SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you are familiar with my situation, my H and I have sons…all adopted…all with issues from birth mothers’ substance abuse during pregnancy. All of them saw a neuropsychologist every two years from age 5ish - 15ish years old.

We have all kinds of challenges within our family these days, but very recently I have a new, disabling fear.

One of our sons suffers from some mental issues. He has fetal alcohol syndrome. He has had suicidal ideation several different times in his life. He has spent a week in a psychiatric unit on two different occasions. He has told me that he has been diagnosed with psychosis. He used to use very "hard drugs" and has told me that on 4 different occasions he had to be brought back to life after extreme drug use. He generally exaggerates, but without knowing for sure, I have decided to accept his accounts of these things that I have not personally witnessed. Better to take him seriously than to assume exaggeration and therefore underestimate the seriousness.

Presently, (for some time now) he is showing some additional concerning behavior. He is drinking more and more. At home…at work. He isolates himself in his truck in our driveway, EVERY NIGHT from the time he gets off work…7:00 pm - anywhere from 4-8 hours playing shooting / violent video games and playing loud, offensive (to me) music. He rarely interacts with us. Doesn’t go anywhere without his backpack - I think alcohol inside.

Historically he has been avoidant of conflict. He says he was picked on in school by one of his brothers, but I have no way to know for certain, because he is very often ‘the victim’. When he was in his early teens, he once told his younger brother that one day he was going to kill the family. When he saw his brother’s shocked reaction, he amended his statement, stating, "Well, not Dad or older brother, but you and Mom."

I finally got him to go to rehab about 2-3 years ago, and he really took to it. Counselor said he was "all in". Came out with big plans to not only keep sober, but also getting his life in general better organized. Playing different, uplifting music. Calm. Optimistic. Short lived.

Currently he has the best job he has ever had, has been there for over a year, and likes it. He has been having vehicle issues for around 9 months now, so I take him to and from work every day while he saves up for a new (to him) vehicle. Got a big tax return check, and proceeded to blow all of it. I didn’t know what all he bought, but some of it was just electronic "toys", etc. No new vehicle.

A few weeks ago, when it was time to go to work, he was gone from the house. I called him, but his phone had been turned off. He doesn’t share last names, phone numbers, or addresses of friends. I couldn’t get in touch with him just to see if he was ok. I had a bad feeling, so I was really scared. Not like him to blow off work. Finally my oldest son got a hold of him through Facebook or something, and he was out of town, "overslept", and had made it to work several hours late. I’m guessing he was drunk.

Then he was simply gone without a word again a couple of weeks ago. It had been very cold that night, and when it was time for work, and he was not in his room, I went out to check his truck. I was concerned about hypothermia maybe. He wasn’t where he usually sits in the drivers seat, but I looked into the back seat which was a bench seat. He wasn’t there either, but to my horror, I saw a gun lying on the back seat. I don’t know guns, but I sent a picture of it to a family member who is an ex- sheriff’s deputy. He said it was not an automatic. More like a pistol with an extended barrel.

It was 3 days after the school shooting in Nashville, TN.

I took it from his truck, and hid it. For 2 weeks. Nothing. Didn’t ask me about it. Until today.

Picked him up from work. Said we needed to talk. Basically told me that he had talked with several police authorities, that I had committed a felony robbery of his gun, and if I didn’t give it back to him, he was going to call the cops and get me put in jail. Proceeded to further recall 10,000 horrible things I have said and done since the beginning of time.

To my credit, I remained calm. Told him I had been waiting to talk to him about it - and welcomed it. After that, every time I spoke, he got madder and madder, and accused me of more and more. So, I finally said that if I wasn’t going to be able to have a conversation with him, there was no reason to continue to talk about it at this time. And that he would just have to do what he had to do. He said he was going to call the police.

So, in front of him I called my sister and explained that I might be away from home for a few days (?) and would she look after my H. I briefly explained why.

When we got home, he talked to my H about the situation and, to my surprise, got no sympathy from H. Told me I could give him the gun, give him $700 or he was calling the police.

