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Divorce/Separation :
I don't think this is forgivable.....

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 Mari104 (original poster member #63422) posted at 6:36 PM on Thursday, September 22nd, 2022

I am not sure if this is the correct forum to post this on. Sorry in advance if it is not.

I have always been one to believe that everything was forgivable to a certain degree. My therapist always says that you forgive someone for yourself, not for them. That forgiving them takes away the power they/the situation has over you. I understand that way of thinking. Sounds very logical. But, I reached a point that I do not think I will ever be able to forgive my XWH for this.

To start off, I am officially divorced. (As of September 12th) I was going to come on here and talk about how relieved I was and how well things turned out for me in the divorce. How so much has changed since DD on 10/14/17, but how so much has not changed. How I represented myself (with the direction of one of my bosses) and am so incredibly proud of myself for how much I fought for myself and my kids. How he had a great family law attorney representing him and I did it on my own. I will do that soon. I will come on here and give you all the details. Promise. But first, I feel like there is something A LOT more important I need to share with you all.

This past summer, I took my kids to Jamaica. If some of you remember, I picked Jamaica because it was the place my XWH promised the kids and I he would take us, while he was trying to win us all back with his fake ass promises. Well…..he ended up doing the same crap to us, yet again, and thought it was ok to take his mistress there….then come home with souvenirs for my kids, like it was no big deal. mad My daughter was so heartbroken. Anyway…..I took them and we had an amazing time. It was my favorite vacation with my kids to date.

Those that have been following my story, also know that I had a niece that was battling cancer for the last 8 years. sad She was 11 years old. (She is my XWH’s only brother’s daughter) I remain very close to his side of the family. They have all been amazing to me and he barely speaks to them. He continues to isolate himself from everyone because they will not support what he has done and want nothing to do with the OW. In the beginning of this year, we received the devastating news that our niece was getting worse and her doctors told us there were no further treatment plans available that she qualified for. So in January, his brother called my XWH and told him. He asked that he step up and contact his niece/goddaughter more. She missed him and needed him. That we were not being given much hope and did not know how much time we had with her. (Quick background……there was always a very special bond between my niece and my XWH. Before the A, we both spent a lot of time with his family. My nieces and our kids are very close. She really did love him very much. After the A, he basically neglected everyone, including the kids. Even after he stopped being around the family and never visited her, she still loved him and asked for him to come see her.) Nothing really changed after his brother called him. I believe he texted her a couple of times. In May, she got much worse. She began having issues breathing and needed an oxygen tank almost 24/7. My sister-in-law made the decision to call my XWH again and tell him she was getting even worse and he needed to step up. She told him that his niece would cry because he never visited her or communicated. She felt like he didn’t care.

We created a bucket list with her and spent the summer doing as much as we could with her. My niece had a heart of gold. Her dream was to open up a shelter for children so they had a place to go and feel safe. Her last project was developing a "backpack project" where she teamed up with her yoga instructor and collected backpacks and school supplies for children in need. She struggled every day just to do things we take for granted…..eat, breathe, live. Yet, she found the strength to help others. We lost her on August 24th. crying My children and I were literally in flight back from Jamaica when she took her last breathe. When our plane landed, I turned on my phone and saw the multiple text messages and voicemails from our family. I was devastated, but managed to hold it together for my kids until we got to my in-laws to tell them. I still do not know how I did not lose it on the plane or in the airport. I just didn't want to tell my children in an airport that they had just lost their cousin. My daughter and her were best friends. She is beyond heartbroken. crying

It has been almost 1 month and it still seems surreal that she is gone. This last month has been extremely difficult for so many reasons. After she passed, I was told by my brother-in-law and sister-in-law that my X never made any effort to be there for their daughter or them. Even after their phone calls. He went to visit her once in May and that was it. She passed away in August….and he hadn’t seen her since May. mad She would try to Facetime him sometimes and he wouldn’t pick up. mad He would sometimes take days to call her back. mad He would ignore text messages. mad Towards the end, she stopped trying because she really was so hurt by him. The last time he tried calling her back days after she had called him, she didn’t even want to pick up anymore. She just started crying. crying

