SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DDAY was 12/31/22

Found out about 15minutes before midnight that my (33M) WS (34F) had a drunken sexual tryst with a mutual female friend who is also married but apparently has a different arrangement with her husband.

This is the second time this has happened (also drunk the other time) and we have talked about her sexuality and she's assured me and our couples counselor that isn't the case.

I'm on such a brutal roller coaster that I hate for everyone involved.

We've gone on a few dates since and I'm trying to reconcile but I feel like I'm faking everything and I can't get past it.

I'm on such a brutal roller coaster that I hate for everyone involved.

We've gone on a few dates since and I'm trying to reconcile but I feel like I'm faking everything and I can't get past it.

This is exactly how I feel about my marriage. I'm 10 months out from DDay1 and have now decided our only future is divorce, but I've always known that I can't forgive infidelity so I guess for me this ending was inevitable. When was your first DDay because you say it happened before? Was it with the same person? I guess I'm wondering, if you truly want a future together, whether it's safe for her to be around this person anymore or whether you need to start implementing NC etc.

So sorry you've found yourself here (although this forum really is the most amazing support for this situation) and sorry your dday was on a special day of the year.

(((hugs)))

Hi BrokeninBow, and welcome to SI. Sorry that you've had to find us. We call the ups and downs an emotional roller coaster.

I would recommend the Healing Library. There's lots of great information there, and a list of the acronyms we use. Also, at the top of the thread are some pinned posts that have more great information.

Without knowing what was said at couples counseling, it's possible that your wife might be bisexual or bicurious. Because you're M, she should prefer you exclusively - and that is where there's a problem. There are other members where the AP was same sex.

It's ok if it's a deal breaker. Your WW has broken your boss more than once. What is she doing to change to be a safe partner and not have sex with other partners? Would you feel different if her APs weren't the same sex?

Take care of yourself during this time, eat, stay hydrated, try to sleep.

First DDAY was September 2021 and the AP was the same person.

Both instances included heavy alcohol use but there were no red flags leading up to that and we R'd so I chalked it up to a weird blip.

What makes it difficult is that our kids and OW kids are close + they are family friends and part of our friend group.

I had told myself that any PA would cause me to leave but we have kids so I'm willing to fight my urge to cut and run.

We went NC after DDAY2 and WS has shown remorse and seems to truly want R but 3 weeks in and I can't say anything has helped so far.

She's told me she won't put herself in that position ever again which I told her are good boundaries but I needed a better answer on why it wouldn't happen again because that seemed like the only thing stopping her was opportunity.

As far as AP being same sex, yes, I do view it differently I guess, fair or unfair. If it were OM instead of OW then I don't know that I would even consider R. Not sure why I have the double standard but it's there.

If you want R, she needs to do some serious work on herself and boundaries. The book Not Just Friends might help you two and also How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair. An individual counselor that is experienced with infidelity might be good for her.

What else is she doing to help you heal?

As far as the same sex different standard, I have not experienced it but think I might be the same way. Maybe it has something to do with it being less threatening, since it was not a man.

Why are you dating her? That is the epitome of the pick me dance. Stop.

You're less than a month from dday,and there was a dday 2. You haven't had time to recover, there is no way you should jump into attempting reconciliation.

You're trying to fix this? No sir. Stop. This is hers to fix,not yours.

Your job right now,and for the next few months,is to watch her actions. What work is she doing to become a safe partner? You should be taking care of yourself. And you need to inform the OBS. Maybe he and his wife have an open marriage. Maybe not. You can't trust anything your wife says right now. You'd be surprised how many cheaters tell their BS that the AP and their spouse are open..and the OBS has no idea. Also,you need to be tested for stds.

What she should be doing, if she wants any chance at reconciliation..at minimum..

Tested for stds.

Complete NC. None with OW,and she has to drop those mutual friends. Absolutely zero contact of any kind with OW.

Full transparency. You get full access to all accounts and the phone. Passwords included.

She answers all of your questions without anger or defensiveness, and no blame.

