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Hello..

I just have some questions regarding the length of the affair that your WH or WW had and how did you handle it for the first few months of Dday?

Is there a difference between a 6 month or less EA & PA than to over a year or so of EA & PA?

WH or WW who had 6 months or less of EA & PA, was it easier to move forward and accept it and R?

Or is it just me that whatever the affair was 6 months or 3 years, the pain is still the same?

Anyone who chose to be "positive" in the first few months and forgive their WH or WW and accept that it had happened already and there is nothing the BS can do? Not rugsweeping or anything.

For example, both couple talked about why it happened, had all the affair details, talked about working the relationship and what needs to be changed, set boundaries, and decided not to bring up the affair anymore as much as possible and try to move forward.

Sorry if this post might be confusing.

Only one 4.5 month A, thankfully, so I can't really compare, but I don't think I could have hurt more than I did, no matter what the length was - longer or shorter. After all, R is much more about the future than the past.

I forgave something on d-day, but I am not sure what. I knew that it would be a trap to fall into thinking about what she did to me, so I forgave her for doing anything to me. I still harbored a desire to see her punished.

For example, both couple talked about why it happened, had all the affair details, talked about working the relationship and what needs to be changed, set boundaries, and decided not to bring up the affair anymore as much as possible and try to move forward.

I - and all BSes - need to work on accepting that being betrayed was part of our history. Figuring out how we'd change the relationship and setting boundaries are jobs for a lifetime - life throws changes at us, and we have to adjust, and there's no time limit on that. There's no time limit on the need to be honest with one's partner. And a critical point in the A occurred 13 years ago last weekend, IIRC. Questions came up last week, and I most certainly asked them, not for the first time.

R is not a pure project, with a start and stop time. R is a process of building a new M that serves you both, and it's accomplished by being in the new M and adjusting as one goes along.

My experience was that it was 'all A, all the time' for 2 years. Then day-to-day issues started replacing A issues. Learning how to solve the A issues helped us solve the d2d ones. Eventually, M became almost totally d2d issues. But the A is part of every couple's story, along with how they met, how they fell in love, and all the other good times, the rough times.

My experience has also been that memories of the A are usually annoyances - just more attack-self messages when my self-esteem is low. The A is part of our story, but our story is much more about being happy that we're together.

*****

ETA: In saying I don't think I'd hurt more (or less) if my W's A had lasted longer (or less long), I don't mean that I think the length of time is irrelevant.

My actual thinking is that each of us has to deal with the A(s) that occurred in our M. Each A has may aspects, and duration is only one of those aspects. Some Ms heal from ONSes; some don't. Some heal from serial cheating; some don't. Duration isonly one of many considerations in the D/R decision.

Consider confession. Confession means something, but the meaning depends on the context. I believe my W confessed as a way to stop lying; her confession aimed also at letting me know what she had done so I could respond knowing the full sitch. Others confess because they believe the aps are going to out them anyway and hope the confession will mitigate the consequences. Some confess to dump their own pain onto their BS (and will continue to do anything to dump their own pain onto others).

So, KGA, I'll turn your Q around: What do you think and feel about the length of your WS's A?

Do you know-accept-comprehend that the length of the A does not have to affect your decision?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:54 PM, Monday, October 9th]

It was one 6 month EA/PA, to my knowledge, for us. Early days….were just pure survival mode for me. I basically told FWH he had to drive the ship of fixing this, if it was to be fixed. I didn’t commit to anything. In fact, I was the one who said….I’m not sure this will work out. He claimed all in early….that it was a big mistake.
What helped me:
First and foremost….that we were BOTH in it whole hog to fix what he had broken. Not that I was in a place to work on the marriage in those early days, or rather probably that first 18 months. But, HE did things he’d never done before.
1. A post nuptial agreement. Funnily, FWH, at the time couldn’t understand why I’d want what is essentially a divorce decree. Took him some time to recognize that level of dumbassery. I didn’t want the idea of finances or the kids to cloud my judgement on who this man had become. I wanted that off the table. I had too much to deal with just recovering from the trauma of it. With that being said, I have PTSD anyway, so this was/is particularly difficult for me.
2. A Metric F-ton of counseling. IC and MC. SO much. So many books….which he wanted to read together. (Again…nothing he’d ever done before)
3. I had no choice to be positive or not. I just had to do me. Take care of yourself like a good friend going through a major trauma. I would be positive until it hit me again.
4. I’m incredibly grateful for the family of friends I have in my life. My BFF….whew….she took care of me when I couldn’t take care of myself.
5. A game plan. FWH and I devised all sorts of plans for what would happen running into OW or OBS - which happens often. What worked for me was him showing physical affection and loyalty and checking in with me. I was in flight or fight mode. He catered to what I needed in those moments.
6. Recognition that whatever we didn’t fix with each other….we’d probably cart that luggage into our next relationships. We were both highly motivated.
7. For me, as the betrayed…..recognizing that I had to fix what he had done to me…for me.