I spoke again with my family member re the situation. He laughed. Said no cop in the world would characterize my actions as robbery. Said at the very worst, could be burglary. Said that if the police came, they would want our "stories". Said I should explain that I wasn’t stealing the gun, but rather securing it, that I had grand babies at my home from time to time, and that my intent would be understood.

But…also said that there was no way that they would arrest me, but would probably tell me to return it to my son. And…I can not - will not do it.

I’m scared. For my son. He seems to be spiraling lately - what usually happens prior to a psych in patient stay.

Also, for our family. He really loves his dad and I think would never harm him. But he really dislikes me, and I am concerned about what would become of my H if something happened to me.

But mostly, I’m feeling really petrified when I allow myself to wonder if I am worrying too much, or if my fears could be justified. I would walk through fire to protect my kids, but I cannot dismiss my worries if it is possible that my son could hurt people.

As far as the police go, if told to give the gun back, I would explain my concerns.

But…if they don’t accept that, I cannot refuse. They would find it at my house, and I can’t afford to be away from H. Even if I don’t give it back, he could always buy another one, and just hide it better.

Y’all, am I just overreacting?

Should I feel the way I do?

I would go to hell and back for him, but I must take every precaution I can to prevent him from hurting others.

And if you agree with my concerns, what do I do? Who do I call?

I hear, after one of these horrific shootings, that "If only they had warned people, or tried to get help".

Who would I call to say that I’m concerned that my son might hurt someone?

I can’t bear to even entertain these thoughts about my son. I cannot fathom that he would ever hurt anyone. My oldest son feels differently - says he has tried to stab him on several occasions. Oldest son is a black belt and was able to prevent it. But i also cannot afford to put others in danger with my lack of action.

Please help me.

I'd be concerned, too, but how was he able to acquire a gun with a history of mental health issues?

This latest shooting yesterday was by a seemingly normal guy, highly educated, great job and family, although I"ve read he was suicidal, not sure of the truth right now.

No way in hell would I ever give that gun back, AND I would contact the police and explain the situation.

Your son sounds volatile, add to it he's drinking, it's a dangerous combination. He has no business owning a gun. Ever.

Does he legally own the gun? Not sure where you live but does he need/have a permit? Is the gun registered, if required?

I think if he does not legally own the gun you can turn it in to the police? Because I agree with you, I would not want to give it back to him. I'd try to find a legal way to keep it from him.

Of course he can get another. You said he has made threats to harm others. Can you go to the police with that? IDK perhaps they can get him a 72 hour psych hold?? I know that's harder to do than people realize but I'd start with the authorities and see what is possible regarding the gun and your unraveling son.

You are not overreacting.

WhatsRight

Of several evils which one sounds least bad:
Mrs. WhatsRight – we are here to question you about a stolen gun.
Mrs. WhatsRight – can you explain why you handed over the weapon used to shoot (place number-of-choice-here) at the mall yesterday.
Mrs. WhatsRight – we found your son by the lake. It looks like he shot himself. Our condolences.

Frankly – I wouldn’t worry about the police. In fact – one possibility would be to hand it in to the police, and then allow him to go pick it up. He would have to prove ownership of course.

I worry more about his behaviors and – with the deepest kindness from my heart – if you are enabling him.
Like the spending of the tax return while having you chauffeur him around town. Like the ability to spend his money on booze while getting free food and lodging (take it he’s an adult…).

I know its tough but parenting seldom is easy.

Do you have to be licensed in your state to purchase/possess a firearm or ammunition? If so, does he have the appropriate permitting? If he doesn't, you can take action with law enforcement. Perhaps they would agree not to press charges if your son sold the firearm back to a dealer. If your state doesn't require licensing, this wouldn't work.

Although HIPPA requires that your son must give his permission to have his health care issues shared with anyone, there is nothing preventing you from calling his provider and explaining your concerns. I would start there.

Cat

PS: Go purchase a trigger lock for that gun immediately. It's not enough to hide it. They're not expensive. Some police departments give them out.

I too would recommend reporting the mental instability, drinking and threats made to you and your youngest son. Also would report the history of trying to stab his older brother.

