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Agree. She's been rewriting history from the beginning. Ozzy, it's EXTREMELY common for the WS to claim they lost attraction for their BS,as a way to justify the affair. Nearly always, the BS is shocked to hear this. Because the WS never behaved as if they weren't attracted to them. Only after the affair starts, or when they first meet the AP, do they suddenly "lose attraction."

So all this crap about needing to be more confident to attract her,or work out to attract her, is ridiculous. It never had anything to do with you. It's all about her rewriting history to justify her shitty behavior. The problem isn't with you. It's her.

I'm not saying one shouldn't work on themselves. Self improvement is always a good thing. But doing it to get the attention of your cheating spouse is am exercise in futility.

What is SHE going to do to repair the damage she has caused you,your kids, your marriage, OBS, and OBS's kids?

Also, another good reason to tell the OBS, that I don't think has been mentioned yet..you are teaching her it's ok to lie and hide affairs, if it suits her. A dangerous thing to teach a woman who has been having an affair.

If she doesn't fix what's broken in her, there will be another OM. She will get bored,and do it again. Next time she won't tell you,since she knows you won't give permission.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:52 PM, Tuesday, April 4th]

Agree with BTB. If she had been losing feelings for you for many years, then instead of giving hints, why didn't she tell you that directly? She is very honest with you, right? Why did she wait until after her affair started? Her emotional affair started long before she confessed her lack of attraction to you. First, she claimed she lost interest in you, and when you asked why, she told you the rewritten half true- half lie history of your marriage. Gave you time to process this new BS info. You processed it, embraced it, and started believing it to be true. She prepared you nicely for the bomb she was going to drop on you. 12 days later, she reveals to you that she has feelings for this other man. By this time, you have already believed that you had shitty marriage and you are to blame for it, and so for you, her affair seemed inevitable. Then, she saw you being vulnerable and in fear, she immediately struck you with another BS that this is an escapism and she must do it while subtly hinting that if you don't okay her then this would end your marriage. You, out of fear, gave her blessings.

All that 'honesty' is basically her attempt to make you feel that you are in control here. She promised you that she would end her affair if you asked for it. You felt in control after hearing this. But, when you asked her to end it, she begged you not make her do it and later, reluctantly, begrudgingly ended it. She should have ended it without hesitancy. That's what she promised, right? But, she believed that as long as her 'honesty' made you feel you were in control of her affair, you would not ask her to end it. She clearly misjudged the pain of a betrayed spouse.

So hard to describe in a forum. Both things are true at the same time. I felt painted into a corner as she would want to leave me to get what she wanted. I thought this was a binary choice - she leaves me or I agree to this. I agreed to this. I tried to get my head around the binary choice of losing the kids vs agreeing to it, and tried to make my peace with it.

This is the textbook issue when people are pressured and coerced into an open relationships, often times the partner, likely suffering under low-esteem or is sort of co-dependent, is afraid that their SO is gonna do it regardless their approval, so in angst of losing them they go along with it. This is textbook! This is such a common issue and such a common reaction, I saw so many stories like this. I'm sorry, imho you are clinging to a love that has ended or never was there, I know that feeling, your only one that keeps you up is the one that you think she's honest. That's also very common, in particular if a WS "confesses" their infidelity, often times the BS, myself included, think that this 'honesty' is of so much value, because the WS could have done otherwise or never disclosed that information. You basically are creating arguments to stay, to continue. This 'honesty' is worth nothing, as I told you before, as a partner you also have an obligation to take care of your partner, to care for their health and well-being, this includes you avoid situation to 'fall' for another person. You just don't fall for someone else just for being there that's ridiculous, you might find someone else attractive, but that's also something you can and have to control. But falling in love with someone else requires more, you have to be in a situation and enviroment where you foster those emotions. And if you are already in a committed relationship and something like this starts to happen, you have to block this or you don't care about your most important partner and your relationship. Following and fostering those possible emotions for another person shows you're acting selfish and that you're not commited and not appreciative of your current partner and relationship. Imagine yourself in exactly the same situation but roles were reversed, you falling for "every" decent woman who's attractive to you and wanting to pursue these emotions and you excuse yourself by openly communicating it. That's hilarious.
You were coerced and abused into this, you have to find a way to acknowledge this.

Had my first IC session this morning, think it will be helpful.

My wife asked how it went and I filled her in on a few things. She is still very upset that I didn't tell her that I had looked at her FB messages when she has been honest the whole time. I said do you not think that telling me you had lost feelings for me but NOT telling me about feelings for the other guy was a gap in honesty? She said nothing had happened at that point and so this wasn't relevant at the time, it was just meant to be about our relationship.

