SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There is no possibility that if it is semen it is mine. Impossible with zero chance and she knows that as well. If it test positive with the in home test kit I will send it in to a lab and have it DNA test done on it to prove it if I have to.
I believe with the way several paper towels were all wadded up together and the fact they were stuck together and the fact it showed up clearly in the UV Light that it is semen. I mean I have looked at the other possibilities and just don't see it possible to be anything else.

I've not commented on this thread before. I've just read the entire thing.

Why haven't you scheduled a polygraph? That seems the easiest way to set your mind at ease. And, because she knows she has cheated and lied,in the past, she should understand your struggle,and jump at the chance to set your mind at ease.

As to the flower..there is a particular grocery store with a fan base, so to speak. They have a group on Facebook. I won't say the name,because I'm not sure if it's against the rules.

Anyway..it is a common thing, for people who shop at this store, to buy a bouquet of flowers,and hand them to someone, randomly,in the store,or parking lot. This is a discount store,and the flowers are lovely,but not high quality.

I was given flowers once,by a sweet little boy, he said it was to brighten my day. I was in the parking lot,loading my groceries in the car.

I went home, put them in a vase, and told my husband. It was such a sweet gesture. This was years ago,before I knew this was a thing at this store. Regardless, it really touched me. I even put a flower in a book, to save.

And THAT is how she should have handled that,if it's true. There's no reason to throw away a beautiful rose. Unless she doesn't like flowers? And why in the world wouldn't she have mentioned it to you?

Seems odd.

So..polygraph??

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:49 PM, Wednesday, September 6th]

Your story is tortured and it has weighed heavily on you for a long time. I took a moment to look at a list of the substances that fluoresce under a black light and it fairly long and includes many common substances. You may be correct that it is semen but there may be another answer. So I guess a specific test may be the only way you will get some peace.

Sir, sorry you are going through this. I just read through your torturous thread. Youve received some great input both strategic and tactical, macro and micro.

A few recommendations:

• Please read No More Mr Nice Guy & The Way of The Superior Man asap.

• Stop the amateur sleuthing and hire a private investigator. You absolutely need to put these questions to rest. Let a pro help you do just that. On that note, consult the PI about where to send the towels to get them lab tested.

• Enact a version of the 180 and detach to whatever degree you can handle. You need space.

• Get/stay in IC and work hard at personal balance. Let a good therapist walk you through your FoO and your attachment predisposition.

Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 2:39 AM, Thursday, September 7th]

I have just now read this entire thread. I am so sorry you are in this situation.

No matter what I read from you, and all the others who are responding to your posts, one thing continues to be in my mind:

…that you already know what your wife and that man did with each other.

- met each other in a parking lot. They planned this.

– kissed… Made out

– she had her hands on him and masturbated him to an orgasm

– he had his fingers inside of her and masturbated her to orgasm

If I remember all of this correctly, my question is this…what more do you need to know?

I’m not asking if you would like to know the details… I think that 99.9% of us want the details. I know that I do.

But…

If you found out she was telling the truth, and that "all they did" was to masterbate each other to climax… would that be OK with you? Of course it would not be OK with you, but what I mean is, would that be "less bad" than if his penis was actually inside her? Could you "forgive" or "get over" it easier if there was no PIV intercourse?

For me, I have never believed that it was so much WHAT my husband did, but THAT he did it. That he made a conscious choice to put himself in the situation, and then he went through with something intimate/sexual with someone other than me.

I too have a strong Christian upbringing/background. My standards continue with me to this day. But for me, it wasn’t exactly what my husband did that ripped my heart out of my body. Is that he would plan and do anything of a sexual nature with someone… Even just that he wanted to.

I might be wrong about this. But when I’ve read your posts, when you say that you are so certain that more happened than what you know, it sounds to me like if you find out that nothing more happened, you could get past it. That somehow you could overcome mutual masturbation to climax, but actual intercourse would be unacceptable. If that is the case, maybe y’all can get through this.

