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I would really like to know if I'm overthinking this.

My WH and I had a conversation today (we've had similar in the past, pre-A I didn't really care but post-A I do). It was about him looking at other women. He said that he did, that he looked at every woman that passed his vision. He noted which ones were attractive and which ones weren't. Pre-A during one of these conversations he said that most men (including him) looked at women and would check YES or NO (would have sex with or not). And that it was just automatic. Today he said that he did NOT think about having sex with them but only noted the ones that stood out to him as attractive.

He also said that he didn't feel guilty about it and didn't think he should. I want to make clear, it was a rational discussion, he wasn't angry or upset, I didn't feel like he was "defending" himself vehemently. It was more like this is the way it is, period. I do feel upset about it but what can I rationally expect in this situation? IS IT AUTOMATIC and he can't stop it. Or is it something he can work on?

Am I overreacting to be upset that my husband looks at every single woman in that way? He asked me if I didn't look at other men and think of them as attractive. I said no, I can only think of two instances in which I saw another man and thought "WOW". And I remember both vividly. Other than that, I don't look at men that way, and I certainly don't check out every single man within my view. Of course I did before getting married, afterwards, I just didn't. Not to say I don't look at celebrates that way, but definitely not the average guy around town.

Like I said, pre-A I didn't mind, because I was OK with him looking because he wasn't supposed to "touch". But now I know that he can cross that line and I no longer am OK with him "looking".

So, what do you guys think? And what are my options here?

Fournlau, even as a married woman, I would look at men.

I followed the three second rule.

So, I would only look at the hot guy for three seconds and that's it.

In three seconds, I dont have enough time to undress the hot guy with my eyes and be madly making out with him.

So, my advice is just let your WS look for three seconds only.

Honestly, if he's going to continue to do it, I'd rather not know about it.

I'm now looking at every woman and wondering if he thinks she's attractive, or has nice boobs (he's a boob guy).

So, is this something that I just have to get over? Or try not to think about?

[This message edited by fournlau at 11:28 PM, Saturday, March 11th]

I basically automatically check out every woman and give a yes/no thought.

If my wife or I see a particularly attractive person we say a code word for it.

Did this before the A, never stopped after.

It’s disrespectful if he does it in front of you.

Period.

My H does not do that. But he did during his affair very obviously.

When I told him I was D him on dday2 I made sure he knew how distasteful and rude he was by staring at other women. He never did it before his affair but he felt rather emboldened by his A and did things of never seen him do.

So, what do you guys think?

I think you're a victim of society that tells you there's something wrong with you (=you're insecure, jealous, possesive, controlling, unreasonable, not cool, abnormal, etc.) if stuff like that bothers you. Just re-read your post - you're trying to justify yourself to us. Why? It bothers YOU, and that's all that matters.

He has no basis to claim most men check YES/NO, and even if they do, that's not a reason why you should be fine with it. Guess what - all men fart, and while that's perfectly normal, the smell can still bother you. And that's perfectly fine. He should at least respect that, and not fart in front of you.

One option here is to decide whether that's something you can compromise on. If not, either he changes that behavior or you cut your losses. If yes, think about how would that compromise look like? You can also do nothing and continue to be sad about it. You have the power to decide what matters to you, just don't let anyone tell you you're not normal. Don't let anyone tell you what should or shouldn't bother you.

I took the tact of pointing out to my WH that twenty year old girls don’t like to be stared at by 50 plus year old men. When you get to a certain age, you’re creeping on these girls.

I made it about that, not about my feelings.

I think that noticing people who are particularly attractive is normal and healthy, but sizing up every woman he encounters as fuckable or not is disordered thinking. The fact that he does this provides insight into his values— women are potential sex objects first, human beings second.

