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Newest Member: Stark

Just Found Out :
Married for 13 years, together for 17. It's over but I'm still angry

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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 3:13 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

I agree with what others have said. You’re not standing before a judge accusing her. You are simply accepting that whatever has gone wrong in your marriage you don’t want it anymore. That’s really all you need to know. Trying to get all the little details is not going to get you anywhere except frustrated. Get to a lawyer, get it started and end the marriage. You will breath a lot deeper and you’ll sleep a lot better once this is all over.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3500   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8755379
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 3:26 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

About the children, yeah, everybody here tells me that I have to tell them. I guess that is what I have to do.

You don't "have to" do anything that makes you uncomfortable. You're in the process of a divorce and the bottom line is that making a point to tell the children that their mother is a cheater could be viewed by the court as parental alienation. You can't back up your claim in court because you can't prove definitively that an affair has taken place, and yeah.. I agree, you've got a veritable stampede of horses going on, but still, there's no way to know what kind of fallout there would be at this particular juncture. It might be better to wait rather than take the chance that your family court judge is on his/her third marriage because they don't think cheating is all that bad.

Waiting isn't lying. Right now, you only know what you know. As events unfold and as the children gain maturity, I do agree that it's best when the age appropriate truth is made available so that they're not filling in on their own.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5967   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8755380
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NotInMyLife ( member #67728) posted at 4:35 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Waiting leaves a vacuum that either the children or the wife will fill with a different narrative. Once that narrative has been established in their minds, it will be very difficult to change it. The last thing they need to believe is that their father didn't want to be there anymore and left the home so mom moved in someone who cared more about her and them. That's just what will happen if he doesn't step up now, especially if he ends up letting his wife stay in house with this bogus loan (which I think is a bad idea). His wife has already integrated her boyfriend into their lives, there is no advantage whatsoever to waiting to let that narrative crystalize. The children need to be informed, in an age appropriate way, that their mother has decided she would rather be with her friend, not because their father wanted to leave but because that's what she wanted.

Telling the truth now in now way constitutes parental alienation.

[This message edited by NotInMyLife at 4:55 PM, Thursday, September 15th]

posts: 167   ·   registered: Nov. 3rd, 2018
id 8755395
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Confused282 ( member #79680) posted at 5:12 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

I second TEA in waiting to tell the kids until things are finalized.

Also sell the house.

It would always make your skin crawl even more to show up at your old house during swaps.

Your house, your family, your pool, your dog the only thing different is you are swapped out for him.

A little selfishness is ok.

posts: 52   ·   registered: Dec. 16th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8755398
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 5:13 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Damn @Pesto, did your WW at least apologize to you for the way she treated you these past 18 months?

This situation sucks.... We are all pulling for you

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:15 PM, Thursday, September 15th]

posts: 420   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8755399
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 6:42 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Telling the truth now in now way constitutes parental alienation.

Does he have the truth though?.. provable truth that would stand up in court? You can sue someone for slander or libel if you have damages, and you'll win too if they can't prove the inarguable truth of their claims. So, for right now, sure, he can go to the kids and say he felt alienated by how much attention their mother was paying to another man or any restatement of the actual facts he's shared here, but if he says to them that she was having an adulterous affair, it's on him to prove it should his WW decide to take it into court.

At this stage, it's just prudence to behave as if a family court judge is always listening in.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 6:44 PM, Thursday, September 15th]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5967   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8755405
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:56 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Do faithful wives regularly swim with naked men? Do they buy gifts for the same male friend? Do they lie to their husbands,and say they're with a female friend,when they're actually out with the same male friend? Do they stay at the same naked friend's house, until the wee hours of the morning? Do they choose their relationship with the same male friend,over their marriage?


Does one have to see sex to know there is an affair? What about emotional affairs? Do they just not count in this situation?

When does common sense come into play?

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:00 PM, Thursday, September 15th]

posts: 4675   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8755407
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NotInMyLife ( member #67728) posted at 7:56 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

The truth is that their mother doesn't want to be a wife to their father and has consistently shown that she prefers to be with someone else. Dealing with the children is not about whether adultery can be proved in court, it's about being honest with them about what is going on in their family. If he waits until the divorce is final, the story that he just wanted out will already be part of their belief.

Also, the fact that the financial advisor came up with a way for wife to remain in the house doesn't mean it is an appropriate way forward in this case.

[This message edited by NotInMyLife at 7:58 PM, Thursday, September 15th]

posts: 167   ·   registered: Nov. 3rd, 2018
id 8755415
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 8:05 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Yeahno, Pesto's WW should not get to stay in the home. Financials notwithstanding. If anyone should be able to, it is Pesto, if that is what he wants that is...

