SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone, I have just joined and this is my first post. My wife and I have been together for 25 years, married for 7. A couple of years ago I encouraged her to apply for a cleaning job at a local pub which she got. After a while they asked her if she wanted to start working behind the bar which is the perfect job for her as she is very sociable.
After a while I noticed a new name kept commenting on her Facebook posts and when I mentioned it she said that he was a regular and they got along well, they are the same age and have lots of friends in common. One day she was showing me something on her phone when a text came through from this guy, I asked why he had her number and she said that he asked her for it so they swapped, I made it clear that I wasn't happy with it but she just dismissed it, "we're just mates".
Roll forward several months and she's left her phone in the kitchen after being in the pub all afternoon on her day off while I'm in there and it makes a noise, I just catch a message saying "did you get in trouble"
Curiosity overcame me and I opened her phone and found that they have been messaging constantly for months, even in the early hours of the morning. Although her messages were fine, his contained sexual references. I wrote her a letter to explain how I felt and she said "I don't know what you want me to do with that".
Despite laying everything down she continues to message him only now she has deleted all old messages and they only use Snapchat so everything is deleted immediately. I'm at a complete loss with where I go from here

I’m so sorry you’re here mate. It’s an awful situation and she doesn’t care about the damage she’s causing you. You can read my story in my bio, I now don’t believe for a minute it was ‘just’ an emotional affair and I’d say prepare yourself for the same. Especially as she constantly sees him in person at the pub.

You need to put your foot down, she should leave that pub job and get another one. No contact with this guy and if he’s married go and tell his wife.

I’ll be honest, if I had a time machine I would have left her straight after D day. I’ve been to hell and back trying to fix things with someone who doesn’t care. Id caution anyone not to do the same.

I’m so sorry you are facing this nightmare. Here’s my thoughts based on experience.

She never told you the truth that they were in contact via text or Snapchat. Red flag IMO!

If it was truly nothing, from the get go, why hide it? Because she knew there was more to it and hid it. They are not just friends. There is interest there on both sides.

I’m Not saying it’s been a physical affair, but I’m saying there appears to be interest.

You are being disrespected and lied to. It’s a short slippery slope to you saying this has to end and her refusing and her running to this guy about how you are controlling and demanding and evil. Typical cheater behavior by the way. The cheater needs to justify the affair so they demonize the betrayed spouse. You are now the bad guy for trying to enforce or set boundaries.

I lived with a 4 year emotional affair my H had that he refused to admit. Made me out to be jealous blah blah blah. He knew it was wrong but didn’t care.

He then had a second affair but that was physical. And then he planned with the other woman (ow) to divorce me.

Looking back I should have left him after he refused to admit to the first EA (emotional affair).

I hope this helps you gather some perspective. Read up on the 180 and the pick me dance in the Healing Library here at SI.

Don’t do the pick me dance. It never works.

Do consider the hard 180 as a means to protect yourself. It won’t end the affair. But it will give you a chance to get some perspective and let her know you won’t be pushed around and just accept that you are ok w/ having a spouse who lies and cheats.

Maybe you need to tell her either quit the job or we are going to end up separated or divorced. Her choice.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:04 PM, Saturday, December 9th]

Here's the problem: she will never understand what this feels like to you until she feels it herself. You should create a mock conversation that looks similar to those you saw her have with him. Invent a female character to be "talking to" and then have that female make sexual jokes or advances toward you. You can ignore them in the "conversation" but have her persist. Then show your wife and see what her reaction is.

If she doesn't seem to care, you might be in deeper trouble than you think. If she gets upset, tell her "you're just mates" and let her stew a bit before you let her in on it. I know it sounds a bit manipulative, but I get it. I used to have issues letting girls get too close to me and would have conversations bordering on dangerous. My wife was always really bothered by it, and I would react by getting argumentative, even secretive. It wasn't until I saw her doing the same thing (having a Snapchat conversation with a much younger, more attractive guy in which -not nudity, but still inappropriate- photos were being exchanged that broke my heart) that I finally understood why boundaries exist.

[This message edited by Icedover84 at 2:11 PM, Friday, December 8th]

Because you read all the texts and saw no direct evidence of a PA you may have caught this before your WW went down the slippery slope. I am not sure what you wrote to her but it sounds like you need to be more direct with what you need, nit just explain how you feel. I will say that if you explained how you feel well, it's quite dissappointing she has kept up with her behavior and pretty much proves she is in a full blown EA. Your partner of 25 years says he's upset with you talking constantly to another man and you don't know what to do? And you don't change? That is at least an EA. And she needs to hear that very directly.

