SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Basically,

Everything is good. We just had a super crappy week.

She wants her family to think her marriage (or at least she) is perfect. And they know it’s not, but she does not accept they know it. They put the fun in disfuntional.

I am in IC. He also does MC, but I am not ready for that yet. I buried so much for so long, I am working on me. I am being selfish on fixing me first.

We are talking, even about the A, which we never did. Some of it is painful. But burying did not work, so maybe sunshine on old issues must be the answer I am having to figure out what parts of her I love, what parts I am willing to live with (like dishwasher loading),and what parts are deal breakers that I want changed(like being assumed I am completely wrong on an issue, when I am partially or completely right).

I think because I skipped R 23 years ago, the stuff we should have dealt with -conflict resolution- just hung around and I have to deal with it now.

EMDR is also helping. It helps with old hurts I am carrying around. Some not even related to A.

I was just really pissed when I wrote the above. A week with her family is just too long. We only spend 4 days a year with mine, and that is perfect.

Thanks guys

[This message edited by goingtomakeit at 3:08 PM, Monday, August 7th]

EMDR is also helping. It helps with old hurts I am carrying around. Some not even related to A.

Good to hear. After a few months of trying to find an EMDR therapist, I finally managed to get an appointment with one a week from Wednesday. It's over an hour away but no complaints about that.

Thank you, Sisoon!

Here is something else that kinda' hits home:

"Can we talk about the man who has been cheated on and has been embarrassed, because that man doesn’t even feel like he can talk about it? And when he does, he gets told she cheated on him because he wasn’t emotionally available to her, he wasn’t being a man, wasn’t being the provider. It was because of his lack of emotional intimacy that she went off and sought from somebody else which then became physical.

"But, yet, guys, we don’t tell that to women. We don’t place blame on women that get cheated on because she wasn’t physically intimate with him. No, we do quite the opposite.

"We put the scarlet letter on the man for doing the cheating, while she is getting support. -- Which is, by the way, what I think should happen, because cheating in no way should be the path, no matter the circumstance.

"But why can’t we recognize this double standard and change it, to know that women also cheat, that there is no excuse for that behavior, and that men can be unfairly hurt by it?"

Can I get an "amen"? Any men feel this type of response in their situation?

Beachwalker-Amen brother.

I wanted to update. Things are going great. Sex is frequent, 3-4 times a week. But it is more than just the sex. I think she really loves me. I feel like I am loved by her. And I have fallen back in love with her. That is making the sex hotter, more passionate, etc. I take viagra, and with me feeling safe, there are no failures! have not had a failure in months.

I am so happy, and scared sometimes.

We are doing things together. Travel, hiking, etc. we can really fight sometimes, like I detailed above. That is times I don’t feel safe.

I am giving (really have given) myself to her. She is capable of really hurting me bad at this point. I think that is why the fight stung so bad. All the cruelty I know she is capable of came rushing back to me. I know I can be a big jerk at times, and I kept escalating instead of keeping my cool. We have apologized. I think I will tell her sorry again, and explain why this hit me so bad.

Most of the time, I feel safe. I feel warm and safe inside with her. Ironically, this brings back memories of DDay and the immediate aftermath. I guess a compare/contrast in my mind. I am going to IC, and he is doing EMDR, so I guess it’s time to go back and get DDAY me, and free him (and todays me).

I think the love she is showing is real. I know the love I am giving back is real. I am in a real good place right now.

1) To heal and to R, we have to put the voices we hear inside our heads aside. Instead, IMO, we have t create internal messaging that supports ourselves. Sure, I think we all hear attacks on our manhood, but the only ones that count are the attacks we launch ourselves. Stop those, and what other people think makes no difference.

I always thought men whose partners cheat were weak somehow. Then a friend told me he was divorcing because his W wanted a D and a contractor. My friend was not weak. He was a good guy. He told me something about his M, and I could see that his W just made a bad choice. Her A did not diminish my friend in any way, in my mind. Yes, he's just one data point, but I think it's pretty common.

Who besides me was afraid to post here because he feared ridicule? Sure, there are people, especially on JFO, who talk about manning up, but they're in a minority.

So a lot of our fears about what other men would think about us are unfounded, IMO.

2) goingtomakeit - I think that sometimes we can't get to the light until we go through deep, deep darkness. That's a very encouraging update. It wasn't luck; it was the result of work that you and your W have done, and it's the result of enough courage to take the risk. Your W cheated. You stepped up for yourself and her and your M. Congratulations!

goingtomakeit: That's a lot of good news! I understand how you feel about feeling scared and good at the same time.