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:07 PM, Thursday, September 15th]

posts: 420   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8755418
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LegsWideShut ( new member #80302) posted at 9:25 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

I'm glad you awoke to what clearly has to be an affair. I'm also glad you know exactly how you want to move forward, its never always easy to deal with the emotional hit we all take when we find out.
While I can say that those who say you don't have "proof" she's having an affair, are right you dont have "concrete" proof but.....the old "if it walks like a duck" comes into play here.
I can't believe the outright disrespect she showed you by bringing him into your home, inserting him into your family life, him swimming naked with her (and yes if he just took off his clothes and jumped in with you home, she's seen him that way before). I would go with her just short of literally rubbing your nose in it.
Stay strong, do whats best for you and let her live with the fallout. Its all on her as she clearly checked out of your marriage 1 1/2 ago.

posts: 18   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2022   ·   location: New England
id 8755431
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 11:35 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

You don't "have to" do anything that makes you uncomfortable. You're in the process of a divorce and the bottom line is that making a point to tell the children that their mother is a cheater could be viewed by the court as parental alienation. You can't back up your claim in court because you can't prove definitively that an affair has taken place, and yeah.. I agree, you've got a veritable stampede of horses going on, but still, there's no way to know what kind of fallout there would be at this particular juncture. It might be better to wait rather than take the chance that your family court judge is on his/her third marriage because they don't think cheating is all that bad.

Waiting isn't lying. Right now, you only know what you know. As events unfold and as the children gain maturity, I do agree that it's best when the age appropriate truth is made available so that they're not filling in on their own.

Thanks! You are the first that doesn't tell me to tell the kids right now. I would like to wait and see how stuff unfolds. The kids have seen him ofcourse, but I'm very sure they haven't seen them do anything. My kids tell me everything. They know I listen to everything they tell me, so the could never keep something like that a secret. Just today, I picked up my son from afterschool daycare. He told me (and I didn't ask him anything about this) that when his mom brought him to school, she saw her father. I asked, "your grandfather was at school?" which would have been weird, because they live at least 1,5 hour drive away. And he said "No, her father". I told him that her father is the one that lives on a farm, did he see him. He said "No, it was a grandfather type of man that I have never seen, but mom was very happy to see him". I asked "Oh, how did you know that?" And he said "Well, they hugged". I didn't ask beyond that. It's probably someone she knows from that city where my son goes to school. She grew up there and a lot of distant-relatives we never saw live there. Even though my son is gifted, because of his autism he has a hard time remembering faces of people he doesn't see that often. But I'm telling this more to illustrate that my kids (my daughter does this too) tell me everything they do, see and hear. So if she brings a new guy into the house, they will tell me straight away.

I also have a good relation with my neighbours. I used to think they tolerated me because they liked my wife. But when I told them about everything that went down here, they already had their suspicions about him, being here so often and when they heard the whole story, they were flabbergasted. They said that if he were to move in here with her, they would not let him in their circle, and I would always be welcome even when I move away. I'm sure they will tell me when and how often he comes here.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755443
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 11:46 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

I second TEA in waiting to tell the kids until things are finalized.

Also sell the house.

It would always make your skin crawl even more to show up at your old house during swaps.

Your house, your family, your pool, your dog the only thing different is you are swapped out for him.

A little selfishness is ok.

Thanks, that helps. About selling the house, I have told her I'm not going to help her finance anything, especially something this dodgy. She gave me a weird look and said "Well, I have other people I can ask to help me". To which I think she referred to him.
Like this is one of the things I was also worried about. That when I give her that loan, that he will be the one paying it back.

I mean, if she can finance it, and I'm not in any way responsible or financially connected to her anymore, there isn't much I can do against that. If I try to block that, it will turn into a 'vechtscheiding', which is going to hurt the kids, cost me a lot of money and she will probably get what she wanted anyway, with a risk of her turning the kids against me. She hasn't done anything like that yet, and I would like to keep it that way. If she buys the house, I don't have to pay for real estate agents, which cost waay more than they should. I will end up with more if I don't have to sell it to someone else. It also means I can move out months earlier.

I will buy a new house, have the kids design their own rooms, and make it a safe place they will love.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755444
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 11:48 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Damn @Pesto, did your WW at least apologize to you for the way she treated you these past 18 months?

This situation sucks.... We are all pulling for you

Yes, even though she never admitted to physically cheating, she realised that she did make me go through hell in the past 18 months and she did apologize for that. It's something.

Thanks for your kind words! I appreciate it more than I can express with words.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755445
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 12:08 AM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

I would like to wait and see how stuff unfolds.

I think that's smart because it's still a developing story in a lot of ways. There are some answers that you just don't have yet, and that's okay because just like the example you posted above, it's more of a continuing dialogue where you talk as things become pertinent.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are some people who mislead their kids with platitudes while trying to protect them, and you don't want to go that route either. Speaking as an adult child of cheating parents, kids need to be able to count on somebody not to bullshit them, and as they grow, understanding the reality of how relationships work prepares them for their own. Right now though, you just don't have all the answers to give yet. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. But that doesn't mean you're obliged to get into a huge, protracted, bare-knuckles brawl with your STBX (and the kids in the middle) about ducks. It's enough that YOU know what you know and that you're there to answer any questions your kids have when they have them. That's not the same as telling lies about married people "drifting apart" or whatever. It's simply a matter of giving the age-appropriate facts without editorializing.