I’m sure you know by now that it is possible that you will never know the complete truth from this woman. I will never know the complete truth from my husband. Or at least I will never be certain that I have the full truth. Even if he is telling me the full story. The fact that he has never put forth the effort that it takes to convince me of his trustworthiness or of the strength of our relationship and his love for me that would prevent him from wanting to act the way that he did.

For me, that’s what prevents me from having a true marriage relationship. We are still together, and at this point I am his caregiver. But we do not have what I consider to be a true marriage. And still to this day, 17 years later, I do not trust him. I know he will never cheat again because he is physically unable. But it is no consolation to me. For me to consider that I have a true closeness and a true marriage with him, I would have to know deep in my heart that he loved only ME and that he did not WANT to behave in that way ever again. Much less actually do it.

I guess my question to you is this…

If somehow your wife could convince you that she is being perfectly honest with you, would you take the chance that it could work?

Have you ever thought about your dealbreakers? And how you will be able to know when you have reached that point?

Respectfully, it seems to me that it is possible that you are using your uncertainty about what MORE she may have done other than what you know, to keep yourself in the relationship. Your uncertainty about what you believe to be true.

We all know how horrifying it is to face this type of situation. And how we wish that it wasn’t true. And how we hope, and sometimes fool ourselves into believing what we can accept.

Prayers that you are able to figure this out. Prayers that your wife can come to know the impact of her actions, and the work that needs to be done to win back/deserve you and the marriage. And prayers that you will be able to fully engage in the marriage rather than "always wondering".

And if you marriage should be over at some point, I hope you know that there is always the potential to meet someone else and have a true trusting/real relationship "for as long as you both shall live".

I am what some people would call a thinker. My mind simply doesn't shut down and I have never found an off switch. When something happens I analyze it inside and out, and look at different scenarios and outcomes based on what is logical. I the case of my wife's actions with her affair I could actually forgive her but put it to rest if I felt in my heart that she and him actually told me the truth about how far they went physically. I know that what they did was bad as far as them both masterbating each other to orgasm twice, that they admitted to. It's the logical side of the story they gave me that has been the problem with me letting go. I know if I waa that type of person and secretly planned on meeting with a female that looked as good as my wife and we met, made out to the point of having our hands on each other's sexual organs that I would be having sex and not stopping short of going all the way. I just find it impossible that I would have a cut off switch that I could say ok this is far enough and I am going to stop here.
That would be like me working for a year on a race car to try to get into the Daytona 500, qualifying for the race, and leading the race with one lap to go then letting off the gas and turning into pit road short of the finish line. Yeah I made the race, led the race, could have won the race but on the last lap I decided I didn't want ti win? To me, impossible sanareo. If they told me they had sex at the time all this happened I could have probably forgiven her for it. It's not what they did but what I suspect they lied about that is so damaging to me. I can forgive my wife if I know she is telling me the truth and not hiding skeletons. I can not forgive her if I know she hasn't told me everything and faced the consequences of all the things she did that were inappropriate. I mean how can I totally forgive her of everything if I don't know everything? At least if I felt she was honest I would be able to work on healing instead of investigating and always second guessing what she has done or doing.
Just to much has happened that seems impossible to me to believe when I feel like I am getting half the details.

Here is something else that is damaging.
My brother in laws parents are deaf.
His dad is extremely intelligent. He worked and retired as a master machinist for the United States Government.
Just recently my brother in law was discussing with his dad that my wife and I were having problems. I suspect that with his heighten ability to pick up on things when something isn't right he may have been the one who started to conversation with my brother in law and my wife and I. I believe with a handicap of being deaf you develop abilities to compensate such as the ability to ascertain when something just isn't right.
Anyway when he told him we were having problems he told my brother in law about something that happened about a year ago.
He said he was in town doing business and ran into my wife. He said they talked. (He takes a note pad and communicates with writing.) As he was leaving it started to pour down rain. He told my wife that since he was in a handicap parking spot next to the front of the building he would give her a ride to her car so she would not get wet. She accepted his offer. He said as they were about to leave another man called for her. He said she asked him to wait for a minute and went to talk to him. He told my brother in law her whole demeanor changed when she went to talk to him. Said she was all smiles, flirt, moving her hair with her hands ect. He said they would both look at him periodically. After a while of waiting he gave her a note a said he had to be going and asked if she still needed a ride to her car and she told him that was OK and she told him he could go ahead and leave. He told my brother in law that something was off about the whole situation and he suspected they were more than just friends. I feel his abilities to compensate for him being deaf allowed him to see more than others may have been able to. He is the type that would never say anything to me but since my brother in law told him we were having problems he told him about this.
It's things like this that have me constantly questioning my wife's true love and dedication to me.

