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I walked up to the reception desk and told the woman that I was there to see my wife. She said, "she just left for lunch but if you hurry you might catch them in the garage"

That receptionist knew exactly what was going on. Her phrasing couldn't have been better. You're right to consider her a contact. She sees those two leave for "lunch" together every day, for probably a year, give or take. Use the premise of visiting your wife to go back there. I think you should walk in there with a small, yet considerate gift for a little chat. Start by calling her your hero. Make sure you give her your number on that card. If you time it right, then you might still catch them in the parking lot again. Very likely that they think you're not going to show up again. This time catch him with your camera instead of a hard right.

Oh, put a VAR and GPS in her car.

[This message edited by PickleRick at 2:44 PM, Monday, March 4th]

PickleRick,

That's a great catch. Yes, that's compelling evidence to support that the receptionist knew what was going on and could be a good ally.

Games People Play was on the best seller list when W & I were getting together. It was a tremendous influence on us.

As Cooley says, it describes games in which the goal is losing, so they can't ever be won. But Berne also describes ways to get out of each game, and that does open one up to winning.

The copyright has expired, so, GPP is available for free download from several websites.

How are you doing, Epicryan?

Has your wife moved back into the house? Have you developed a plan on how you want to proceed?

Good luck. Keep taking action, stay out of the limbo as best you can.

I'm sorry your in this situation.

I read your first post and I guess I'm lucky. I didn't catch my fWW in the act but a friend did catch her and AP doing it on a desk in another office. He didn't elaborate on what he saw, but it was enough that I still get mind movies.

I hope that you can get past all of this.

As if everything else in your situation isn’t bad enough, the manipulation plus the way she acted after you tickled his nose would be too much for me to get past.

EpicRyan,

Are you still there? How is it going?

Well I started out one step behind but I think I am in the lead now. Regaining footing is liberating. My wife advised that she would be returning Sunday and that she would never again vacate for any reason (she thinks it’s better to talk these things out!). I took the opportunity to make a hasty exit for a week long business trip/visit with my brother cum mental health holiday. I told her that I would be back Friday and that I wanted a full disclosure, at a minutia level detail, before I returned. She outright refused. She said that she knows me and that I would never get over the details and it would be better if we pretended that this, "blip" in an otherwise great marriage, never happened. She said that this was out-of-character for her, she doesn’t know why she did it and it will never happen again. He loves me and only me and she never stopped loving me. She has made appointments for later in the month with a couples therapist and she will do whatever the therapist says in order to save our marriage. Of course I have some blame in this whole thing that I must accept if we are to ever get back to where we were. I told her she is delusional if she thinks me reading something on paper will be worse than seeing her mouth with AP’s dick in it.

I simply replied "that wont work for me" and blocked her number. I enjoyed my week, catching up with my brother and his wife. Caught a grapefruit league game, a few days R&R and changed my flight to arrive as late as possible on Sunday.

The house was dark when I got home but she quickly came out to greet me by calling me "immature" for blocking her. Then I sort of snapped at her and said that woman who blows and has sex with random guys in her car, while on company grounds, during a work day, shouldn’t be calling anybody immature. I said you do realize that the parking garage has security cameras? You do realize that the complex has active security personnel who probably were well aware of what you were doing? She immediately tried defending herself by saying at they never had sex while at work, only oral on him. Then she told me she will quit her job. I told her not too as she will need some way of supporting herself after our divorce. She immediately offered a timeline disclosure and I said it was too late and the time for contrition was over and that it wouldn’t make any difference in my decision anyway. After about an hour of trying to convince me to at least accept therapy and a cooling off period because "I was clearly still to upset to discuss this properly", she tried to seduce me and that didn’t work, so she called me an A-hole and left the bedroom. I think she gets her bravado from me usually acquiescing to her demands.

