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Newest Member: Stillconfused2022

Just Found Out :
Support, Please

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 HangingInThere205 (original poster new member #82374) posted at 3:38 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

I’ve been aware of my wife’s emotional and physical affair for the last year and a half. I confronted her about this twice before without giving the evidence I have since it involves massive snooping on my part, snooping which would make her lose her mind with anger at me. Finally, last month, I came out of the fog. The fog I was in was "she’ll come to her senses and stop this behavior, realizing the effect it could have on her job, life, and most importantly, our kids." When that fog lifted, I finally told other people about what I was going through, and they supported me when I talked about finally confronting her again, this time with the evidence I have. By her response to my offer to have a talk about our relationship, I thought she was going to be honest and say she didn’t want to be married any longer, something I know because she’s written about it privately.

But from the very start, I knew the conversation was going to go badly. I didn’t jump right in with the, "Are you having an affair with ____?" It was more on the status of our relationship, and she was blame shifting, gaslighting, etc. I do not do well with confrontation at all, but forged ahead. When I finally brought up the big questions about an affair, she went with the, "Where is this coming from?" and "You’re talking like you know something. What do you think you know?"...I couldn’t say the evidence I have, which is irrefutable. She was already angry at me, something I don’t handle well, crying, and being aggressive verbally. Plus, there’s still the whole "this is the woman I’ve been married to for almost twenty years" thought in my head where I remember the good times.

So I couldn’t close the deal. I couldn’t say, "I know you’re cheating, and here is how I know…"

The conversation turned to our relationship and how we can make things better at home, all of which I’m for, but very tellingly, there was no big blowup of a denial that one would expect from a spouse who’s been ‘wrongly accused’. But that’s because she wanted the subject changed, and even focused on me, not her. It all makes me feel like a coward, and that I’ll never get up the courage to fully confront her.

Has anyone else dragged out things like this? Was there a final straw or did you just continue to suffer? I’m just really down about it, as I hoped, this will do it. And I couldn’t speak my whole truth. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get over my fear and how to take the final step (confronting her with evidence)?

Thank you!

[This message edited by HangingInThere205 at 3:38 PM, Friday, November 11th]

posts: 6   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2022
id 8764739
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Truthaboveall ( new member #74680) posted at 3:51 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

How can you live like this allowing her to run over you. Find a lawyer, get advice, file, and have her served. Stop being a door mat for your wife to treat you as she pleases. Please understand I’m not trying to be mean when I say, find your manhood again. Wild animals attack when they smell blood, stop the bleeding and fight back. Wish you the best. Never ever accept being the backup plan. You sound like a very humble person, it is okay to say" NO MORE".

Tommyboy

posts: 19   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2020   ·   location: Mississippi
id 8764754
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 4:06 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

You’re being walked all over. Your WW cheated on you but you don’t want to rock the boat? If you don’t deal with this head on, and continue to rug sweep, as you are currently doing, she will continue to cheat on you with multiple people for the remainder of your M.

Think about it. It’s time to get angry and stand up for yourself. Your time as a doormat needs to end today.

posts: 565   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8764771
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:49 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

OK ... so you avoid confrontation, back off when someone gets angry at you, and don't take a stand when you want to. Those behaviors just don't work when you're dealing with infidelity.

In the face of infidelity, you need to find ways to be true to yourself and to act in your own best interests. You need to put yourself first. That requires you to change yourself - hard work, but eminently doable, and the payoff is excellent.

I'm sorry you're hurting so much. When one has been betrayed, lots of pain gets dumped on the betrayed partner, and it just plain hurts - and it hurts more and for longer than anyone can imagine.

I can see 2 ways out for you. One way is to find a good lawyer who will do the confrontation for you and do their best to protect your financial interests.

The 2nd is to get yourself a good IC to help you 1) see yourself as you really are - as good as everyone else - and 2) process the fear, shame, grief, and anger that come with being betrayed.

Right now, your unwillingness to assert yourself is adding more and more pain to your burden. Your healing requires you to find someone to take action on your behalf or learn to do it for yourself. Learning is a much better option, but it's also much slower.

Usually I write about the possibility of R. But R requires asserting yourself a lot, and it requires a WS who is remorseful. At this point, neither condition is in place.

My reco is to find a good IC, if you can. That path is longer, but it is better for you to learn to act in your best interests.

Respect has to be earned, and it's hard to respect a person who doesn't respect themself. IMO you have to find your self-respect. You have to find your strengths.

In addition to a good IC, I suggest reading https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/598080/the-simplified-180/.

If it makes sense to you - and it probably should - my reco is to implement it.

