too. We find hobbies and projects that we are passionate about, which I guess makes our woman admire us all the more. But **when we are with someone who brings us down**, we feel less alive in other areas of our lives, I think. We feel like we are just running on the hamster wheel at work, slaving away to keep the boss happy just like we do for the missus--but who cares about us being happy though. And less things outside of work bring us joy as well. So much better I think to be single instead!)

I find these stories from the BHs staying with an unremorseful WW absolutely heart-wrenching. Which is why I am on here urging a BH to cut himself free from his WW.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 11:59 PM, Friday, April 12th]

I hear you Wontbefooled. But I think you could have written this about any bs not just the Bh’s. I get that you feel a camaraderie maybe as a man but women experience this too.

What I have noted about people who stay who are not reconciled is there is usually some underlying reason they want to stay married. They don’t want to give up their kids half the time, they don’t want to lose half their retirement or all they worked for, or a hit if other reasons.

I agree, I hate to think about others choosing to be in a loveless marriage. But the part that can be true is a lot of people on this site who are miserable at 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, etc is they need time to decide what they want to do. Many of them will eventually either divorce or reconcile, and find happiness in the end.

It takes 2-5 years to heal from infidelity and I think you will find the majority of posters who are actively seeking help are still early out. They may not be ready to choose. I get that you want them to be happy and I think that’s what most of us want here. Neither choice gets the pain gone quickly, both have their repercussions.

There were people here when I joined and in the years I was active that I surely thought they should divorce or even advised it, and they claim to be happily married today. There are ones I thought would make it, and they didn’t.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:26 AM, Saturday, April 13th]

FWIW I am happily reconciled. That being said I could be happily married in a loveless marriage as well. I know of at least 3 of my friends in that situation. 2 of the 3 have experienced infidelity and the 3 rd is just content in a marriage of convenience. They all are happy. They travel. They have plenty of money and do with it as they please. Their kids are happy. They do not really argue with their husbands and are friendly. They occasionally have sex. Romantic love is just not important to them. I believe they all love their spouses in an almost sibling sort of way. 2 suspect their spouse sleeps with others and they truly don’t care. I do warn them of std’s and they claim they are "careful?" The point I am trying to make is marriage was traditionally a business arrangement and some
People are happy and content in life keeping it that way. When I see a married couple I really try to refrain from judging their situation and overall happiness. We are all so different. I think it’s a tad judgmental when anyone judges the happiness of any couple who stay after infidelity. We rarely know the true nature of the arrangement unless they communicate it. I think advising one to stay only for love is a disservice. People need to do what makes them happy. Stay for kids. Stay for money. Stay for love. Or leave because you want someone else. Whatever floats your boat. All these caveats make statistics irrelevant in my opinion.