Since you have the grandbabies around, your son is spiraling and choosing a gun over your safety and his... I recommend you kick him out. He has no business living in your home with your sick husband and you being his main caregiver. He has no business bringing an unsecured firearm around your grandbaby. He has no business threatening you with his gun.

I'm with annb and TheEnd- this needs to be taken seriously.

Honestly, I would kick him out. I'm afraid that not doing so would be enabling him. A psych hold looks like a good idea. Change the locks when he's gone. Have his items in the garage for him to pick up. I would notify the police of his instability and ask for wellness checks after he's out. I'm afraid he needs to be cut loose.

As for the car troubles, it does sound like he's been irresponsible. However... that's not your responsibility. I think you've really done all that you can for your son. He's an adult now and making horrible choices. It's got to be so painful to watch him choose anger, violence and irresponsibility. All you can do now is decide what you will choose for yourself. Do you choose to live in constant danger from your own son in his degraded mental state? Do you choose to have your husband risk witnessing your son act out violently to his wife and mother of his child? Do you choose to have your visiting privileges of your granddaughter taken away because of the instability of your son? If I were her mother... I would not allow her to come over, if I knew my daughter's uncle was in a volatile and violent state.

There are no good choices here, but there are choices.

You're right to take this seriously- if you don't, there's a high chance you will wind up another domestic violence statistic.

Does your state have red flag laws if so then you need to take action and tell the police that you are concerned about his safety.
They will take possession of the gun until he can prove he is in a better place mentally.

I am a gun owner, and have my concealed carry, so I am not one to panic when I see a gun. However if you don't know what you have you really should educate yourself on what they are, and how they operate. The most accidents w/ firearms happen in homes where the people who don't own them mess with them. NEVER EVER put your finger on the trigger, and NEVER EVER point it in a direction that has anyone/anything in your line of site that you do not intend to shoot.

That being said I do NOT think police would do anything to you for having his gun, especially when you explain that you are concerned for his safety. The option is to take the gun to the police and tell them you took it because you were concerned for his safety and let them deal with him.

Thank you.

I’ll try to answer questions.

My state has VERY lenient gun laws. No red flag laws. You can carry most weapons open or concealed. Not sure about registration. No law regarding keeping it locked up / secured. WTF?

He bought the gun 3rd party - from a coworker. So, no forms to fill out for background searches. No need to disclose mental issues. Perfectly legal here.

I do not want any guns on my property. But my oldest wanted a handgun (years ago). I had a calm discussion with him about it. I told him what I would need to feel ok about it. Etc. He has complied with all my concerns. He has some kind of case that requires his hand print to open it. He is very safe. I had probably a dozen kids looking for eggs in my front yard / house on Sunday. Knowing this, my oldest son took the case / gun to a friend’s house so it wouldn’t even be on the property. Never have I feared his gun ownership.

I don’t feel the same with the son who I have fears about. But he is 28 years old, has purchased the gun legally, (my oldest has seen the evidence). My oldest son has told me that if I’m concerned about the gun itself, that he would call the police to run the serial number to be sure it is "clean". He says he has never bought a gun without doing that. Just to be sure there is no criminal history that he wasn’t told about. He says the police thank him for getting it checked. I suppose I could do that. At least that would protect the other son from having bought a gun "with a past".

But that’s not my worst fear.

The threat against family was over 10 years ago. There has never been any violence from him that I have personally seen. My oldest still says he is concerned.

My ex-cop family member said that the police would want my son not to have the gun, but would be limited in what they could do without proof of concerns. The past threat could be considered a drunken, empty threat. And could possibly be just that. And the latest time he was inpatient involved no violence at all. In fact, my son has always called the police himself, to let them know he is having suicidal ideology.

Bigger…what you said is where I’m at. My worst fears.

Actually, if my son gets the gun checked out with the police, I’m not worried about the stolen gun thing. He would show documentation of the purchase, my oldest would see that it is checked out through serial number. And he would willingly hand it over. Probably no huge consequence.

