SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Has anyone managed to successfully R, in a situation whereby the WS actually left at one point or another, for the AP?

This is very much where I feel so stuck.

My WH met the AP, and within 6 weeks (yep, 6 whole weeks) decided to leave our family and 13 year marriage for her because he had "never felt this way before". Of course he was too cowardly at the time to tell me this was the reason he was leaving. He simply said something inside him had snapped, he no longer loved me and, to quote "Maybe I've never loved you". He hurt my heart so much I thought I was going to die. Now it just feels like there's an empty void there. Anyway, I digress...

Within a week of leaving our family and playing house with her, he says reality of what he'd done kicked in and the sheen of the AP wore off. He realised this "love" he felt for her was a lie and he just loved the way she made him feel. Their conversations even became flat (as did his erections, I'm told 🤭).

I naturally welcomed him back with open arms, and concluded that he was going through a personal crisis. I was sending him links about depression and trying my best to look after him, walking on egg shells. I was such a fool 😭

He continued to see the AP, although true to his cowardly nature and conflict avoidy personality, decided to try and "phase" her out by being cold and disinterested in the hopes she would end things, so he wouldn't have to. However, the more he pulled away, the nuttier she became; demanding his Google location, photos of where he was, screen shots of his call history. If he didn't oblige, she would threaten to "get her answers elsewhere". He was starting to see a really insideous side of her and he became terrified she would go to his work and make false allegations (which wouldn't just result in a job loss - but he could have ended up in the media, our children would find out and potentially have their lives made a nightmare...just a whole world of f*ckery could unfold). Anyway, a couple of weeks later, I found out...

His IC is of the opinion that he had some kind of psychotic break. She feels that decided to leave a 13 year marriage, and a good one at that, for someone you've known for 6 weeks, is extremely unstable behaviour. I'm not sure I buy this. Either way, it kills me that he could be so fickle as to throw away what we had for someone he barely knew. And there was a time where He. Chose. Her.

I don't know how to even process that fact.

My fWW left me, took our kids and went back to her parents home. The AP was supposed to leave his BS and 3 1/2 children, she was pregnant, and move to be with her. At least that's what she thought. Seems he never had any intention of being with her. It took her three months to figure that out and decide to come home.
Of course I'd have done and did anything to keep my children away from my MIL.
As for real reconciliation, it was more of anything to keep my family together. Big mistake as you can see from my name.

And there was a time where He. Chose. Her.

I don't know how to even process that fact.

This has been the hardest thing for me to deal with. My H confessed with these words: "I'm in love with someone else." After the f-bombs stopped flying, I really chewed on it and thought that maybe R was possible now that the truth was out there. I offered to attempt it if he would agree to ditch the OW, and he said no. So I asked him to move out. He went to his mother's, three blocks away.

During that time apart, he got a good taste of the life changes that he initiated and he didn't like it. He also asked me and the OW to leave him alone so that he could think without being influenced by either of us. I (mostly) respected his boundary, but she didn't. She blew up his phone and wanted him to come be with her. Thankfully, she lives 50 miles away and he wasn't willing to miss seeing his kids every day so that he could stay with her. Also, I was workin' the 180 hardcore most of the time, and then having bursts of HB, then back to 180. I was taking what I wanted, but also taking no shit. I think that was the time in my life that I felt the most powerful, even though it was terribly, horribly stressful.

A month after DDay, we were sitting on the porch in the middle of the night talking about child support and other D related topics, and I asked him if D is what he really wanted. To my surprise, he said no. We went for a walk, talked about feelings and plans, and I set some boundaries. He sent the NC email the next day and has never looked back.

His IC is of the opinion that he had some kind of psychotic break.

Google says: "In terms of what it means, a "psychotic break with reality" means losing contact with reality, such as hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, or feeling something that has no external correlate (i.e., hallucinations) or believing something to be true that is false, fixed, and fantastic (i.e., a delusion) or being unable to sequence one’s thoughts or control a flight of ideas that becomes increasingly tangential (i.e., thought disordered), or emotions wildly inconsistent with external reality (such as catatonia, the wild flights of someone in a manic episode, or a complete absence of affect)."

I'm not so sure that I disagree with his IC. That pretty much describes "the fog" to a T. Leaving one's family for someone you've known for six weeks is pretty delusional. In our case, leaving one's family for someone you've already stopped having sex with is pretty delusional. My H could have said, "I had affairs and I need to be by myself for a while to sort things out." But no, he said "I'm in love with someone else."