What did she say about the sexual overtones?

Does she realize men don't invest that much time with women if they aren't hoping for sex and or love? If she doesn't realize that, what is she, 14?

Has she ever considered her boundaries? Get the book Not Just Friends and have her read it. It has helped many people here with infidelity.

Be direct with what you need to happen. Be direct that she is giving another man the emotional intimacy that should be reserved for only you. That's cheating and puts her on a slippery slope for a PA

Inform the other man's partner if he has one. ASAP.

If she can't establish boundaries, she needs to leave the job. She clearly is enjoying the attention and doesn't yet know the damage she's doing.

These things are rarely not physical, when distance isn't a factor.

Men don't get involved with married women,to send messages. They're in it for the sex.

She's telling you her involvement with this man,is more important than her marriage,and you.

Don't confront again. Put a voice activated recorder under the driver seat in her car. You'll know within days.

Don't have sex with her. You would be exposing yourself to possible stds.

I'm sorry.

I am sorry you find yourself here but you will receive good support. Here’s what you know: you’ve made your concerns known to her and she has chosen to continue to message her AP, and take it underground. We have no idea how far this relationship has gone. Understand that you can’t control her. She will do what she wants. And you are not trying to be controlling. But your own personal boundary is that you do not tolerate your partner carrying on secret conversations with sexual overtones with another man. I would explain it in these terms and begin the 180. Read about the 180 and other great info in the healing library. Good luck.

Welcome to SI and sorry that you've had reason to join us. There are some pinned posts at the top of the page that you might find helpful. Also, the Healing Library has a lot of information, including the list of acronyms we use.

I would say that this is an EA, if it hasn't already become physical. Does the man have a wife? If so, please let the OBS (other betrayed spouse) know.

Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass is a good book. It has a quiz that you and/or your WW (wayward wife) can take that will indicate whether the situation is an A (affair). From what you've written here, it is. There is another chapter that is really good about setting boundaries between those outside of the M (marriage).

Unfortunately, cheaters lie, and then they lie some more.They also have a tendency to rewrite the marital history, so don't be surprised to hear lots of lies. Cheaters have a unique way of thinking. Also, try not to apply logic to the situation because the whole thing is illogical.

Mate, I am sorry this is happening to you.

Others have mentioned the 180 and, in my opinion, it is the best tool available to you now. Your wife is in an affair, emotional or otherwise, and refuses to stop. She is playing "dumb", but she damn well knows what she is doing.

The 180 is found in the Healing Library under Betrayed Spouses FAQ.

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/

The purpose of the 180 is not to punish her, nor to "win her back" (pick me dance). The purpose is for you to gain some mental distance from the situation and begin to view her in a more objective manner. It is for your own personal growth. The more you take charge of your own personal life, the more attractive you become to not only your wife but other women. The 180 keeps you from looking pathetic.

There is nothing in the 33 points of the 180 that tells you to act mean, cold or inconsiderate. In fact, it tells you to act the opposite... cheerful, outgoing, considerate, etc.

The enemy of infidelity is being "unpredictable". Right now, she knows you like the back of her hand and how you will react in any given situation. Using the 180 correctly, she will begin to see you as a confident man with his own life... his own life which may or may not include her. A man who no longer depends on her for his own happiness. As you make new friends and begin new hobbies, or resume old hobbies, she will see you as an attractive someone she wants to be with... not as a boring, predictable man she comes home to each day.

As someone mentioned, quit having sex with her while she is in this affair. It is your life and your health and you need to protect yourself.

Do not let her know you are visiting this site. This site is your safe harbor and we are here to support you.

Good luck.

^^^
What they all said.

she said that he asked her for it so they swapped

She works in a pub, serves liquor, and knows exactly why he ask her for her number. She now uses something that deletes the messages immediately. She does this even though she knows you are concerned about this relationship.

We tend to see these things through the lens of our own experience.

Unfortunately, as the books that have been suggested will explain, our own experience tends to be the same experience over and over and over again with multiple different marriages.

As you read through some of the stories here, you will see the same pattern of behavior that your wife is demonstrating.

They exchanged phone numbers, he makes sexual comments, you discover what is going on, she does not cut off contact, then she/they take it underground with Snapchat.

