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So I was resolute with a nice shiny spine up until this morning. I woke up with this awful pain in my stomach which I know is because of this and my heart is trying to convince my brain that I’m making a mistake with the separation (I’m not leaving the house) and 180. I know I’m not but damn is it frustrating that my heart and my head are at war with each other right now.

I guess I’m just seeking reassurance and more advice on how to handle this conversation with my wife. It is quite literally the hardest, most painful and difficult thing I’ve ever had to do in my life. I still don’t understand how we got to this point. I realize I will never understand what made her decide multiple affairs along with the flirting and borderline shit with other guys was okay for her to do while she was married. Her excuse of saying she felt unloved and our marriage was in a bad place is just super weak when she never tried to fix anything with me. I can’t continue to be a doormat while she does whatever she wants.

I’m not asking for a script or anything. I don’t even know if it’s about how to address it. I think I’m just getting in my own way cause I’m scared about the future. I want what’s best for me and my children and this version of my wife isn’t it but I don’t know if any version is. And she is confusing the fuck lot of me with her behavior. She has been all over me since the day she unblocked her AP outside of having sex with me. She’s always affectionate but it’s like more than usual. I just don’t get it except she’s been drinking every day and thinks I don’t know she has.

I guess this is half venting, half seeking advice and support thread.

She's an alcoholic serial cheater, who has no empathy or remorse. She blames you. She's giving you nothing to work with. She's shown you,over and over, that she isn't reconciliation material.

Her being all over you is a common WW manipulation tactic.

You can look at it like this..as long as you continue the way you are..she will keep feeding her constant need for external validation from these OM,and she will continue to drink. By staying with her, in a way, you are enabling her. She needs a hard dose of consequences. You've tried everything else, so separation is really all that's left.

Nothing changes if you don't change things.

It's time you respected yourself, and ended her cycle of abuse.

You’ve given me a lot of advice, Hellfire, and I really appreciate it. I don’t want you to think I’m ignoring what you said it’s all just so overwhelming. I’m also realizing I have some major co-dependency and fear avoidant traits that are messing with my decision making. A huge reason I need to get myself in IC ASAP.

The hardest struggle is that I’m quite literally trying to murder the last bit of hope I’m holding onto. It keeps popping back up like one of those trick candles that just won’t go out. Like I want to look at her with hate and disgust but it almost always turns into sadness and like a longing for what was and never will be again. And I keep asking myself "If I stay, It’s literally been three times in two month. Why would you think it won’t happen again in six months if she thinks you’re letting your guard down again? How could I ever respect myself or feel like I’m protecting my children if I stay and it happens again?".

This really sucks.

It’s going to take you a while for your heart to catch up with your brain. A formal separation doesn’t necessarily stop you from feeling married.

You know that you’re doing the right thing by walking away. There is nothing that you can make your wife sober, honest, and accountable for her actions. I’m not even convinced that her losing everything will make her realize her own mistakes because she’s so invested in blaming anyone else but herself for her piss-poor choices.

Second-guessing yourself isn’t a sign that you’re making a mistake; it just means that you’re beginning the process of grief, which will ultimately end in recovery.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:51 PM, Sunday, February 12th]

Whenever you are scared to be resolute, imagine that nothing changes with her and you continue to live like this and feel like this.

So, you are taking on short-term discomfort in order to gain long-term clarity and healing.

Power to you!

Her excuse of saying she felt unloved and our marriage was in a bad place is just super weak when she never tried to fix anything with me. I can’t continue to be a doormat while she does whatever she wants.

This is a rationalization she uses to try and make herself feel better. But look at it. What she's saying is that her choices are contingent on YOUR behavior. IOW, she's not responsible. You are. It doesn't even make sense when you examine it closely. It's not adult behavior. It's something you would expect from a child. And yet, we hear it from WS's all the time as if it's supposed to be some kind of compelling argument.

What it all boils down to really is whether or not this person, as she is today, is an acceptable mate for you. That's not to say that people can't change. I do believe they can. It's just an acknowledgment that you can't change anyone else but yourself. If she wants to save her marriage and family dynamic, she has to change. Your job is simply to make sure you don't accept less than what you can really live with. Everything else is emotion and sentiment. That's normal, but it can get in your way when you're trying to gain clarity for the future.

There's no magic wand you can wave over your marriage and fix it. It takes two and it's really difficult, painful work. The first part of that work, IMHO, is standing your ground. Remember that what you're feeling is absolutely NORMAL.