The morning after she passed, by SIL and BIL Facetimed me. I had reached out to them the night before and told them when they were ready to talk to me, I was there for whatever they needed. I was also very concerned about their younger daughter and wanted to know how she was doing as well. They both began venting and telling me the details of what had happened between my X and their daughter. I knew they had both called him and knew he wasn’t being the best at supporting them. But I was not aware of the extent. I honestly thought he was at least picking up calls or responding to messages. I even thought that he had gone to visit her a few times this summer. I just never asked because it was a very sore subject for all of us. I honestly never knew how to even bring it up to them when we were together and I certainly was not going to ask my niece if her uncle was reaching out to her. I can’t even describe how I felt when they gave me the details. I couldn’t even breathe I was so angry.

Gets worse……as I am Facetiming them, my X texts his brother telling him he wants to stop by their house. My BIL responds "I am not ready for visitors". My X responds "I am not a visitor, I am your brother"……and my BIL ignores it. My BIL said "He is not my brother, he is a visitor." They really were very angry at him and were not ready to speak to him. They needed time and that should have been respected. They had just lost their child and were trying to keep it together for their younger daughter. Well….my X did not care. He showed up at his parents crying and playing victim about how he can’t believe she was gone and then drove to his brother’s house. My SIL and BIL were civil enough to let him in and speak to him calmly. They did not scream. My BIL told him that his daughter would not want him to scream, even though he was extremely angry at him. They basically told him that they do not need him around. Their daughter needed him and he choose not to be around. They forgave him, but are done. Of course…..he tried to speak in the mist of it and my SIL cut him off and told him that "He was in no position to speak at all. He was going to sit here and listen." Apparently, he was trying to make excuses that the family had "cut him off and he was uncomfortable around everyone." My BIL told my XWH " You are not understanding the extent of what you did to my child. She was dying and you were not there for her when she needed you most. She was your niece and your godchild. You are my only ‘brother’ and you choose to not be there for any of us. My kid was dying and you never checked in to see how I was doing. How my wife was doing. How my younger daughter was doing. How your children were handling their cousin dying. I have to do something that no parent should ever have to do. I have to bury my child and after years of you neglecting us all, now you want to play hero and be here. MY CHILD DIED THINKING YOU DIDN’T LOVE HER. As a parent, I don’t see myself recovering from this. You can’t go back and make things right with her because she is gone. I just hope you don’t continue to do this crap to your children because you are blessed. You have 2 healthy, beautiful children. My niece and nephew are amazing." He started crying when he left. Then he hugged his brother and said "Sorry…..one day when I get the chance, I will tell you about my problems" mad YEP…..you read that right! I seriously couldn’t make this crap up if I tried.

So my X of course attended the arrangements. He sat there crying. He apparently told his parents that his brother was very harsh on him and should not have said the things he did. He was "offended." rolleyes Had a bunch of co-workers and "higher-ups" come. rolleyes Acted as if he had been there all this time and was on great terms with all of us. rolleyes He really put on a show! Like he had been there for his brother all this time. Meanwhile, he hadn’t seen our niece since MAY!

Needless to say…..services were done and he is basically back to his old self. Our son had his first soccer game this past weekend and he didn’t show up. (Hasn’t been to a game in more than 1 ½ years.) I honestly thought he was going to begin showing up because he asked me about his games and when they were going to post them in the app during the days were saw each other for the services. (Even though he has the same access to the app that I do.) Why even ask if you are not going to go? Barely communicates. School started…..has never even asked anything related to our kids’ teachers, school, etc. Same crap. I honestly don’t expect anything different from him. Even after the show he put on at the services. We all knew it was an act and short-lived.

I was getting use to the way I felt about him. No expectations. Feeling indifferent. He got no overnights in the divorce. Only got 2-3 hours a week with our son. He didn’t fight me for more time. Tried to fight me on the alimony and child support....but no extra time with his kids. He clearly doesn't want the responsibility of being a father and wants to be a father only when it is convenient for him. Now, he gets to do whatever he wants and be with his mistress, living a carefree life. And honestly, I really don't care about that anymore. At least my children get a stable life with me. I really was getting use to our new lives. BUT…..after I found out he was ignoring our niece’s calls and making no effort to be there for her, something in me changed. Yes, he has done this to our kids and neglected them. But this was a child that was dying. She spent 8 years of her 11 year life fighting for her life. crying I am devastated. I don’t even want to see him anymore. EVER. My SIL told me that she literally feels repulsed being in his presence and I feel the same exact way. I can’t even stomach him anymore. Who behaves this way? How could someone live with themselves doing this to a child? I don‘t think this is something I can forgive him for. Worst part is….I have to raise my children with this man. sad I need to figure out a way to live knowing my kids’ father is inhuman and this breaks my heart in so many ways. sad