After what I went through, after reading all the shit I had to read because of what my wife did, after putting up with more lies than I could possibly count, after more excuses than I can possibly remember, after a giant and destructive cloud of gaslighting, after multiple years of counseling, after near divorce on a couple of occasions, my lens only tells me what happened in my own marriage.

However, when someone does all this stuff, and says they are "just friends", that usually means they are already physically involved.

Her messages were not fine. In a marriage, where someone is being faithful to their marriage, and someone outside person makes sexual comments to them, they cut that person off, if they value their marriage. They do this because they know it endangers their marriage.

There's are choices for and against the marriage. Your wife is making the wrong choices for your marriage.

This is the same type of choice people make when they take a luxury car, and park it in an out of the way place, where cars are known to be stolen, and leave the keys in it, with a sign on it that says "available, keys inside".

Do not let her know you are visiting this site. This site is your safe harbor and we are here to support you.

To this purpose, unless it’s a nom de plume you may want to change your signature and make your location a bit more general.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm still kind of digesting everything at the moment.
To clarify something, the guy is single which for me adds more of a sinister element to the whole situation. My wife hasn't realised that she is on the Snapchat map so I can see when she is or has been on there, today it was 5am! Something I forgot to add is that when the guy lost his job, she put him forward for a cleaning job at the pub which he got and works 6-8am so they were chatting before he started working today.
For clarity, she doesn't start until 10 and takes our daughter to school so it can't have been an excuse to see him more. I think...

Sorry dude. More red flags than Chinese military parade here. Can you afford a PI? Can you afford NOT to get one?

Your WW has a cheater’s mindset….and her behavior is currently aligning with that. Based on your description these two things seem to currently be facts.

I completely understand that you want more facts. I can also imagine you don’t want this current "thing" to proceed any further.

Which leaves you in a difficult position with a difficult choice.

You can confront in hopes that she will change. You have, she has - just not the kind of change you hope to see. Nonetheless, this is still valuable info.

Now what?

I’m not pushing you toward any particular behavior or reaction. I’m just trying to figure out what option is most sustainable for you based on what you most value. Do you want to act as a gatekeeper of commitment for your partner…or do you want a partner that simply won’t cheat? (However you may define that.)

Oh boy - 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 alert!!

There is opportunity if they work at the same place to be physical. On the clock. Before work. He stays late. She gets there early.

They meet for coffee. Or more.

Not a good situation - she needs to quit that job. If she refuses then you know this affair is much more serious (and possibly physical).

It’s either that stupid job or your marriage. Trust me I was in this game. I was ready and armed if he didn’t choose me. Sad to say he did but it was a lie. And I immediately knew it. But STUPIDLY I trusted him when he said it was over.

Nope - it was just moved to places I could not see if he was cheating or not in contact w/ the OW like Skype etc.

However I wasn’t kidding either when it told him I was D him a few months later. And you know what? I meant it. He thought he could continue to lie and manipulate me. Inside of 5 minutes he lost all control and I was no longer a doormat. I never bs led down from the fight and my H saw a side of me he never wished to see.

Badass here - winning!!!!

So I've popped out this evening but kept an eye on Snapchat and she's been on and off the whole time I've been out. She hadn't been on it all day.
Why do I do this to myself?! It's tearing me apart

Your wife is cheating so you write her a letter? And you're surprised she's still "texting" this guy.

She probably told him, "he knows we're talking and he wrote me a letter.."

A man has come into your home (effectively) and taken your wife..and your response is?

Yes I wrote a letter. What difference does that make? Should I have charged in like a bull in a china shop??

You can drive yourself nuts with all the cloak and dagger stuff trying to catch her out. It’s not worth it. Even if you were to catch her, what would it achieve? It’s not like a UK court would decide ‘she’s been cheating therefore she loses the house’.

Go and read up on the tactical primer, 180 and healing library. Get your finances in order and see a solicitor to look at the scenarios if you were to split with your wife. You might not want to do this stuff but you really should.

Once you’re armed with this information you can think about confronting your wife and setting boundaries for your relationship.

Yes I wrote a letter. What difference does that make? Should I have charged in like a bull in a china shop??

Gently, but your anger at your WW and yourself is now being directed at a poster who had literally zero to do with this situation.

Stay focused, and use that energy where it is needed...focusing on your WW, who is likely in a physical affair, not just an emotional one.