There's a book called, The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson which might help bolster you. It's geared toward those who have already split up, but even though I'm in R, I really feel like it was one of the most important things I've read. In it, the author does a pretty good job of explaining why the brain and body react the way they do, but most importantly, she reminds us that we are literally born fearing abandonment. Somehow, we manage to carry this fear forward in life and into our primary relationship. But the truth is that we are NOT dependent on our mate for our very survival. Those feeling aren't facts; they're just leftovers. Infidelity, at its core, is an abandonment wound, and it has a way of breaking open every old scar and compounding the pain. Understanding the nature of the injury can be a big step toward healing it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:20 PM, Sunday, February 12th]

I invested a lot of work during my R phase. I did IC, read, journaled, spoke to people, scoured websites and podcasts, all in an effort to get that one elusive piece of information which would make everything finally make sense. I think I may have read almost every post on this site in my early days.

My head and heart were not aligned and that was because I loved my W deeply and loathed my WW. It took me a long time to detach enough to realize that I loved the woman I wanted her to be, not the woman she was. When I saw her finally, the real version of her without the shiny bits and pieces I added, she just wasn't attractive to me anymore. When I finally ended it, my friends admitted that they knew D would be the eventual outcome of the struggle. But I had to process everything before I could admit that to myself. Even my STBXWW told me that she suspect as much. Maybe that's one reason she didn't try very hard to fix what she broke.

Your head and heart will align eventually, but first you need to remove that source of pain from your environment. Be prepared for a bumpy ride as healing is very non-linear. Hell,I'm 5 years out from my last D-day and 3.5 S/D and I still have rough nights. Just last night I had to sit in my sadness for a bit and be lonely. I knew it was just a transitional emotion and share as shit, I woke up fine this morning.

Be resolute my friend.

I felt all of what you're describing too. We had tried R for 9ish months before I told him we needed to separate for a while. Even tho I absolutely KNEW it was the right choice for me, it was still gut-wrenching. I still felt so sad.

And that sadness is NORMAL. You're grieving the loss of your marriage, of the life you planned on, of your hopes for that life. Those are huge losses and even if separation is the right call it doesn't make grieving those losses any easier. It's okay to feel how you feel.

The very first night we separated I got my second day when I got some additional info confirmed, so that knocked me for a loop. But the other thing that happened when we separated is I felt like I could breathe. I felt that head-heart battle calm down a lot. It gave me some much needed space to really think about what I wanted and needed in a way that just wasn't possible with him around. I hope yours does the same for you.

What I wish I had done was to think less black and white in terms of I could divorce and protect myself financially physically and spiritually AND also be open to reconciliation (not a one way decision) IF wh did the hard work to become a safe partner.
I chose divorce with no third chance (2 plus strikes and at least 2 women at 2 different time points in the marriage).

Even if he became safe again, I would have expected sn iron clad prenup and clear marital agreement and protections for me.
As for people who thought these sort of actions would be petty and what he did was a mistake.... Well that's their opinion. Mine is that he risked my life, exposed me to STDs and emotional damage, and colluded to take my property, and was a generally nasty partner. That's not a mistake. And I have a right to take appropriate steps to protect myself.

Again this is just my experience. Other people's mileage may vary.

Since your wife’s behaviors and addictions are entrenched you are looking at a life just like this. Do you really want to live this way for 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years, or more. There’s just so much more to life than that. Human beings are meant to find joy and I don’t think you have any in your life. My suggestion is to go find it

We got delayed yesterday due to one of my children getting super sick again but that actually led to more revelations. Got her phone last night after she got trashed again and went into a practical coma. Scoured everything. Found the new name she has the AP from DDay 1 under. I also found a deleted text thread from yet another guy she’s been sexting with where she basically told him he should move to Snapchat cause it’s easier to send him stuff and more of it on Snapchat. It’s like she’s a cam model without the income for fucks sake. I also found her crossing more boundaries with yet another guy, one she knows I hate.

I did a tally this morning and we are up to 12 total with one guy having 4 separate instances. 3 I’m positive she’s had sex with, 1 that is a maybe and 8 EAs. So now I’ve gone totally over to just filing and ending it after seeing a couple different divorce lawyers. Not only is she an unsafe and untrustworthy partner she is endangering my children. Never mind just the drinking, I can only imagine the parade of guys that would come through the house if I wasn’t there.

Thank you again to everyone for your advice. The main thing I am focusing on after this is me and my children and getting a good lawyer who will get me the house and primary custody of my children.

