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The psychiatrists here are labelling her a narcissist etc. Making lots of assumptions about lying from before the marriage etc, all on little data. That bothers me. JC is already set to D, decision made. Why speculate further?

As fas as I am concerned, no one here can be sure if she is remorseful or not but she sure wasn't in an exit affair. She has responded very quickly to wanting the marriage, many tears etc. It may be all selfish but that's an assumption too. The immediacy of her response makes me assume she will get to remorse if she is not already there but who knows.

As far as the college money, I need more data. I see why we might jump to the idea that they are her daughters, she should pay. But i read it as JC has raised them for 14+ years and is fully commited to them. He may have told the lawyer he is good with paying half. Yes, i would prefer it if she offered to let him off the hook for this due to her betrayal and the fact that they are her daughters from a previous M. But i think JC is committed and that might be the context for her response. But yes, that is not ideal.

@Trdd, we are on Team JC, and NOT on Team WW. We are looking out for *his* best interests, and if that means telling him to be on the lookout for possible schenanigans from WW--whether they end up happening or not--then so be it. I think JC is very wise to consider the possibility that this is not WW's first rodeo amongst other things, her ability to compartmentalize before DDay says a lot.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:26 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

JC, there is no handbook on how you 'should' be dealing with the betrayal right now, nor does anyone really expect you to be holding it together 100% of the time. I am glad you have found a place, might I suggest that when you move out that you find/renew a hobby that you can take your mind off things with. I only say that because personally I found the days and weeks after I kicked my ex-wife out of the family home to be quite confronting as the initial 'fight-or-flight' adrenaline tapered off and I was left with my thoughts.

There are certainly highs and lows in regards to emotions, in the weeks just after D-Day, I remember sitting on the bench at an ice hockey game waiting to go onto the ice and just not being present in the moment - I was just in a thousand yard stare completely separated from reality and the moment.

You're right about not needing to generally not know about the timeline, you know enough to know you don't like it, and that's that.

If I can give you some hope, my D-Day was Jul 2022 and I met someone about 6 months later who is 10x my ex-wife in every facet. I imagine you will have zero problems being happy with someone else going forward, but there is zero rush on that front.

Like my ex-wife, your soon-to-be-ex is going to find that life without a loving supportive partner who would have stuck by her for life isn't what she thinks it will be. The fact that she cheated on you with a person of his 'magnitude of pestilence' is all you need to know. It's all downhill for her from here.

You are handling this magnificently my friend, against all odds. I am still in awe of you throwing the PI folder of that parasite at her - that was pure brilliance. Chin up mate, thinking of you.

JC,

Finally, I’m a little concerned about my emotions and controlling them – something that I’ve always been really good at. One of my teams made a huge blunder yesterday and in a meeting about it , I just lost it.

Anger is a normal emotion considering the things you are currently going through.

I’ve always been a good boss, mentor and coach and I just can’t believe I could do that.

You are human, and if your team has worked with you for a while, they would have known it was not a 'normal' behaviour from you.

I left the meeting for a few minutes and then came back in and apologized.

This is a sign of being a good leader. You are willing to apologize for mistakes that you did. Your team would respect you more for that.

I told them I was going through a really painful divorce and that I’m wound pretty tight right now. I’m not sure if that was the right thing to do, but I actually felt better afterwards. That’s the first time I’ve told anyone what’s going on with me.

If your team is close to you, they may well circle the wagons around you to try and keep the enemy away.

Needless to say, don't divulge too much of your personal issues to them, as it can lead to blurred work boundaries, which will make work messy.

Apart form that, I think you are doing well considering the circumstances. The very fact that you had the clarity to turn down your STBXW's offer of 'intimacy' indicates that you still have your ability to think rationally.

As you continue to plan and work through the details of your separation and divorce, you will need to focus much effort to process the emotional fallout of the trauma that has been inflicted on you.

To this:

Finally, I’m a little concerned about my emotions and controlling them – something that I’ve always been really good at. One of my teams made a huge blunder yesterday and in a meeting about it , I just lost it. I’ve always been a good boss, mentor and coach and I just can’t believe I could do that. I left the meeting for a few minutes and then came back in and apologized. I told them I was going through a really painful divorce and that I’m wound pretty tight right now. I’m not sure if that was the right thing to do, but I actually felt better afterwards. That’s the first time I’ve told anyone what’s going on with me.

Just a note to say that the emotions that you are dealing with are some of the most powerful and potent known to man. Rage, sorrow, mourning, shock, all play their part. Fight or flight neuro chemical response floods the body. Cortisol and adrenalin flood the bloodstream. When this wears off....exhaustion. I say all of this to say that it is not surprising that this emotional impetus comes out sideways. A volcanic "venting" as it were. When your coping mechanism is to repress and internalize it obviously creates internal pressure that is unhealthy (gross understatement).