You know what? This thread is helping me to remember that none of this shit was about her - it was all about him. I feel such fierce competition with this bitch that continues in my head to this day. And I've said 1000x that she could have been anyone who paid him attention and stroked his ego. Intellectually I know that's true, but I still want to "beat" her. I'm mad and hurt that he chose her over me, like you said, even if only for a short while. Hmm. This is good stuff. Good thread. Thank you, Whiskey.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:57 PM, Thursday, June 8th]

R is after the A. It's about the future. Sometimes the WS changes for the better; sometimes not. Often it's the WS's behavior after d-day, not the A itself, that makes D the best option.

We have friends who separated for a year+ because the H was with someone else. That had to have been 20 years ago; now they look like 2 people committed to each other. I should mention that I've never discussed their separation with them.

I think one of the changes that are absolutely required for R to succeed is that each partner needs to take responsibility for themself, and that means both partners need to address issues. That means both partners need to approach conflict, not avoid it. You seem ready to do that, but you describe a partner who won't even tell his ap that he's done with the A.

I think 'fog' is better shorthand for what enabled your H to leave than 'psychotic break', but I do think WSes enable their As by intentionally giving up contact with reality, and both terms convey that meaning. I'm not sure I cared much about my W's motivations and process, though - I cared about what she did to change from betrayer to good partner.

From what you write about your H, he's not taking responsibility for himself. Unless and until he does, he's not a good candidate for R, IMO. My reco is to communicate with and observe your H until you gather enough data to make a D/R decision. Another reco is to give yourself permission to accept him back - and to dump him. Make the D/R decision based on what you want, and if you want R, on how likely it is that your WS will change.

You did nothing to deserve getting an A dumped on you. Your H brought ow into your M because he decided to do so. I know it's immensely painful.

I also know it's possible to survive and thrive after d-day. Have some faith in yourself.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:24 PM, Thursday, June 8th]

Sisoon- I'm so sorry, but the last bit of my post I don't think I explained very well, my apologies. I tend to go off on tangents 😬 After I found out about the A, my WH did end things with her and has been completely NC since. He told her it was all based on lies, that it was the worst mistake of his life and that they are both horrible people. The entire A lasted 3 months in total- 6 weeks of thinking he was love with her, and then another 6 weeks trying to escape from the nightmare he'd created!

We are a year out now, and whilst he has made some major mistakes including TT, he really is trying. I know he feels heart sick with what he's done, and he feels repulsed by the thought of her now (mainly because he realised what a vile human being she is - this isn't the first marriage she has destroyed!!).

It just feels like no matter what he does now, he can't take away the fact that there was a moment in time that he chose her over me. My IC has laboured the point to me that he chooses me now and chooses to stay and work on our marriage every day.

But it just feels like nothing can soothe this feeling that I wasn't always his first choice 😕

SsS - you're absolutely spot on, leaving ones family for someone you've just met is incredibly delusional! Thank you for saying this! How far out are you from DDay? I can completely relate to the feeling of fierce competition with the AP. I feel consumed with hatred towards her, as I mentioned to sisoon, this was not the first marriage she destroyed.

She is a vapid moron who is the complete opposite of anyone he would normally be attracted to. They are polar opposites. I am desperate for karma to pay her a visit one day. Although she is such a dysfunctional human being, she is 30 and has never managed to maintain a long term relationship. So I can't see that happening.

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 8:49 PM, Thursday, June 8th]

I'd ask my husband to schedule a joint visit with his IC. I'd want to verify that she said he had a psychotic break.

What is he doing to reassure you that you aren't Plan B? It sounds as if things with OW wasn't as rosy as he thought, so he left her for his safe place.

Hellfire - I'm confident no counsellor in the UK would be willing to share the content of an individuals therapy session with any outside party, even with their agreement. I wouldn't feel overly comfortable with this either. Plus, assuming my WH is being honest about his IC thoughts, it's just her opinion. Which I'm not sure I really agree with anyway... The odd thing is that I mentioned this to my own IC and she agreed that it seemed he'd suffered some kind of psychotic break of sorts, although she didn't phrase it like that of course. More that she believes he wasn't behaving in any rational way.

