SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you were a crappy husband, your wife could’ve talked to you, requested counseling, made demands for change… instead she decided to run off with another man. Your kids and your ex have absolutely no business pressuring you to take her back and making you feel like you’re in the wrong here.

Going forward, "No" is a complete answer. You don’t owe your kids or your an ex any further explanation; in fact, the less you say the better because all you’re doing by trying to get them to understand your perspective is inviting argument.

If they don’t respect your "no," then simply end the conversation any time it comes up. Eventually, they’ll get the message.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:00 AM, Wednesday, April 12th]

I lean most to WaitedWayTooLong's advice. Try to sit down with your kids one more time and explain what happened from your pov.

I may have worked too much. But your mother never told me how she felt. She never gave me a chance to fix it. Instead, she up and left me and hooked up with another guy. After all those years of marriage. I did nothing to deserve that. I never told you then but that devastated me. I moved on because I had to. The love is gone because she killed it. It was not my choice but I successfully made the transition.

Your treating this as if she just forgot my birthday and I should get over it is, frankly, immature and ridiculous. Trying to coerce me to relive my most painful moments because you find it the right thing is insensitive to me and what I've been through. I love you. At the same time when you act this way I am disappointed and do not feel very much love from you. I am asking you to reflect on what I've said as adults, not as kids who wish their parents weren't divorced.

[This message edited by Trdd at 3:10 AM, Wednesday, April 12th]

I can imagine the agony you have gone through to get where you are today.

I think the advice to talk to the kids is spot on. You should make sure that No means No. if they decide to "punish" you then that says more about them than you.

One thing you might tell them is that 5 years was long enough to kill any love you had for their mother and it makes no sense for them to expect you to marry her again.

NO is a complete sentence.

Hi HF,

Like other posters, let me encourage you to remain firm.
I love the phrase "no is a complete sentence".

But I would recommend that you keep communicating with your kids.
This is all part of growing up and learning what life is really about.
And take the dog for a good walk or a vacation, that's one family member who will remain loyal to you.

Hang in there,
FAWH.

@waitedwaytoolong

They felt my wife was truly remorseful and did everything she could to make amends, and that I should forgive her and work things out. I was always the guy who fixed things, and they felt I should fix this. They saw what she did as a giant mistake, and was totally out of character. Which was true. They felt what I did was a thought out decision and was the wrong one. I didn’t back down.

They all seem to believe it was some kind of midlife, pre-menopause or empty nest kind of issue. I really don't give much credence into any of it as, she planned it and then executed it without even giving a damn about me. She planned to I assume live happily ever after as she moved in with him and I guess whatever happens, happens with regard to myself.

I didn't go nuclear and try to destroy them after a found out most of the story. Perhaps that is where I went wrong in this, I should taken a billboard out and announced what I found out. Honestly I was too embarrassed, too embarrassed that I didn't know what was going on, too embarrassed to admit that the way I thought about my X was clearly not the way she and they thought about me.

And they like you, they all believe that I'm the guy who either caused it or is preventing progress especially with the debacle of the Bundys.

It is going to be very hard to cut off your kids. You have probably done this, but can you sit them down and tell them that what she did destroyed the marriage to the point of no return? By being firm with them and letting them know that you have moved on, and they and your EX should also? Do you think your EX is instigating this? Being firm with them and letting them know that there is zero chance of you getting back together is the best solution. At some point grandchildren will be coming around, and you don’t want to miss that

While they know about Bundy and that is started beforehand, how much they know is somewhat limited as even I doubt I know when everything started. Truth is a rare commodity when it comes from liars and I only "KNOW" what I could confirm.

Yes, I believe my X has instigated this or perhaps it was a meeting of the delusional minds, I had an "ambush" invitation to an event where they all were (kids, family and X), luckily I was able to keep any chance of a deep conversation at a minimum as there were over a couple hundred people at this event. Afterward, the calls from if not all of then I missed one.

