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I'm actually embarrassed for your ex-wife after reading your posts. I can't imagine being a woman approaching retirement age offering an ex a fuck buddy arrangement as an enticement to hopefully getting back together. Also, I nearly died of cringe while reading how she blubbered over dinner and excused herself multiple times to go to the restroom while you coldly dressed her down.

If she had simply apologized for what she did to you, taken responsibility for her abhorrent actions in the past, and accepted your lack of interest in reconciling, she could've walked away after 1 glass of wine and an appetizer with some semblance of her dignity intact.

The fact that she sat there for hours throwing herself a pity party and debasing herself just goes to show that she has learned nothing from her past experiences and hasn't matured a day over age 16.

I think you handled this about as well as you possibly could and from an optics standpoint, you've diffused your kids best (yet incredibly weak) argument that you won't even hear their mother out.

That was exactly my intention, dealing with the optics and preventing any chat I have with the kids devolving into additional conditional points of discussion.

I'm actually embarrassed for your ex-wife after reading your posts. I can't imagine being a woman approaching retirement age offering an ex a fuck buddy arrangement as an enticement to hopefully getting back together. Also, I nearly died of cringe while reading how she blubbered over dinner and excused herself multiple times to go to the restroom while you coldly dressed her down

The cringe factor was extraordinary for me too, I had debated booking a private room in the restaurant for the talk but I was very concerned how she would interpret it and what licenses she might take with the privacy. I settled on buying a couple of the small tables nearby and having us seated in a quiet corner, BUT her teary restroom trips were noticed and I felt more than one set of eyes disapprovingly upon me. I doubt they could hear anything, but again I'm the bad guy.

I'm in my mid-fifties and she is three years younger, however your point about of a sixteen year old doesn't fall far from the truth with regard to consequences and action and where they always lead. Her behavior over the last what appears to be seven years is so incompatible with the woman I recall adoring at one time. If Donald Sutherland walked in and did his body snatcher scream I would nod and say ok, now makes a bit of sense.

I'm suspect there are other factors and possibly people at work here, but I REALLY don't want to play the role Alice and stick my head into that rabbit hole.

Mid 50s? Your whole life is ahead of you!

Now that you have permanently cut the cord, enough of the living like a monk. Go out and take the world by the ass. There are thousands of women who will be happy just to be around you. Dude, get out there and tear it up!

Who gives a rats ass what the kids think? You deserve this chance. Take it! Make your own luck.

Now that you have permanently cut the cord, enough of the living like a monk. Go out and take the world by the ass. There are thousands of women who will be happy just to be around you. Dude, get out there and tear it up!

I don't live like a "monk", women are readily available and never said I do not partake, however I do keep my relationships with women far less serious which is my preference. I'm not looking for another wife or 25 year relationship, at least not at the moment, it's always possible that could change.

I really have difficulty thinking of anything more ridiculous than people regardless of age swiping left or right on an ap, clubbing or a parade of fiances or multiple short term marriages. Also I see it as very ridiculous bounce from bed to bed like a college freshman above the age of 40.

Who gives a rats ass what the kids think? You deserve this chance. Take it! Make your own luck.

There are lots of things in this world that are transitory, family and children do not fall into that category. They are my children and while they still young and are prone to naive mistakes, it doesn't change the fact they transcend material assets, accomplishments and accolades. They are important and I will not dicard them.

It really is only something that can be well understood after having kids.

Hardyfool you said it best and this is what you need to tell your kids.

I keep my relationships with women far less serious which is my preference. I'm not looking for another wife or 25 year relationship.

That part of your life died the day your ex-wife left you. You do not want to go back to it especially not with your ex. She divorced you. There is no coming back from that. There is no do over regardless of the reasons. You were a mess when it happened and she did not care. Now that you have recovered you are happy with your current situation. Why would you want to go back.

If anyone heard a loud bang about a couple of hours ago, it was my head banging into my desk. I just had a letter delivered, by a courier. I thought I was getting sued by someone and I think I would have preferred it, once I saw the writing.

I haven't read it, not going going to either. Since the kids are coming tomorrow I doubt it will be necessary reading.

Return it to the sender, unopened.

If she wasn’t using the kids against you, I would also agree with blues suggestion of returning it unopened. However, any insights to what kind of crap she is spewing out to both you and the kids would probably be helpful in your conversation with them. She might be stating false claims, and you should be prepared to counter those when you meet with them

Read it just for that reason

I think it would be wise to read it. I agree that there might be some things in there that have legal ramifications.

