SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am sorry, this will be a bit long. I am floored with how many people I see that are also saying they are back.

I want to start by giving a little background on myself. I am 41 and mother to DS(14) and DD(12). My current H and I have been married for almost 15 years. I actually found this website over 16 years ago after I divorced my first husband. To say that this place and the people in it saved my existence would be an understatement. I am trying to remember all of the rules, so I am posting here first for my emotional safety, but if it needs to move, please feel free. I couldn't for the life of me remember my screen name and all of the email accounts I had from back then are disabled.

When I started here so long ago, I was actually the WP. I had an ONS and immediately felt sick, regretful, angry, terrified..just all of the feelings. I was an absolute horrible person to my XH. He actually wanted to work it out, but in my head I did not want to be married anymore with a side of, I didn’t deserve him, with a heaping portion of, I am the world’s biggest F’up and deserve to die single old miserable woman for what I did. Morally it was completely out of character for me. I read so many posts here before I posted in Wayward and realized that while I did an absolute atrocious thing, I wasn’t a horrible person. I went to therapy, read so many books, and have so many more boundaries for myself.

But as I said, I am back, only this time, I am the BS (with no MadHatter in this relationship). Our relationship was incredibly fast and if I am honest with myself and all of you, I should never have entered into to it. I was still way to raw and unhealed, but I was also scared, lonely, and alone. We were both single and had an immediate lust attraction. I was drunk with the idea that even though he knew my history, he still liked me. A few months together and surprise! we found out we were pregnant with DS. We got married and well….the rest is history as they say.

As far as I know, H (47) has never had a PA, only EA’s. I say as far as I know, but it’s mostly just because I have never found solid evidence of one. It does not make this any better, just giving information. The first EA was about 5 years in, which I thought would be the last because we actually did go to therapy, we worked on us. I stopped looking through his phone and computer, I felt good about our relationship. A few months prior to our 10 year anniversary, I had a large kidney stone and was at home recovering when I saw his email open on our home computer. This is when I found out he had a secret email account I knew nothing about. I was stupid and made him disable it immediately. I should have kept it going so that I could get the real truth, not just what he fed me. I have honestly never trusted him since.

We moved to our current home in 2020 when he changed jobs. He worked nights and I couldn’t sleep one night and hopped onto our computer. He had left his Facebook page open, and he was getting message from a woman at like 2am. None of the messages were sexually explicit, however,

1. Why was he asking to meet a woman, in a park, at 2am
2. Why did she feel the need to let him know that she was in a relationship now, so they could only talk.

He swears there was nothing physical – I on the other hand, don’t believe that for a second.

I pretty much broke as a person after that. I don't recognize myself anymore. He has and did and does refuse any and all therapy for himself, for us, and as a family. He refuses to read any books with me. Refuses to do any self lead couples help with me. He just wants to sweep it right under the rug.

I am not proud of this, but about a year ago, I figured out the code on his work phone. He doesn’t know I know. Honestly, since I have known it, I have seen nothing nefarious. Until last week. I found deleted message between him and a woman and again…nothing sexual, but the innuendo’s and his past history gives me the feeling that this is only a small portion of their interactions. I took pictures of everything so he couldn’t fully delete them and then gaslight me.

I am not ready to have this conversation. Half of me wants to just leave right now. The other half for some ungodly reason, wants to find out if they actually have been or will become physical. I can’t confront him with how I know, because then he will change the code on his phone, but I have no idea how to have this conversation without the proof I have.

At this point, I know what I should do, but I can’t seem to pull the trigger. I know that it’s fear, but practically, I just can’t afford to leave with the kids. I can’t afford our house on my own (even with child support). If it was just me, I would find a one bedroom or studio in a heartbeat and file for divorce.

I can’t be in a marriage with someone who I don’t think I will ever trust again. Even if I confront and he actually starts doing all of the things I need him to do, I would constantly just wait for the other shoe to drop.

And for some stupid reason, I still love him. I know that there is nothing wrong with that, but man does it make it hard to get off this damn fence.

Welcome back to SI and sorry for your return. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that you may find helpful. The Healing Library has a ton of information, too. I hope you've already started reading, as you'll need the betrayed perspective this time around.

If he's not wanting to change to be a safe partner, it sounds like you won't have much to work with towards R. What do you want out of the relationship? You don't have to decide today, but this is a good time to reflect on what you need.

I’m sorry you are facing this for a second time. Doesn’t make it any easier even though you know what to expect.

Is he cheating? My gut says yes it’s more than an EA. It’s been going on for a long time and for periods you may not even know about. 😢

Do not tell him how you got your evidence. Never ever give the cheater your secrets. The conversation is "I know you are cheating and inappropriate w/ women". You do not have to prove anything to him and if he plays that game, don’t engage.