And I’m weirdly not actually concerned about being arrested. I could use the rest. (Sorry, I felt the need for temporary levity).

But God knows I cannot fathom losing my child to suicide, an can’t even imagine if he hurt others.

I cannot do nothing, while the fear of that possibility exists.

I totally get y’all’s feelings that I should kick him out. But that just serves to reduce the tension in our home. He has no money, no vehicle, and nowhere to go. That would exacerbate the risk of suicide AND of him doing others harm - if that would happen. And living at home OR under a bridge does not prevent him getting another gun. I feel that I can better monitor him at home.

I think I will have my oldest son get the gun checked out through the police department. Then let the other son know that at this time I cannot have him own a gun on my property. If it is a deal breaker for him, he can decide to leave.

Last night after a brief, heated discussion, my son‘s last words to me were, "You can either give me back the gun and we can "discuss" my getting rid of it, or you can give me $700. If not, I’m calling the cops.". Minus the red flags here, that doesn’t sound unreasonable.

I think I’m going to wait a day or two to see if he calms down a bit. I’m going to tell him my concerns. I’m going to hope he will agree to my oldest son trying to sell it, after he gets it checked.

My family member is checking with a captain in our police dept. today to see what could / would actually happen. For example, I’m not sure whether or not a brief voluntary inpatient stay at a psych unit would disqualify his qualifying for gun ownership. Again, our state is SUPER pro gun ownership, and all that entails.

Thanks for your input.

And for listening to yet another mess in my life.

I'm with WhatsRight on this, kicking him out is not likely to change the equation here and may only hasten this to its end point.

If I was in this situation, and I live in the South, I wouldn't hand the gun to my son unless forced to. I can't imagine a DA even attempting to charge this as burglary, nor a judge keeping you in jail for it. Has anyone asked him why all of the sudden he wants a firearm? What else is going on in his life? I don't think you are overacting at all, given the history of your son and the current relationship he has with alcohol.

Regarding why he wants a gun at this point, he has told my oldest son that it is for target practice. That sounds lame, but he has always been an amazing shot and has always really loved target practice like in Boy Scouts. Eagle Scout by the way.

I in no way believe he would intentionally plan to hurt anyone. But he has unclear thinking from time to time (obviously) and I worry he would just snap.

Im not sure what all may be going on in his life right now - he doesn’t share. But having to try to calm him down in order to get him to think more clearly is business as usual. This time is very different…there has never been a weapon to deal with. I lean toward this being a case of me worrying too much. But I simply cannot take the chance.

My oldest has agreed to have the gun serial number checked out by the police, and if it comes back "clean", he would be willing to sell it and get as much as he could to reimburse my other son. From that point, of course, he could choose to get another gun at any time. And I’m sure he would do a better job of hiding it. But I believe I could rely on my oldest to keep an eye out.

And he will know that the next gun will mean he has chosen to leave our home and move elsewhere.

But in that case, in trying to be proactive…who do I call? Who do I tell that I’m concerned it is possible his mental health may be a cause for…what?

How troubling.

Do NOT under any circumstances, give the gun back to him. I would take it to the police dept. and ask to speak to a detective and explain everything. Tell them it's your home but your son lives there and has severe mental issues. IF they give the gun back to him and he shoots people - or kills himself, then the police did not do their job.

Just be firm with your son and say ... 'this is a gun-free home and if you want to possess a gun, then you have to get your own place to live." Be firm.

I'm sure some family members who are now dealing with their family members shooting people - would love to have a do-over and take the guns away from those who committed the killings.

[This message edited by Jeaniegirl at 1:13 AM, Wednesday, April 12th]

One thing that was totally wired last night…

He started the confrontational conversation as soon as he got in the car. Since I wouldn’t get riled up with him, he finally got quiet about 20 minutes later. I was quiet so we could get home without further incident.

Then, and I’m not making this up, after about 3 minutes of quiet, following his voice being raised for 20 minutes, he said, "I missed a call from (youngest brother) today by 42 seconds". He said this with a calm, conversational tone- as if there had been no harsh words. Almost like a switch had been flipped.