Nine months is how long it takes to birth a baby. Everyone tracks the pregnancy and knows nearly to the day the baby is born. You have run in circles for 9 months and the only thing you have to show for it is that deep rut you formed and cannot see out of.

You are not taking care of yourself. You are trying to revive a dead marriage.

Everyone that has sent replies to this post is exactly right. Some of them have been uplifting. Some of them have been eye-opening. Some of them have hurt. Hurt very bad. Truth is I am messed up. Truth is that I never thought you could Love someone to much. To much that you could ignore what you are getting back from the person you are showing the Love to. I am absolutely sick right now and still struggling with accepting my wife for what some of you are saying she is. I admit that I still Love her. I admit that I wish she didn't do the things she did with other guys both before and after we were married. I admit that I want her to Love me the way that I Love her. I admit I still question myself when we are arguing and she denies things I am accusing her of. Even when the stories she tells me when she denies the things I am accusing her of are just so unbelievable and don't add up I still want to believe her. I sit and question myself and accuse myself of the one who is destroying this marriage by constantly questioning her about all the things that just don't add up.
I am scared. I want to be Loved by her so bad. I am scared of what my life would be without her. Since high school she has been the woman I wanted to be my wife. Even with the things she did to me in school I still Loved her. Even with the affair she had on me I still Loved her. Even though I didn't believe I knew all the facts I still Loved her. Even with all the things that have happened recently I still Love her. I need help. I need help in a bad way. As I said. Am I destroying this marriage by accusing her of things she hasn't done? Am I the one with the problem? She is at the point where she doesn't even want to talk about anything I ask her about. She said she is done with me bringing up the past and accusing her of things. She said she is to the point of being ready for divorce unless I stop questioning and accusing her. For those of you who have took the time to read this entire post and see some of the things that I am questioning her about and accusing her of I need your help. From what you have read and I tried to explain, am I the one who is crazy and falsely accusing her of things she hasn't done? Am I the one who will not accept what she is telling me is the truth and the one who is destroying this marriage? I am in a battle with myself. I do believe this. I feel that if right now I just stopped with all the questioning, stopped with all the accusing, stopped with staying up all night trying to find proof that she has cheated on me or if she is currently cheating on me. Stopped coming to this site and posting these messages begging for help. Stopped constantly wondering what she is doing. Stopped trying to keep track of her every move. Stopped checking her call and text history. I feel like if I just stopped all this detective work and the time I have spent and still putting into it and just focused on Loving her and showed her nothing but Love instead of drilling her constantly that we could probably be happy and she would show me some Love in return.
I feel like we could be happy. But. (And this is where I am messed up.) What if all my suspensions are true and what if I did just start to show her Love and we were happy, I question myself and wonder if my gut has been telling me the truth all along,and if she would just find another man to have another affair on me once she thought my guard was down and I wasn't watching her every move? I don't know what to do. As I said, I am scared. Scared of not having her in my life. She is the only woman I have ever Loved or been with. I don't know what I would do without her. I can not see myself of ever Loving someone else the way I Love her. She has been the one I have Loved since high school and since we were married in 96. That is such a long time. I feel all the good times we have had would haunt me if we divorced. I feel I would be so empty and lonely without her. I just can't stop with my constant thinking about the possibility of her cheating on me or lieing to me. There is just to much that doesn't make sense and my gut keeps telling me something isn't right. To me I am damned either way. I feel like my life without her would be empty and I feel like my life with her will be a constant struggle with me always being suspicious of her when gut is telling me things when things don't add up. I am afraid of losing her and I am also afraid of letting my guard down and giving all my heart to her only to be broken again in the future. I may sound like a big sissy or someone who is 15 years old but to be honest I am a big strong well fit man with a big Loving heart. Will you please help me? Help me to better understand her and the person you think she is? Help me to understand myself and the person you think I am? She is either a cheating whore who has always and still is playing me for a fool and has always had someone on the side she is screwing and will continue to have affairs on me or she is a lady who has made mistakes and feels sorry for the things she has done and has a husband that is putting her through hell because I can not let go of past and my insecurities.
I am someone who has been the best husband a wife could ask for or I am someone who just constantly stirs things up and crazy.
I know I have said a lot and I know some of you are thinking I am a nut job. I am really just a man that is lost and scared of what my future holds. It hurts really bad and I need better understanding and help from someone who was once like me and been in my shoes and were once as confused as much as I am now. I want to thank everyone who has listened to me, thank everyone for the help I have already received and thank anyone who can continue to help me.