I'm going to third that you read the letter as it could definitely have something in there that you need to address with your kids. I highly suspect you've got some things to head off before speaking to your kids.

My husband and I were empty-nesters when we put our third child in college. I nearly tap danced out of that dorm. I was so glad for someone else to be looking after him for the next four years. Actually, he’s got his MBA and has a great job and so did his siblings. It never occurred to me or my husband that it was time to cheat because we didn’t have any kids in the house. What happened to me was I found the best job anybody’s ever had and enjoy the heck out of it, and my husband has his own business to run. In fact, he’s no longer the person he was when we were young and he cheated when traveling. He’s a homebody now .
There never is an excuse for cheating. I don’t care how hard somebody tries to make you believe it. You’re either married or you divorce. If you’re divorced, you can have affairs, if you married you can’t. Unless the couple comes into their marriage both knowing it’s poly then it isn’t. Please don’t ever believe that excuse.

And your WW didn't make a mistake. A mistake is forgetting to grab a gallon of milk at the store. An A is thousands of conscious decisions to betray. There are so many ways to get out of the situation, but she didn't use any tools to shut it down.

Good luck on your talk with the kids.

I had the kids down for the weekend and told them we were going to spend the time in the gulf as this was going to be a serious discussion and this would prevent anyone from immediately wandering away including myself should they not like the discussion.
My talk with them was frank and started off with questions about what they wanted out of this and what they knew about what had transpired. First, one of their objectives was to at least get me to begin speaking with the X as I have refused to speak, engage or even be in the same room with her since about 3 weeks after D-Day. The second objective was to create the possibility of some kind of reconciliation for whatever their reasons.

I asked why I would remotely wish to entertain these objectives, of course boiling it down it comes down to them believing I was the majority responsible party. I let this go on for a while until they wore themselves down a bit, glad I had fully stocked the bar as an Old Fashioned or two helped a lot.

I apologized to them, as it was clear that my nature of keeping personal matters personal had allowed this story to take on a life of its own. I got up went down to my cabin and got the folder box and returned to the table, it did get them to be silent which was a plus. I told them in this box is a different story, that they really don’t need or should fully know, however, I am willing to share it.

I told them they are behaving like children who believe in a 100% good guy and 100% bad guy scenario, one of which they should be old enough and educated enough to know doesn’t exist. While I may have been gone or preoccupied or whatever too often, I was not the one who brought Bundy into the house. I was not the one who lied and betrayed someone who had many so many opportunities over the years to do the same to her with more physically attractive ladies, however, each and every time I declined. She made her choices, I have made mine, if you want to know my reasons for making that decision feel free to go into the box, at that moment I also dropped the unopened letter on the table from the other day. Told them it was from their mother, and that I had no intention of reading it, they could return it to her or read it was their choice.

I told them while I loved them, they had disappointed me with their perspective on the divorce and that my patience for being the bad guy is over, and that our future relationship trajectory will be affected by their behavior and I will not suffer their, their mother’s or the rest of the family’s agenda any longer. I invited them for this discussion because they were my kids, pretty much the only ones I would even indulge in talking about it with.

My daughter asked about me, was I going to spend my life hunting sugar babies or thots (I had to ask what a thot was). I asked her what the difference between her mother and a thot was which got a guppy fish face from both of them. Except that a thot had not screwed me over and made me the bad guy. A thot also would have lower mileage since their mother was banging Bundy a human cesspool and god knows who else. A thot also would not be a menopausal 52+year-old woman who decided to screw up the entire family with her treacherous actions, your mother’s actions were no mistake, she had a plan, and the hell with me. At this point, I was too angry and said I’m going up to watch the stars and they could do whatever they wanted to do, including take the dingy back. My daughter yelled as I was heading up the staircase, she knows she fucked up and caused this. Told her this was the first time I ever heard that, but it doesn’t make any difference unless she has a time machine. Don’t ever repeat mistakes, which I’ve told them many times.

The next day was a bit better, they seemed to start to get it, well my son did, and daughter well this remains to be seen. However they did apologize for making me the total bad guy They confessed to being worried about their mother of course and that I’m a party guy or a hermit, neither of which I told them is true, I am what I always am….private. No thots, sugar babies or revolving doors, and I’m perfectly fine being single. In fact life is really bright at the moment outside of this problem which I hope we can put behind all of us.

Do I think it was solved, no, but I hope there has been progress. Sorry this just spewed when I started typing.