This seems to be a sticking point. She is starting IC tonight as well so will see if that gets anywhere. Then on holiday tomorrow. For those that said a holiday is like a reward, well this has been booked for a year and I am not going to tell my kids we are cancelling it! Think it will be a good test actually of where we are without distractions.

Lurking Soul - I have said this over and over. To tell me flat out that we would have separated if it wasn't for the boys on the very day that she had seen the other guy, like it or not, made it about the other guy. I (stupidly I am sure to many on here) want to believe her that it was him that made her realise that our issues were bigger than she thought, but she really needs to understand that her timing meant it was very hard for me to not connect the two.

Anyway I don't plan on checking in while away. Thanks again for all of the support, even the tough love! I know there are disagreements on certain points but I know they are from the right place, and I am considering all options.

Have a great Easter break.

She is still very upset that I didn't tell her that I had looked at her FB messages when she has been honest the whole time. I said do you not think that telling me you had lost feelings for me but NOT telling me about feelings for the other guy was a gap in honesty? She said nothing had happened at that point and so this wasn't relevant at the time,

You read in her messages that she had feelings for OM?

First, saying nothing had happened yet is a lie. Whether she had acted on those feelings,or told anyone about those feelings, something had very much happened. Developing feelings for another man is a huge "something." It was a gap in honesty. And proof she's been dishonest with you. Her excuse is pure bullshit. And she knows it.

Also, it's so very odd that she would have any problem with you reading her messages. I mean, if she's been so honest with you,there would be nothing new for you to learn,right? Not to mention,if she was going to have this affair with your permission, she should have given you permission to read her messages at any time. All in the name of transparency.

Seems she's not nearly as honest as she wants you to believe.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:35 PM, Thursday, April 6th]

No the messages were not incriminating. It was more that I looked at them, and then (especially) that I held this nugget of information back for so long.

The rest I can't really disagree with, other than

Her excuse is pure bullshit. And she knows it.

I genuinely think she doesn't know this. She thinks that her feelings for me are independent of anything that was going on with him. Have been reading about the "fog" and think there is definitely some of that going on. She doesn't see anything wrong with the fact she withheld her feelings for him as she wanted to focus on our relationship. This doesn't sit right with me but there is no changing this mindset (at least at the moment).

But I am not making any drastic decisions. As I said earlier I feel in a much more controlled mindset than I was and am not in my own "fog" so much anymore.

Thanks again.

Has she been reading any books? They will help her understand her actions and mindset she had during her affair. IC is a good beginning though. Good luck to you.

No books, she isn't very interested. One of the things I am learning (the hard way) is I cannot control what she does (well for the most part, to her credit she did end it with him when I asked) but I can work on me.

I know earlier in the thread it seemed I was doing the pick me dance (and I was I guess!) but I am not anymore, I am biding my time and just seeing where this leads. I do hope it is together but if not then I am feeling more confident by the day that I can handle this.

Agreed that hopefully the IC can help her to see things in a different light. We are going to organise joint counselling too.

If she truly wanted to focus on her marriage,there wouldn't have been an affair. Or,at least have ended the affair without you asking her to.You can't spend time with another man,message and call him, and have sex with him,while simultaneously claiming to be focusing on your marriage. That defies all logic and common sense.

Unless your wife is an idiot, she knows that.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:10 PM, Thursday, April 6th]

She isn't interested? Then other than going to IC, what else is she doing to work on herself to regain those 'lost' feelings for you and also to help you heal? Does she really want to get out of infidelity?

Get Shirley Glass’ ‘Not Just Friend’s’. Read it. Ask her to read it and say you will be discussing it with her chapter by chapter like a book club.

If she wants to be open minded…She can be open minded about a women with slightly more conservative inclinations, a PhD in psychology, lots of experience as a marriage counsellor, an intact marriage, who is widely regarded as having written the seminal text on everyday affairs and boundaries.

She isn't interested? Then other than going to IC, what else is she doing to work on herself to regain those 'lost' feelings for you and also to help you heal? Does she really want to get out of infidelity?

I think his wife's lack of corrective actions is the part that isn't coming across Ozzy's posts.

She pursued her feelings towards the ex-lover, slept with him at least twice that OP knows about, insisted on keeping the relationship going and only begrudgingly stopped (or paused) the affair and is still insistent that none of these has anything to do with their marriage.

I get the sense the pause in her relationship with OM is just that - a pause; of course assuming it has not gone underground. And given her attitude, her IC could very well be focusing on her feelings towards the OM and how she can somehow accommodate that whilst still keeping Ozzy pacified - per her original plan.

There just doesn't seem to be any consequences or direct actions from her outside of verbally agreeing to not bed the other guy for a while; seemingly.

Until Ozzy feels confident where he can start demanding some real self-healing and corrective actions from his wife, this mostly just amounts to wishful thinking that she may, at some point, somehow fall back into the marriage.