You mentioned you were a thinker. I am one as well. I’m sure I would have been diagnosed with ADD and out on meds when I was a youngster. I had to learn to dial it down and still run 4 times a week as therapy.

I think you need to see someone to help with your anxiety. Yes your wife has issues and and any person would have trauma from it. But the true display of maturity though is how you respond and recover. You have been in a vicious painful circle…isn’t it time to move on and find peace?

Your wife at least temporarily left you to love another man and gave herself to him…more than once. At this point exactly what and how the body parts rubbed together is moot and you will never know. Hardly any BP will ever know the whole story anyway. AP lying is done to protect feelings of both sides at some level and is justified that way.

So, one thinker to another, I would suggest to focus on the long term goals instead of the specifics of what went down. If you want to try to work to a long term loving partnership you will have to accept and forgive and do the very hard work to establish healthy boundaries, communications and expectations.

But we always have to remember life is not always happy endings…maybe you two are really incompatible. I think to fall in love should only happen after the person shows that they may indeed love you and be willing to commit and sacrifice to you…otherwise you are wasting your time and love.

I believe I could forgive my wife if I felt I knew all there was to forgive. I will be a relief and a huge burden off my chest if my wife came to me and admitted to having sex in the first affair that I had simi proof of that something was going on between them. She first lied to me but after confronting the other man, I found out she lied to me then she only admitted to what I told her I knew. She admitted in this order, only admitting a little bit at a time.
Just someone I work with.
We are just friends.
We have never met anywhere together alone.
We have met but we just sat and talked.
He has never came on to me or tried anything. Just talking.
He kissed me once but I told him that should not have happened and he never tried anything again, we just talked.
We kissed a few times but that is all we did.
We made out a few times but never put our hands on each other.
We made out a felt of each other outside what we were wearing but that is it.
We made out a felt of each other and we both brought each other to orgasm on two separate occasions but that is all we did. We never had sex.
We never had sex is what I struggle with. I believe they somehow planned on how far it went and what they were going to say getting there stories straight when they found out they had been caught.
I believe it to be almost impossible that two grownups have planned on a place and time to meet in a secluded area,just the two of them alone.
Meet and make out to the point the two of you have pulled your pants down and the two of you are the boiling point and you both blow up and try to tell me they didn't just go ahead and have sex? Because they were so hot for each other in the moment and I can't believe that is all they did? Why would they just stop at that point? That is what they met to do. I believe in my head that it was likely they planned to meet and talked about having sex and they planned on having sex.
I believe they met each other and went all the way those two times and had sex. Probably unprotected sex. I have in my head that they likely had sex way more times than just two.
I also suspect that I caught her this time but it probably isn't the first time she has done it.
I have in my mind that she has likely had multiple affairs with multiple men and flings of short but intense meetings and having sex with multiple men. Some of just having sex just for pleasure and not really any other feelings other than wanting the pleasure from it. That is how most of her family was that she was raised around. They would have sex with anyone who had the weed or liquor. However liquor often ended with violence and someone going to jail for aggravated assault after a severe beating, multiple people fighting, stabbing, shoot out with multiple shots fired inside the house with multiple people present. It would get crazy scary when they were drunk.
Back to the point. They would just be smoking weed partying and just start making out and have sex. Like one night stands. They would cheat on their husbands. Immoral people.
She had the same characteristics as her family did in high school.
She was hell on wheels before we became serious and I was able to show her what a Functioning and Loving Family is like.
Something she had never experienced. LOVE