But that will also show you that you have no real hope of R b/c he is more interested in protecting himself and continued lying to you.

You are not required to confront him.

However you do need to protect yourself. See a lawyer, get some counseling for yourself and maybe consider STD testing as well.

I’m sorry you are in this difficult situation.

What do you want out of the relationship?

I honestly don't even know right now. Trust, communication, honesty for starters.

We used to be so close. We would talk to each other all the time about so much. With each betrayal, I lost trust and safety in our relationship. We barely talk anymore about literally anything. There hasn't been an in depth conversation in our marriage for years, about anything. Not about our hobbies, current events, our jobs, anything. We talk about the kids and finance, and that's pretty much it. I would LOVE to be able to talk to him about all of my worries, fears, craziness, ect, but he's not a safe person for me anymore.

Physically in our lives, he's amazing. He takes care of the cars, the house, works incredibly hard. He's amazing with the kids and I love that. But he's distant with me unless he wants sex and he only ever touches me when he expects it, so now I have like, touch trauma or something. I want intimacy without the expectation.

Emotionally, there's nada. He doesn't support me in anything I want or need. I have a girls weekend every year that is sacred to me and since my girlfriends and I started this about 8 years ago, he's made me feel guilty about doing it every year. Like, what husband or hell Friend even would make someone feel guilty about taking some much needed time away for 4 days, one time every year? Whenever I get interested in anything, he will poke holes into my balloon of excitement, to the point where I will just drop the idea altogether.

I have gotten MUCH better about doing things regardless of his reaction, but it's so exhausting!

My cheating XWS also gave me crap for my once-a-year girls long weekend.So weird. My XWS didn’t have any friends and hated that I did.

Take care of you and your kids. Eat healthy, avoid alcohol, exercise, and get sleep. See your doctor if you are having any trouble eating or sleeping, and you should get a full panel STD/STI test. Sorry — but if he has been physical, then you need to do this.

See a lawyer just to understand what D might look like. Knowledge is power and helps to quell all those scary unknowns.

And think about if you need proof. You are in a trust-less, sex-less, emotion-less marriage. Is this what you want? Is this what you want your kids to see modeled for them? If he is unwilling to address these issues, then you don’t have much to work with.

As a former WS, you understand that if the WS isn’t willing to look hard at themselves and fix the issues that caused them to cheat, then R is not possible. And you know you can’t make him do anything, least of all a deep introspective.

As for how to confront, maybe use the STD panel as a launching pad? Not sure- hopefully others will have ideas for you.

Hang in there. You don’t have to make a decision today.

I never thought seeing 'former WS' would make me feel some type of way, but it does. It's the truth though. I could never ever go down that road again. And yes, I guess I do have the added ability to see both sides of this, but I am not sure that it's a help right now.

We are trustless and emotionless, but to my own shame I guess, it's not sex-less. Being attracted to each other sexually has rarely been an issue. I will get tests done, I just need some time first.

I am not sure that I can't confront though. I have thought about just saying "we are done" and leaving it at that.

The closest I came was last Thursday night when he knew something was bothering me. I can't hide my feelings. I told him that he's hurt me and I believe he knows what he's done, but that I can't talk about it right now because I don't want to say anything out of anger and hurt. Since then, he's been more attentive, but has not made any attempt to admit anything.

The ball is in my court to start this conversation, so I don't expect him to do that. We live in a small town, so I have thought about saying something to the effect of "we live in a small down, did you think I would never find out?" After that though, I have no idea how to take that conversation. Usually I am very good at discussions and such, but this is so close to home and highly emotional, that I am afraid I will just lose it.

Typically married men don't enter into affairs to send messages and just talk. They're in it for the sex.

Get tested for stds.

He sounds like a horrible husband, even without the cheating.

It's ok not to reconcile. It's ok to be done. He's a serial cheater. They have a high risk of cheating again. Especially when they don't do the work.

Save yourself.

Typically married men don't enter into affairs to send messages and just talk. They're in it for the sex.

For the most part I agree. WH however gets off on just having the control and ego kibble.

He fancies himself a Dom and gets just as much, if not more enjoyment out of being able to tell a women what to do and her do it.

The very first one was not physically. She lived in another state. He would send her emails with chores and instructions that she had to follow.

Yes, this type of behavior was known to me when we got together. I was not fully opposed to the dynamic, but we never found a happy medium as I am not really a sub. I had no issue with having that dynamic in the bedroom, but he apparently has always needed it in many facets of life.

One of his complaints throught our marriage is that I have to control everything and him. I have looked back and really looked at my actions and while there was some necessary control when I was doing all of the financial stuff for us, for the most part, he was free to be.

