SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My way of dealing with the situation is exactly that, MY way. I wrote a letter because that was the best way for me to communicate my concerns to my wife. I don't need someone attacking my method which is exactly what they did, hence my response. I'm here for support not to be attacked for how I deal with the situation

I’m curious, Splinky…no hidden agenda.

You’ve been with your W for 25 years…but only married for 7. Would you want to give any context for that?

And I understand how some posts may come across as challenges or even insults - particularly when you’re already dealing with wrecked emotions. But I’ve been here for quite a while…and most posts like that are usually trying to enable you to "pull up your boot straps". It’s a common regret around here for many BSs…that we didn’t pull up our boot straps soon enough. Many of us suffered much more damage in the aftermath of discovery - often times trying to save a marriage that was simply not salvageable.

Let those posts make you angry…just don’t overlook on following up internally as to why they did. Lots of gold in them thar hills. 😉❤️

Hey Splinky,

Hope you are doing okay given the tough spot you are in.

You are at the beginning of a very steep and intense learning curve. We've all been there, in one form or another. It's tough, and at the back end, we sometimes forget the emotional part, and look at things strategically. Collectively, we have all seen this shitshow before, and like rewatching a movie we've seen a thousand times, we want to fast forward to the really key parts.

Having this site is like having a cheat code to the whole infidelity process. Your WW does not have a support site for her infidelity, or at least I hope not, so she needs to navigate on her own. This gives you a strategic advantage.

As for the letter, I get it. It's how you process, but it comes across as negotiating with a cheater. You tried it. It didnt get you the result you wanted. Now you know letters dont work. Negotiations only work when there is an exchange of value. Right now, you don't really have anything she values, at least in the normal sense. That's why the 180 is so effective. You must remove something of value in her life, something she thought was rock solid. It also gives you time and space to detox and get your footing.

For the sake of disclosure, I am a red-pill (not toxic) evolutionary psychology guy. Basically, I see our base programming filed in our amygdala, and this is often in conflict with our big meaty frontal lobes. Anyway, that's why I see so many of our behaviors as having their function in a world that no longer exists.

So, all this means that I see gender differences in behaviors and survival strategies. Many (not all of course) women see strength and confidence as attactive qualities. Right now, she probably sees the AP as having these qualities. He is her dreamy guy, you are the guy wrecking her fun. Now, all of this is a fiction and a projection on her part, but when you plead, explain, and negotiate, you reinforce this view in her mind. We call it the pick-me dance and it never works. You cannot reason with her because her frontal lobes are not running the show for the most part.

I am in no way saying you should compete with the AP. What I am saying is that you need to find ways to get yourself stronger. Work on you, while stepping back from the emotional quagmire of her A. This will allow you to breathe and get your head together. It took me a while to get my head together. I was a weepy mess terrified of a life without my WW. I got stronger and realized the my WW was a pretty shitty person who I didn't like very much. This completely fucked with her world-view, as she was convinced she was the prize in this equation. Yeah, not so much.

Anyway, breathe, take things slow, listen to the advice, especially the stuff that gets under your skin as it might be what you need. If not, file it and move on. But remember, you will get through this. Hoping good things for you.

Splinky:

Posting as a member.

Sorry you find yourself here. You are doing fine so far. I respectfully disagree with the previous poster. Writing your WW a letter is perfectly fine. It’s the content of the communication, not the mode that matters. One of the sayings here is: "take the advice you can use, and leave the rest". Right now your head is swimming and you’re trying to figure out how to hold it together. Always value yourself. Do not do the pick me dance. Stay calm and think of your boundaries for your partner. Your letter confirmed that your boundary is that you will not be in a M where your partner secretly communicates with another man including sexual overtones. Your WW is free to continue these communications, texts, or whatever, but not as your W. She needs to try and reestablish your trust by being transparent and dropping her secret friend. Sometimes you need to risk losing your M, to have any chance to save it.

Good luck and keep posting.

Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with the letter. I think it’s a good approach at that time.

There’s no escalation of emotions or anger. She reads your letter in a calm rational setting that hopefully dies not (or did not) lead to an argument or heated discussion.

Her response is less than what she should have given. Her response "I don’t know what to do" is indicative of gaslightjng you and lying.

As I previously stated you may have to have the "him or me" conversation. If you go, you must follow through or else she will continue to walk all over you.

