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Civility, I believe my civility has been a major contributor to the situation. In hindsight I believe it would have been better if I had been a bit atomic and exposed the situation for what it actually was.

I had simply refused to acknowledge their mother in any way during the last 5 years, she was until dinner the other night effectively someone who was deceased. I never spoke of her, nor answered any comment or question regarding the Bundys'.

I've had the misfortune of being in the same room several times, I simply avoided or ignored her or them at the time.

There was something good to come out of gulf trip, it seems my son understands a fair bit more about this now. A very surprising and pleasant phone call this morning has made my day.

Don't kick yourself for being civil. It is called taking the high road. I mean, if you are concerned with such matters, your legacy within your family and close friends will be that you wife took out her infidelity knife and stabbed you in the heart with it repeatedly, yet for the sake of the family you kept things civil through the years. It is actually a sign of strength and maturity that in the face of insurmountable anguish and discomfort that you kept things civil for the sake of your children and grandchildren's relationship with both you and her.

However, now you've shared the full truth with your kids, if that impacts your kid's relationships with her, that is now on her to fix and it is not your cross to bear.

Imagine these scenarios:
One of your kids wedding.
A grand-childs confirmation or Bar Mitzva.
A graduation.
A naming-service for a grand-child.
A house-warming party

These are all events your kids might want to hold or celebrate.
Could you (and would you) do so with your ex in the same area?
Or would your kids have to chose one or the other, or have two, or worry that the event focuses on you and your wife’s disputes OR the real reason the event is held?

I fully understand your reluctance to be around your ex or to get reinvolved in any unnecessary way. The way you present the situation I am totally 100% behind your stance. If however all your kids want is that you can be about as civil to your ex as you might be to your daughters new mom-in-law sister at your daughters marriage reception… then that is IMHO a reasonable request.

To me the key of healing is indifference.

On a side-note: I have a former colleague who walked in on his wife with OM and divorced her. He made it his quest in life to never again interact with her. Managed that for 8 years (or so) but then realized that it was mainly damaging their daughter – as in mom and dad (and new dad and new mom) not being as a group at recitals and school-plays and bdays and such. I don’t doubt he still doesn’t like his ex and has absolutely no interest in getting back together though.

There is something called covert narcissism. Usually we think of narcissists, as loud and the center of attention and getting their way. Covert narcissists are still getting their way, but they do it quietly, and usually by being the victim. That may be what’s going on in your ex’s family and the children. She must be very good at playing it. What she should’ve done years ago is apologize to everyone for her stupidity, and that she hopes at some point the two of you can be civil enough to each other to be in lives of your kids. I just don’t understand why everybody is catering to her. Don’t they know that she stunned you with an abandonment? You have to admit she has been very good at it. Almost Oscar worthy.
Look up covert narcissism. There are several books about it. There is a psychologist, Dr.Ramani Durvasula who has several YouTube‘s about narcissism, and I think in one she actually discusses the covert type. I’m not suggesting this is your wife, but I know she’s done something to get everybody in her environment to think you’re the bad guy.

These are all events your kids might want to hold or celebrate.
Could you (and would you) do so with your ex in the same area?
Or would your kids have to chose one or the other, or have two, or worry that the event focuses on you and your wife’s disputes OR the real reason the event is held?

Perhaps you misunderstand the dynamic in such situations. I do not stare or insult her; I simply treat her as if she doesn't exist. Civility does not require someone to acknowledge the other party. We have already been in multiple situations with the kids, for example, university graduations. It is quite easy to avoid drawing attention to our "dispute as you put it" and not acknowledge her presence.

I fully understand your reluctance to be around your ex or to get reinvolved in any unnecessary way. The way you present the situation I am totally 100% behind your stance. If however all your kids want is that you can be about as civil to your ex as you might be to your daughters new mom-in-law sister at your daughter’ marriage reception… then that is IMHO a reasonable request.