I actually broke up with her when I found out she slept with this thug smoking weed with him.
I took her back and then got shell-shocked when she told me how many one night stands she had had and how much sex she was having with this thug while they were boyfriend girlfriend
I was thinking to myself, wow,I had no idea she was doing things like that. On the outside when she was out to school or shopping or anywhere in public she was the most beautiful and sweet girl you could meet. Beautiful, beautiful sweet smile, such a sweet disposition and charm. Everyone just thought she was the sweetest thing. Including myself. I Loved her so much and I just saw us as being the perfect family so happy together.
When she told me and I suspect there were probably more guys she slept with than she told me,I was like really shocked. Here I was a never had sex with anyone and now shocked to find out that she was quite experienced in having sex with multiple guys and had an extreme wild partying other side most people didn't know about and how she had me fooled as well.
I believe she never stopped and had me fooled from the start. Until I was shocked once again to find out about the affair.
I am thinking again. How did I miss this?
This is what I believe about our marriage right now today.
I believe that she knows she is guilty of being unfaithful.
I believe she knows that I am watching her and suspicious of her messing around with other men. My closest Family now also know she has another personality in her. I believe she knows I know the things I have accused her of are true. I believe she knows it would be very difficult for her to have an affair because she knows that I don't trust her and will be aware of what she is doing. I think she knows her show is over and now that my Family has her figured out she will not get to have other men on the side without the risk of being caught. I believe she is going to try to blame me if we divorce and she is going to tell people I was over protective and constantly falsely accusing her of things she wasn't doing. I believe that is why she gets angry and shuts down when I try to talk about it now. She knows that I don't believe ridiculous excuses anymore and that I have finally saw the light for who she really is. I believe she would rather us divorce instead of her admitting to anything. Because she knows that if she admitted to anything it would likely lead to revealing other affairs I have missed. She wants to get a divorce because she is likely in love with someone else and see knows her cheraid is up with me and my Family. She is going to get out before to much is revealed. She even told me I would not have to worry about what she was doing and I would not have to be keeping you with what she was doing and she would be free to do what she wanted and the same with me. But. And here is the but yet again. I still Love her. I still want us to be happy again and grow old together and have a happy life. I can just invision how great our life could be and want it so badly. I still try to look for good in her and wish that she was the person who I want her to be. I wish none of these things happened and we could be what I dreamed it could be. I desperately try to find ways to make it work but I also feel it is one sided. I know she doesn't Love me right now. She even told me and admitted to that.
So there is an example of how I think. How I am driving myself crazy. Have I been fooled? Have I always been a fool for her Love because it was something I wanted so bad to be true?
Or
Am I a nutcase that is destroying our marriage by constant false accusations?
I appreciate your help.

I read 2 major problems: 1) your belief you can't live without her, and 2) her cheating in the past and possibly cheating now.

I think your best bet is to talk with a good IC about your unwillingness/inability to see yourself as an individual without your W. You are simply more than your M. You really can live without her.

IDK about the cheating now. I think the problem of not experiencing yourself as your self is getting in the way of dealing with her possible infidelity now.

I'm very sorry you're in pain. Unfortunately, IMO you can't get out of pain unless you take action to resolve your pain.

Also, like SmellTheRoses, I think I see some ADHD qualities in what you say about yourself, although I can't put my finger on them. I'm AD(H)D myself - maybe I'm seeing it when it's not there, but maybe I'm seeing it because it is there, even though others don't see it. My reco is to search the web for 'adhd self-test' without the quotes. If it looks like you may be ADHD, consult with a specialist. If you're ADHD, life goes a lot better with an effective treatment.