I’m just soooo confused.

I don’t know if he just got it out of his system…

Or if he realized he was an ass and was trying to pretend nothing was wrong…hoping I would jump right in and be like nothing was wrong???

Or if that just seemed normal to him, to be irate one minute and agreeable conversation the next?

This is just how his mood can jump around.

Then this morning, back to anger.

Jeaniegirl…

I agree with you about everything except that I cannot tell him "this is a gun free home" when he knows my oldest has a gun.

I am usually a freak for being "fair". But like I read one time, "fair doesn’t mean everybody gets the same thing, it means everybody gets what they need".

My oldest has proved himself responsible, but this son certainly has not. He knows he is drinking, he knows he is not taking his meds, and could possibly know he is unfit to have a weapon. But being a victim is sort of his thing, and so he is loving throwing his brothers permission to have a gun in my face.

But I am most certainly NOT going to give him the gun.

To avoid having to refuse to comply with police, I’m probably going to either have my oldest son sell it and give the money to his brother, or I will just turn it in to the police and voice my concerns. If they give it back to him, or if he decides to buy another one, I will just make it clear that a condition of him staying here is that he will not have a gun.

If he balks about me not allowing it if the police give it to him, I will just have to explain that being able to blame the police for whatever injuries / deaths could happen - accidentally or otherwise - would be of ZERO solace to grieving family.

Hi WhatsRight, so sorry you have this added to your plate on top of everything else going on in your life.

I think you should take the gun to the police and have it checked out and then if it's clean, ask them what you should do given the situation with your son being not fit to be responsible for it.

I'm worried though. You say

I totally get y’all’s feelings that I should kick him out. But that just serves to reduce the tension in our home. He has no money, no vehicle, and nowhere to go. That would exacerbate the risk of suicide AND of him doing others harm - if that would happen. And living at home OR under a bridge does not prevent him getting another gun. I feel that I can better monitor him at home.

And then say,

If they give it back to him, or if he decides to buy another one, I will just make it clear that a condition of him staying here is that he will not have a gun.

That doesn't add up. So you won't kick him out, but if the police give him his gun back, or if he buys a new one, then you will tell him he isn't allowed to be there with a gun??

I'm mostly worried about this because way back when before you sold your house and moved... you said the new place was going to be for you and H only. Your sons have to find new places to live. Yet, that didn't happen. I fear something very wrong may happen with the gun and you'll forever regret letting your son stay with you.

Can your son go back to rehab? Maybe I missed it, is he in therapy?

I guess the difference in my mind is that he got the gun without my knowledge so I took it.

I have chosen that the best way to handle this / him is to let him know he cannot have a gun while living here. That way, because I have the gun now, I’m not having to "kick him out".

After the gun is gone, I will make sure he understands that if he chooses to get another one, it will be HIS choice to leave.

I guess it might seem to be a distinction without a difference, but once the gun is gone, he will know the terms, that getting another gun will be him making the decision to leave.

I guess this time he thought because his older brother has one, he should get to have one, too. That’s why I won’t kick him out right now. If he gets another one, that will be him choosing.

Don’t get me wrong. I do not have every confidence that I am handling this exactly right. But at this point it’s all I know to do. Even though it is difficult on my husband and I for him to be here when he is having issues like this, if we could come up with a situation where he will be here and could be happy here, and rules could be followed, then I believe it would be best for him to be here. One of the last times he called the police to tell him that he was considering suicide, was when he moved out into an apartment that he was living in alone. He was binge drinking and I think drugs, and he doesn’t do "alone" well.

Growing up, all of my boys "ran away from home" at one point or another. But they have all returned at one point or another. I have kicked out my youngest son at one time, and it was truly horrible. But he was stealing and using lots of drugs. If my son who is having issues at this time insists on having a gun, then I know that I will kick him out. But absent a real serious situation like that, if I have a home, my kids have a home.

I think the gun is a serious issue (don't give it back) but it is just one of many here.

Gently, and similar to someone else in the thread, you are enabling him and need to step back. As of right now he has absolutely no incentive to do better.