I see the same type of style here too. Very authoritative language from him and meeker language from her. I am not naive to think that he's never not been physical, and have been tested in the past.

  Moving to General

His kink is being a dom. I'd bet you were an excellent sub in his eyes when you met due to the damage you inflicted on yourself in the demise of your first marriage. That damage prevented you from fixing your last marriage and led you to this one. You are not that person anymore. Nor should you be. You shouldn't have married so soon after your D, but you did. You have allowed your WH to inflict damage on you to bring you closer to where you were where you met.

It's almost assuredly worse than you know. Likely worse than you suspect and even possibly worse than you fear. Is your marriage what you would want for your children? Because you are modeling relationships to them now.

Grubs - I don't know how to give you a prize, but yeah, you nailed the hell out of it for him.

Sadly, I saw it happening to as I was healing. He still hates that I do things without him, have hobbies he doesn't enjoy. Anything that takes my attention away from the family is an afront to him.

I actually remember the exact moment that our dynamic finally shifted permanently and it's been a thorn in our marriage's side ever since. It happened after the first affair I caught, but it didn't even have anything to do with an affair, it was because my father was living with us temporarily and he was mad that my father wouldn't help out around the house. Well, my dad was paying rent, so it's not like he wasn't contributing anything. I asked WH to sit and have a conversation on what he needed from my father for him to feel better about him staying with us until he could get his own apartment, but WH wasn't interested in that. WH said that if my dad didn't leave then he would. Well, I sure as hell wasn't kicking my father out to be homeless.

When I got home from work WH was still mad at me and started to pack his bags. It was the first time that I didn't cry and ask him to stay. It was the first time I was like 'Ok'. I gathered all of his dirty clothes and started to walk out to the laundry room and he said "what are you doing?" I told him "well, where ever you are going, you might as well have all clean clothes" and walked away. When I came back into the room to get more he's like "well, don't you even want to talk about this and work it out?"

I said back "Do you? Because I am not the one packing my bags to leave." I could literally see the system shutdown and reboot. I could hear his thoughts like "this isn't going the way it was supposed to go."

From then on I was more who I was before my first marriage. Doing things I enjoy. Just because I go away for a weekend, it's not taking away from the family. If I volunteer somewhere because I enjoy it, it's taking away from the family. My hobbies do not take anything away from the family.

I have also told him that it's not my fault that he doesn't go out and do things for himself/with friends. That he needs to stop getting angry and trying to make me guilty at 'all the fun stuff I get to do" because I have never stopped him from anything he's wanted to do.

I have also told him that a good husband would actually SUPPORT their spouse and be happy that they get to experience fun things, EVEN IF, they don't get to partake in them. But yea, that went over like a lead balloon.

He's not you. You made mistakes in your first marriage. You compounded them on your exit. But you learned from that and grew to understand your failures and healed to become a better person. He hasn't learned from his mistakes. He doesn't even see them as mistakes.

Neither of will be happy together long term. He wants the damaged subservient woman you were when you met. You want to be a healthy person instead. If you don't want to D, I'd suggest you read up on the 180 and start moving forward with that. Because he's shown no signs of being remorseful. To wanting to be a safe partner for you. That 180 will limit the damage to you. Because you don't deserve what he's done. No one does and he's unlikely to stop.

I hear you Grub.

In my heart I know that he will never change or see that his way of being in this relationship is what is killing it. I read through the 180 and it appears that I have naturally done many of those things listed. I haven't pushed him away, but I don't chase him, and haven't for a long time.

He's never gotten more interested in me though. He's gotten more resentful. Resentful that I find joy in anything outside him and the family. In his mind, since he's not the center of my world anymore, then he just won't put in the effort either.

Ugg....this is a mess.

He's never gotten more interested in me though. He's gotten more resentful. Resentful that I find joy in anything outside him and the family. In his mind, since he's not the center of my world anymore, then he just won't put in the effort either.

this is exactly how my xWS was. He's a diagnosed Narcissist (not saying yours is but the whole devaluing after not being the center of attention is a definite trait).

That's when my M started to go down the drain when the relationship started getting more difficult, if I didn't worship him and the ground he walked on, and if I pointed out any behaviors in him that were distressing to me, he would give me the silent treatment and pull way back.

I agree with Grubs completely.

He wants to control you. Full stop. In the kitchen, in the bedroom, in your girls’ trip. None of it matters…it’s just how what does really matter is manifesting. They’re all just symptoms.

You do know that the issue at the heart of affairs is control, don’t you?

His cheating now is likely because of his intent to control…and that need is also likely being aggravated by his every inability to control you. Can you see how maybe you got here?

What can you give up? That’s what’s really at the heart of the matter.

I’m very sorry…rocks and hard places equally suck.