She gets into IC to figure out why she does this.

She stops drinkong,since clearly she can't maintain boundaries when drinking.

And anything else you to start feeling safe.

Same sex affairs are the same as opposite sex affairs. In some ways,more damaging. She's getting something she can't ever get from you. That isn't ok.

Stop couples counseling. It's way to soon. The marriage didn't cheat

She did. She needs nonths of IC first.

You've offered reconciliation before you know if she is capable of doing the work. You should really pull back on that. Otherwise you're teaching her she can cheat,and nothing really needs to change. Since this is her second affair,she's a serial cheater. Which means she has a lot more than the average cheater to sort through.

Have you read the 180 in the Healing Library?

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:43 PM, Sunday, January 22nd]

There are two books that are highly recommended. One is How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. It's a short book and very helpful. It's written to help the WS, but I found it helpful, too. Another one is Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

Have you informed the other betrayed spouse (OBS)? They have a right to know, and can be of help to make sure that the A has ended. Plus, they have the right to know and make their own informed decision. You have no idea how many times the BS finds out that the AP has lied about their partner.

Also, your WW should be in IC to figure out why she feels it's ok to cheat. She cheated, your M didn't. If you can, IF with a betrayal trauma specialist would probably be helpful for you.

It's important to watch your WW's actions rather than listen to her words. Words mean nothing because cheaters lie, then lie some more. What is her action plan so this doesn't happen again? And is she going to be white knuckling or is she truly willing to change to be a safe partner?

ETA: There is a same sex AP thread in the ICE (I Can Relate) forum. You may want to read it for some insight. Must admit that I haven't.

[This message edited by leafields at 1:49 PM, Sunday, January 22nd]

Bisexuality is not an excuse for cheating. It's definitely something you should consider, if it seems less of a betrayal to you, because it's not.

Bisexual just means you can be attracted to either gender. Monogamous is still monogamous, and the vast majority of bisexual people only want one partner, it's just that their dating pool is bigger.

Consider how difficult it will be to rebuild trust with her. Some members here don't like when their spouse is alone with a member of the opposite sex; will you want your wife never to be alone with anyone forever or you'll have to worry what she is up to?

Maybe once was a drunken mistake, if you want to view it that way. Twice is not.

((((BIB)))) <--- hugs to you

I'm so sorry that you find yourself here.

You don't say how long you have been together, that is important information so that you can get more specific advice.

First, you should understand that her infidelity has NOTHING to do with her sexuality - any sexuality can make the decision to stay faithful. And if she 'loses' her boundaries when she is drinking / drunk, then the drinking has got to go. For BOTH your sakes.

It is going to take some time to decide how you want to procede or not procede with this relationship. In the meantime, please take care of yourself - eat healthy food, drink water, get sleep, do some kind of movement / exercise (even walking counts).

Don't try to hard right now to get her back, she will have to EARN it, if you even decide that you want her back. This shitstorm can be a deal-breaker for you and that's ok.

Read up on the 180 - BS FAQs question 11 (see the healing library). It will help you to clear your head and detach.

Hang in there, BIB, we've got your back!!

((((BIB))))

My W cheated with a woman, too. On one hand, it's easier to deal with - there are no possible comparisons between me and the ap. In a sense, her choice of ap tends to show that I'm manly enough for her - it's just that she wanted a woman. If my W had cheated with a man, I might always have wondered if he was more manly than me (whatever 'manly' is...). OTOH, as someone above said, I can't do what ow did, so if that's what my W really wants, we're doomed.

My reading and talking with a few gay men and women say that gay people are disgusted by sex with the opposite gender. That means you have a chance for a good sexual relationship in the future if your W likes sex with you, if she chooses to be monogamous, and the consensus here is, I think, that monogamy is something we all can choose. A bi- person can be just as monogamous as a straight or gay person. It's just that my W has to reject sex with potentially twice as many people as I do.

So D is a choice you can make, and R is a choice you can make, too. So is taking your time 1) to figure out what you want and 2) to observe your W to see if she's a good candidate for R.

