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Falling. This is simply too much. She needs to immediately write a complete snd truthful timeline of her A(s). Then, she needs to take a polygraph.

My guess is that she might write the timeline but refuse the poly. The timeline is easy for her because she’s essentially told you nothing, and you have no way to disprove her at her word. She knows this.

However, the poly will get you the truth. That’s what you need - the truth. After you get the truth, then you can make decisions about your future and whether that includes your WW or not.

If she refuses the poly it’s fir one of two reasons. A. She’s lying. B. She’s telling the truth but feels that it’s beneath her. And, if it’s beneath her, then she, the confirmed cheater, is putting her ego above your need to know the truth about her cheating.

However, if she agrees, do not delay snd get the poly completed ASAP. Again, my guess is that she will refuse.

Until you know the truth you will be living in a state of limbo, anxiety, and mistrust the rest of your life. You deserve better than that.

Falling,

Ask yourself this---if you discovered more facts about her cheating, and she will not admit to it....or just to what you know....what are you going to do with this dynamic?

If you want to stay with her until the day that you die, like you mentioned prior, then you are going to have to learn to lower your self-worth, and accept that the probability of future misbehavior....and her efforts to keep these hidden from you. Doesn't sound like a really good option, but one that you might have to adopt to stay with her.

But how about THIS as an alternative--what if you would like to stay with her, but would be willing to end the relationship if she doesn't prove her honesty/commitment to you? That sounds like a much healthier option. You should never accept 'less-than'. In a committed relationship, you are ENTITLED to honesty. You are ENTITLED to monogamy. You are ENTITLED to being treated with respect....assuming that you reciprocate in kind.

You KNOW that she has cheated in the past. You KNOW that she has not only kept information from you, but confessed to only what she could no longer deny. It is time for you to reverse the process. Instead of trying to pry information out of her, let her know that you simply do NOT believe that you have the whole truth, and it is up to HER to convince you otherwise. Let her know that your desire to stay in the marriage is eroding, and it will eventually reach a point where it would hurt less to walk away, than to continue to feel that she lacks the respect for you to feel safe in your own marriage.

You see? No ultimatums need to be stated. No line in the sand, because you don't really know where your line is. Only time will tell. But by doing this, you shift the burden onto her, where it rightfully belongs, to restore a feeling of honesty to the marriage.

As Bigger says - not often enough - a polygraph will NOT get the truth. At best it can get what the subject believes in the truth.

He also has been known to point out that it's a waste of resources unless the answers will make a difference with respect to what your decisions will be.

*****

I am asking myself this. How many times has she got away with it because of me being blind and trusting my wife that she would never have any affairs on me just because I know I would would never do that to her?

Will answering that question help? How? Or is it a way for you to beat yourself up?

I didn't miss signs. I asked my W about them, she denied, I believed her denials. So what? She had already cheated when I noticed the signs!

You missed signs. You misinterpreted her words and actions. Now you notice signs and have a better way of interpreting her actions.

The big issue that's left is: how will you respond to your new insights? What do you want? What do you think you can get?

Focusing on one's WS seems natural, but the most important factors in the BS's decisions are what the BS wants and what the BS perceives is real vs fantasy.

You are the most important part of your equation(s). Where are you heading? IS that the right direction for you? Once you have your place established you can start to integrate other important factors - values, kids, finances, etc., etc. etc.