See the cheater COUNTS on you doing nothing in terms of consequences. They COUNT on you (the betrayed) Trying everything to Reconcile.

You might want to know the cheater is most likely Talking smack about you to the OM too.

I hope this helps you to see you cannot let the cheater make decisions or wait for the affair to end. The cheater is I my looking out for the cheater — not the betrayed.

Sir, so sorry you are facing this betrayal. That IS what it is btw, marital treason.

Her response of, "What do you want me to do with that?" is a brazen, in your face, frozen cold response to you, her erstwhile husband.

It seems that you are in a complete tailspin here (very understandable) and dont really know what you want.

As a former betrayed, I am in your court and hope you will get out of her infidelity with all haste but thats your call.

In the meantime, may I suggest you enact a hard 180? If you go to tbe healing library, you will find an article entitled "Understanding the 180" which you can use as a starting point.

I hope you can find clarity. Your wife is betraying and gaslighting you.

You have done nothing wrong. You are in a VERY difficult situation. Don't take the posters here personally, unfortunately, sometimes a posting like this can trigger latent anger and frustration in FBS's and BS's.

To clarify something, the guy is single which for me adds more of a sinister element to the whole situation.

He is actually not the problem. Married or single, etc, his behavior has no impact upon a spouse with good boundaries. My FWS's AP was married, serial cheater, but the problem was my wife was behaving in a way that advertised her poor boundaries.

Keep that in mind. He is just some random.

What do you do now? You don't have to do anything. You do what you think is best. I know I did.

In my case, I tried to deal with my wife's unusual behavior toward me, not realizing she was fucking someone else. I'd never been in this situation before, I didn't understand that someone I'd married, treating me with total disregard, meant that there was likely someone else. We had 4 children, house, dogs, cats, jobs, an affair was the last thought, until I found out a man had visited the house to do yard work, but I couldn't see what work had been done. I thought she might be filing for divorce, but the fog of lies obscured everything. I confronted, but was met with angry denials and conflict. Little did I know what had actually gone on at our house, etc.

Your situation is different, you can see it more clearly than we can, and all of us FBS's have been damaged by what we experienced.

Keep that in mind.

From these forums, take what you can use, leave the rest. Whatever you do, get IC help if you can. Don't do this alone, I did, it was Hell on earth.

Oh Splinky,
I'm very sorry this has happened to you. In a former life I was a barfly of some repute. Sadly I have seen this situation more than once before. A bar employee catches the eye of a regular.....and they exchange pleasantries..maybe a drink or two at the other side of the bar once a shift ends...and then the story takes a predictable turn.

The story often is titled :Alcohol, Cheap Compliments, and Poor Boundaries.

Your wife is seeing things through the lens of somebody who is being told the most wonderful things by somebody who is not her husband. In a setting where her inhibitions are obviously lowered.

You say you have been together for 25 years. All the things you do for her and say to her she expects you to do and say, because well, you are her husband...you are supposed to(in her mind). Bar guy is exciting,new and different. He has the benefit of having the liquor tongue (no pun intended) and being attentive to her existence at the bar. He has thus far been rewarded with off hours convos and employment help at a minimum. Probably more but that can't be proven at present.

This won't end well....these things usually don't. At some point she is going to cave to his charms and cross the line if it hasn't already been crossed. Especially with the Holidays upon us... I suspect it already has.

She really doesn't understand the only thing she has in common with Bar Guy is THE BAR. Alcohol, Cheap Compliments and Poor Boundaries....

I urge you think bout what you are willing to put up with. The time is fast approaching where you may feel the need to present your wife with an ultimatum. However beware that ultimatums rarely work because the issuer isn't prepared to follow through with consequence. Think long and hard about what leaving her looks like.

In the meantime, try to read up on the 180 so you can detach from her low drama that budding bar romances usually are.

Fareast mentioned that you do not know what you want when he said, "right now your head is swimming, and you are trying to hold it together."

That is very true at this stage of your discovery. Your thoughts are all over the place and will be for a few weeks. Eventually your anger about the injustice which she has heaped on your head will take over and your thoughts will become clearer on what you want.

In the meantime, you could be making a list. My wife is big on lists. She is extremely detailed oriented, and you appear to be that way also. My wife has lists all over the house and she is always reviewing and revising them.