I have asked him and myself, time and time again, was I Plan B? He very passionately refutes this though. He says he knew it was a mistake right after he left. He describes a sort of anti-climax feeling. The A was brought into the cold light of day, and it was ugly. He says that all of the things he used to justify the A, he realised they were all b*llshit. He says he yearned for the emotional closeness and connection we had, and that this person he threw away everything for was just an empty shell of compliments and ego boosting. I think had she been the one to end things with him, or had he left for a good few months to try on this new relationship and came back with his tail between his legs, I'd be more inclined to believe I was Plan B.

How far out are you from DDay?

19 years. I hope that doesn't freak you out. It took me a hot minute to realize that I have some unresolved infidelity trauma. We only did MC - no IC - and now I'm understanding why IC before MC is the standard advice around here. This thread reminded me that I hadn't heard back from the office where I'd submitted a request for a consultation, so thank you. I just called them and now have an appointment for next week.

My H still works at the same company as the OW and I got all spun up again when I knew I'd probably see her at the company party a couple of months ago. My obsession with creeping on her had finally faded until a few years ago when a friend of mine was going through A aftermath with her H. The OW in her case was on Pinterest, which sparked curiosity to see if "my" OW was on Pinterest. Sure enough, she was, and she had an entire board - 950+ pins - about unrequited love. They could be about someone else, but I don't think so. She got married five years after the A and is still married. I think she's either unaware that Pinterest is public, or she pinned all that crap in hopes that my H would eventually see it and feel flattered enough to call her. Or that I would see it and get upset. Who knows. Also, I think she's got a competition mindset with me, too. She actually got married on our anniversary. And it was a weekday, so it's not like it was the only Saturday that the wedding venue had open. Who does that? I now refer to her as a "low key bunny boiler." lol

Like I said, intellectually, I know that she's a nonentity and I don't have anything to worry about, but I think because my H "chose" her over me all those years ago, my lizard brain perceives her as an adversary. I suspect she feels the same way about me because he then chose me, but who cares what she thinks, right? I'm hoping for EMDR or something to zap her out of my head. I'm tired. I don't want to think about her anymore.

I'm confident no counsellor in the UK would be willing to share the content of an individuals therapy session with any outside party, even with their agreement.

I’m in the UK, at my husband’s request, my husband’s psychologist invited me to his last session and gave me an overview of what they worked on, the whys they discovered (they actually had charts with drawings of what led to what, CBT style) and answered any questions I had.

As long as your husband gives them permission and is there, they CAN disclose everything. They may not want to, but there is no law preventing them to do so.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 10:23 PM, Thursday, June 8th]

Hi Whiskey,

I really encourage you not to personalise this in the way you are doing. I’m going to challenge you a little on why you think he ‘chose’ her over you. High on endorphins, novelty and the illicit and massively ego stroked, he chose ‘it’, not her, ‘it’ being a lifestyle change, and an escape from reality and responsibility, from the mundane and prosaic, the everydayness of every day, an escape into fantasy and prior young-ness, immortality and being adored, adored not for being him, but for the him he thought he would like to be, and ditto OW, both of them chasing a mirage image of themselves, transacted through projecting false images of each other, It was never a choice between two women, but between two men, the shallow, scared, bored, lying, incomplete and aging person he feared he was and the complete, fulfilled, honest and responsible person he liked and wanted to be. He chose the wrong guy for 6 weeks, the mirage, and then chose the real him, the person he wanted to see in the mirror, not the false one he saw mirrored in the eyes of OW.

It just feels like no matter what he does now, he can't take away the fact that there was a moment in time that he chose her over me. My IC has laboured the point to me that he chooses me now and chooses to stay and work on our marriage every day.

Thanks for clarifying your sitch.

Gently, I think the above a normal part of being in R a year out. It just takes longer than a year to feel a sense of certainty that both of you made the right choice.

R requires giving up justice and delivering mercy. (But you don't have to R.)

The fact is, your H did what he did. To R, you both now have to accept the facts and decide how you want to respond. You've both got to decide whether to heal or not and whether to stay or not - 4 choices, of which 2 are what SI is about: heal and stay vs heal and leave. (The other 2 options are to keep your pain and stay and to keep your pain and leave, neither of which is recommended.)