There is only so much they can do honestly, but I am furious that again I'm the bad guy with these people. I've thought about flying the kids down and going out on the gulf for a couple of days where I lay down the way it will be and if they want what I believe and the what the lawyer was able to piece together. I was not as through as you were in your investigations, but there was some evidence that Bundy was in that house when I was not. The boat if big enough that they can sulk in their cabins and perhaps I'll get the telescope set up and stargaze, which will be my attempt at a hobby.

I hate to be a cynic, but I wonder …..the ex blew all her funds with the boy toy, right? How she’s keeping up the fun dynamic without you footing the bill? Or is she is now looking for support and handouts from the kiddos……

All her funds, I doubt that, I imagine compromised and not of the same status would be more accurate. Enough that she has real job and not her previous charity positions.

I can imagine the agony you have gone through to get where you are today.

Yes I believe this is going to be another one of those turning points in life and one not completely of my making. I tolerated their neutrality which was anything from my perspective during and after divorce. I am reaching the point of not being so tolerent any longer. This has opened old wounds and I am really getting quite angry over the way I've been treated which I didn't completely recognize until recently.

I appreciate the ear so to speak.

I tolerated their neutrality which was anything from my perspective during and after divorce. I am reaching the point of not being so tolerent any longer. This has opened old wounds and I am really getting quite angry over the way I've been treated which I didn't completely recognize until recently

.

I think all of us understand why you tolerated their neutrality, it comes from a place of taking the high road. I would even argue that it is the noble thing to do as it was a move for self-preservation of your relationship with your children. You knew that even though you were divorcing and you were far from pleased with the whole outcome, you also knew that one day there would be college graduations, weddings, grandchildren and other momentous family occasions where you wanted to be part of those moments that meant so much to you and try and keep things as cordial/professional as you could around your ex-wife. However, you have every right to be fuming mad at the whole situation and what she has done to manipulate it to where it is today.

Your children have crossed the line into meddling into your matters and it seems to be driven a lot by your ex-wife. Again, they are all adults and I think they deserve to have the full story or at least as much as you are willing to share. I will say this, as I've aged and of course been involved in this infidelity business, I don't buy the lines like "we just grew apart" that I used to buy hook, line and sinker like I did in my younger days. Your kids were likely fed some version of that story by your ex-wife and so they think you just drifted apart, you can logically "drift together' again. What they don't understand is that their mother drifted away from you and into bedding other men whilst still married to you. I'm not advocating that you lose your compassion and humanity, but don't concern yourself with the matters of your ex-wife, she is your ex-wife for good reason, a path she willingly choose. She may regret it now, but that is life, we all regret things we've done and choices we've made, but the difference is that most of us don't try and use our children to manipulate our ex-husband into taking us back, most especially after what she has done.

Using your children to manipulate you is another great reason why you should never get back to this women. She is a master manipulator. I think you did what was in your best interest at that time, although parts of it were not of your choice when she decided to quickly move out without you even knowing an affair was taking place. Now that you're all settled and happy, guess whose coming back looking for a second chance at the good life. Too bad, so sad. Screw that noise.

You are older than I, so I know you're wiser and more experienced, but I too have been divorced now coming up on 5 yrs. My life has been so much better after my WW left. Mine too was an exit affair, but I've caught wind from the kids recently that the land of rainbow and unicorns is starting to turn brown. I don't give a shit, I've moved on and am happily remarried to a better woman. But the kids, oh the kids. That's what binds us to the exWW. Forever an anchor, even when we've moved on. My kids stayed neutral as well, but they were far younger than yours at that time, so they still needed their mom, and the court made it as such. Yours are different, they are older and should have been wiser. I believe you still want that relationship with your kids, and so as such, you're going to have to sit them down and have a 1:1 session with them. You owe nothing to your ex, but you do owe it to yourself and your kids to save what you can with them. They just don't understand, and they may never get there until they've been a BS like you and I, and the rest of the folks on here. All you can do is to share with them how hurt you were, and everything that you know to have transpired between your ex and the AP. Lay if all out there, and give your kids the chance to see if from your angle. That's what you owe to yourself and to them. If they choose to continue down the path of taking your exes side, you can start cutting them out of the estate. Its not revenge, its taking your life back and standing up for yourself. YOu've been abused by your wife, and manipulated by her. You let the kids know that you will not tolerate any abuse from them either.