I am hoping for you things are genuine and real.

Hang in there and enjoy the good times. Hopefully, there will be lots more coming!!

I wanted to comment on the BH, and what other guys think.

I was 34 when I found out about A. I was so ashamed. I felt like guys would think I had a small dick, or was lousy in bed. There were some of my friends who talked about other guys who D because of a WW, and acted like it was the guys fault.

BUT-the important men in my life were not like that. The guys who loved and supported me-the greatest guys in the world, whom I can never repay, don’t feel that way. I have had a friend/attorney for ten years. We recently talked about moving assets into wife’s name. I said there was a problem-and told him about A. First time I talked about it in years to anyone. I was not in IC and trying R by myself and not working out that well for me-both situations are so much better today. Anyway, after I cried and spilled everything out, he quietly said "I wish you had told me sooner." He told me I was his Bro, and Bros looked out for each other-and we email and get together for lunch regularly.

Some guys are immature, and I think they laugh to cover up their fear it could happen to them. But other guys-my BIL, my college roommate, my lawyer friend, my brother-these kind of men support me, love me, and I am lucky they are part of my life.

And also, the A is not my shame-it is hers. I just recently came to that conclusion, and it is freeing my soul

[This message edited by goingtomakeit at 12:42 PM, Monday, August 21st]

Imagine hurting a man when God sent him to you, to heal you, to take care of you, to see you happy and to love you. And the only thing he asked of you in return was loyalty & respect to value him.

Youngest is 18 wednesday, been waiting 16 yrs for this, not sure i can split though. She is senior, merit scholar, gov school alum, honor soc, girl scout, church voluteer, band, quiz bowl, gpa 4+ AP classes etc. On?y reason i stayed....shit..spouse OD ed on cactus juice month ago, ended up in ER, sober since, seen it before...made 6 mos yrs ago.
Young guys, no kids- !eave get out start over-shit clouds all..forever...

It has been a long time since I last saw you here 64fleet. And it has been that long since you have been counting the days until your last one was out of the home and away from your WW. From what you have written your last kid seems to be thriving in every sense of the word. Congratulations on this.
But haven't you sacrificed enough of your life? Don't you think it is time you look after yourself and enjoy the time you have left?

I am qt a crossroads in my life, not sure where to turn. I love my kids, love seeing them everyday.
Somehow the love for for thier mother has disappeared. Mid 50s hate to start all over, she says will take court order to leave, wish i had vids of her coming home drunk w\kids in tne car etc.
Model spouse now, how long???
Been.fooled before

Not sure I have any sage advice. It's easy on the other side of the internet to say "YOLO" and shit. I know I did an analysis for the stay/go decision and kids were the decider in the "stay for now" decision for me. Could not imagine not seeing them every day, but worse than that was the thought of how much lost influence i would have, and how much more she would have. That was it for me.

Now that the kids are older and every day was not on the table anyway, the analysis swayed on am I happier with or without and realize I can never know, so now as long as I find the good outweighs the bad, I'm here. That romantic love has not come back, and I see that is the case in many marriages, including some that people are happy in. I am a caring person, and I think I care more about her than I do other people in my life, but we have some work to do. My wife is willing to work on it. Admitted her issues, worked through them as much as she was capable, and is willing to work on us so I'll give it a shot.

If she had not had some realizations and was willing to work on her then us, I would probably be here in the same place I am now, but figuring out if the change in things like holiday and family celebrations is worth being with someone not willing to work on it.

Probably useless but just wanted to try and help. I used to be on here a lot and now not really and wanted to raise my hand for anyone who remembers and say Hi. Life is crazy in good ways for me so I will most likely not be back for awhile again.

Thanks fol. I also found out later about a couple guys along the way-knew about one the other two were a surprise-one was the best man at the wedding, yrs later though but still some one i had been friends with since about 5 yrs old. She had left her AA stuff in the dimig room once she went back to drinking-this was 3-4 yrs ago. In it was a worksheet where she admitted wronging folks. Good/bad news i was top o the list.
Lately she has been a good roommate who does some washing for me. The love died a while back. Still dont regret being here for the kids.
No way i would have her moving in some guy she met from the bar with my teen daughter living there. Id go to the graybar for my daughter or son.
I feel WW is trying to to work on her issues, just too late for me.

64fleet-

Been in your shoes. Don’t have the alcoholic W, but done the endurance test. And I agree 100% on the advice to young guys with no kids-get the hell out now.