As for what to do about it, you can’t control what he does… let alone what or how he thinks. You can only decide whether his values align with yours and whether you can live with him, knowing how his brain works.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 1:10 PM, Sunday, March 12th]

I do want to be clear, my WH is not ogling women, or staring at them in an obvious way. From his explanation it's more of a "scanning" the area and "noting" any woman that might be "his type" (though he couldn't tell me exactly what "his type" was except for having nice boobs).

This is a very ME thing because while I think that I am a good woman/wife/mother, I am also aware that I am not societies idea of attractive. I don't think I'm ugly or anything, just not conventionally attractive. I think I have beautiful eyes, nice lips, and a beautiful smile. But beautiful? No. And my WH has never really made me feel beautiful (except for in the very beginning of our relationship, after gaining weight, the focus was on that). He doesn't tell me I'm beautiful now either, simply tells me I shouldn't talk about myself like that and that I have "other" qualities. I know that. I know that I'm too good for him. I have a big heart, I love unconditionally, I am a giver, I am fierce in my loyalty, I enjoy making other people happy (I could go on but you get the picture). And frankly, if he did tell me I was beautiful I wouldn't believe him anyway.

I think this is something I'll have to work out in IC because how could I ever believe that he changed his way of thinking on something like this? And I don't want him to lie to me, he already said he wished he had just said no when I asked him the question (it was his fault for bringing this up using the "all men" do this when talking about work).

I think that noticing people who are particularly attractive is normal and healthy, but sizing up every woman he encounters as fuckable or not is disordered thinking. The fact that he does this provides insight into his values— women are potential sex objects first, human beings second.

I think this is the crux of it. How he sees women as objects and only worthy if they check the "yes" box (I may be reading into it here). He talks as if this is normal behavior and all men do it. Which makes me wonder, since I probably would not check the yes box in my current state if he wasn't married to me, why is he still here? He is an attractive man, though he's gained a belly after retiring from the military. He said he doesn't feel attractive (because of the weight gain), but this is what he looked like when he had the A, soooo...

Hannah47

He has no basis to claim most men check YES/NO, and even if they do, that's not a reason why you should be fine with it. Guess what - all men fart, and while that's perfectly normal, the smell can still bother you. And that's perfectly fine. He should at least respect that, and not fart in front of you.

This made me smile, so very apt. And thank you for saying that nobody can tell me how I should or shouldn't feel. I do still struggle with that and "suffering in silence" because of how I was treated throughout the M when I brought things up to talk about. Things are better now, but I feel like he would still lie/minimize/omit things just so that he doesn't have to deal with my reaction. He'll say it's because he doesn't want to hurt me or see me upset, but I have the feeling it's more about his comfort level and not wanting to deal with the fallout. I'm sure that's how he feels now, wishing he hadn't said anything at all. But here we are and my feelings are valid.

Honestly, I think that might be what I need from him, just to validate my feelings and not defend his thoughts. Both can be true at the same time. IDK, my mind is all over the place about this.

I'd love to hear from men. Is this "normal"? Do you look at all women like this? Is it automatic and you just file it away? Or are you aware of it?

This is such a teenager mentality. Usually, teenagers or adults in 20s behave or think like this. Not all teenagers or 20s adults, though. But, soon you will realize women objectification is such a fucked up thing, especially when you have females you care for in your own family. May be a sister, mother, or daughter or wife. No man likes their family women to be objectified or rated as a fuckable thing or not. One must feel guilty for taking part in it and being responsible for cultivating such a repulsive culture. Because this culture, we created for our own pleasure will ultimately end up hurting and traumatizing our own mothers, sisters, daughters and wives. This realization doesn't come without men growing up and without having empathy for women. Seems like your husband never grew up. He doesn't seem to realize how this way of thinking is not normal and his own family could be the target of such mentality and ratings. He really doesn't behave like a man of his age and experience. Worst is, he intentionally or unintentionally surrounded by like minded people who validates and normalizes his way of thinking. Just because your friends say so doesn't mean the whole world's says the same thing.