I’m SO sorry you’re here. I’m not sure if I answered your questions. But, no that you’re not alone.

Or is it just me that whatever the affair was 6 months or 3 years, the pain is still the same?

This is difficult to answer, because (unless we were cheated on multiple times--which some posters on this have been), we don't really have a comparison in our experience to know if the pain is worse depending on the length of the affair.

The question I would have is: Is the trust damaged more by a longer affair?

A longer affair shows a longer pattern of intentional deception, and, thus, possibly more ingrained wayward thinking.

Also, a longer affair may make a larger percentage of the committed relationship feel like a "lie."

These elements might impact how a BS feels about reconciliation.

Anyone who chose to be "positive" in the first few months and forgive their WH or WW and accept that it had happened already and there is nothing the BS can do?

I think how people view forgiveness really varies. I tend to view it like you may be implying, which is that forgiveness is about coming to grips with: This happened. It happened. Neither of us can go back in time and change that. So, can I live with that and even consider continuing this relationship? If the answer is Yes or Maybe (with certain conditions and growth met), I see that as forgiveness.

I think forgiveness can even be given by saying "No, I can't continue this relationship. I see you as a flawed (but not irredeemable) human being. I can't be with you anymore, but don't hate you."

I guess I see acceptance as forgiveness.

For example, both couple talked about why it happened, had all the affair details, talked about working the relationship and what needs to be changed, set boundaries, and decided not to bring up the affair anymore as much as possible and try to move forward.

I'm not certain that moving forward requires deciding "not to bring up the affair anymore as much as possible."

I worry that this can easily slide into rug sweeping--even if the couple is trying to avoid rug sweeping.

If this is part of the healing:

[we] talked about working the relationship and what needs to be changed

IMO, there needs to be an ongoing conversation about that work.

Committed couples in solid relationships (even couples who never experience infidelity) need to have state-of-the-relationship check ins and ongoing talks. This need is even greater in the aftermath of betrayal.

Also, healing for a BS is almost never linear (going at an even & upward trajectory). It's often spiraling in nature. A BS may think "I've reached acceptance. I can move forward"...and then the anger comes, or then suspicion takes hold again. Or maybe there is just some concern on the BS's part that the WS is doing work that is really resulting in change that makes them a safe partner.

I would be careful about agreeing to a "let's not talk about this painful part of our history too much anymore" policy.

The affair is now woven into the fabric of your relationship. It's there. It's not going away. This also something that a WS must come to accept.

A healthier approach, IMO, might be to set a goal to be able to discuss the affair with empathy and with clear & calm communication--to even be able to reach a point where the affair can be discussed with some ease.

There is a lot to be learned in the discussion.

[This message edited by BreakingBad at 12:13 AM, Tuesday, October 10th]

working the relationship and what needs to be changed

This sounds like the WS has blamed problems in the relationship for their choice to cheat, and the BS is eager to accept that..because if that's the case, then maybe they can prevent him from cheating again.

Both are wrong. He cheated because something is broken in him. No amount of relationship repair will prevent further infidelity.

For example, both couple talked about why it happened, had all the affair details, talked about working the relationship and what needs to be changed, set boundaries, and decided not to bring up the affair anymore as much as possible and try to move forward.

WH had a 6 months affair (EA/PA).

By definition the whys of an affair take a long time to discover unless you’re referring to very superficial ones. The more the WS digs the more they discover about themselves, I would say it took my WH a good 2-3 years to truly understand why he made the choice to cheat and developing new coping mechanisms. By the time you get into discussing the renewed marriage and rebuilding it from the ashes of the previous one, regaining trust, the BS doing their own work to become safer within themselves, we’re looking at an extensive period of time.

Betrayal is betrayal. A one night stand is still a bad choice that the WS made. Of course, the longer the betrayal, the longer it takes for the BS to process the actual facts but nevertheless, the whys behind it and the marriage rebuild still needs to happen.