So back for another up.
Would it be possible that the cheating spouse actually believes some of the lies they tell. I am still struggling to understand what I was talking about in my last post so I can get a better understanding and possibly open my eyes by having a better understanding.
How do you or they do it? How can or do you you go out and have sex or other sexul things of nature, then come home and just act like everything is good and just act like everything is normal when if fact you were having sex with you affair partner an hour earlier.
And then when you confront them about and you have proof that they don't know about. When they answer you with a flat out lie. Just like how they were acting when they came home from being with there affair partner they lie so well that you believe them. Do they have some form of denial that allows them to believe their lies? My Wife swore on her Dad's name they she was telling me the truth when I confronted her about her affair and she loved her Dad dearly only for me to find out she was lieing about telling me everything she did with him. Next she put her hand on a Bible and swore in God's Name and our Precious Daughter's Name only to find out she was again lieing about telling me everything she had done with him. I mean how does someone do that without any hesitation and ease considering the seriousness of what they are doing with lies? That is why I am where I am today. I mean if she could do that what is keeping her from lieing about everything she did with him? I still believe she hasn't told me everything.
Another thing that is happening now. We got into a big fight over her affair before Christmas and I threatened her I was going to contact the wife of the trash she had an affair with and maybe she would be able to get more out of her husband when she confronted him about the affair than what she has told me. I could tell she was upset about that idea and she still insist that she has told me everything. I confronted her about resent suspicious activities and the way she has been acting and she is insisting there is nothing going on now but my gut keeps telling me otherwise.I have no proof. Just things being out of normal. Like going to the store and sometimes the same store several times a week just to pick up a few things after work and taking two hours to do it. Guarding her cell phone or sitting away from me acting like she is playing a game without me being able to see what she is really doing on it for hours at a time.
Never initiates sex.I am always the one who does and when we do she doesn't want to make out. Just have sex real quick. Keeps her shirt on during sex. I catch her looking at me odd during sex. She isn't affectionate towards me like being loving by hugs or kisses though the day. Rarely talks about anything unless I start the conversation. Has ran down to the store just to pick up a few things I took her an hour to do it and it's a small store 10 minutes from the house. She has done this twice recently and left her wedding rings at home. My gut is telling me now that something else is going on but she denies it and I have no proof.

There's two ways to go here if you think about it. One, pull out all the stops to get the proof you need. That would mean surveillance. In order to get the best result, one you can use in court, hire a PI. Be prepared to stand by what you learn. IOW, if every effort is made to catch her and you get nothing, than there's nothing to find. In that case, you talk to your wife about what happened and then get therapy to increase emotional intimacy. If, on the other hand, there's fire where you saw smoke, file for divorce and mean it.

Two, just file for divorce and mean it.

Bottom line is that you don't trust your spouse. While I don't agree that any of the sexual habits you've mentioned are evidence of adultery, clearly new trust has never been achieved. That's a crappy way to live.

Falling,

My Wife swore on her Dad's name they she was telling me the truth when I confronted her about her affair and she loved her Dad dearly only for me to find out she was lieing about telling me everything she did with him. Next she put her hand on a Bible and swore in God's Name and our Precious Daughter's Name only to find out she was again lieing about telling me everything she had done with him. I mean how does someone do that without any hesitation and ease considering the seriousness of what they are doing with lies?

Simple, because it means more to you than to them. Swearing on a person's name/grave, on their kids/parents/grandparents/siblings lives, or whatever holy book, means nothing. It is just a matter of uttering the words, as there are zero repercussions for the lie. Will the parent change their name? Will they roll over in their graves? Will the kids/parents/grandparents/siblings lose their lives? Will the holy book burn? The answer to all would be an emphatic 'No'. So, what consequences are there for swearing on those things?

It only has importance to those that believe that it will have consequences.

Gently now, you are now trying to blind yourself. You had just posted huge red flags, but refuse to see them.

Until you are willing to open your mind and think about things (rather than rely on faith), you will be stuck in a trap that you had set for yourself.