HangingIn, You're stronger than you think. My guess is that millions of us have recovered from being betrayed in their M, some of us by D, some by R. You can heal, too. The strengths are already in you - all you have to do is to find them.

*****

** Posting as a member **

For crying out loud, all of us, regardless of gender, need to take responsibility for and stand up for ourselves.

Triggering on HanginInThere's post may be because you need to deal with your doubts about your own 'manhood'. If you've triggered, figure out the reason and make appropriate changes.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:54 PM, Friday, November 11th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27869   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8764790
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 HangingInThere205 (original poster new member #82374) posted at 5:48 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

Thank you, sisoon, for the even-keeled and helpful response; I will likely re-read this post from you throughout the weekend. It definitely helps.

It's only been as of late that I've realized how I've been the victim of emotional abuse, which led me to speak out the other day. I guess I have more growing to do before I go all the way with this. However, I certainly hope that I never reach the point in my journey through this where I feel an appropriate response to someone else suffering is to 'man-up' or 'stop being a doormat.' I guess empathy doesn't come as naturally for others.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2022
id 8764794
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fareast ( Guide #61555) posted at 6:28 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

Sorry you find yourself here. Read and reread Sisoon’s guidance. It is excellence advice. It really isn’t about getting angry. It is learning a process to value yourself. If your marital relationship dynamic has been your WW being abusive and bullying, just telling you to man up will not help. Do get into IC. None of us is perfect. But you don’t deserve this treatment. Take stock of your positive qualities. Do it every day. I always advise to “value yourself”. Often easier said than done. Do all of this regardless of the outcome of your M. Realize that you are the prize and deserve a partner who loves and cherishes you. As for your WW you know enough. I would implement the 180 and see an attorney and at least learn your rights, and if it were me, file for D and let your attorney handle the communication with your WW. If she did become remorseful for her betrayal and demonstrates actions in accordance, you can always delay or stop the D process. Focus on you and taking care of your children. Think about life apart from her abuse, for you and your children. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 12:51 PM, November 11th (Friday)]

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3353   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8764798
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HouseOfPlane ( member #45739) posted at 8:40 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

But from the very start, I knew the conversation was going to go badly. I didn’t jump right in with the, "Are you having an affair with ____?"

Even that would have been wrong. The right approach would have been, "You are having an affair with ___."

Not a question. A statement. An exerting of control. A taking of charge.

You aren’t doing yourself a favor by not being forward. An important thing is you aren’t doing her a favor either. Think on that for a minute. You are helping nobody with your current approach.

We’ve all been there. All of us. I wish I could have taken this advice myself all those years ago.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 8:41 PM, Friday, November 11th]

DDay 1986: R'd, it was hard, hard work.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?”
― Mary Oliver

posts: 2858   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2014
id 8764816
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 10:13 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

I’m not going to tell you to "Man-Up…grow a pair…get some spine" or any other macho bullshit because, that would be cruel and poor advice. Your dilemma is more complex than that and Sisoon and HoP nail that pretty well.

If you read "The 180" tactic in the healing library this will give you a tool that will fit your situation well. You won’t be "confronting" with The 180. You do exactly the opposite. It’s a form of passive resistance, and it’s extremely effective and, your WW will be inclined to perhaps grow some respect for you in the process.

Your WW after 20 years thinks she has you pretty well figured out. If she truly loved you, she would see and appreciate your hidden strengths and obviously good character. Well, she’s gonna get a lesson if you follow The 180 and the advice you’re getting.

You won’t need to jump into any phone booths and don a cape and spangly spandex and come out kicking ass. You won’t be required to pull off some extreme metamorphosis. Just a little tweak here and there and you’ll have your agency and dignity.

You see, the secret to getting out of infidelity, is to simply emotionally retreat from the marriage like Kane of Kung Fu. "I will bend like a palm in a hurricane and survive the storm". The palm is not caving, it’s not giving up, it definitely has a spine, that it’s brilliantly using and protecting, that will allow it to be the only thing standing in the wake of the storm.

No need for aggressive confrontation. Just stay off her crazy train. Refuse to participate in her lies and ploys. Refuse to be a pawn. Passive resistance. Let her bullshit roll right off you, pass right through you. Maintain your boundaries with stoic dignified composure. It’ll drive her crazy.

When she comes at you with a counter assault, which is apart of DARVO, remember "Fury spends itself pretty quickly when there is no fury facing it".

Your WW seems to be a cake eater who has you at home holding down the domicile while she enjoys her side piece. She’s got you under her control and isn’t anticipating any resistance from you.

With The 180 you just start backing, progressively, out of her twisted little menagerie. You state your boundaries and expectations and if she fails to comply you just start progressively backing away.