Maybe in your free time, find yourself a new lady friend. There are plenty of good ones out there. And if you do, that would be the end of your WW's hope to manipulating you back.

They all seem to believe it was some kind of midlife, pre-menopause or empty nest kind of issue. I really don't give much credence into any of it as, she planned it and then executed it without even giving a damn about me. She planned to I assume live happily ever after as she moved in with him and I guess whatever happens, happens with regard to myself.

I actually believe this is a thing. It’s what happened with my EX when we became empty nesters. Her whole life was devoting herself to our family, and that all ended after one car ride when we dropped our last kid to college. She got taken in by a guy younger, in better shape than me, and bragged about how he could get these moms to do things their husbands never imagined. She was like a lamb to a wolf.

That said, this probably isn’t what happened here. The mid life affair is done for excitement. Guy much younger, blue collar if you are white collar, bad boy. It’s typically not done replacing one relationship with another. The mid lifers are not thinking about walking away like your wife did. They are looking for some fun before real old age sets in.

You should be honest with your kids about what happened. Even if you can’t prove the relationship started while you were married, SHE one day decided to leave. SHE wanted a divorce. SHE broke up the family. SHE moved on suspiciously quickly and replaced you. Now she saw the grass wasn’t greener, she wants the old comfortable pasture back. Your kids need to know you no longer live in that pasture and it isn’t a choice. You have made a new life that hopefully will include them, but has no room for her.

The gulf idea is a good one. Won’t make it a quick phone call that can be brushed off, but rather a conversation over a couple days where they can ask questions and see you are done.

You say X seems to believe. How do you know this. Have you spoken? What do the kids say? Or is this supposition?

Before we can give advice, you could be a little more clear about what is up.

Your wife might be the mythical wayward unicorn that had a "good" and "logical" reason to have an affair, and if she shared her story we might all nod our heads and think "Well… That explains everything and it definitely outlines how hardyfool is wrong in not taking her back". Yet still – it would totally be YOUR decision if you wanted to or not.

But frankly – after a very long time on this board and having read, shared and contributed to thousands of stories I have yet to see anything even remotely resembling that mythical unicorn. In each and every instance I have seen there is no real excuse for the affair. There can be reasons, but those reasons are IMHO always square and center in the Wayward person. It’s then up to the betrayed person if they want to work out the reasons with the WS or not.

IMHO all marriage is based on the individual decision to be married.
That’s it.
Doesn’t matter if she wants to be married to you – unless you too want to be married to her.

So what she wants… it’s only relative to the extent of what you want.
What your kids want is also irrelevant. It’s what YOU want that counts on this issue.
I would just make that very clear to your kids: You are happy as-is and are not looking for any way to establish a romantic or husband/wife relationship with your wife or anyone else for that matter as-is and then – firmly if required – tell them to stop it.

I do think that it would/could make many family functions easier if you could be in the same room as her. I always feel sad when I hear of graduations or christenings or whatever where the dad has one celebration and then the mom has another. It makes the event about THEM and not the kid. Same with marriages where the groom or bride have to chose if their mom or dad is there, or if the step-dad (the Brady…) can be invited as the mom’s new long-term bf or husband. Maybe years after a divorce.
IMHO the goal of divorce (other than the obvious one to end the formal and emotional marriage) is indifference. It’s where – when you hear your ex has gotten remarried you simply think "That’s nice, now where is the peanut-butter?" because it has no real significance or impact on you. If you reach the above indifference you would be OK sitting at the head-table with the bride and groom and the other parents at a marriage. You might quietly request that your ex wasn’t seated beside you, but even if you would be civil and courteous because a) the event isn’t about you or her and b) you don’t really care a hoot.