Another thing I need to share.
In my recent post I talked about how my wife had met my Brother In Laws deaf Dad one day in town and it had started to rain and he offered to give her a ride to her car. He was parked in front of the building close to the doors in the handicap parking and he would take her to her vehicle so she would not get wet. She said that would be great and accepted the offer. As they were leaving a man called out to her. She asked him to wait a minute. He said her whole attitude changed. Big smiles playing with her hair. He said something didn't seem right. Said they would both look at him periodically. He said he waited 10 15 minutes at the door and finally wrote her a note saying he had be going and asked her if she still wanted a ride to her car. He said she told him that it was OK and he could go on. His said they were still talking when he left.
So I confront my wife with this.
This happened a little over a year ago around July of last year.
I asked her if she remembered meet his dad out? She said she remembered seeing him out somewhere.
I said do you remember it started raining? She said she didn't know and I said you don't remember that it started raining? She then said yeah I think it may have started raining. I said do you remember that he offered you a ride to your car so you would not get wet because he was parked up front? She said she didn't remember him doing that. I you mean to tell me you remembered meeting him and remember that it started raining but you don't remember him offering you a ride to your car so you would not get wet? And that you don't remember accepting his offer? She got all defensive and loud and said maybe she did accept his offer. I then ask her if she remembered a guy calling for her and her going to talk to him and then talked to him so long 10 or 15 minutes and ask her if she remember him finally writing her a note telling her he had to go and ask her if she still needed a ride and if she remembered telling him to go on and staying and talking with him and asked her who it was that she was talking to for so long making him wait? He is old and feeble and it is hard on him to have to stand like that. She said she didn't remember him giving her a note and didn't remember who she was talking to.
She said she talks to a lot of people through her work. I told her this was a unique situation and told her I thought she knew exactly what I was talking about and lieing about not remembering.
This man is 90 years old and he remembered it in detail. I believe she remembers it in detail but doesn't want to reveal to me who it was she was talking to so she is just denying remembering anything that could lead to exposing who it was she was talking to.
It is stuff like this that drives me crazy. I am like there is no way that you can not remember the series of events that day. It was a unique experience with meeting him then the rain and offer form him to give her a ride then talking to this guy making him want so long that he gives you another note saying he had told leave you then staying and taking with the guy. It drives me nuts and makes me second guess and question myself. To me it's like things keep coming and she just keeps making excuses and denying things that are just too much to not question. And her excuses are a joke to me like she thinks I am stupid or something. Driving me insane.

I do have a have been diagnosed by professional therapist as being ADHD. I do take medication for it. I was only diagnosed about two years ago. I am sure I had it in school. I made my teacher's lives hell. Some of them I liked I behaved well and was a good student in their classes. Some of them I thought acted like we were 3 year olds and treated us like they were superior to us and we were below them. These are the ones that while they were teaching I would already know what they were teaching and I would fact check everything they were teaching while they were teaching. I would call them out on their mistakes and create a debate with them at which they would get upset because they could not get ahead of me. I was smarter than a lot of them and had the ability to convince them of things that didn't exist and never happened.

They would be very confused as to why they were loosing a debate to one of their students.

Then you had the old hard-core old school teachers that like to rule with an iron fist and used fear and discipline to manage their classroom. I would get these teachers so mad they would be crying, shaking, spitting, red faced about to burst one of the blood veins that are now very noticeable all over their foreheads. They could not break me no matter what the punishment was. They would bust my hind end with a paddle, make me write essays, detention, no free time. One of the meanest teachers in the school got so mad at me that he put my desk back in a big walk in closet and made me sit in there where he could not even see me. I could make that sucker mad by just looking at him. I very rarely got to attend any special inschool activities or free time. I had to stay inside and sit in a classroom because of my behavior.