Start with Baby steps towards the door and you’ll find your confidence improving, by degrees, with every step away from her.

If she comes chasing after you, titrate your retreat accordingly. If she doesn’t come chasing after you, your course towards the inevitable is set and absolutely clear. With a good lawyer you will be able to proceed with confidence.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:32 PM, Friday, November 11th]

posts: 990   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8764835
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 11:13 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

I have to be honest, I cringed while I read your post. It's like watching those skateboarding videos where people fall, I can't do it because my empathy response is so strong. I really feel for you. You are being abused.

It seems, on first read, you sound quite passive in how you approach things. You might want to read "No more mr nice guy".

Did you have a strong male presence in your life growing up? Do you have strong men in your life to support you? Remember, iron sharpens iron. Men need support too. We need to lean on one another in these tough situations.

If anything, get some good IC for yourself. Good luck.

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 2022!!!!

posts: 1359   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8764844
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annb ( member #22386) posted at 11:37 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

You don't have to show her the evidence. You could simply say you know she is having an affair with X.

When I found out about my WH affair I thought I'd give it a couple of days to sink in and come up with a game plan. Nope, several hours later, I calmly made him get up from his sound slumber and asked him who his AP was. He knew I had evidence, he didn't know how I obtained it and 17 years later he still doesn't know exactly how I found out. None of his damn business.

You are being abused in the worst way. Are you in counseling? Why would you want to live like this knowing your wife is out having sex another man? Your health mental health and probably physical health is suffering. If he's married, his wife is also in the dark about her pos husband.

My husband dropped a nuclear bomb on my marriage, my family, his job, our finances and just about every aspect of our lives. He received zero empathy from me.

When you decide to confront her again, start with a statement and allow her to lie herself into a corner. Typical of cheaters. House of Plane had some great advice.

posts: 11665   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8764846
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 11:46 PM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

Snooping in her diary because you felt something was wrong is nowhere near as bad as betraying your spouse by having an affair. They are on two completely different "wrong" scales, an order of magnitude different.

Tell her you know she is having an affair. Tell her some of what you know. If she asks you how you know that, you can either 1) disclose your snooping and tell her you had to confirm your gut feelings. She denied a problem but you knew there was one and had to confirm it. Or 2) tell her "how I know isn't important, the fact you betrayed me is the issue".

I like #1 better but #2 is a possible approach.

You need to get out of infidelity, stop rugsweeping and look after yourself. She'll be pissed you read her diary (or whatever you did) but who cares? She is sleeping with another man and/or in love with posom. That trumps everything you've ever done wrong in the marriage in a huge way.

posts: 696   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8764847
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 12:24 AM on Saturday, November 12th, 2022

Something very important I forgot to mention:

Nice work on your investigation. It’s very difficult to get "irrefutable evidence".

It takes "a spine" to get off your ass, to take the initiative and execute an investigation.

Many BSs chose to rug sweep, to bury their heads in the sand, embrace denial.

You did exactly the opposite. You pulled off an aggressive risqué successful investigation.

I think you under estimate yourself sir.

posts: 990   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8764852
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SicTransitGloria ( new member #79621) posted at 12:57 AM on Saturday, November 12th, 2022

HangingInThere205,

I hope you keep working on yourself to gain the fortitude to do what you need to do to end the abuse you recognize you are receiving from your wife. Some quick thoughts:

I actually think it is a good thing that you weren't able to divulge the source of your information. You don't realize it, but this is a powerful card you have in your pocket. She doesn't know if you snooped in her diary, saw texts flash on her phone, unlocked her phone, had someone witness her and tell you, saw with your own eyes, hired a PI, etc.

Speaking of evidence. Stop feeling bad about snooping. You did what you had to do for your own sanity, and you were proven right. Also, be sure to save multiple copies of your evidence and store them somewhere safe and offsite (like a USB drive in a safe deposit box or a brand new email account with a password she could never guess). Once she knows you are "serious" (if she hasn't already) she will start covering her tracks by deleting, changing passwords, locking things away, etc. She might even try to delete evidence from your phone.

My recommendation, besides getting individual counseling, is to stop waiting for her to admit and stop trying to win a confrontation. It's clear that you currently do not handle it well when your wife cries and verbally attacks you--and she knows this and uses against you. Stop asking questions of her or trying to get her to confess. In your case, I suggest you just state your truth: "I know you are having an affair with ____ [Don't divulge anything more]. How I know isn't important or up for debate. My sources [state it plural] of evidence leave no doubt. Whether you choose to question or deny is not my concern. I am not here to have a conversation. I just needed to say it to you, because I've known for a long time, and asking you to admit to what I already know has only caused me harm. So I am stopping. How you choose to react from here on out is your choice, and I will see all of it. Again, this isn't a conversation. If you have anything to say, write it down and I will pick it up tomorrow."