I'm so sorry to read your story, your wife's behavior is horrifying and I was particularly thinking about this:

Not only is she an unsafe and untrustworthy partner she is endangering my children.

My WH also had multiple (>40) sex partners and has a lot of addict behavior that makes me scared for our child's quality of life with him. Not because I want to get back at WH for cheating, not because I want to punish him through denying him parenting time, but because someone has to think of what is healthy and safe for our children when our cheating spouse is exhibiting manic or dangerous behavior.

PLEASE see an attorney first. Have them help you write out a separation agreement. I know from doing this myself that you can include things in the separation agreement about the other parent agreeing to mental health (or in your case alcohol addiction rehab) treatment. Please have your wife's family get her into some kind of mental health/rehab treatment so your children have a fighting chance at having a stable second parent. Have her family do 100% of that work if that's what it takes. Ask an attorney to help you write up an agreement that will document that you believe she needs medical help. Even if there's nothing legally enforceable in it, in a future divorce this shows that you are putting your children's safety first - because that's what you would be doing. It's something outside of the affair itself that is nevertheless so important for any chance your children have of having a second safe-ish parent.

About the affair part, I completely feel your pain. I arranged a separation agreement with my attorney before I presented it to my WH and that worked out really well. I suggest you see an attorney first so you know if your state has official separation and what that entails. Try to catch your wife sober, if there is a time of day she is sober, and present her with separation papers in a calm manner. It will show that you are serious enough to have gone to an attorney, you have the weight of a legal ally with official documents on your side, and it keeps her from trying to manipulate you with sex and excuses. You can tell her it's "only" separation right now, and if she does the following things, you can both reevaluate in six months (or some amount of time) - and then make your list that includes rehab or a 12 step group plus IC for her. You don't have to mean it! You can fully intend on divorcing, if that's where your head is, but using the shock of separation as a way to get her into some kind of counseling might really be your best lever right now.

Do you guys have any way she can stay with her family right now and not in the house with you? I can tell you from my own current experience that having some physical separation from them is a way to clear you mind without their constant manipulation, lies, excuses, promises, attempts to have sex, that kind of thing.

Hi Sigyn,

I unfortunately live in a state which doesn’t have legal separation. I can file for separate support but it would be pointless as she’s been a SAHM since our oldest was born and I wouldn’t get anything as she has no income. I do however think I will see what I can do about getting her out of the house.

Logistically it’s going to take some work but fortunately my MIL and SIL have offered to help me as needed. They’ve had it with my wife’s bullshit as well. The hardest thing is neither one of my children has been in day care so it would be a massive culture shock for them. Unfortunately I can’t stay home with them so hopefully I can find decent child care as I do not feel safe leaving them with my wife.

[This message edited by Kevinm12 at 1:16 PM, Monday, February 13th]

I stayed nine years longer after the first confirmed A. You know the drill, I wanted to believe him, etc.

What helped me was realizing that was the example I was setting for my children for a M and for a spouse. Who would want this to be what your children look for in a partner? I decided I would much rather show them it was healthier to walk away for the toxins. I decided a single household was much better.

but that actually led to more revelations

I also had doubts if I was doing the right thing along my new path. But there was signs all along that way to confirm that I need to just keep going that way. What you received above, is a sign for you as well.

I am a long ways out from my D (13 yrs) and my only regret was waiting those nine years for him to change. It would get better for a bit, then rinse/repeat.

I unfortunately live in a state which doesn’t have legal separation.

So my state doesn't have legal separation either, but we can still write up legal documents for married couples temporarily living separately, since even casual separation involves custody (which house will the kids stay at) and finances (how will finances be arranged if you're temporarily living separately), and though it's not a legal separation, those documents can be used in a future divorce as a precedent for both custody and finances. If you speak to an attorney (they often have free consults) you can use "I just spoke to my attorney" in conversation with your wife, putting some weight behind the things you want to see her do right now.

It's tricky because your WW is the primary caregiver, and if she moves in with her family temporarily she'll still have to be their primary caregiver. That's really rough because it sounds like your wife needs intervention to be a safe parent and you don't have a lot of secondary plans available immediately. I was thinking if you saw an attorney, even just presenting your WW with official papers or using the words "my attorney recommended..." might communicate to her just how seriously you're taking this. If she doesn't have respect for you or your marriage or herself, she might have some sense of self-preservation when confronted by a quasi-legal document?

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's truly awful.