JC, its time to prioritize yourself. You admitted that your only outlet has been here. While this is a great place to vent, read, and learn, its no substitute for a safe place to talk and process. Please get yourself into IC post haste. If you have a good, trusted friend that you can open up to, please do so. Take time off to do just this if needs be.

Again, if there was ever a time to prioritize yourself, its now.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:00 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

The psychiatrists here are labelling her a narcissist etc. Making lots of assumptions about lying from before the marriage etc, all on little data. That bothers me. JC is already set to D, decision made. Why speculate further?

Maybe you're right. As you note, JC is moving on.

Yet he's angry, which is normal. To me, it is striking that his WW did something profoundly shitty to JC twice:

once, just before they married and JC formally stepped into stepfather role (by denying JC a child of his own);

the second time, just after the stepdaughters went off to college (by intentionally and efficiently securing another man to fuck on a regular basis). Conscious or subconscious, it feels like a pattern. Like she latched onto JC specifically and only to be a stepfather for her daughters.

At the very least, making a conscious choice to secretly define her half of the marriage as a one-sided open marriage, intentionally picking up a side piece at a bar, and then carrying on with him in a highly sexual manner, including a lot of insulting colloquy at JC's expense, is a super-shitty coda and "thank you sir" for the investment and sacrifice JC made into being a good husband and stepfather. By "sacrifice", I mean JC agreed to forego the opportunity to have kids of his own.

JC ought to (and likely does) feel a whole heaping helping of self-righteous indignation. Anybody would in that circumstance.

As for college, I would suggest that college should be a matter between JC and the daughters, not between JC and his WW. He should talk to the daughters, explain what is happening, but also explain to them that he values his relationship with them and that he will continue to cover his share of the expenses based on that relationship.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 4:27 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

I agree with Butforthegrace. Though JC is the only one of us who personally knows his wife, from the 30,000 foot view I got the following impression of her.

She seems to be very pragmatic in her use of men. They seem to serve a very specific purpose for her. When that purpose is completed, she moves on.

For instance, her first husband was able to give her children. I don't know if JC has ever had a private talk with her ex about what really happened to their marriage. We know he got the side from his wife and her family. What was the ex's side about the cause of their divorce?

Then she got with JC to help raise her children. However, just prior to their wedding she dropped the bomb on JC that if they got married she would not have any children with him. Why? We can only surmise, but my own personal opinion is that another man had already filled that purpose for her (her ex), and she only had use of JC to help raise her daughters.

Then when JC completed his purpose for her by raising her daughters she did not have much use for him any longer. Now she got another man (low-life felon) to help her in her purpose of continuing in her fun loving single years that got caught short when she married husband #1.

These choices might even be subconscious for her. In real life she might be very nice, friendly and affectionate. She might not even realize how she is making these choices about the men in her life and how she uses them for her purposes.

In her own way, and how she defines love, she probably loves JC. That is why she is now showing so much regret. However, that is not true remorse. I say that because of the barrier she placed in what she wants as a condition from their divorce... JC to continue with her daughter's tuition as a condition for divorce. If she was truly remorseful she would be thinking of how much he is hurting... not trying to milk more from him before he completes his purpose for her life.

This is just my personal opinion. Your Mileage May Vary.

@lrpprl when you put it into that perspective, I now think he really should bail on the tuition. His STBXW should just go ahead and take out a student loan to cover what should have been his part. He may love the girls, but he technically doesn't have any legal obligation. Unless the biological father signed away his rights and JC formally adopted them, he did his part. They're grown and out of the house. His STBXW is the one who broke the contract and any agreement made under that contract.

I think if he explains to the girls that he's truly sorry it happened like this, but he needs that money to start a new life, they might understand.

Starting over isn't cheap.

I wouldn’t commit to paying for your step daughters college. You are not old. You are still young enough to have kids with someone else and they’ll need college money too.

[This message edited by OhItsYou at 4:36 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

JC, from my limited vantage of your life in this shitty situation, it appears to me that you are far ahead of the game. I base this on observation of many others in your present situation and my own personal experience. I know you’ve express doubt about this but all I have to go on are your actions taken so far. With that said this group of people from all over the world have coalesced here on this site for the express purpose to help you. Let us do that. Reach. out with whatever you need and know we are here for you. There really is no shortcut through this pain. You have to spend the time. Spend it 100% for your benefit. Decide what you want to do with the rest of your life after you divorce and take steps to achieve that. Good luck on this journey.

JC: You have no legal obligation to provide college funds for STBXW's two daughters. I believe your attorney can confirm that point. You have told your STBXW that you will continue payments but will not put that promise in the divorce agreement. That is a reasonable approach and something your STBXW should readily accept. She did you extremely dirty. The least she could do is forget about trying to get you on the hook, legally, to pay for her children's college tuition.