R is a lot more than staying together. To R, your W above all needs to change from a cheater to a good partner. That usually needs the help of a good IC.

In your case, your W really needs to look at her sexuality, IMO. Two times for sex spread apart in time make me wonder: Were these incidents truly a matter of bad choices, or were they what she really wants but uses alcohol to stop suppressing her desires? I wouldn't believe what she told your MC unless she really looked inside.

She also needs to look at her alcohol use. Is she addicted? Is getting drunk a pattern that needs to be changed? I know I got drunk in my 30s - I can remember at least half a dozen times. In 10 years. I never allowed myself to cheat while drunk. So I think your W has a problem with either alcohol or sexuality or both, and she can't become a good partner unless she resolves her issues.

To R, you both need to negotiate what your M will be beyond simply monogamous, and beyond the kids - after all, unless you're unlucky, you'll have many years together after your kids move out. Look, you are likely to live well into your 80s, and you can be sexually active that long - with a partner who turns you on. Will your W do that for you in 50+ years? I know you can't know that for sure now, but you can make an educated guess. (And if the thought of sex between old people turns you off now, I assure you that your definition of 'old' will change as you age. )

*****

Most of all, though, you need to heal yourself and figure out what you want.

Healing yourself requires, IMO, the facing the fear, grief, anger, and shame that comes with infidelity and processing those feelings out of your body. It requires figuring out how to stay true to yourself. If you really want R, IMO you owe it to yourself to find out if it's possible - unless you change your mind. If you really want D, IMO that's what you need to do - unless you change your mind.

A lot of adults say they wish they grew up from a broken M instead of in a broken M. Kids know a LOT more than adults think kids know, and they'll know if you stifle yourself more than is good for you. So I urge you not to stay for your kids unless that's really the best choice for you. It may not be the best choice, but it may be for you.

I'm all for R when both partners are willing to do the necessary work, but if your W doesn't address and resolve her infidelities and/or alcohol abuse (or whatever it is that enabled her cheating), R will not work for you, at least IMO.

A good IC can help you here, if you want help.

MC? A good MC can help you with some heavy confrontations. If your MC is looking at your relationship for the source of your W's As, stop as soon as you can, because - as others have said repeatedly, your relationship didn't cheat; your W did. Our MC kept our sessions to my W's cheating.

*****

Above all, know that you can heal, if you learn to process your feelings out of your body. If you learn that, you'll come out of this stronger than you were at the start, and you'll dramatically increase your odds of living a good life in the future, with or without your W.

You are stronger than you think.

*****

BTW, inform OBS - their M may be less open than ow told your W.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:28 PM, Sunday, January 22nd]

Confirmed that OBS is aware and they have their own arrangement.

WS has agreed to do IC (she offered to do it but I have since made it a requirement for R) but she needs to figure out the alcohol piece because I agree that is an issue for her and has a family history of it.

We have been together for 13 years and married for 9.

A couple here (and elsewhere) have mentioned this that sexuality isn't an excuse to cheat and I 100% agree.

I truly appreciate the support, empathy and understanding. I don't know that I see it as black and white as some of the posts here frame it but it's all still very fresh so maybe it gets there with time.

One saying here is take what you need and leave the rest. Everybody is different and healing isn't a linear process.

It took me 18 months to figure out my XWH wasn't really doing the work. Then he crossed the hard boundary I'd set (no inappropriate sexual contact with somebody), so I held from to my boundary.

It isn't always easy to know which way to go, and that's ok.

Sorry you are here brother.

I fully agree with all of the above, especially HellFire and sisoon.

Look after yourself and children (if any) first. This includes eating healthy and exercising for the stress of the betrayal.

Stop dating her and start to pull back, she has to work on herself as well as the relationship to help heal you.

Cheaters lie, they lie a lot and about everything to minimise the fallout.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice…

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 11:34 PM, Sunday, January 22nd]

You have received great advice so far. You have been betrayed twice. Time to pull back and watch, she should take the lead towards R not you.