I left work a little early on Monday and went by my wife’s office and asked the receptionist to meet me at a nearby pub for a conversation about who the other guy was, and how long she knew something was going on. She was quite helpful. She told me his name, on the condition that I kept her name out of the drama. She said that he started early last year and that he is a newlywed. She said that it was common knowledge amongst the general office staff that there was something going on after a few months of him working there. Apparently word got around that in addition to continually having lunch together, they would always be around each other’s offices for chitchat. She said that she didn’t notice them "leaving for lunch", but one day she forgot her lunch in her car and caught them. She said that was September.

I got home and my wife was pulling out all the stops. The house smelled great, she was making my favorite dinner, she was dressed better than I had seen in awhile (at least for me). She had full make-up done and seemingly didn’t have a care in the world. She asked how my day was and if I liked her outfit and I said it looks really good, who is it for? She started crying and grabbed me for a hug. She started apologizing, saying she was sorry for what happened (the first time she actually apologized) and asked if there was any way I could forgive her and recover from this. I told her it would be impossible to come back from seeing her actually engaged in sexual activity with someone else (that she hasn’t done with me in I cant remember how long), so no reconciliation wouldn’t happen. She tried bargaining again, offering an open one-way relationship and threesomes. I said they were all great offers but it wouldn’t be much of a marriage with the whole me not trusting you and the fact that you treated me like absolute garbage since you started getting involved with your AP. I said that sex with him picked up and ours died off entirely, so I learned to live without your affection, which is probably for the because I get really angry when I think about you trying to kiss me after being with him. I told her that she should go tell the guys wife and maybe they get divorced and then you two can get-together, because since you have been with him, you actually seemed happier than I have made you in the last nine months.

She apologized and ugly cried. I told her I only have one question, why? I guess with nothing to lose she opened up. She said that my company recovery travel schedule post covid, although not unusual, caused her to be lonely after spending so much time together, this new guy showed interest in her and convinced her that I wasn’t giving her the attention she deserved. She responded to his attention with at work conversations during lunch, progressing to excessive texting, then calls while I was away, to getting together with him at employee outings until he started making moves on her, moving to sex and proclaiming love for one-another up until her "talk" with me. So it was already fully active at that point. She used my eagerness to fix the situation to her advantage. They would set a date for a get together and she would construct an argument that she knew I would challenge her on, she would leave and have sex with him or download how bad a husband I was. He was using these constructed premeditated arguments to his advantage telling her that if I really cared about her I would just do as she wished – happy wife, happy life sort of mantra and then they would console one another. He was just as bad, telling her about his marriage woes and his terrible wife.

She said that after the Mexico trip, she was feeling guilty (mind you this is nine months or more of sexual contact with him and no guilt was present) that she saw I was really trying to fix something that she created and was going to break it off him but wouldn’t you know it, I just happened to catch them in the act. I told her that I was willing to go to couples therapy but only so I could drop the anger that I have and so we could be friends going forward. I wanted to have an amicable split and maybe try dating once we are in a better place. She asked if we could have sex because she wanted to feel close to me one last time, and I said why start now?

I called the AP on his work phone on Tuesday and told him who I was. I broke his complete silence with a threat to tell his wife what was going on if he didn’t cooperate with me. He asked what I wanted and I said a complete timeline. The whole what, when, where and how. I wanted text messages, emails, call logs anything that I could get my hands on, including where they had sex and who paid for the meeting places. He asked how he could be sure I wouldn’t give it to his wife and I told him he couldn’t but that I wasn’t interested in him or his marriage, but just getting out of mine unscathed.

This week I met with my new attorney and got her up to date. She said that if my STBXW continues to be amenable then everything should go well but be prepared for the wheels to fall-off at any moment. I received the timeline from her and her AP that are pretty similar. My STBXW's isn't as graphic and a few details don't line up but overall it gives me an idea of what went on. The AP tries to diminish my STBXW's role, staying it was him who was active in a "full court press", but I don't think this guy is capable of being a studly mastermind. Then again he got more sex and bj's out of my STBXW in the last nine months than I did so who knows.

I am going to hand over the timeline to his wife as soon as possible.

Is it better that I speak to her in person? I thought I would start off with when your husband came home with a broken nose how did he explain it and go from there....