My two kids are everything to me. My sons are my best friends.

We were in a happier time when the youngest left for college-2013. It was manageable-we had still rugswept, so the elephant was still in the room.

It got bad again-no A, just love died. Around 2018. I was living a half life-safe from being hurt, but not really alive. I think if no COVID I would have left in 2020, but kids came home for COVID-so my best friends were back-why leave? Also, no place to go in COVID.

In Dec of 2022, she made the first move back to me. I’m glad she did. Sex is great, and intimacy is alive. I am fully alive, and it feels great. I have gone back to IC, working on me. Even if we breakup at some point, I still have to have me-and I have to be healthy.

Sometimes I am scared, but that is less and less. Not really afraid of another A (she is almost 60-who would really want her?), but what if she is running a scam-wants 60%, not 50%? What if this is just temporary, and not real?

So, it can come back from the "dead". 10 months ago, I did not think it was possible, yet here I am.

Also, this year, I got bad news on my heart. Life expectancy shortened. So, calculus changes. I have about 12 years. I can’t outlive my money, or even 1/2 of it. I am not afraid to leave, as I have nothing of value left to lose (except me). The heart thing really put my life in perspective.

I am in my M because I want to be here. I have the power to leave. I am no longer trapped by the kids. I am no longer trapped by my image to the world. If I only have 12 years left, I think being with W is how I will be happiest. If that changes in 2 years (or 4 years, or 6 years), I can leave-I have that power.

So, if you knew you had only 12 years left-how would you spend it? And with whom? (There are no wrong answers)

BH only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:10 PM, Thursday, September 28th]

** Posting as an old guy, not as staff **

...she is almost 60-who would really want her?

Well, you do for one.

I guess some almost-60 men are with hot young women, but what sort of connection do they have? IDK ... when I see a young woman dating or marrying an old guy, I tend to think about quid pro quo ... sex for security. I know that sounds a lot like prostitution - just be aware that my mind goes there first, and then I remind myself that I don't know what the relationship is and that the relationship could be ideal. I may start judgmental, but I don't stay there.

This is a thread for menz, but I like sex with women (well, it would be 'women' if I weren't married), so I hate to offend them.

Some women experience a decline in interest in sex post-menopause, but many do not. Sex with post-menopausal women can be sublime. That is, if the men can keep up.

(signed) sisoon, b. 1944, whose W cheated at 65, IIRC

I’m into sixty-year-old women. Well… at least I’m into my wife who is not only the only woman I desire but the only woman I plan to have sex with.

I think nature thought things through… Our eyesight gets worse in line with our partners bodies losing the stereotypical "hot-bod" look. Fortunately my wife’s Presbyopia (age-related farsightedness) is worse than mine.

Young guys, no kids- !eave get out start over-shit clouds all..forever.

I am qt a crossroads in my life, not sure where to turn. I love my kids, love seeing them everyday.

Yup! Had a 2-year old at home during the first A. He was 3 at D-Day1. No way I was gonna leave him with her and a long line of potential boyfriends who would have intruded into his life.

Not really afraid of another A (she is almost 60-who would really want her?

)

WW is 70 and still looks good, at least to me. Some men will go after any woman no matter the age.

Also, this year, I got bad news on my heart. Life expectancy shortened. So, calculus changes. I have about 12 years.

Sorry to hear that. Started having atrial fib problems at the age of 18. Was on Inderal and Lanoxin for over 20 years until the meds caused my heart to slow down to a crawl. Been living on faith ever since. At age 27 I was told I had 6 months to live due to a liver that had been decimated by years of hard liquor. I'm 72 now. Go figure. Just saying.

Some women experience a decline in interest in sex post-menopause, but many do not. Sex with post-menopausal women can be sublime. That is, if the men can keep up.

Cialis has helped me a bit.

Been in limbo for 29 years. DS is 32, lives in another state and has his own family, so that's no longer an excuse. Financial situation is fine. The thing is that I love my wife. We've been together over 40 years. That's a lot of history and memories.

Every once in a while one or both of us threatens divorce. Then the next day we're back to "normal" whatever that is. A couple of months ago she screamed at me "Get out, get out, get out." A couple of weeks after that I brought her phone to her and made the mistake of mentioning that her laptop goes everywhere with her. She yelled "F you" at me and tossed her laptop in my direction. On Sunday she got pissed off and said "I want a divorce!" I said "Good!" Then we talked it out and here we are.