Not talking about the affair IS rug-sweeping. How can I tell you that I am rebuilding my house without reference to why I’m rebuilding it and comparing it to the old one?

More so, once the affair happened it is part of your marriage history, it comes up, it should come up the same way as any loss does.

We’re 6 years into reconciliation, the A still appears from time to time, rarely, but it isn’t forbidden subject in our marriage. For example, as recent as last night, after watching a documentary about a couple who experienced infidelity, WH told me again how grateful he was I gave him this chance to prove he is a good man at his core.

Not discussing the affair is conflict avoidance. A common trait I noticed across a lot of WSes is conflict avoidance. Why would you not want that trait addressed?

Oh, Kibo. I really feel your pain in your posts.

My WH had about a 2.5 month affair with a coworker. The first few month or so was just flirting, then they started kissing. They both wanted sex- she wanted a hotel and WH wouldn’t leave work. He was willing to do it in a car but she wasn’t. That’s the only reason it didn’t happen. But you know what? Still the worst pain I’ve ever felt in my life. I cannot speak to anyone else’s pain but I know the length didn’t help my pain. The man who took vows to me went outside our marriage and lied to me daily. It still kills me. Going through this is like going through the stages of grief. What you’re going through now may be denial. "If it only lasted 6 months, it’s not that bad". This is a normal reaction to the trauma you’ve endured. But your pain is your pain, minimizing it won’t help in the long run.

I’m almost 4 months post d-day, not far ahead of you. How did I handle it? Not well. I’ve been anxious, depressed, full of rage, you name it. I started IC about a month in and started practicing daily exercises from Living and Loving after betrayal. I highly recommend the book. I’ve put my self care first. I’m exercising, doing yoga, meditation. I also attend a group therapy session. I will work on the marriage if/when I’m ready, right now it’s about me. I also had a polygraph test right off the bat. I needed to know what I was dealing with and if this was a pattern.

As I said on your other post, not talking about it won’t help. We need to process our trauma, the only way is through the pain. I’ve experienced another traumatic event a few years ago in which a loved one nearly died right before my eyes and even when things were ok again, I still needed to tell my story. I still need to now even though they’re alive and well. I see pictures of people in hospital beds hooked up to a million machines and I get triggered. Please don’t let your WH convince you to stop talking about it or get over it. You need to heal properly. You can’t just choose positivity.

As my FWH cheated on me with many women from the day we met, I can tell you that it's all painful, but when I'm comparing As, some definitely hurt more than others.

Some As I even forget about most of the time or feel nothing toward because they were not as bad as some of the other As.

My FWH's As were all surface level. No "I love yous." No attempts to trash me or talk about getting a divorce or actually talk about me at all.

All of the above may have helped me decide to try R. In fact, I know it did. On DDay, if he had told me he had had strong feelings for the APs at any point, I would have walked. I was already mentally prepared to walk. I would not have been able to "compete" for my cheater--and potentially "lose." It's too humiliating. And I was already barely surviving.

So yes, the duration matters, but also because, in my case, there were so many As that it's hard to focus on all of them. Had it been one A, I would probably be saying duration doesn't matter.

What ultimately mattered to me was the meat of the A--just how meaty was it? And how he reacted after DDay was everything: taking full responsibility, wanting to change, etc. He knew his lifestyle was making him miserable so he confessed. But I use that term lightly, because he only told me about 1% of the infidelity thinking that if I didn't trust him a little bit, then I'd stop him from cheating without having it blow up our entire M. That obviously didn't work.

[This message edited by Revenger at 7:57 PM, Thursday, May 23rd]

My H’s first EA was 4 years. He denied it.

His second affair was about a year from the date they met to when it ended. During that affair he planned to D me.

The length of the affair is not always important — but the intensity of the cheater’s feeling are more important IMO.

For me it wasn't so much about the duration of the affair, but more about the intensity of the affair. All said and done. The whole thing lasted about 9 months, but the first 8 months of it was an occasional naked picture she would send to him and he sent a total of two to her. I was able to read their messages between them and he told her multiple times that he didn't want anything to do with her. Unfortunately, he did not stick by his words and it ended up being physical or rather an attempt at physical. He ended it right then and there but I didn't find out until a year later.