Do I think it was solved, no, but I hope there has been progress. Sorry this just spewed when I started typing.

You gave them the truth, not your perspective or opinion, but the truth about what happened. It will take them time to understand how much their mother has gaslit them on this topic. Of course they are always going to love both of you as parents, but she is the one who manipulated them to get a chance to speak with you. Now it should be completely clear why you've taken the actions you have taken.

The discussion about your dating life was out of bounds and your daughter needs to learn some boundaries there. That is not to say that she cannot have an opinion, but she is sticking her nose where it doesn't belong there. Hopefully with time she will see that she needs to back away and if she insists on involving her self in the affairs of her grown parents that her mother is only place to go, since you will not entertain those discussions going forward. You are a grown man, you are allowed to date anyone and do anything with anyone you so choose and kindly, to your daughter it is "nunya business".

Did your children have any interest in the folder box, or was its mere existence enough for them to realize that their version(s) were probably biased?

Are you sure that your kids are actually concerned about your wife or are they secretly worried that you'll end up with a younger woman who will cut into their inheritance? Are they at least partially motivated for you to reunite with your wife as a way of keeping your money to themselves?

I ask this because your daughter's mention of sugar babies and thots implies that she feels entitled to not only tell you how you should live your life but how to spend your money.

Did your children have any interest in the folder box, or was its mere existence enough for them to realize that their version(s) were probably biased?

I never asked the question, the box was on the table they may have read every page or never opened it. They have seen when I have put a folder down before on a table before discussion in the past, they know it meant and that was intentional on my part. There was an effect afterward which was the objective for having the box.

Are you sure that your kids are actually concerned about your wife or are they secretly worried that you'll end up with a younger woman who will cut into their inheritance? Are they at least partially motivated for you to reunite with your wife as a way of keeping your money to themselves?

I ask this because your daughter's mention of sugar babies and thots implies that she feels entitled to not only tell you how you should live your life but how to spend your money

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They don't really know the true extents of their perspective inheritances at the moment and I have little intention of dying for the next 20-30 years. I was never one to talk about financial shortfalls or bounty with them, so it I doubt it seems out of the ordinary.

I believe their especially my daughters intentions are multifold tilted toward their mother of course. In the case of their mother it was made clear by them that the life of Peg Bundy was very unpleasant in many ways and she now avoids relationships of any kind. They want me to play a role in her life and believe it would beneficial for both of us. I however am not willing to stick my head into that rabbit hole again. In my case, it mostly motivated by the factors of perceived loneliness and how that extrapolates into my future life and plans. It is not an unreasonable concern as there is always been the examples of men who suffer a mid life crisis buy a red Ferrari and rent a bimbo. So far it does not seem to be an affliction of mine, although I did buy the boat with a future plan of taking it down to see a penguin or two. They also know my mantra of never repeating mistakes and my untrusting nature would make it near impossible for some woman to play me again.

No, unfortunately my daughter has always had a need to exert herself into things outside of scope, this is just her thinking she is smarter than everyone else . I believe the weekend helped clarify a bit of a reality check for her and I'm a bit at fault for this, I should taken their foolishness more seriously in the beginning instead of assuming they would work it out themselves.

If they are asking for you to be civil with the WW I think that is ok.

They want to know you can be in the same room and be okay. I think that is a typical kid expectation right?

Beyond that, it is not their business especially if you are not bringing those women anywhere near the kids.

If they are asking for you to be civil with the WW I think that is ok.

They want to know you can be in the same room and be okay. I think that is a typical kid expectation right?

Civility, I believe my civility has been a major contributor to the situation. In hindsight I believe it would have been better if I had been a bit atomic and exposed the situation for what it actually was.

I had simply refused to acknowledge their mother in any way during the last 5 years, she was until dinner the other night effectively someone who was deceased. I never spoke of her, nor answered any comment or question regarding the Bundys'.

I've had the misfortune of being in the same room several times, I simply avoided or ignored her or them at the time.

There was something good to come out of gulf trip, it seems my son understands a fair bit more about this now. A very surprising and pleasant phone call this morning has made my day.

Your wife has some guilt about tearing the family apart. That is an uneasy feeling so if she can get the kids and others to GUILT YOU into being forgiving she gets that thin edge of the wedge in and the next thing you know someone is throwing a party and everyone is singing Kumbaya. With them ALL making sure she is in your field of vision all night.
I think you scotched that at the beach. No means no. It is a complete sentence.