Then leave. Do not sleep in the same room. Go to some of the friends whom you've already confided in about your wife's affair. This first step is about unburdening yourself of this weight and changing the previous dynamics where you've been trying to make your wife do and say things she has no interest in.

When you are ready, you can look through this website for ways to lay out to your wife what needs to happen next. Bigger often shares a nice readymade approach/script that I like: https://survivinginfidelity.com/forums/?tid=659693&ap=1#mid8764212. I like that in this approach, you are not trying to force anything from your wife and explicitly say she is free to do as she chooses. But you also inform her that you have firm actions/boundaries you will take/enforce for yourself as a result of her actions.


Good luck, man.

posts: 11   ·   registered: Nov. 23rd, 2021
id 8764857
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Never2late ( member #79079) posted at 3:16 AM on Saturday, November 12th, 2022

Empathy and compassion are important and useful at the right times. Honestly, you need to stand up for yourself. You are the victim here. It starts with you.

posts: 70   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8764863
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Tren0R201 ( member #39633) posted at 8:34 AM on Saturday, November 12th, 2022

certainly hope that I never reach the point in my journey through this where I feel an appropriate response to someone else suffering is to 'man-up' or 'stop being a doormat.' I guess empathy doesn't come as naturally for others.

Now you see, if you had used that passive aggressiveness and stood up to your wife you might have gotten somewhere.

You asked for advice.

Most will not be of your liking, but it's never from a bad place.

You can't nice your wife back, at some point you both will need to confront the hard truth which might be difficult considering your wife's obstinance and gaslighting by using her anger to pacify you into submission.

At this point it's less about finding the guts to confront and more about you starting to work on yourself, to free yourself of the codependency and being ready to walk away if need be.

posts: 1784   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2013
id 8764876
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 HangingInThere205 (original poster new member #82374) posted at 3:51 PM on Monday, November 14th, 2022

Hi everyone...

First, I want to thank everyone for their honest and really helpful responses. I'm a slow processor, so I re-read all of this today and took notes I will reread again often.

Secondly, a quick apology for my defensive early response to others. I understand people are just trying to help. I guess I got triggered by the accusation I was being weak. I know on some level I am being weak.

Over the weekend, I had full access to my wife's journal, and realized a few things I didn't know before:

1. The relationship they have is one-sided, mostly. Her journals, especially of late, are about the feelings she has--she is in love with him--and not knowing what his feelings are. She desperately wants to talk to him about this, but doesn't out of fear that he'll pull back and their great work relationship/collaboration will die as a result.

2. Physically, there's very little, if anything going on.

3. She's stuck in this 'do I somehow force myself to fall out of love with 'other person' and fall back in love with my husband?' loop. To her on some level it's a does she settle for me who is safe and comfortable and good OR do I chase the 'ooey-gooey love' which she realizes is silly and unrealistic, but that she wants with him or with whomever it happens with.

An emotional affair is just as bad a physical affair. I need to remind myself of that. Also, I shouldn't be anyone's second choice.

It all has me feeling like shit, and realizing just how all of 'this' has affected me: my personality, my actions, my happiness. The only place where I feel I'm doing well is with my kids because I focus so hard on being a good father to my four kids (all under 17). But I still struggle with the kids aspect of this, as I worry how it'll all affect them.

Still, I know this cannot continue for my own mental and physical health.

So thanks again for your responses, and obviously if this sparks any thoughts from you, I'd love to hear them. All are appreciated.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2022
id 8765106
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:27 PM on Monday, November 14th, 2022

So what now, Hanging?

I can believe you feel like crap right now - your W is not only IL with om; she's also continuing to lie to you about it.

If you let fear rule you, you're likely to keep feeling worse and worse. What do you need to do to confront clearly? What do you need to do to set a boundary that will protect you from further hurt?

IOW, you say your W is in a loop between staying IL with om or falling back in love with you? What will enable you to give her a choice between om and you, right now and forever? What will enable you to decide if you can ever trust her if she chooses you?

Recovering from infidelity usually requires the BS to risk losing the M to rebuild it. It looks like you're exactly in that position. What will enable you to recognize that and act on your recognition?

None of this is easy, Hanging. If you don't confront, your W may come back, but if she does, she's vulnerable to this in the future. Please - don't do that to yourself or her. If you confront, you're doing a service to both of you.