[This message edited by Mari104 at 7:05 PM, Thursday, September 22nd]

posts: 163   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2018
id 8756558
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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 7:46 PM on Thursday, September 22nd, 2022

This story is heartbreaking. He really was abducted by aliens. The level of self-absorbed is mind-blowing.

It’s time to go NC about anything other then the true kid stuff. No more being nice and considerate. Just be plain and boring and keep it on your kids. He deserves no more of your brain space.

Take care of you and your littles, and I am glad you are able to support your BIL and his family. You are a rockstar and have a good heart.

Me: BS 55 (49 on d-day)Him: WH. 64. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 4987   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8756565
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leafields ( member #63517) posted at 10:12 PM on Thursday, September 22nd, 2022

So sorry for the loss of your beautiful niece. She sounds like a wonderful human being with a loving, giving heart.

Your XWH on the other hand - I have no words. What a colossal asshat!

Your kids will know that you support them, and realize they can't depend on him.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 1334   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8756575
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Hippo16 ( member #52440) posted at 11:12 PM on Thursday, September 22nd, 2022

You quantified him some time ago - in a much nicer choice of words than most would use.

But he did this to himself and now wants everyone’s support. It just doesn’t work that way.


You seem to be doing quite well now - with a good handle on everything.


I'm so sorry that your children don't have a "dad" - I know the feeling weil. I was raised by "mother" and Grandmothers.

Not Just Friends

posts: 658   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2016   ·   location: OBX
id 8756586
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 2:26 AM on Friday, September 23rd, 2022

Fuck me WHAT AN ABSOLUTE FARKING ASSHOLE....... I have NO words. If there was ever anyone in need of a sparta kick in the dick, he is top contender.

Mari I am so very sorry for your loss - your niece sounds like she was an amazing human! Sending you all the hugs and good juju right now for you and your sweet kiddos and your inlaws!

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

posts: 3571   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8756611
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 1:45 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2022

Hi Mari, I’ve followed your story as our ddays were closed together back in 2017.

You are right, some things are unforgivable and I would not even give forgiveness of this asshole another thought. I know forgiveness is for yourself but I would feel guilty to have forgiven such a jerk given the facts.

I’m so happy to hear you are in a great place and his family is still surrounding you with love. Let him burn in hell, he deserves it!

I cannot believe he had the audacity to go to his brother when he just lost his child and tried to get compassion for HIS problems and justify somehow that he abandoned his dying niece. This is beyond self centred. This jerk does not yet have a definition on the personality disorder spectrum.

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1561   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Europe
id 8756681
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SBB ( member #35229) posted at 3:30 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2022

Someone here posted about ‘betrayals beyond infidelity’ and how whilst we can reach a place of acceptance or forgiveness about the infidelity (I rarely even think about it these days), these ‘betrayals beyond infidelity’ are something else entirely.

They’re often things they do to the people we love. In my case it’s my kids. I’ll never forgive some of the unnecessary trauma he has put them through. Never.

Your story is heartbreaking. Unimaginable. I’m so sorry for your loss.

You’re right. Unforgivable.

I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

posts: 6062   ·   registered: Apr. 4th, 2012   ·   location: Australia
id 8756744
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Jameson1977 ( member #54177) posted at 4:52 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2022

Unbelievable, just unbelievable. How someone can do this to a helpless child that is dying is beyond me. This is so so low. I’m so sorry for your family. If this were my brother, I wouldn’t have a brother after this, I’d cut him from my life forever, completely unforgivable.

posts: 800   ·   registered: Jul. 16th, 2016
id 8756772
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barcher144 ( member #54935) posted at 5:38 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2022

I am sorry for all that you, your family, and his family have gone through. It's just awful.