I smell a rug sweep coming.

OP please check out those codependency books I mentioned.

Your WW is only letting you think you are in control.

[This message edited by Gutpunch at 7:38 PM, Thursday, April 6th]

I'm sorry Ozzy but you are still doing the "pick me". Maybe this time it's not as obvious (Think a waltz instead of moshing.) but it's still the "pick me."

You can't see it right now because you're too close to the situation, and frankly, you don't want to see it.

I hope you have a lovely vacation and that you also find some clarity while you're there.

I am biding my time and just seeing where this leads.

FYI, this is the passive version of the Pick-Me dance.

If you really want to stop doing the Pick-Me dance, then you should be taking active steps to take control of your own future, and not keep waiting and reacting to someone who has shown no indication of wanting to R.

Get up, make a plan on where you want to be in your life. If your WW decides she wants to walk on that same journey with you, well and goo. If she dawdles, then you know your answer.... The main thing is that you keep forging ahead.

Halfway through holiday. First couple of days went OK but then she left slip there had been contact from OM. My reaction was bad and hers was then one of fury that she told me.

That is all still unconnected in her mind, and rightly or wrongly I believe her. She really hasn't felt anything for me physically in years. There's been quite a few personality attacks this evening which has prompted me to go to another room and write this.

I don't see a way back. She really doesn't seem to want to find a way back but also doesn't want to lose the kids for half the time (and neither do i).

On the whole pick me dance... I just don't want my family broken up. For those that have, please tell me how it affected your kids? It feels inevitable now but I feel for them so much. And no, they won't be sensing anything as we generally get on so well (or we did until this shitshow....)

Sorry clearly not in a good mindset right now. I guess few are when the life they know and love is falling apart...

Halfway through holiday. First couple of days went OK but then she left slip there had been contact from OM. My reaction was bad and hers was then one of fury that she told me.

That is all still unconnected in her mind, and rightly or wrongly I believe her. She really hasn't felt anything for me physically in years. There's been quite a few personality attacks this evening which has prompted me to go to another room and write this.

I don't see a way back. She really doesn't seem to want to find a way back but also doesn't want to lose the kids for half the time (and neither do i).

On the whole pick me dance... I just don't want my family broken up. For those that have, please tell me how it affected your kids? It feels inevitable now but I feel for them so much. And no, they won't be sensing anything as we generally get on so well (or we did until this shitshow....)

Sorry clearly not in a good mindset right now. I guess few are when the life they know and love is falling apart...

Ozzy

I’m sorry for your pain and I very much understand your desire to keep things together for the kids.

I don’t think anyone here can predict what divorce will do for each of your kids. It will go better if you protect your mental health and be the best Dad you can in the circumstances. Exercise, sleep, eat, avoid alcohol.

I wouldn’t make dramatic decisions right now. Anecdotally most Waywards don’t have what it takes, but even those that do are in confusion for months. In time you might read some of their stories here.

I would let go of the notion your wife is especially honest, with you or with others. It’s just not true and untruth won’t help you now.

I would implement the 180 for your own peace of mind. It’s a lot like you did when you went out with your friend, it doesn’t have to be full of cold stares and blanking.

I would tell the other betrayed spouse.

I would state clearly again to your wife what you need to stay.married. She can weigh the consequences.

If your wife, in the next 3 to 12 months, truly wants to reconcile, you can work with that if it happens. There will be people here to give you perspective.

[This message edited by straightup at 11:00 PM, Tuesday, April 11th]

Sorry Ozzy.

Given the overt way your WW pursued the OM - particularly after the physical encounters - there was just no way she was going to go cold turkey; not given her lack of feelings for you.

Every minute that she spends with you and not with him is a reminder of what she's missing and lusting after. You need to be woried that she doesn't turn that resentment towards your kids. Remember that she will start to view them as the reason why she can't have the OM physically - i.e. if it wasn't for them, she's be in a bed with him now.

As others have suggested, take care of yourself as your kids will need you. PLEASE consider letting the other woman know now that you're starting to realize where your WW's true honesty and loyalty lie. I hate to say this but also be prepared for everything that she's shared and will share to be a minimized or outright lie the longer she is forced to pretend to be away from the OM.

btw - what was the nature of the contact - online or physical? Did he reach out and she reciprocated? And why was she in a fury - because of your disappointment?

Just to add - one of the many reasons folks have been urging you to reach out to the other wife was to elicit her help in enforcing the no contact to give you and your WW a chance to figure things out.

His wife knowing the truth could put pressure on him - without that, he is free to keep injecting himself into your marriage, and your wife. As you're discovering, the four of you (and your kids) are all now connected with each other and you can't simply try to heal part of you by ignoring the rest. Best to you.