He is an adult, obviously with serious mental health problems, but driving him to work, accepting what sounds like verbal abuse from him, etc. shouldn't be acceptable.

I get you want to protect your kids and there is always a place for him in your home, but he is an adult who has a gun (or did) that by your own words hates you. And has threatened to kill you whether it was a decade ago or not. AND even more concerning, threatened to harm himself.

I have two boys myself and understand how you feel, but you need to step back. You are hurting yourself, family, and actually him by enabling his very disturbing behaviour. I feel for you and hope you can find an equilibrium and peace in an awful situation.

Do not give him the gun, or if you do, tell him he cannot live in your house if he has it. Period.

[This message edited by NorthernMSB at 2:13 PM, Thursday, April 13th]

Do not give him the gun, or if you do, tell him he cannot live in your house if he has it. Period.

Absolutely is the plan.

As far as the "enabling" concern goes, I get it. I knew it would be a consideration in responses to my original post. And I appreciate the comments / concern.

My feelings are this…his mental issues are from his birth situation - physically, from birth mother’s substance abuse while pregnant. They are no more his choice than any other issue such as mental retardation, etc. 80% of the time he is a caring, cooperative person. He was always the one to help my elderly (blind) father when my parents came to visit. At age 8ish and up. He has a fabulous, quirky sense of humor. And then there are the struggles. When not drinking, and taking his meds, he is happy and a connected family member.

I am happy to continue to try to assist him with a place to stay, etc., while trying to help him get/keep on the right track. Becoming more and more independent will be something he can accomplish on his own after I’m gone. Until that time, I’m going to try to help where I can with him getting the tools / help he needs.

But I absolutely draw the line with the weapon.

On another note, yesterday, on his off day, he went to his workplace and they have allowed him to use one of their company vehicles. It was parked in the driveway yesterday. And this morning he drove it to work.

I’m guessing this happened as a result of a conversation he had with my H. My son asked H what he thought about this whole "situation". H asked him what in the world he was doing spending $700 on a gun when he didn’t even have a vehicle. Son said he was just so happy to get a nice tax return and had a bit of a spending spree. H said that he didn’t seem to mind having me take him to and from work for months now.

I’m guessing that he doesn’t like me much contributed to it as well.

On a side note, I was absolutely AMAZED that my H jumped into the situation and gave son input. And that it sounded suspiciously supportive of me! 😳

ETA: I wanted to also add that (IMHO) the word “enable” has a positive connotation as well as a negative one. If I didn’t expect him to work, paid all his expenses, excused any unacceptable behavior, etc., that is not helping him.

But giving him a supportive environment in which to live while he works on figuring his stuff out can “enable” him to move forward. Which is a very positive connotation- again, IMHO.

I do appreciate ALL points of view, and especially the care that comes with them.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 3:18 PM, Thursday, April 13th]

WhatsRight,

All I can say is there’s a special place in heaven for people like you who adopt children who were harmed before birth by substance abuse. I honestly can’t imagine having to deal with the difficulties you’ve had in raising your children.

Give yourself credit. I do.

Sending blessings and hugs.

Whatsright, checking on you. I hope there has been some improvement with your situation.

Well, it has been crazy around here…lots of home health people in and out of the house, regarding my H, etc. so I have not yet heard back about the serial number of the gun.

But I did get my oldest to check to see if the gun is loaded, and thankfully it is not.

I will probably hear about the serial number tomorrow, and then it will be time to have a discussion with the son involved. I will give him definitive notification that he cannot have guns on the property. And ask if he would like for my oldest to try to sell it and give him the money. (Oldest says it will probably not be the full price - as he feels his brother paid too much for it.)

If he agrees to this and to not replacing it while he lives here, I will feel I have done what I can to diffuse the situation.

I will also let him know that in the absence of a good relationship, there would have to be civility around the house. (Which there has been for the past week or so.). Not much conversation, but civil when we need to speak.

That’s about all I know to do to date.

I guess if he starts "acting out again, of course, I’ll have to regroup.

NOT considering EVER allowing him to have a firearm on our property.