Your wife might be the mythical wayward unicorn that had a "good" and "logical" reason to have an affair, and if she shared her story we might all nod our heads and think "Well… That explains everything and it definitely outlines how hardyfool is wrong in not taking her back". Yet still – it would totally be YOUR decision if you wanted to or not.

Thank you for the laugh, choke on coffee and then snicker again. Logic or Unicorn would not be words I would use to describe my X. And I agree with it would be my decision even if I were the orifice of this planet.

But frankly – after a very long time on this board and having read, shared and contributed to thousands of stories I have yet to see anything even remotely resembling that mythical unicorn. In each and every instance I have seen there is no real excuse for the affair. There can be reasons, but those reasons are IMHO always square and center in the Wayward person. It’s then up to the betrayed person if they want to work out the reasons with the WS or not.

IMHO all marriage is based on the individual decision to be married.
That’s it.
Doesn’t matter if she wants to be married to you – unless you too want to be married to her.

I am going to add this the conversation outline I'm making for dealing with the kids, this is pointed and precise. I have decided to invite them, the kids out on the boat for a couple of days. There we are going to have a hard discussion and I will directly and completely provide answer their questions and to why the answer is not going to change. In their defense I have never FULLY disclosed what I know about the situation to them. I am very certain they have a different story from that of the hard and unattractive truth.

If they wish to challenge the veracity of my story, I will provide each a copy of the folder that that my lawyer had created with his group. While it was no PI catching in the house such as @waitedwaytoolong, none the less it was quite damning and was effective during the settlement discussions. I will hope it will not come to that for many reasons.

I think all of us understand why you tolerated their neutrality, it comes from a place of taking the high road. I would even argue that it is the noble thing to do as it was a move for self-preservation of your relationship with your children. You knew that even though you were divorcing and you were far from pleased with the whole outcome, you also knew that one day there would be college graduations, weddings, grandchildren and other momentous family occasions where you wanted to be part of those moments that meant so much to you and try and keep things as cordial/professional as you could around your ex-wife.

I have always been a believer in keeping adult matters in the hands of adults especially when it comes financial or very personal matters. I also didn't see what would be gained, I was already the black hat causing the situation to be worse didn't seem to have any benefit. Unfortunately this was a mistake looking back on it today, I think but I am not certain as the kids are decent people....naive but decent.

You are older than I, so I know you're wiser and more experienced, but I too have been divorced now coming up on 5 yrs. My life has been so much better after my WW left. Mine too was an exit affair, but I've caught wind from the kids recently that the land of rainbow and unicorns is starting to turn brown. I don't give a shit, I've moved on and am happily remarried to a better woman. But the kids, oh the kids. That's what binds us to the exWW. Forever an anchor, even when we've moved on. My kids stayed neutral as well, but they were far younger than yours at that time, so they still needed their mom, and the court made it as such. Yours are different, they are older and should have been wiser. I believe you still want that relationship with your kids, and so as such, you're going to have to sit them down and have a 1:1 session with them. You owe nothing to your ex, but you do owe it to yourself and your kids to save what you can with them. They just don't understand

If I were wise I would not be dealing with this problem. I have the complete absence of interest in returning to my X, I too have happily moved on. I am quite happy in my life I have checked every box for a great life, but like you said and X with kids is always an albatross.

Blue than Blue's response is what I would say if WH wanted to get back together.

It's absolute garbage that people blame the BS for the affair. If I were with man who worked too much and the sex and companionship were less than I wanted I would talk with said man if we were married/exclusive. I would not hook up with randoms and blame him for my lack of integrity and impulse control.