Had he Been in love with her and it had been more emotionally and physically charged I don't think I would still be with him now two years later

Had he Been in love with her and it had been more emotionally and physically charged I don't think I would still be with him now two years later

From the other side of the barricade (EA/PA) I can tell you that I felt… relieved is not a perfect word to describe it, but I’ll use it… relieved that WH had feelings (or he thought he did, I won’t get into the vast subject of affair love on this thread) for his AP. It meant (to me) that he wasn’t the type of man who would just sleep with anyone available, it meant that it was unlikely for him to be a serial cheater who seizes any opportunity to have occasional sex outside our marriage. To my knowledge and after digging into every source of information I could find throughout all our marriage (social media data, bank accounts, emails) it doesn’t appear he ever cheated before.

It also meant that he didn’t turn into "that kind of man", the one that who would disparage AP and shift all the blame onto her, I’m not sure I could have remained married to a man who would have acted that way, no matter how great would have felt to hear it meant nothing.

I’m not saying this to contradict any other perspective, I’m just saying that we are all different and we have different expectations from what recovery looks like and what our line in the sand is.

The pain through the process is huge no doubt.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 2:31 PM, Wednesday, October 11th]

Kibo - About 4 months out from DDay #3, our MC sessions resume tomorrow after a few weeks off for travel. That always has me taking stock of how I think we're progressing - and your question really got me thinking.

Not only about how long it might take to accept and move on - but also WHAT each of us are actually accepting and moving on FROM..

How long? I don't think the length or type of affair makes a difference. We had a D-Day related to a 6 month long EA, then two more D-Days related to short physical affairs and various sexually charged 'friendships'. Scattered over 6 years, there were also multiple setbacks and resets due to trickle truth. Each additional DDay was less shocking - but somehow harder to begin processing and much longer to get to a safe feeling.

What is it that's harder to move on from? It's gotta be the lies. Sex is easy to put aside. It is an element of intimacy, sure, but one day, stuff just stops working and interest wanes - but the marriage will still need a foundation of loyalty, even more-so then. Affair sex is also a physical thing that can stop and start - and be verified to not be happening. No strange genitals near your WS today? They're not having sex.. today.

So, at east for me, it's the lack of integrity and the damage to my ability to feel like my loyalty is reciprocated.

Deception, lies, manipulation. Couple that with the fact that only THEY have all the information. You can dig all you want, you'll never find everything... and when you stop finding stuff, you're left to wonder if there is nothing left to find... or if they are just hiding it well.

It sucks. Us BS’s have to hunt lies like cockroaches in our kitchen and squash every one we find, knowing the whole time there might be more. Then we stand there exhausted and look at the squash-stains as hard-earned truths and - as fucked as it sounds - we VALUE them. We base our futures on them - even knowing it's a lost cause if our WSs aren't willing and able to root out and squash the ones WE didn't find. The shitty WSs know exactly where they are but protect them like little pets, thinking they can keep em' under the fridge until they just die and dry up. The really shitty WSs give them comfy little boxes to live in, feed them and bring them more little friends for company. The terrible WSs just keep lying. Some are really good at it.

I gotta give the remorseful WSs credit for hanging in there - because they probably look MORE like liars a lot of the time, despite really trying to get it right. They might, with the best of intentions, try to protect you from information they think might just hurt you more. They can honestly answer every question but even a reconciliation-dedicated and introspective WS will tell their story a little differently over time, because they grow and evaluate past behavior differently over time. My WS has been each of these types of WS at times - and it all looks and feels the same to a BS who decides to stay.

You don't know what you don't know but if you think you know enough, you accept that. If you think your WS has what it takes to do the right thing, you buckle up and give it a go on faith.. Sometimes you do it more than once. That's as pure an act of love that any person can show another. I wonder if more than a handful of WS's ever realize that.

[This message edited by suddenlyisee at 6:32 PM, Sunday, October 22nd]

suddenlyisee:

I'm crying! Literally!
I feel you. I am feeling exactly the same. I can relate so much!

Sorry, I was just so emotional today.
Had so many TT as well and DDays for the span of 4 months since I found out.

H doesn't realized how damaging it was for me and for my family.

I want to keep digging for more, however, I don't know if it will help me to move forward since I do not trust him at all. Negative. Nada!

He lied numerous times and told me some of the details differently so it wont look that bad.

Last time, we spoke, I know he was telling me the truth but it was difficult to believe him.

I keep telling him that it is not about the affair details anymore but the constant lying he is doing and it seems that he cannot understand that fact.

Anyway, thank you. I really hope it will work out for the both of us.