Some of the teachers were vocational classes.I had advanced Auto Mechanics and Advanced Machine Shop. I participated in a Top Gun Shootout Competition. It was a state competition with only a select few picked to participate. I represented my High School. Got my picture on the front page and everything. It was cool.

But anyway those teachers would not leave me alone when they had to leave for any amount of time. They knew something would happen if they did. My machine shop teacher was also the softball coach. Sometimes he would get behind on the field due to the weather and he would go over and rake the field if he had a game that day. He would give everyone assignments to do on various machines. Lathe, presses, drilling, milling ect... I would be finished with my assessment and he would be going to rake the field. They called me Rambo in the shops in the Vocational Building.

He would walk by me and say come on Rambo. He would take me with him to the softball field and tell me to go sit in the dugout and not be touching or messing with anything in the dugout. He would drive by on the tractor and he would throw a pack of Marlboro Reds Shorts in the dugout as he drove by and I would sit and smoke his cigarettes while he worked on the field. Those were good times I will never forget.

So I definitely had it in school but went undiagnosed until I was an adult.

I am sure that has a lot to do with the way I have been dealing with my problems. I don't see anything that I have done has not been true or doesn't hold a valid point. It's possible that I dig more valid points out to discuss but they are in my mind things that don't match or add up. I fact check myself as well.

[This message edited by FallingApartAtTheSeams at 9:09 PM, Sunday, September 10th]

I also want to add that I am not like I was in school. I matured and became a well behaved stand up man.
Now I feel like I have been wrong about the woman I have loved all my life. I can speak all day long about how smart I was or how smart I am but I now think I have been fooled. To think about my life without my wife is something that I now have been thinking about. It is ripping my heart out. It is like I keep trying to remove the bad things that have happened and I focus on the good things but the horrific thoughts are always there as well.
How could I have missed seeing my wife was not what she portrayed herself to be? Did I see it and ignore it because she was what I wanted? I feel like I am doing this now. I love her so much I just want to erase the bad and think about the good. I want to be with her until the day I die. I want us to be happy and enjoy life. I know I could be happy if I could erase. The problem is I can't undo the things that have happened and fear more heartbreak.
It is truly scary for me. Why is my life failing apart? How can I pick up my broken self and try to fix it?

Get answers, not from her as she won't give you them, from a Private Investigator!

You are sending yourself down a darker path every time you post and you still want to take on being the judge, jury and executioner yet its only you that is slowly being erased as a person.

Hire the P.I. get your answers. If she's clean you'll find out, if she's cheating you'll find out. The way you're going now you'll never have any peace.

[This message edited by FallingApartAtTheSeams at 5:58 PM, Tuesday, September 12th]

I have thought about hiring a pi.
The problem is that the way things are between us now I feel like if she was doing something inappropriate with someone else they have either paused, slowed down, and if they have slowed down I feel like they would be very careful about what they were doing. I am not sure if I could afford a pi under the circumstances. She knows I don't trust her and I suspect that she or if she doing something both of them would suspect a pi could possibly be watching.