Part of your healing, whether you D or R or do something else, is to accept what your H did. Part of R is for verify his new behavior, accept it, and to find reasons to believe the 'real' WS is the one you see before you, a person who is grateful that you gave him a chance, a person who knows you always should have been Plan A, even though he thought you were not in the plan for a short while. I took 3.5-4 years of consistent actions by my W to accept that she saw me as what she really wanted. A year isn't enough time. Your H might be able to white-knuckle for a year or 2. (Some WSes fake it for longer than that.)

Part of your H's healing is to accept what he did and change from cheater to good partner. Another way of describing that change, in 'my' own language, is that the WS (and BS, too) has to get authentic for R to work. Or, the WS - BS, too - has to get totally honest for R to work.

I'm happy to read that your H is wrestling with this, because I don't think a WS can switch from inauthentic, dishonest, betrayer to authentic, honest, good partner in a year. I think it takes a lot of experience and time to construct a worldview in which cheating is OK, and it therefore takes a lot of time to dismantle that worldview and build another.

The paradox is that the cure for cheating is for the WS to stop attacking themself and start loving themself. After doing so much damage, a healed WS comes out feeling much better about themself than they ever did before. They have to figure out how to accept responsibility for doing damage to the people they love most. Then they have to change. Then they have to forgive themself without minimizing the damage they did.

If you ask for a joint session with your H's IC, you can probably get one. Your H will probably haveto sign a release and spend some sessions setting boundaries for what the IC can and can't say. And you'll probably have to respond to questions like, 'Why do you want to ask that question?' A joint session can, however, be enlightening about where your H is and where he's going.

I would rather step on a nail multiple times rather than consider the possibility.

Hope your husband is worshipping the ground you walk on. Questioning whether he loved you at all is something that is hard to forgive. In fact you shouldn’t easily forgive him for that. Feel free to rip him a good one every so often for that.

Affairs are fun because they are heavily based on physical and sexual attraction and the dirty secretive taboo aspect makes it thrilling. His psychotic episode was essentially the thrill of it that gave him the confidence and arrogance to question his love for you. He probably thought life with AP will be thrilling and that she farts rainbows . In one week he realized that her farts smell as magical as everyone else’s.

Him coming back is most likely based on his discovery that life with her isn’t what he thought it would be rather than his realization that he missed you or the marriage. The big question is what if she really farted rainbows and was perfect. Would he have thought about the marriage ? Please ask him that question.

Irrespective of that I hope you realize you are not a plan B kind of woman . You are worth so much , he’s just not good enough to realize your worth.
Reconciliation could work if the realization that you are the prize, the queen and that you will not be treated any less. So don’t spend any more time wondering if you are plan B. You are not and you should live your life ahead with that confidence. Make him work for R while you sit on that throne with that shining crown.

My wife was going to leave me for ap until he dumped her and my mom convinced her to stay. I was plan b

My 2 cents.

A year is not much time at all to process and "forgive" such a betrayal. Why the rush? I do understand that it hurts and you want the hurt to stop, but maybe forcing yourself to accept the unacceptable and all the mental gymnastics required is simply not possible right now.

What time and energy have you spent nurturing and loving and fulfilling yourself? Because this M has proven unsafe at the worst levels, and your gut is screaming that. It seems to me that you need to have a revenge A--with yourself. Deeply and completely engaging with your own needs and your own life often calms the storm and brings back safety. When you hurt, ask how you can take care of you? Maybe journal, a walk, a luxurious bubble bath, a solo movie outting, a trip to the nail salon, a new self-help book, a yoga session. Take care of you. Show up for yourself right now. I'm not saying 180, but just give yourself more time and attention to heal.

What happens to your M? Who the hell knows. Your WS will hopefully be doing something very similar to fill the big ol' holes in his self-esteem and ego that allowed this "psychotic break." I mean, do psychotic breaks just come out of nowhere? He better figure out what deficit broke him so that he can fix it. Otherwise, what exactly will prevent another?

Your reconciliation feels like the the most murderous of betrayals followed by the most rushed recovery. You just cannot run a full marathon after quadruple bypass last week. You need filling up, nurturing, recuperation, attention, adoration, selfishness--all provided by you and for you. And during this time of intentional self-love and indulgence, you can quietly and slowly watch your WH and the man he is becoming.

When your relationship with yourself has filled you to the brim with confidence and calm, you will be able to naturally move toward him--if he appears to be the changing, learning, growing, trustworthy partner you need. And your gut will feel safe in that choice.

But this time should be for you. Do not focus on controlling the outcome. Your gut is not ready.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:48 AM, Friday, June 9th]