One thing I have learned is that I might get one thing I want… maybe even two… but I will never get everything I want. The probabilities of getting everything go down exponentially with each added want.

As you make this list first start with what is known as a base fact or situation in which to add the wants.

… My wife cheated. (that is the known base fact for the list).

Now start adding your wants or things you want to happen on to that known factor. You might even add your own estimation of the probability of getting "everything" on the list. Just keep in mind that each time you add another want or wish the probabilities of getting "everything" keeps going down.

The list might then look something like this:

… My wife cheated.

… My wife cheated… she is staying with me.

… My wife cheated… she is staying with me… she is remorseful for the pain she has caused me.

… My wife cheated… she is staying with me… she is remorseful for the pain she has caused me… she is now completely honest with me.

… My wife cheated… she is staying with me… she is remorseful for the pain she has caused me… she is now completely honest with me… she will never cheat on me again.

… My wife cheated… she is staying with me… she is remorseful for the pain she has caused me… she is now completely honest with me… she will never cheat on me again… I will get over it and completely heal all this pain.

… My wife cheated… she is staying with me… she is remorseful for the pain she has caused me… she is now completely honest with me… she will never cheat on me again… I will get over it and completely heal all this pain… she goes out of her way to make me happy.

… Etc., etc.

Only you can make your list as only you know your personality and the personality of your wife. We internet strangers can only make suggestions. This list is one that you should spend a lot of time with because it can help point you in the direction of your future. I would suggest that you take out this list every few days and ponder it… either adding to it or removing some wants or wishes from it. If it were me, I would take at least a month, probably longer, to compose it.

As you can see when you make a list like this, with each added want or wish the probability goes down dramatically until you get to practically zero. That is when you need to decide what you can or cannot live with.

For instance, take the first want… she is staying with me. I have seen several studies, and the statistics vary greatly on this subject, but many show that there is a 75% chance or greater that partners will stay together after infidelity occurs in a marriage. Many reasons for that including children and finances. Many times, it is not economically possible to split one household into two households. Each marriage has its own personal reasons to remain together.

So, you might assign your own percentage that your wife will remain with you after she is confronted with indisputable evidence of her cheating. You know her better than anyone else, so knowing her you might assign a 75% or greater chance she will remain with you.

The next added want or wish on the list is "she is remorseful for the pain she has caused me". As we all know, remorse is quite different than regret. As you read through the Reconciliation forum you can begin to see that difference. Remorse involves having total empathy for what you are going through. It is quite different than her saying "I don’t know what you want me to do with that?".

It is my personal opinion that most cheaters are incapable of becoming remorseful unless they make major changes in their lives. It was selfishness that caused a cheater to cheat in the first place. Most regret getting caught, but that regret is all about them... not you. For someone to become remorseful and contrite, they have to not only see your pain, but empathize with that pain. A selfish person just cannot do that because it is no longer about them, but about someone else whom they deeply hurt.

You know your wife better than we strangers. Ask yourself some questions about her, such as, does she take ownership of her actions, or does she blame others? Right now, she is acting in her own best interests and has no regard for you. If she had any regard or concern for you, she would have stopped this affair, or better still, she would have never begun her cheating ways. Over the 25 years you two have been together has she always been this way? Has she always been this selfish, or is this a recent development? If it is a recent development, it might be easier for her to become remorseful. If she has been selfish most of her life, then she might be incapable of becoming remorseful. That is entirely up to her.

As you add to the list you will see that your chances of getting it all go down as the list increases. The odds are better at getting one wish than two... getting two wishes is better than getting all three... etc.

Please don’t do this in haste. Take all the time you need. Read it often and make changes when they occur to you.

I hope there is something here you can use.

Yeah your wife is blowing it, categorically:

-Giving out her number to another man.

-Giving out her number on the down low.

-Non-transparent comms with another man

-Deleting texts

-Moving to a covert comms text app. (Snapchat)

-Moving to the covert text app AFTER you voiced concerns.

-Dismissing your very clearly stated and rational, legitimate concerns.

-Continuing and then taking said comms underground.

-Allowing sexual innuendo laced comms with the opposite sex.

-She’s fighting to maintain her comms with the other guy, MORE THAN SHE’s FIGHTING FOR THE MARRIAGE. She’s prioritizing this relationship over your concerns and taking risks with your precious marriage. She is dismissing you, but not him.