Good on you for telling the other BS and giving her her power back.

Regarding the excuse your wife said about feeling alone and you travelling too much - it’s total bullshit. My WW blamed me for being at home too much! Like I am mid 40s with C level job and two kids under ten, where should I be? They will use any excuse to justify their evil, ignore it and move forward.

[This message edited by Jajaynumb at 11:30 AM, Tuesday, March 19th]

happy wife, happy life

This phrase has always bothered me. To me it means if a wife is unhappy it gives her license to abuse her spouse emotionally until he does what needs to be done to make her happy. To me it comes off as a threat and rationalization for husband abuse.

I think you’re handling this like a champ. I won’t pretend that I don’t take pleasure in her suffering the consequences of her actions. What I really like about what you’re posting is your commitment to take care of yourself. You’ve said your wife wants to rug sweep her affair. You haven’t let her. She thinks she deserves a mulligan. You say nope. Nothing you’ve written makes me think she cares about your experience or pain in all of this. Even her suggesting MC triggered me. I highly suspect she’ll use that as a stage to blame shift everything to you.

I totally support you telling the OBS. If this guy was a newlywed and already cheating, he’s going to continue cheating on her. It’s better for her to know what he is sooner rather than later. I think it’s probable he’s already deployed some defenses to you telling her about the affair. Something like "this woman I work with has a crazy husband who thinks…". You seem pretty capable, so this advice might be unneeded, but make sure to provide her with as much evidence as possible. Your wife telling her might send the most powerful message.

You have absolutely caught up and taken the lead. You have set yourself up for the best possible outcome for whatever it is you decide. If you have any thought that you’re not handling things correctly, throw those thoughts away.

From my perspective, your wife doesn’t know what to do. Looks like she had a plan to subjugate you like she was successful with in the past, but now that you’re not following the script she had laid out in her mind she has no backup plan. Look for her to continue to throw anything at the wall to see what sticks.

I’m sure you’ve read a bunch here and I’m sure you’ve read what a spouse who takes responsibility for their destruction of a relationship does and acts like. Keep those thoughts in the forefront. It really sucks when you hope they will act a certain way and instead they double down on their shitty behavior.

Tell the OMW. I would try to get ahold of her at least by phone call first to avoid any possibility of OM intercepting your initial communication. That’s happened a bunch here where the BS thought he had been talking to the other spouse and was really communicating with the AP.

Oh,damn!! BRAVO!!! Epicryan, great job! Outstanding...

Hope your attorney is a good one, follow her advice regarding letting the OBS know of the affair... your attorney may want to wait to use it as leverage in the divorce. I know it may suck to wait but eventually you -will- inform the OBS.

But you can still inform her parents and siblings (if she has them.) They need to know the reason for the upcoming divorce, otherwise you risk your WW rewriting the marriage history and the next thing you know your in-laws will be told a story about how abusive and horrible you were to your WW. Don't worry, they won't go looking to inform the OBS.

Keep a VAR handy on you at all times, your WW may become more unhinged and try a false domestic violence charge against you.

It would probably be best to inform OBS in person... have the evidence in an envelope along with your cell number, tell her quickly who you are and that your spouses have been having an affair, sorry that you're the messenger but here's the evidence and please contact me at your convenience. Try to do it in a private situation obviously away from her husband but not a creepy/stalkerish manner. You may have to find out if she works and where and then approach her near the end of work. Then leave... let her contact you for more info. Also put in the envelope a short note about the date you broke her husband's nose to corroborate everything and then a 'sorry, not sorry.'

Good luck, stay strong and keep taking action.

I was going to copy/paste some of your post to respond, but I'd have to copy the entire thing. You are my new hero! You are handling this like a boss!!!

How's it going Epicryan?

Still in house with WW? How are things? Has your attorney filed the divorce petition or is there a waiting /separation period in your state? Is your WW still working with AP?

Did you make contact with OBS and give her the timeline? If so, how'd that go?

You've done great so far, keep it up!

You are Doing an absolutely excellent job here. You are on the long path back to happiness much sooner than the average BS.