You are correct about the roller coaster of emotions, ride it out don’t rug sweep, it never works.

I want to echo the advice to tell her H. Open M is used so often by WS’s. Tell him so he can decide for himself.

I don't know that I see it as black and white as some of the posts here frame it

What do you see as a Grey area?

One time can be a drunken mistake. A second time, not so much. What is gray here? Is this a boundary for you or not?

Unfortunately, there is risk involved. Right now you’re that typical suburban family. Husband, wife, kids, neighbors, friends, family, etc - all the joys snd constraints of typical family life.

Fast forward to when the kids are out of the house, and the dynamic changes. The constraints and boundaries are different. One can then potentially explore the years long suppression of their desire for a same sex relationship without facing the full negative effects like before.

This is the risk snd there’s not much you can do to control the outcome. D to avoid this potential risk, and you lose on the joy of what you currently have. And, you have no idea that if you hadn’t divorced no further cheating would have occurred. R, and face the risk that when the kids are out of the house, and the constraints are off, your WW will fully explore that side of her sexuality that’s currently being suppressed as we speak.

It’s an unenviable dilemma. One that all BS’s face, the exception being that the same sex aspect adds a bit of twist vis a vis the usual risk vs reward equation of R vs D.

So sorry about what you are going through. Same sex female affairs are just hard. One it’s hard to tell between friendship and affairs. They could be good friends and text all day or it could be AP. Being with one another a lot could be friendship or AP. I went through this. My WW always said ….just friends .. Even though she saw AP every day. Went to lunch with her ect

Most women don’t want the world to know, so want to live the family life . She will continue to be the proper wife. Just with a dark side. Total break with her AP is the only way to stop this. No seeing this other family. See if she will go along with this. That will be your answer

[This message edited by HarryD at 4:08 PM, Monday, January 23rd]

Yeah, same sex female As are hard to take. But as a BS, I don't see much of a diff between same sex female As, same sex male As or heterosexual As.

And NC with the ap is just not enough. The ap is not an issue - the problem lies with the WS. The WS chose to cheat. The WS could have said 'No,' and that would have prevented infidelity. NC with the ap stops this A, perhaps, but leaves the WS open to the next ap. Prevention of repeat infidelity is the responsibility of the WS.

You have recd some great advice so far.

I'm going g to reinforce the top 3 things I tell every newbie here.

1. See an attorney, don't tell her you are doing this but go. Learn your rights, her obligations, what a D looks like what you can and can't do should you decide you are done and learn what these options look like for your kids.

2. This is a hell of a trauma, don't try to downplay it. It may in fact be the hardest thing you have ever been through. ThT said see your dr. Make sure you get full STD testing, get a physical make sure your blood pressure is good. If you aren't sleeping or eating g let your dr know. There is no shame in getting help with these fight/flight responses and sustaining them for any decent period of time is horrible for your body. Many of us here have developed autoimmune diseases due to the enormous stress.
Do NOT assume because it was with a woman or another mom that there is zero risk of STDs. Get tested and make your wife get tested. That means blood work and physical exam.

3. Nothing you did or did not do caused this. Your wife is a broken person and she has a metric shitton of work to do digging into her why and fixing that. That is her responsibility and hers alone. You CANNOT fix her.
You CANNOT dot the work for her.
You CAN set firm boundaries on what you will tolerate moving forward. And is suggest you do.
You CAN demand what you need and want to allow R to happen.
If she is unwilling or unable to those things then know she is not R material.

Whole your situation is unique being a cheater is NOT. Cheaters follow the same playbook. They say and do the same shit, its all very easy to predict and see through once you have been through it. So remember that when people say there are things that need to be done and happen.

The first thing that I would urge you to do is demand no contact with this other woman. The kids obviously will want to interact and may even need to but you and your wife need to set that boundary with both the wife and husband of the other couple. You cannot heal and rebuild with them in your lives.
Your wife needs to understand that you have ZERO trust in her and while you may ask for things that seem unreasonable she created this mess and will need to do the work to help you heal and start to rebuild trust.