You are not over reacting. She will try and convince you otherwise. You are not being controlling, jealous or insecure. She will try and convince you otherwise. This is not your fault, you don’t deserve this, and you shouldn’t have to put up with it for a moment longer.

It sounds like you’ve made your concerns and expectations clear. I would then clearly state consequences for noncompliance. I would follow that up with IC and MC and suggested reading such as Dr Shirley Glass’s "Not Just Friends".

And then, I would invoke The 180 if she refuses to comply.

And, most importantly, I would intensely, but discreetly monitor. Let the smoke clear and monitor to see if she continues and takes things underground. Step up your surveillance techniques. Consider a VAR in her car, hiring a PI, etc. I’m not saying to lay in wait to see how far she takes things, I’m saying to tactically time and proportion your actions carefully with your findings and evidence. You do this so that you’re always confronting her from a position of strength and confidence and to avoid manipulation.

Because she hasn’t crossed any lines, in her mind, she’s going to easily convince herself and her support network, that you’re being ridiculous, controlling, insecure, abusive, "Why am I not allowed to have male friends??"

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 12:53 AM, Monday, December 11th]

Spinky

Remember back in the days when weed was called the gateway-drug for stronger drugs? When people thought that taking one toke would lead you more-or-less directly to heroin within a year? Well… In some ways emotional affairs are the gateway-affairs for infidelity…

You can have an emotional connection to someone of the opposite sex and it might not be sexual in any way or form. It can be a deep friendship and in no way intended to progress to anything beyond that. Just like some people can smoke weed socially or occasionally with no intent or risk on starting to mainline horse in the near or distant future.
But… it can progress in the wrong direction, and frankly it does sound like your wife’s relationship with this man has done that.

The problem with emotional affairs is that too often those involved don’t see it that way. If you are making out or having sex with someone other than your spouse, there really isn’t much space for uncertainty. With this emotional "friendship" and light flirting… well… a WS can quite easily justify that as not infidelity.

What I would do is the following:
There is a definite Bible for emotional affairs written by the person most responsible for them being acknowledged as real infidelity, the late Dr. Shirley Glass. That book has already been mentioned: Not Just Friends. Get a copy and demand your wife reads it – with you in the room. In fact you can get an audio-copy and both of you listen. The goal of this is for her to recognize both or either of the following:
That she might be in an emotional affair with this man, and that she needs checks and balances to make you feel safe.
IF this is only a "friendship" then the book should help her understand your concerns, why they are valid and what she needs to do to assure you.

That’s the first step. Chances are she won’t agree to it or take it seriously and/or find some The second is a bit drastic, can be done irrespective of the first, but IMHO it’s necessary:
Let your wife know that she’s free to be with this man if that’s what she wants. Tell her that to YOU it’s already an affair, and the only question is how far along it is. They have the emotional connection, and the only question is if they have gotten physical, kissed and so on. Tell her that she’s free to go have him ravage her on the pool-table at the pub, hang about with him and whatever… Only… NOT AS YOUR WIFE.

That until and unless she shows you with accountable actions that she’s cut off communications OR assured you that this is not an emotional affair you are simply working from the basis that she has elected not to be your wife and that the marriage is therefore over.
No drama, no rush. Don’t have to pack a bag or huff and puff while throwing her bedding on the sofa. You simply stop doing "married" stuff and prepare for the inevitable separation.
Like… go through the finances, cancel the trip to Spain, stop looking at a larger house… Check the laws in your neck for divorce.
And… let stakeholders know. Let friends and family, possibly her boss at work etc know that you and Mrs. Spinky are headed for divorce due to her decision that her friendship with Mr. Wonderful is more important. Heck… I would call her boss and let him know that despite Mrs. Spinky’s recommendation you would appreciate he didn’t hire OM and explain why. Bosses seldom want drama in their workplace…

And… talk openly about it. When she comes home from work, simply ask "How was work? Was your lover there? Have you decided if you two will move in together once we wrap this up?", and "since you are committed to your infidelity then have you considered where you will be living once we have to sell this house / joint lease is up / once my name if off this lease". Make the affair and it’s consequences real. Burst the fantasy she might be living in right now, where she has a (possibly potential) lover and a husband trying to keep hold on her.

I can tell you the initial reaction from her: None.

But if you hold out – if