Bump by request

Hello
It's been a long time since I have made any post. There have been many things transpired and wanted to give an update about one thing in particular. This is about the rose that I found in the trash. She didn't know I found it. I asked her on several occasions if she had received any gifts from anyone that I didn't know about. I asked about other things like jewelry,having dinner dates ect instead of just asking if anyone bought her flowers. Although it was always asked when discussing it with her if anyone had bought her flowers. Her answer was always no. Finally one day I had enough. I point blank asked her if anyone had bought her a flower or flowers. Her answer was no. I proceeded to show her the rose and at first she denied even knowing what I was talking about. Then after telling her I got it out of the trash and I had already asked our daughter if she had thrown a rose away in which she didn't I told her that she was the only one who could have done it. After that she said she forgot about it and first said a girl running the register at a local pharmacy gave it to her as she was checking out. She said she had a bag of roses and was giving one to everyone that wanted one. About five minutes later while still discussing it she changed the location and said she got it at the Local Supermarket instead of the pharmacy. She said she had to think about it and forgot which store it was at first. This was in December and I said so there was a girl at the cash register with a bag of roses giving them out? She said yes and asked what was wrong with her taking the rose and that maybe the girl thought she looked like she needed one. I then asked why she would take the rose from the girl and then proceed to come home and wrap the rose in a plastic bag then throw it away in the trash instead of putting the rose in water and keeping it for a few days until it started to die. She said she didn't know why she did it. I think she is lieing about where she got it. I think a guy gave her the rose and she threw it away thinking I would never know anything about it. I think she changed the story from getting it at the Local Pharmacy to the supermarket because she changed it after I said the pharmacy didn't even sell flowers. I don't know for sure who gave her the rose but I don't believe she got it from some cashier at the supermarket giving them our just to bring it home and throw it away. She is still very distant and still doesn't show much love towards me the way you would expect a loving wife would. I believe a guy gave her the rose and it was one single red rose. I looked what the meaning of receiving one red rose was from a man to a woman and it said that one red rose signified love and true love. What do you all think? Am I crazy or is my gut not going to stop until I get to the bottom of my insecurities? There are a few other things I have found out that don't go with what she has told me as well but I wanted to start with this first and see what your thoughts were. I am still convinced I am dealing with a pathological lair but don't know how to prove my suspicions.
Thank you all for any input or direction. I am really troubled.

You got a ton of good advice 5 months ago. What the heck have you done in all that time?

You keep doing the SAME thing and getting the SAME results.

She’s had more affairs than you know. And you will never know because she’s a proven serial pathological "wouldn’t know the truth if it bit her" kind of liar.

Please please please STOP 🛑 expecting the truth from her.

She’s not your soul mate. She’s not your goddess. She’s a broken soul that is destroying your marriage because she’s not been faithful and she refuses to be honest with you.

As I said earlier she needs professional help. Without that you are going to remain exactly where you are.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:07 AM, Sunday, July 2nd]

It is a very long story that I could write a book with. Basically I was in a position where I could not stir things up. The position I was in has all been taken care of and I can now start to take action. Although I couldn't take any actions without negative ramifications to me the last six months I have been gathering information quietly and sitting on it. My last post was one of the things that transpired during my time of not posting any updates. It is one of the last things I posted about last year. Basically the last six months I have been gathering information but only now can take action.

I hope that you can move forward and start to heal. First you don’t need her to validate ANYTHING. Second your healing must occur whether she is truthful with you or not.

I hope your journey from today is focused on your healing.

Falling,
The ease at which your wife can look you straight in the face and LIE is astounding. Her lies are outlandish, ridiculous not to mention insulting!! Yes a single red rose can signify true love. A man gifting a woman a single red rose is indicative of that sentiment - true, deep love. Just like a white rose can signify eternal love and yellow roses usually signify friendship. Whoever gave her that rose was intentional about its meaning. No girl at the cashier stand stood there and handed out single red long stem roses to random customers who just happened to "look" like they could use a pick me up! No one does that Falling. No. One. The minute my spouse comes home with a single red rose and I’m standing on his head demanding to know who the heck gave him that!!! She’s got a side thing going on Falling. If you needed confirmation of your suspicions - this is it. She is lying to you - and has been lying to you your whole entire marriage. I wish it wasn’t so, but it is. The question is, what are you going to do about it? I wish you well. You deserve so much better than what you’ve been given.

It sounds like she is lying and not going to give you the truth. She's probably lied so much that she can't remember the truth.