Your kids will figure out who is who as life goes on. If your WW continues down the path of narcissistic self-involvement, she's going to disappoint them over and over and over again, and there's nothing you can do to stop that from happening. A "just-the-facts-ma'am" approach protects YOUR relationship with them. You're not the one who's poisoning your WW's relationships. She is. And you're not the one apologizing for her behavior or trying to make things right. That's her job.

Right now, I think it's enough just keeping your head down and getting out as clean as possible in the divorce while being the best dad you can be. That's a pretty tall order all on its own.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5967   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8755448
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 12:23 AM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

The truth is that their mother doesn't want to be a wife to their father and has consistently shown that she prefers to be with someone else. Dealing with the children is not about whether adultery can be proved in court, it's about being honest with them about what is going on in their family. If he waits until the divorce is final, the story that he just wanted out will already be part of their belief.

Also, the fact that the financial advisor came up with a way for wife to remain in the house doesn't mean it is an appropriate way forward in this case.

We didn't tell the kids that I wanted to leave or that I wanted to live somewhere else. We told the kids that sometimes love between parents isn't unconditional, like the love we have for them, and that we have lost the love for eachother.
If ever my wife would tell stories to the kids, they will always come to me to verify. They always ask me and tell me everything because I'm more approachable.
They also don't keep 'dangerous' secrets. I have always thaught them about the difference between fun secrets (parties/gifts), damaging secrets (don't tell mom I gave you this cookie = making them afraid of telling the truth) and dangerous secrets (if you ever tell mom or dad this, then someone might get hurt, predator style) and that grown-ups aren't allowed to ask children to keep a damaging or dangerous secret for them and if someone ever did, they should tell me, because a grown-up asking children to keep secrets is up to no good. I thaught them this in the case of predators.
So they even tell me when their grandparents let them stay up late, when they told them "don't tell mom or dad".

As we will have 50/50 coparenting, the kids will be at my house as much as her house. They will have a great new place to live that I will completely fit to their liking. My daughter wants an anime wall in her room, my son wants a minecraft wall in his. These are things I can do now. They enjoy thinking about their second place to live.

The thing is, if I create the narrative now, and she opposes it, it will hurt the children. Big chance that she will only meet him in secret during the weeks that the kids are with me, just to avoid me knowing about it. It could be months/years before they announce their love to the kids. And by then it'll still be my word against hers because then she can easily say they only connected long after the divorce.

In what way would it help the kids or me to tell the kids now? I don't see any benefit.
If she wants to be with him after the divorce, and it happens soon after, I will tell them ofcourse. But if she wants to be with him, I don't really care anymore. I have emotionally checked out the moment I suspected her of cheating. Even though I have blocked myself emotionally from the situation, after the word was out, it helped me a lot that I wasn't bound to her anymore. I feel like I can let go. I'm getting the kids at least half of the time, I'm getting my share of the house, and in the end, I'm financially better off.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755450
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 12:29 AM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

Right now, I think it's enough just keeping your head down and getting out as clean as possible in the divorce while being the best dad you can be. That's a pretty tall order all on its own.

Thanks, this is what I'm striving for.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755452
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 1:18 AM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

I would not have any financial entanglements with your STBXWW. She fired you as her husband. Let her AP loan her the money. That way, when it inevitability goes south,you can pop some corn, grab a chair, and enjoy the shit-show...

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 1:19 AM, Friday, September 16th]

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 2022!!!!

posts: 1319   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8755456
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HarryD ( member #72423) posted at 5:31 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

You have to be careful money wise. Don’t pay for your WW to live in your home. If she doesn’t pay the mortgage, taxes. How knows. They will foreclosure or you will be paying the bills. Don’t pay so much that you don’t have money to live. Get remarried ect.
She and her BF will be living the high life. And you will be trying to make rent on a apartment

Your kids are young. You have to think about there future. The older the get the more expensive they become. High school sports, band. Trips. Cars. College. You are going to need money for this. BF isn’t going to pay, BF might not be there. She may find out no one wants a woman with kids. Unless they have kids and wants to be supported Because they are paying there ex so much

posts: 114   ·   registered: Dec. 30th, 2019   ·   location: NY
id 8755608
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CuriousObserver ( member #78743) posted at 11:37 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

Hello PDP,

So sorry you find yourself here.
You seem like a kind and compassionate person. I would like to also caution you against having any financial entanglement with your WW - in any form. One of the reasons you need legal and financial representation in a crisis of this kind is to protect you from her. You are not equipped to protect your interests from her because you are too enmeshed with her. She knows this. I urge you to find advisors you trust and follow their advice.

Listen to their words but believe their actions.
The power of a lie is that it is believed to be truth.

posts: 173   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8755666
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 9:03 PM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2022

Hey Pesto, checking in....How are you doing? I hope you are alright...

posts: 420   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8756243
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