The kids, and now I should change that to my daughter, want more than civility. They want engagement, and for me to care more about her than I would a stranger. I'm not certain I see her even at the level of a stranger, as a stranger would be a possible innocent whereas their mother chose to harm me. I explained to the ex-wife during that unpleasant dinner that she was a person who betrayed and harmed me and I would never see her beyond her treachery and her intent to further her happiness and welfare at the expense of my own.

I understand the point Bigger you are trying to make, however, it would require setting myself on fire to keep the ex-wife warm.

I think that is the difference, an adulterous wife chooses to harm her husband and it is not any different than a criminal choosing their crime and the people it will harm. No apology in the world can compensate for the damage, they are simply words.

To me the key of healing is indifference.

I had thought I had achieved indifference; I just did not care if she prospered or frankly passed on. The only reason for the re-engagement has been dealing with kids’ involvement.

I simply treat her as if she doesn't exist.

IMO, civility does require acknowledging a person who exists does, in fact, exist.

I mean this post as an observation, not a criticism. One way of looking at indifference is to think about ow much energy one gives to the object of indifference. Some of what you've written indicated to me that you give a significant amount of energy to preparing yourself to deal with your W. If that's the case, you might not have reached indifference.

OTOH, some of what you write does indicate indifference.

I don't know where you are overall WRT indifference, so I recommend looking inside yourself. If you find areas that aren't indifferent, you've found areas that could use some work.

Meanwhile, I think you're right in stating and maintaining boundaries.

I applaud you hardy. I like your determination and how you handled things. I politely suggest that you maybe look into what Bigger and others mean with indifference. I had to learn it myself. How you deal with your ex is commendable but attempting to treat her like she doesn't exist is investing energy and often times implies a kind of revulsion, something you have to fight against. Going the path of indifference let's you deal with them like they are just randos on the street, you say hello, yes and no, but you ultimately don't give a fuck, you are totally relaxed because they don't matter, thus you don't invest energy and don't generate "bad" energy. You can engage with these people on a daily basis but if it comes to certain aspects of your life you make clear they can fuck off because they are not in that position to get anything from you. That's my take on it.

IMO, civility does require acknowledging a person who exists does, in fact, exist.

OTOH, some of what you write does indicate indifference.

In its truest form, I would agree, however, I have difficulty believing anyone reaches true indifference toward someone who causes them grievous harm. So, the very best I will be able to achieve is removing that person from my thoughts and I will try not to walk through her as a ghost would while we are in the same space and maintaining decorum.

I mean this post as an observation, not a criticism. One way of looking at indifference is to think about ow much energy one gives to the object of indifference. Some of what you've written indicated to me that you give a significant amount of energy to preparing yourself to deal with your W. If that's the case, you might not have reached indifference.

Unfortunately, I have recently been spending a great deal of time and energy preparing and dealing with her agenda. In my opinion, it was better to turn into this situation than wish for it to disappear on its own. This required a fair bit of time and preparation as I was hoping it would resolve as quickly as possible which of course it naïve on my part.

Did you ever read the letter she wrote?

Here's the potential problem I see. It takes energy and attention to keep a person in a state of being erased from one's mind, just as it takes energy and attention to compartmentalize in life. Indifference takes a lot less energy.

I agree that your best bet was to address your kids directly.

Did you ever read the letter she wrote?

The letter which is about half as thick as one of the old Encyclopedia Britannica books is currently the box. I imagine reading it would be the antithesis of indifference. I have vacillated on this point.

Here's the potential problem I see. It takes energy and attention to keep a person in a state of being erased from one's mind, just as it takes energy and attention to compartmentalize in life

Yes, it does, we are in agreement on this point.

HF, your story helped me recently in a situation with one of my adult children. My middle son (33) is getting ready to propose to his gf. Your description of how too could be in the same room with your XWW came to mind. I let my son know that I could be civil during the wedding festivities and would do what he needed. I could see his worries fall off his shoulders.

I told myself that if ND could do it, I could, too. I thank you for sharing your experience.