How did I know my XWH was lying? His mouth was moving. I got to the point where I knew enough and I was tired of the lies.

Just to get an idea of where you stand today:

What if you discovered/she confessed that this rose was from a man? What do you think that you would do with this information?

What I would do would depend on if she voluntarily told me that a guy gave her the rose and explained why he gave the rose to her or if I somehow found out she was lieing about getting the rose from the girl at the cash register.
My problem is, how do I know if a guy gave her the rose or the girl at the register gave her the rose?
I believe a guy gave her the rose. Why would she accept a rose from a cashier then come home and throw it in the trash?
On the other hand, what if she is telling the truth?
How can I ascertain if she is lieing or telling the truth?
It's driving me crazy. I don't believe her inside but it's like she can make me believe what she says no matter how crazy her story sounds.
She sounds so convincing and truthful when she is answering my questions.
I am fighting such a battle right now. I know a lot of you think I am crazy. Maybe. To be honest I don't know what to do. I need help.

She sounds so convincing and truthful when she is answering my questions.
I am fighting such a battle right now. I know a lot of you think I am crazy. Maybe. To be honest I don't know what to do. I need help.

Polygraph. Have her write out a timeline beforehand so you can use the poly to verify it. You may get a parking lot confession before the appointment. Even if you do, follow through with the test.

If your gut tells you something, listen to it.

If you think she's still being dishonest and sketchy then you have some ways to check;

GPS on her car
VAR in her car
Hire a P.I.

All of the above would give you proof, if you really need it that is.

You need to get yourself off this merry-go-round, it will drive you mad.

I still love my wife with all my heart, I feel like we are truly soulmates and God put us together back when I was in 4th grade and she was in 5th grade.

I believe the first thing you have to do in order to heal yourself is to get her off that pedestal in your mind. You said you believe in soulmates. There are approximately 8 billion people on this planet Earth. Approximately one half of them are female. Do you really and truly believe that she is totally unique among those 4 billion people?

I believe that there are women, such as my wife, that I probably would have an extremely strong chemistry with. My wife and I had great chemistry when we started dating 63 years ago and we still have strong chemistry. We hug each other constantly throughout the day. Her love language is physical touch. For many years we have had the practice of cuddling for 15 to 30 minutes each night before we go to sleep. Friends and relatives are surprised at how affectionate two old people in their 80s can be... even in public... and we aren't ashamed to show affection in public.

However, (and you knew there would be an however), I cannot rationally believe that she is the only woman on this planet that I could have ever had this connection or relationship with. I am sure that there are multitudes of women that I could have had this sort of chemistry... I just never met them or got to know them. I know that at the time we met she was The One with whom I had that great sort of chemistry. However, if I had never met her and if I had met someone else at that time with whom I had that great chemistry, then that woman would have become my Soulmate and The One.

Movies (think Disney) and romance novels perpetuate this Soulmate-Myth. It sells and it is a very big business. It strokes fantasies. Recently there was a series on Netflix entitled "The One". A woman thought she had found the algorithm on how DNA could determine Your One... Your Soulmate. However, it is all really a myth when you think about it from a big picture perspective.

She is a very flawed human being. She is not a saint and should not deserve to be put upon a pedestal in your mind. In fact, none of us should ever put another human on a mental pedestal. As far as I am concerned, there is only one on a pedestal in my mind... he lived a perfect life about 2,000 years ago... then he went home to his Father. I might get a slap on the wrist for saying that, but that is my belief.

Anyway, you need to somehow get her off that pedestal in your mind. Maybe with the help of individual counseling.

I think when that happens you can then begin to attack this problem of yours.

I wish you the best.

Like another person said; polygraph, VAR, and GPS. Do it this week. Get it done.

If she did admit to you a guy gave her the rose, she would come up with another excuse as to why. She would never tell you the truth if it made her look bad.

Also, you don't want to be the guy going through the trash looking for evidence. You are better than that. Which is why you need to get out of infidelity or accept it as the cost of being in a relationship with her.