I'm ADD so I'm easily distracted, like by movement within my field of vision. I notice the people I see, and I notice attractive women and even women who have attractive features I can see. I consciously stop all thoughts about sex with anyone but my W. As long as my eyes work, I think I'll look. I will not beat myself up for looking and seeing.

My W was OK with my looking until, in her mid-50s, she met our attractive XDIL2b. At that point, well before her A, she didn't believe me when I said I thought she (W) looked as good as XDIL2b when she was XDIL2b's age. She was satisfied when I came up with 'Your face shows a lot more character now than it did 30 years ago.' Nowadays, if I say, 'You looked as good as she did at the same age', I think she believes me. She may disagree, but she believes me, or at least she understands the benefits of my deluding myself.

If your H is telling the truth now, how do you feel about it? What do you want him to do when he notices an attractive woman? If you want him not to notice ... if my W asked me not to notice, I'd have to reject the request.

If your H said he still asked himself if he'd fuck the women he sees, I'd think there might be a problem. Looking and enjoying the scenery is probably very common.

It's as automatic as seeing a beautiful sunset, a great work of art, a bitchen car, or anything else that catches the eye. Attractive women are, well... attractive. I'm one of those fools whose IQ will drop rapidly around the right women.

That being said, I don't think it would kill your hubby to be mindful that checking out every attractive woman he sees bothers you. In a "normal" relationship, it's just common curtesy. Post-infidelity, I think your he might want to admit to himself that he does, in fact, have free will, and that he can, if he so chooses, exercise a little self-control.

When I was younger, I never had a boyfriend not look at/notice an attractive woman, and it always annoyed the heck out of me. That reflected a certain insecurity on my part, and also because I never really trusted any man. Sorry, but true.

Then there was a time when I could rely on the adage; "They can look, but as long as they don't touch." Well, for most of us this is out the window, so it's definitely a bigger thing.

That said, "noticing" or "looking" at an attractive woman is one thing; but I think I'd have a problem with someone who says he is "scanning," because that suggests to me a higher level of pre-occupation. But perhaps it is just semantics.

I notice attractive men and women, but do not ogle them. It's a glance and a random thought that tells me that the person I have noticed moving around is attractive. My husband does this as well. As long as there is not ogling going on, I am fine with it. Human beings are sexual creatures. I think it would be an impossibility to NOT notice. The dealbreaker is the ogling part for me.

I appreciate everyone's feedback.

It's becoming clear that this is definitely a ME issue in this instance. Obviously I know WH can't live through life with blinders on, and it would be ridiculous to expect that he NEVER notice attractive women. As many of you said, as long as it isn't ogling or creepy, which I agree is disrespectful to me, I should probably let it be.

I think much of this is because I don't think I am attractive in that same way. As in, if we were not M'd, his gaze would pass right over me and he would not think I was attractive. He doesn't make me feel attractive at all. He isn't cruel or anything. And he does very much still try to be intimate. He likes touch and has said it is a need for him with me. Still...

I am more along the line of a previous poster in that I scan my surroundings, always have before and after marriage. I will notice attractive women and try not to make my double-take noticable. I never approached it as a sex yes or no but more like a "she can have her pick of any man she wants" thought. I would never make this scanning obvious to my wife or the attractive women (if she looked at me I would quickly look away), and I never told my wife I did this. As one poster said, it's like noticing a nice car or truck (something else I do). Interestingly, my WW claimed she NEVER looked at other men, including celebrities, yet she is the one who cheated.

Looking is fine. Even when a handsome guy comes in front of me, I would look at him too. I would think, "Damn! That guy is hot". Not in a sexual way, though. It's not easy to not look at beautiful people. Few glances of curiosity and admiration of beauty is not bad. Looking is just looking. But staring, ogling even when it makes wife and person of interest uncomfortable is not looking. It's a statement. Statement that I am willing to make you feel uneasy and uncomfortable for a few seconds of my pleasure/wherever that is supposed to be.