Co-dependency? Low self-esteem? PTSD? You bet! She's been seeing a therapist and goes to Al-Anon meetings twice a week. I have an appointment in October for EMDR therapy. So we just keep plugging along. So yeah, if you're young and have no children, take WW's advice and "Get out!" before your soul shrivels up.

Driving home tonight I heard a song by Blue Oyster Cult, "Shooting Shark" with lyrics by Patti Smith. It pretty much sums it up for me.

"He laid a spread of Jacks and Queens
And he begged me take my pick
But every face it had your face
I cried out, I am sick

Sick of hauling your love around
Want to run my train alone
But the engine tracks straight through your heart
And weighs me like a stone

Oh it's a hard love to love you it takes up all my time
Having you so familiar like past lives and nursery rhymes"

Good Lord! 60??, that is not old! My wife and I live in a retirement community and have a very varied and satisfying social life. My wife is 78 and has maintained a very healthy and inviting shapely body and still has a sharp mind thanks in no small part to a continued interest in eating a sensible diet coupled with a regimen of frequent aerobic exercise and weights in which I have joined her, just to.keep up with her. I see the attention she generates and the looks that follow her in the supermarket or on the dance floor, which afford me a certain sense of pride and gratitude, but which no longer give me cause for concern or fear. Yes, she has been hit on maybe twice in the past year, but the boundaries are strong and vigorously enforced. The sad fact is that people will cheat regardless of age, and somewhere I read, recently, that the 60 to 70 female cohort is the most likely age for women to cheat. I have no idea if that is true, but it would not surprise me if it is.
As for sex, it's not as frequent or intense as when we were in our twenties, but is a source of deep intimate connection as we create a new marital relationship multiple decades after my wife's affairs.

So... a compare and contrast of grief.

I'd like to say I put a lot of thought into this, but... that would imply I think about stuff and I don't wanna think about that. There is alot I could say, but I'll try and keep it relevant.

For those bh who don't know my story, I'm a bh who went through the reconciliation process and then later lost my wife to breast cancer. Meaning I'll be talking about how the two sources of grief impact me.

How the pain compares: it doesn't really. Like apples to oranges, where the apples are poison knives and oranges are grenades of void. Er, emotionally anyways.

I can say for me, being betrayed hurt more than losing her did. Not that both weren't devastating. Looking back, I see that when I was betrayed it broke something fundamental inside me, I think. The pain of her cheating struck at the person I saw myself as. Trying to reconcile was an added layer of constant reminders on top of it. Something that kept the pain fresher than if we had separated. The metaphor of poison knives or needles filling your insides is how I'd describe the sensation. I had an almost desperate need to escape the pain.

Comparatively, the pain from her loss feels more like... absence. A silent empty absence where something should be. The pain isn't sharp and in waves, but dull and constant. It didn’t strike at who I thought I was and it doesn't leave me feeling a desperate need for an outlet. Instead it feels like an inescapable doom and a feeling of... surrendering to oblivion.

Now, I can see how if she hadn't cheated, then I might have felt that same damage to my identity on top of the pain from her loss, and I can't claim that it wouldn't be worse.

I built myself, my identity, back up with a wall around me after the cheated just in case she cheated again. One that I figured would be chipped away during reconciliation... and it was. But that emotional wall I created is a source of deep, deep regret now. If I had been willing to take it down faster, then we could have had more happier moments before she left.

Which is worse? I'd say the cheating hurt worse BUT that, though, is just considering the impact it had on *me*.

Her loss also had and still has deep impact on my kiddos. I'm dealing with acting out at school, at home on top of my own stuff. It isn't easy. I think that if I tried to add together the pain of her loss as it was spread across all of us who feel it and combkne it somehow to just one person, then it would be way, way worse.

For my numbers-oriented fellas, that's a guesstimated 50-75% of the pain of infidelity spread to everyone that loved her (+/- denial and escapism).

For my 'need a real-world scenerio' fellas, that's having a dream that you walk in on her cheating again and instead of anger and pain its sadness and waking up think 'I wish I could see ya again'.

For my shit sandwich fellas, it's a normal shit sandwich for you, or most of a shit sandwich and everyone at the table gets one too.

So, td;rl:

The emotional pain of infidelity hurt worse than the emotional pain of her death did to me, BUT the emotional pain of her death also hurt everyone she knew.

Also, uh.... where's the clocks?

[This message edited by Notthevictem at 12:31 PM, Thursday, November 9th]