My therapist always says that you forgive someone for yourself, not for them.

I agree with this 100%. You need to (and you will) forgive your ex for all of this. That doesn't mean that you'll ever trust him again. That doesn't mean that you will think any better of him in the future. That means that you will no longer actively despise him... that means that you'll no longer be angry at him. You'll be mostly indifferent, kind of like how you would treat a toxic waste dump. You'll know to avoid it because it's dangerous and it will always be dangerous... but he'll just become part of the landscape in the background of your life.

In the sense that hate is not the opposite of love, you'll stop hating him eventually... and you'll drift towards indifference. And you'll do that because that's what is best for you.

I wish you peace and happiness.

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5307   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8756780
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 8:51 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2022

I’m So sorry for your loss and that your niece was so distraught over her godfather’s indifference.

I think you see the pattern with the XH and hope that you can protect your children from his indifference and lack of attention.

Don’t let him damage another child’s life.

And find a way to celebrate your precious niece.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12535   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8756818
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 11:08 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2022

I'm so sorry for the loss of your dear niece. I agree this is an unforgivable offense and he deserves to be cut off from his family after something as diabolical as this is.

fBS/fWS(me):49 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:51 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
DD(19) DS(16)
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014
Divorcing

posts: 8339   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8756831
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 5:25 AM on Sunday, September 25th, 2022

T/j. Barcher, I am going to disagree with you. She does not have to forgive him. None of them do. If I could figure out how to cut and paste I would send a message I posted this afternoon. It is about narcissism. I have no training in personality disorders so I don’t know if this man fits the definition but something is missing in him.

The behaviors towards you, your children, his niece and brother reeks of entitlement. His entire acting was about being seen by the public as a good guy. His entire focus is on himself.

I think the best way to describe him is to assume he is a hologram. There is nothing there.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3498   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8756962
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 Mari104 (original poster member #63422) posted at 2:32 AM on Wednesday, October 5th, 2022

Thank you all so much for your support. This past month has been incredibly difficult. The death of my niece has left me so numb. I am just trying my best to take things one day at a time.

As far as my XWH…he is the same ass. No changes. Same crap as always. I just can’t stop being angry at everything he has done. It is taking a toll on me. I am so tired of his fake image and how he portrays himself to be at work and in public. I know many of his co-workers know the truth and think he is a self-centered ass. Especially since the OW works at the same company still. But I have heard from people that he is portraying me to be the reason our daughter doesn’t want a relationship with him. That I "twisted" things around to my own benefit and "put her in the middle". I don’t even understand how he comes up with this crap after everything I have done to try and help him.

Let’s be real here….he told our child she was one of the reasons he left, body shamed her, neglected her so many times, etc. How in the world is the way she now feels my fault? He is spreading lies to save his image and after what he did to my kids and now my niece and our entire family, I just can’t take it anymore.

As many of you know, he has spent the last few years caring more about his career and trying to get that GM position then his own family. (A position he still does not have, BTW). He continues to do this even though his relationship with our children is still in shambles. I am seriously close to sending an anonymous letter to the owners of the company and telling them a lot of what he has done. Specifically, what he did to our niece and the fact that he hadn’t seen her since May. Tell them how he treated his own children. He portrayed himself to be this involved uncle during her services. Had his bosses and a bunch of co-workers all there and we all kept our mouths shut to keep the peace. Meanwhile, he wasn’t around for her when she needed him the most. I do not even know if they are aware of the inappropriate relationship he had with the coworker who is still a current employee at their company and was also married at the time. I am sure they are both trying desperately to paint a very different picture of what really happened. He put my kids and I through absolute HELL for years, all while he would go out and treat other people that didn’t know the truth like royalty. I just feel like they should know the truth about him and they can do whatever they chose with it. They may not even care….but from what I heard, they were very sympathetic about my niece and even sent out an email to the entire company regarding him and the loss of his niece. How he is a valued employee and everyone was feeling the loss with him.

I am sorry….I am probably rambling on here. I am just SO angry. mad

Any thoughts on me sending the anonymous letter?

[This message edited by Mari104 at 2:35 AM, Wednesday, October 5th]

posts: 163   ·   registered: Apr. 12th, 2018
id 8758252
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