@sSuddenlyisee,

Your post resonated big time. I think I have a truly remoselful spouse but I am too scared. We are two months out with a month of TT (I think). I've always been an overly trusting person, now I feel so frightened to even give him an ounce of grace even if I think he is telling me the truth.
I also don't get how you don't develop feelings for someone you have been physical with for 6 months. I don't get that at all, because for me sex isn't just sex, but what do I know?
This s*** really sucks.

SinCity -

I think I have a truly remorseful spouse but I am too scared. We are two months out with a month of TT (I think). I've always been an overly trusting person, now I feel so frightened to even give him an ounce of grace even if I think he is telling me the truth.

Listen to this feeling, and speak it as your truth. He should know when you're holding back and why grace is going to take time. Don't be afraid to express your feelings, even as they change. How you feel TODAY is not a promise to your WS of how you're going to feel tomorrow. Feeling allowed to feel is a hard skill to develop when all you are is scared, but it's probably more important than ANYTHING that you do your best right up front to simply be heard and acknowledged, no matter what. Affairs are about one partner making it all about them, and turning off empathy for their BS.. but recovery has to be about BOTH of you cooperating and being willing to understand each other. Sometimes you have to FORCE their empathy switch back 'on'.

I was my own worst enemy last time around and couldn't bring myself to take a step backward to move foreword. Our previous R really FELT successful because we were both trying to get back to 'feeling good' and we made progress - but we were doing it INDIVIDUALLY as opposed to together, and progress was about feeling better, not getting better. She was sure she'd never cheat again but trickle-truthed because it felt good for her to get some of it off her chest, and she felt it made me feel good because she was sparing me from the messy details. She never got to the WHY of the cheating. I ate most of my feelings because I wanted to make her feel good so she would feel motivated to R, and that made ME feel good because I was winning back my love. I never got to the WHY of being a door-mat. It worked perfectly. We really both felt GREAT which got us right back to the way we were before DDay in no time at all. Problem is that before DDay, she was having As and I was happily oblivious. Nothing changed, and here we are again. This time, mutual empathy is a non-negotiable - it has to come first, or nothing else is going to hold up..

I also don't get how you don't develop feelings for someone you have been physical with for 6 months. I don't get that at all, because for me sex isn't just sex, but what do I know? This s*** really sucks.

Totally get this... I couldn't understand it either, because I wasn't in the situation. My WS couldn't understand it because she WAS in the situation. She was deeply in love with her EA, and it was horrible to have to watch her grieve that relationship for months and months. Today, years later? No way. She KNOWS he's a douchebag. Same situation but her opinion is on sliding scale based on time and self-awareness. She also thought of short term PAs as friends - and sees them now as the turds they really are.

I think many totally DO develop feelings.. friendship, love, soulmates, schmoopies. They can want this person more than you, then reimagine their feelings for YOU and really, truly convince themselves that SHE was real, YOU were not or, what the hell, I love them both. Then, they wake up and realize it was all bullshit. It's tough, but at the end of the day, how they FELT about their AP then is much less important than how they FEEL about them now.

[This message edited by suddenlyisee at 8:49 PM, Thursday, October 19th]

Hi Kibo,

I feel you here. I had a false R from March 2009 to just this past July 2023. D Day was absolute hell and to this day I do not know how I got through the first few months. I do not know how I was able to sleep and then get out of the bed and go to work everyday. But somehow I did it. I just found out this past July about an EA and possible ONS (or maybe even a full PA?) that took place just before we were married, but we were living together and engaged to be married. D Day 2 was more crippling than D Day 1 even though the events took place 22 years earlier.

suddenlyisee,

It sucks. Us WSs [... think you may have meant BSs here?...] have to hunt lies like cockroaches in our kitchen and squash every one we find, knowing the whole time there might be more. Then we stand there exhausted and look at the squash-stains as hard-earned truths and - as fucked as it sounds - we VALUE them. We base our futures on them - even knowing it's a lost cause if our WSs aren't willing and able to root out and squash the ones WE didn't find. The shitty WSs know exactly where they are but protect them like little pets, thinking they can keep em' under the fridge until they just die and dry up. The really shitty WSs give them comfy little boxes to live in, feed them and bring them more little friends for company. The terrible WSs just keep lying. Some are really good at it.

Having lived in apartment where the building had been infested with cockroaches for generations makes your example above more visual and impactful for me. I myself am in the process of learning whether I have a shitty WS, a really shitty WS, or a terrible WS. Great stuff in your post that resonates with me a lot.

Wondqy - thanks for catching my typo.. fixed.