Again, if you can't do that now, so be it - but I urge you take action to get capable of confronting ASAP. IMO, it's the best way to process the grief, fear, anger and shame out of your body and find joy again.

*****

Now you see, if you had used that passive aggressiveness....

Gently, passive-aggressiveness is exactly the wrong approach in recovering from infidelity.

If you read the stories of people who have healed from being betrayed, you read stories of people who thought straight, talked straight, and acted straight. They decided what they wanted and took actions that had the highest likelihood of getting what they wanted.

One thing that's clear abut infidelity is that communications between WS and BS broke down. The best way to change that is to be as clear as possible in restarting communications. The BS needs to think, talk, and act in terms of what they want, what they will do, what they will accept from others.

Passive-aggressiveness is one of the best ways to keep communications unclear. Go for assertiveness, not passive-aggressiveness, if you want to heal.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:29 PM, Monday, November 14th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27869   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8765128
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lrpprl ( new member #80538) posted at 7:22 PM on Monday, November 14th, 2022

^^^^^^^^

Sisoon hit the nail squarely on the head. Read his post above over and over.

A year and one-half of knowing an affair was ongoing and doing nothing about it is really hard for me to wrap my head around. Over the years others have accused me of having a "strong personality", whatever that means. I know that when I was in the military, and in other situations, I have been afraid. I had to force myself to get out of my head to take action. Since our personalities are totally different I literally can't imagine what you are feeling or thinking.

My only suggestion is to Please, Please read the book, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Strictly from what I read from your posts, this book would be very beneficial to you.

My post might seem a little harsh to you, but I mean it in the very best way I can. I am really rooting for you and your children.

posts: 29   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8765137
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justanotherperson ( new member #82218) posted at 9:40 PM on Monday, November 14th, 2022

Sorry you are here.

You have to take into account that written words do not always pass the impression one wanted them to pass. So take the words as "info" if you can. Use what suits and leave the rest if you may.

I’ve been aware of my wife’s emotional and physical affair for the last year and a half. I confronted her about this twice before without giving the evidence I have since it involves massive snooping on my part, snooping which would make her lose her mind with anger at me.

You do realise the massive amount of betrayal and disrespect your WW as put you into? Enough for you to not be a least concerned about her reaction when you confront her about the shit sandwich she is feeding you for a long time.

which would make her lose her mind with anger at me

YOU are the one intitled to behave like this upon discovery of such a massive betrayal. Not her. She DISRESPECTED YOU MASSIVELY. READ this words as many times as it takes for you to realize what I´m saying here. Get those FACTS straight to your core. You are not a pushover. You are not lesser than her. NEVER.

Already much has been said about what you need to do to free yourself from this situation. I will just add that you can´t see your wife as you used to. Unfortunately the wife you thought you had is no more. She disrespected you. She does not care for your well being. You have to see her for what she IS. A cheater who did not give a flying frickle about you when she decided to act upon her desires.

Stand STRONG. Get out of that mess. Stand YOUR ground. You deserve to be RESPECTED. You deserve to be CONSIDERED. You deserve to be WELL TREATED. No more "pick me dancing". You deserve BETTER than that.

In the end you will be ok.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 9:44 PM, Monday, November 14th]

"It can't rain all the time."

posts: 50   ·   registered: Oct. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: O´Porto
id 8765156
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DobleTraicion ( member #78414) posted at 11:34 PM on Monday, November 14th, 2022

Has anyone else dragged out things like this? Was there a final straw or did you just continue to suffer?

I did. I drew it out, minimized, rugswept and it did terrible terrible damage to my psyche. I was much younger and didnt have a place like this to draw wisdom from, sure wish I had. I can also tell you that even if I had had a place like SI, the probability is very high it would have taken more than a couple of 2x4's to get me off my @ss. Dont be me.

Theres so much great cumulative wisdom here. One of the nuggets Ive heard that Id encourage you to mull over is from Bigger. He has posted differing version of this guidance on more than one occasion. Ill paraphrase, "Mrs HangingInThere205. I know about you and xyz. Im not here to debate the particulars. Listen, I want you to be happy. If being with xyz does that for you, then please talk with him, message him, meet with him,live with him if thats what you want....just not as my wife. Think it over and let me know what you decide by (day and time),so that I can take the needed steps for my own future."

And walk away.

One things for sure, your current course is not sustainable and 1.5 years is wayyyyyy to d@mn long.

Strength and fortitude to you sir to do what must be done for yourself and your family.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 11:36 PM, Monday, November 14th]

"You'd figure that in modern times, people wouldn't feel the need to get married if they didn't agree with the agenda"

~ lascarx

posts: 92   ·   registered: Mar. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: South
id 8765166
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