I just wanted to again say thank you all for all the help, for sharing your experiences with me and letting reflect on them. Hearing someone else that has been through what I am going through now has really helped. Many of the responses explaining that my wife sounds a lot like their spouses with the denial and lies. I want to think everyone for their advice and giving me options to consider. I now feel like my marriage is at the end. Something I thought would never happen is so close to happening. If our marriage ends in divorce their is going to be Many Many Many shocked people. Everyone thought we were the perfect couple. Everyone knew in school we would be married. Everyone thought we were a beautiful couple. Our Pastor at our church at the time we were married was the one who married us. He passed away early from cancer. He was a wonderful person and always told us we were the best looking couple He had ever married and said we looked so good together. He wasn't kidding either and he married a lot of couples. We stood out and people always noticed us everywhere we went. I am not exaggerating either. I am serious people watched us everywhere we went. It was obvious. When we would go out to a restaurant for instance, we almost always get a visit from the manager. One manager came to us and spoke with us on a very busy Valentines Day. We sat and happily ate our meal. Laughing and talking reminiscing about some of good times together. The manager walked up and started talking with us. He apologized to us and we asked him why he was apologizing and explained to him that we had enjoyed our dinner and evening. He said the waitress came to him and explained that she had messed our order up and we had to wait for a while but we never said anything about it. We just sat and talked.
The manager said he watched us to see our reaction as we waited for our food longer than normal and noticed how happy we were and how happy we were throughout our meal. He said many people were upset and he had been called to tables for complaints. He said they were short handed due to several of the waiting staff calling in. This is an upscale restaurant and uncharacteristic for something like this to happen. He said the entire meal was on him, called the waitress over and insisted that we both order something for dessert and take it home with us as we were about to leave. He said everything was taken care of including the tip. We graciously tipped the waitress even though he said he was. Our ticket would have had very expensive. We were like okay what the heck? Laughing about it as we walked through the parking lot.
Another high scale restaurant we used to go to the owners would always come out to talk to us.
We went to a nice restaurant one time and they actually sat us back in this big private room. Looked like it was for big events or something. Anyway they took us back and seated us. No one else but us in the room away from everyone. We were like ok? So we have this place to ourselves we are like getting unreal service the whole evening. It was like they were reading our minds or something. I am not kidding. My Wife and I noticed it immediately. At one point we were whispering about it trying to figure out how they knew everything we wanted. No one but us were seated in this room and the waitresses were only in there we they mysteriously brought us something we needed but didn't ask for. We leaned in and I said we are going to try something. I had almost a full drink. I whispered and told my wife that I was going to drink it halfway down and we would see how long it took for someone to come and fill it. No one but us still in this big room. Now this is where it gets interesting. I no longer told my wife what I was going to do, drank my drink down to about half way, and got leaned back into my seat and a waitress came around that corner with a new full drink for me and sat in on the table and walked back out. My wife and I were like what thaaaa heck? Our eyes all big and we were how did they know. We thought they were cameras in the room or something.
It was one of the strangest experiences we ever had. It was really nice though. Just a little strange. Stuff like that would happen all the time. We can like be at a football game or something like that I always get over ran. One time we were on the outside of the field watching the game. We go over to this area where no one else is at. Not even close to anyone. I get fired up at ballgames and tend to yell and make noise and celebrate our team when they make big plays. Anyway within 20 minutes we were surrounded by people. I talking right on top of us just different groups standing right on top of us chatting. I am talking bumping elbows. I look around and tell my wife why are all these people standing all around us. There clear areas all around us that we wide open with zero people.
Anyway I feel and many people have felt we had something special that many people did not have.
I feel it is ending.
My wife basically has told me she is finished talking to me about any questions I have about the things that have happened. She said if I was going to divorce her to go ahead. She has become cold and bitter. So now I am looking at my marriage ending. She said she wasn't going to be accused of anything else and she was done talking about it. Started crying briefly before getting hateful again. Has showed zero emotion or effort to even talk for about a while now.
So I need anyone's opinion that may help me understand what is going on. Is my wife in love with someone else and ready to move on now that she knows she is going to be watched and not have to freedom she used to have? Does she know she can no longer fool me and can not live with the fact she will not be able to have an affair without getting caught? I can tell she doesn't love me and that her priorities are somewhere else.
Or
Have I made my wife this way by asking her questions and accusing her of lieing to me?
Please help me to understand which one it is. We have a lifetime together.
Was it true love?
Or
True deception?
Please help me I need it.
From what you have read in my post what do you think?

The best way for you to get the answers you need is to blow up the affair whether it's Emotional or physical. If you know who it is and they are married tell his wife, tell his boss, go scorched earth and serve divorce papers maybe than she'll start to be honest with you but you are playing the classic pick me dance. Just to be honest and I mean no offense but every betrayed spouse could have written our own version of a fairy tale relationship that defied all odds and now to realize that your spouse has cheated and may no longer love you would shock the living crap out of any human being, that's why it is so damaging and painful. Use the advice you have been given like a VAR or gps monitor or you will never know what she has done, will do or wants to do.