Another thing that came to mind reading your post is that nothing has really changed with your working. In fact you may actually be working more...

So a person who cheated for attention or lack thereof would have an even greater reason to cheat? That wouldn't work for me.

I don't do second choice in my intimate relationships any more... I also didn't like having to get std tested thanks to wh whose nonconsensual for me behavior could have cost my life. I avoid him and his blame shifting self like I would a rabid animal that had a habit of biting..

Waywards of course can and do change, but from what I have seen in this forum, it's a hard road and requires a lot of work. Even then it's taking a chance that I took taking a person back who had betrayed me. That did not go well for me. Your mileage may vary. But I wish I had realized when I took WH back the first time that he was by far not the last man standing and I personally could do a whole lot better than his cheating self. Again my experience only.

Edited for typos

[This message edited by Shehawk at 9:48 PM, Thursday, April 13th]

I believe exes are exes for a reason. I'd be tempted to say if your ex thought she had valid reasons to part ways 5 years ago, then you have valid reasons to stay apart in the present. If they value your happiness, they should accept your choices.

Here is the bottom line and maybe this is the point you need to get accross. 5 years ago your wife blindsided you with a request for a divorce. You did not want one nor did you know where it came from. She took assets to move on to her new life. Nothing you could say could convince her otherise. She shacked up with a ne man. Had sex with that new man. Probaly prior to asking you for the divorce. Divorce was granted. You foucused on your work and thrived. Your wifes new relationship did not work. Why did it not ork. You moved on and became comfortable. Now everyone want to move back to the old relationship like nothing happened. Something did happen. You changed grew became a better person for yourself. Noone else. Now you are happy. So everyone should just screw off. You do not need her nor do you want her. Your mental helth cannot deal with it and your phisical health may not as well. What if she has an STD. You are moving on with your life and so should everyone else. You are not obligated to do anything YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO. Tell them plane and simple. YOU DO NOT WANT HER BACK IN YOUR LIFE like it was before the divorse. Why is that so hard to understand. We are no longer good for each other. She proved that.

[This message edited by lparistotle at 8:06 PM, Friday, April 14th]

This seems really inappropriate by all of them. It seems you should have a conversation with your ex seperately and inform her, in no uncertain terms, that you have no interest in "getting back together" and you would appreciate that she back off and leave your kids out of it, in particular.

Secondly, the conversation with your kids. They are adults. I assume they would balk if you proposed "arranging" a marriage for any of them. Simply put, they don't get a vote on your personal life. Let them know that you resent being made to be the bad guy in this. If their exes cheated on them, dumped them, and then came crawling back 5 years later enlisting their family to pressure them to take the ex back, presumably the kids would have a problem with that.

Well, I decided to it was time for a direct in person conversation with the X over the weekend. It was something I swore never to do again years ago, but it seemed the most direct course of action. This is the reason she was using kids, I just ignore her various communication attempts and methods.

So we had dinner, nothing romantic, a prime steakhouse and unless something has changed steak is not her favorite food. Told her this was a one time offer to be there are at a certain time. A dick move but I'm pissed off.

Cutting to the chase, I would like to say she got the message and I enjoyed the porterhouse, but nope was not going to happen so easily.

I got to sit there and listen to HOURS of exactly what I feared was coming, and not a surprise to be had. Apologies and tears and various well I don't even know what to call it, bargaining I guess. Someone on this thread mentioned a friends with benefits offer, well I guess you have experience with XWs because that offer came about as well (I declined of course).

I informed her that I had no interest in even seeing her again and while I thought poorly of her before now with her involving the kids to force this conversation, well its even less. Obviously she had a different opinion on that point.