How are things going?

Keep pushing forward with the D, and do tell POSOM's BW about their affair.

Your WW still does not care about YOU, she simply wants to preserve the marriage for her.

Don't go to Couples Therapy. It's not the marriage that caused your WW to cheat, it was her own character. If you go, you run the risk of having an "expert" tell your WW that her cheating was partially your fault, which she will use to try to absolve herself of some guilt.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:23 PM, Tuesday, March 26th]

Any update Epicryan?

First of all I will say that I hate drama. I don’t know how people live in it. I am totally exhausted.

For the first week my STBXW was actually very amenable. We had some great conversations on how the financial arrangement would proceed. There were no arguments, no attempts at deflection or seduction. She generally was pleasant to be around.
Then one day she was officially served and all hell broke loose. It is difficult to define crazy but the blame shifting, slander, missing items (theft), broken items (lock box etc),insults and secret conversations with the AP have all escalated these past weeks to the point of crazy, at least in comparison to who she was before I caught her.

I spoke about it with my attorney and he said that it is not uncommon in the face of a divorce life changes, moving, separating finance, losing someone you did not really intend to lose, there is also the emotional changes. I was concerned that she was going to claim that I assaulted her so I set up some "spy cameras" around the house as protection. The benefit of the cameras was that it gave me their "game plan" at least one sided, which was to find the timeline and deny that anything has ever happened between them. Which didn’t make any sense because we are a no fault state and I was only asking for my retirement to be left alone.

I knew that it must be coming from the AP and their plans must be significant, so I took the wind out of their plans and visited the AP’s wife with his confession in hand. I looked her up on social media, contacted her with the ominous we need to talk and later that same day, I went to their house. It is kind of interesting meeting your counterpart and see how they live. I am not sure what I was expecting but being greeted by a very pregnant young woman was not something I could have imagined. I felt her sorrow and pain when I explained that I was getting a divorce from my wife because I caught them together. She didn’t want to believe it, until I told her that his broken nose was because of me, that I caught them in the act at their work. Then it was impossible for her not to accept it. I handed her copies of both timelines, told her my attorneys name and that if she needed anything she could call anytime.

Later that day my wife and AP confronted me at my home, rather violently, claiming I broke our agreement and "how could I do this to him?" I belly laughed at him making him madder and he took a swing. I re-broke his nose and choked him out and my STBXW called the police stating that I beat up her boyfriend. Cops came, took one look at him and was ready to arrest me until I showed them the cloud recordings. They hauled him away for assault. His wife called to tell me how sorry she was for all this and was extra sad that they were together again.

I said to my STBXW, I can see why he is so upset but what are you getting out of this? She didn’t answer but the whole episode made me wonder if they have plans to "screw me" and live happily ever after. I brought my attorney up-to-date, that night and filed a restraining order against the AP. At my attorneys advice I filed a request for a temporary order for her to vacate due to the "unpredictable nature and violence brought against me". It was going to be a long shot but it is worth a try.

My attorney gave me a book called Men’s Guide to High-Conflict Divorce. So there’s that.

epicryan, you are amazing. Adversity has hit you like a tidal wave and yet you have the resilience and strength of bedrock. I don’t need to tell you not to trust her in any way, shape, or form. Carry a var on you at all times, recording, anytime you’re anywhere around her. This woman is poison.

Hi Epi,

Thanks for the update. It's great to hear that you are moving forward with your plans to move out of infidelity.
We understand the emotional roller coaster that you are going through.
I'm up at 5 am processing betrayal and lawyer's letters.
It is draining! So hang in there.

A saying on this site is: when they show you who they are, believe them.
Your STBXW has definitely demonstrated who she really is.
I'm glad to hear that you have a great lawyer who has your back.

The hardest part of this update for me are your words:

greeted by a very pregnant young woman...His wife called to tell me how sorry she was for all this and was extra sad that they were together again.

My heart goes out to the OBS (other betrayed spouse), how devastating for you both.

We are here to help and we do understand what you are going through.
Regards,
FAWH.