This is what JustCrushed stated:

My WW did go see our attorney and we’re pretty much on the same page. The one thing that she wants is to lock in is my share of the college expenses. That’s a hard no for me. I’m willing to pay, but if things take a wrong turn with the girls, I don’t want to be on the hook for thousands of dollars.

It seems to me that JustCrushed doesn't want to legally obligate himself to pay for this. That’s a hard no for me. Why should he lock himself into this as part of a settlement?

From OP’s first post:

"I’m 38 and my WW is 43. We’ve been married for fourteen years. When I first met my WW she was divorced and had twin four year old girls. They were five when we got married and are now nineteen and in college."

That’s a lot of history.

OP knows what his relationship is with those girls and whether he is Dad to them, or whether he is Mum’s husband.

If the former, he has those relationships and responsibilities to take care of, irrespective of his WW. It sounds like he is being good about it. Knowing his legal obligations is always useful but decisions like this aren’t only about legal obligations.

If he would pay college anyway, and could get a favorable terms on property settlement for locking that in, he should discuss that with his lawyer.

With the twins university fee's, I see two possible perspectives.

Firstly, WW wanting to lock in the fee's in an attempt to have JC still involved with the family. Still involved with the Twins.

Secondly, JC not willing to totally commit to this, encase things with the WW and daughters going horribly wrong for him, and it becomes like a noose around his neck.

With regards to the twins JC, if you feel that your relationship with them was great and the parental bond with you strong, speak to them and keep this parental bond intake as you may be the only male/appropriate father figure that they have moving forward.

Hopefully, their mothers actions do not emotionally affect them and any relationships they have going forward.

[This message edited by paboy at 11:23 PM, Thursday, March 21st]

I really like the idea that the college contributions are between JC and the daughters, not the STBXWW.

However, I am not sure legally if he is required to use these expenses as part of a divorce settlement? Are parents even legally bound to pay for college? I don't think so but I remember a case where a daughter actually sued her parents for this. But STBXWW could end up making this a bargaining chip around other assets.

From a legal standpoint I think you are very smart to keep tuition out of court.

I know someone whose stepfather came into her life when she was three. She thinks of him as her Dad. He gave her away at her wedding. She has little to do with her bio father even tho he is a decent guy.

How do the girls view you? Do they consider you John Doe or Dad, or Pop or some other loving name. If you and they have formed a true relationship paying part of college fees is what some fathers do.

We paid for our children’s college until one decided to quit. A few years later, her husband paid and she has a great job. Another, while working full time, got his MBA. We are glad all our kids have educations but in those 2 instances once they made their decisions our obligations stopped

Look at how they manage their lives. That will tell you a lot. Also, do not keep the cheating a secret. Your stbx might spin things to make you the bad guy. Make your decision each year depending on grades which you should have access to.

Your relationship with the kids may be good, but you shouldn't let your ex still use you as a provider.

You should also consider that you and your ex will continue with new partners in the near future.

You have to understand that you can't stay in their life

you need to move on (your ex will) and remember you can have children of your own too, don't be too pessimistic about the future

It’s been a busy couple of days. I’m all set to move on the weekend. I think I’m still in shock. It’s been almost four weeks and I’ve gone from being happily married to filing for D and moving into an apartment. It just seems so surreal. WW and I have had some conversations the past few days. She seems resigned to what’s happening and I think may be depressed. I did ask he why she did it, and she couldn’t answer. She says she’s thought a lot about it and can’t come up with an answer that makes sense. She said she feels incredibly ashamed that she could so easily do what she did and hurt the one person in her life that has loved her unconditionally. She started IC this week, and feels her counselor will help her get to her core issues. It’s a little late, but for her sake, I hope she does.

The past few days at work have really been unsettling. I’ve been hit on pretty openly by four women that I would consider both accomplished and very attractive. Apparently, the word about my D has been circulating around the office. While it feels good to be wanted, frankly, it’s very awkward for me. I’m nowhere near ready for anything, and when I am, it won’t be with anyone I works with.

I’m hoping the move goes OK. I plan to talk with the girls, my in-laws and our closest friends next week. I’m not looking forward to it, but realize it’s an important step. Thanks for all the support.

Did she do any bargaining to try to reestablish the relationship? Any signs of remorse ? from what you have written, it seems pretty un emotional.

Your emotions are completely normal and natural. Sit with your emotions and fully process them. You will overcome this. You've set on a path that makes sense for you, so just focus on what you need right now. She has to work on herself.
As for the other women, it's ok to be awkward. It may be hard to fully realize this, but you're still a young man with a lot of time to live your best life (ugh...I hate that expression but it's true). You will have so many options when you're ready, and you will know yourself and more fully what you need by then. It will get better.
Stay strong.