I told her she made her choices years ago, and those are consequences that changed the trajectory of what was our family. I told her would never trust her, or even like her being around and that my life while not perfect is a life most would like to have and there would never be a place for her in it. It was time for her to find a boy toy or an old guy to compensate for the damage the Bundy did your her account (I know second dick move). This brought a great moment of comedy, she actually said she was not a whore to which I could not help myself, I lost control, I said of "course not a whore is usually paid, in this case you paid for Bundy, I believe slut would be a more correct description." It did feel good to finally rip into her, but I had promised myself to be cold and detached during this meeting and that was a moment of failure on my part.

I could go into the details of her apologies, reasons, feelings, the number of times she cried and wandered off the restroom and the rest of conversation but I'm not terribly motived to type the sewage out. Was anything resolved?, I couldn't honestly tell.

This was a really smart move to at least address the problem. It might not have solved it, but at least to your kids, you made some sort of effort. I’m sure it was painful, but still probably worth it.

Did the apology feel at least heartfelt, and did you confirm any details you might have wanted to know ?

Did she admit to putting the kids up to it?

Good luck with the next step which is the kids.

This was a really smart move to at least address the problem. It might not have solved it, but at least to your kids, you made some sort of effort. I’m sure it was painful, but still probably worth it

I had my emotions contained and I was approaching this as coldly as a chess game, I needed to take a few of the pieces or moves the kids could make off the board, such as Dad, "you have refused to even speak with her" where they could go from there with that line. I would be lying however I said there were not a lot of negative emotions boiling under the surface so I found it an uncomfortable evening.

Did the apology feel at least heartfelt, and did you confirm any details you might have wanted to know ?

Apologies, seemed to hear one every 10 or so minutes that evening. Heartfelt, that is an interesting question. I believe she regrets her actions most likely in my opinion to the cost benefit and end results, although when I pointed that out, it was met with niagara falls.

If I were to guess from some of her comments, it is more that I'm clearly pivoting into the second part of my life. Since the company has been sold and I'm reaching the end of the time tether in the purchase agreement so it is obvious her stated excuses and reasons for her actions were well beyond foolish. So in that regard heartfelt, but heartfelt for causing me harm because she wanted to move into something she thought was obviously better in her opinion, I doubt it.

Details, it wasn't my objective but I did probe a couple times via statements. I stated she brought Bundy in my bedroom the bed which caused her to become irate vs when I pushed on having him into the house which she did not respond to directly which I took as confirmation.

Did she admit to putting the kids up to it?

Of course not, closest to it was her stating that she has told the kids it was the biggest mistake of her life and she wanted to take it all back and if she could just start talking to me again she would make her life mission to be worth another chance. So of course she was behind it

I asked her has even told the kids full nature of her actions, that caused her to excuse herself to the restroom while basically blubbering. So I took that as a no

Yes, kids are next oh what fun that will be, sigh.

You are handling this circus about as well as you can.
Stay strong.

I think you handled this about as well as you possibly could and from an optics standpoint, you've diffused your kids best (yet incredibly weak) argument that you won't even hear their mother out. Well, you did, you sat through what had to be an agonizing meal with her, the woman who brought your life some of the deepest and most immense pain and left you completely alone to deal with it on your own...and deal with it you did.

Now you can tell your kids the reasons why you divorced and give them the facts about what happened. They need to understand that their mother manipulated them, because that is who and what she is. She took the dinner with you because she thought she could strong arm you into taking her back and she realized probably within the first few minutes that wasn't going to happen. But not for lack of trying, she offered you sex quite freely...ironically, something that probably during your marriage became less frequent as time went on. That just reeks of total desperation on her part. It is unfortunate that she made the choices she did to bring her here, but she did make those choices, so it is time to live with those consequences.

If there is one thing that those of us here could tell her it is that she needs to work on her shit, work on herself and then worry later about finding someone. Clearly, she is a pretty broken person, as she demonstrated with her cheating and then inability to keep a relationship together with her boy toy(s). The common theme there is her and her brokenness. While fixing herself will likely never get you back, she needs to be a better person for herself, your children and someday grandchildren.