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Newest Member: Goku06

Just Found Out :
Married for 13 years, together for 17. It's over but I'm still angry

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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 2:11 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

Whether she admits to this being an affair or not isn’t really the issue moving on.
This isn’t a court of law where you need irrefutable beyond doubt proof of guilt. All that is needed is that YOU are convinced.
Based on what you share nobody here can 100% tell you that they are cheating. Anybody that does so is assuming a whole lot.
But… I venture that nearly all – if not everyone – that reads your story thinks she is cheating. You have so many red flags and indicators that it’s the logical deduction.
You mention she’s a cop, as I was ages ago. In the academy I learned this quote that goes something like "when you hear the beating of hooves you think horses, not zebras". It has two meanings as it was presented to us. The first one is that often the obvious and logical deduction is likely to be the correct one. I don’t think you have zebras galloping around in Netherlands, so if you hear the beating of hooves in the distance your logical deduction is that you will see a horse come round that corner. Based on what you share we hear the beating of hooves, and we even might catch a whiff of horse-shit.
However… the other meaning of the quote is that MAYBE today is the day the local Safari park lost a zebra and he’s rounding the corner… Deductions are good – assumptions not so good.


But… I think it’s clear that she’s cheating and it’s only a slight question of how far it has gone. Emotional, physical, full sex… it’s details rather than the real issue.

I agree, it's details. The facts are: She doesn't see me as a romantic partner anymore and doesn't give me intimacy. She shares more leasure time with another man. She meets with him and lies about it.

I take trust very seriously. She has betrait me, there is no more trust. I see no way future for us together, without me being hurt all the time. So the only logical conclusion is to seperate.


You two are separating. Great. That is definitely one of the two ways out of infidelity. However, I want to emphasize that separation/divorce is the TERMINATION of a relationship rather than an alternative form of marriage.

Once the paper is signed you want the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM forced interaction with her. I’m guessing that due to the kids that interaction will be based around coparenting. I do hope you two become great coparents, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you need to have coffee and dinners and behave like best friends.

In the strongest of words, I warn you 100% AGAINST any financial entwinement!
If she wants the home, she pays you what your share is worth. You DO NOT finance it in any way. The idea of the loan is 100% insane and should be completely off the table. Remember: the divorce is because of trust-issues and broken commitments. Why should an unofficial, semi-illegal loan hold up any better? What happens if she doesn’t pay; can you enforce payments through the legal system? What happens if she forfeits on the mortgage; is your unofficial loan supported by a lean on the property? There are too many gaps, too much risk and too much entwinement.

If she can’t afford it and you don’t want it then sell and split the profit. If you want it pay her the fair share. DO NOT own it together in some quasi-legal, non-enforceable way. You do NOT want to go pick up your kids to see that OM has moved in and that they are going to Spain for holiday, only a day after she tells you she can’t start paying you the debt.

In the Netherlands, when people with kids divorce, they are required to create a parenting plan. This parenting plan has to be handed over to the judge by a lawyer. This parenting plan needs to say where the kids will be staying, which in our case will be 50/50 divided. Next it says what address the kids will be registered on. We agreed on the kids being registered on my wifes address. The conquences of this are that she will be responsible for the 'regular' costs that are made for the children, like school, clothes, hobby. It also means, she gets all the children befenits from the government. As the least earning partner, she will receive more than I would. But because she receives so much in child support from the government, she will have to pay me child support (not much, we are talking about 50$, but still) so she will have a financial burden to me in any case. Giving a loan in my case is legal, a contract in my case would be legal. Not semi-legal. The fact that she isn't declaring this when going into a mortgage is not my problem. If she doesn't pay me, she has all the risks. If she doesn't pay, I have every option of suing her. And if I would, she would have bigger problems. I'm not risking anything here. In all cases I can get my money. It's also something I can spare, even if I lost that money. But my kids would be in the same home and close to their friends. Which for me really is worth something.


I share this POV from semi-personal experience. A close relative divorced his wife 4 years ago and asked for my advice regarding the division of assets. Part of the settlement was that he bought her share of their property with a cash payment. She wanted cash because she could hide it from taxes and some social benefits she was "entitled" to. Last year he sold the property and made a nice profit, only for the ex wife to pop up with an attorney demanding her share of the profit… What she had forgotten what that I had the young man require she sign a contract stating the settlement had been paid in full.

Yeah, I will also be having her sign a contract if this is the way we will go. I will also have witnesses present during the signing.
A big upside of doing this, means I can move out much faster and get my own place. I can easily afford a nice house and a second safe place for this kids. I really want to be away from her. Now I'm just biding my time.

I am going to check into more debt what kind of consequences such a lone could mean for me financially or legally.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755210
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 2:25 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

A good mother doesn't have an affair.

A good mother certainly doesn't bring her boyfriend into the home, around her children. She doesn't have him babysit her kids. She doesn't cheat on their father right in front of him. She doesn't take time from her kids,to spend with the boyfriend. She doesn't risk their father's life, by potentially exposing him to stds. She doesn't risk her children's family, their happiness, by having a boyfriend. She doesn't spend money on her boyfriend.


A good mother sets a good example.

She is a terrible mother. You have to know that they carried on in front of your kids,when you weren't around. They probably are so confused at this point.

As you said,they're smart kids. They already know.

It's highly advised, typically, that you tell the kids the truth, in an age appropriate manner.

She betrayed those kids,every bit as much as she betrayed you.

Don't lie to your kids. Ever. Don't allow her behavior to turn you into someone your kids can't trust.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:27 PM, Wednesday, September 14th]

posts: 4655   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8755212
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NotInMyLife ( member #67728) posted at 2:44 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

I told her I'm open to the option. But I'd want to have witnesses present for such a contract to be signed, which she is totally ok with. I think it's weird that she is open to give such a power to me.

NO. Do not do anything that will legitimize the path she already chose. Do not make it comfortable for her to live in the house you bought with her paramour and your children. Do not get into a situation where you are constantly monitoring how your investment is being squandered on this man.

And about the children. Do not keep them in the dark, you can tell them in an age appropriate way what is happening: Mommy has a boyfriend and doesn't want to be married to Daddy anymore. No matter what their ages, it's a truth that needs to be said...and will be remembered. What you do not want is to have your kids later tell a totally different version of her infidelity and blame you for the split.

posts: 167   ·   registered: Nov. 3rd, 2018
id 8755213
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 2:51 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

A good mother doesn't have an affair.

A good mother certainly doesn't bring her boyfriend into the home, around her children. She doesn't have him babysit her kids. She doesn't cheat on their father right in front of him. She doesn't take time from her kids,to spend with the boyfriend. She doesn't risk their father's life, by potentially exposing him to stds. She doesn't risk her children's family, their happiness, by having a boyfriend. She doesn't spend money on her boyfriend.


A good mother sets a good example.

She is a terrible mother. You have to know that they carried on in front of your kids,when you weren't around. They probably are so confused at this point.

As you said,they're smart kids. They already know.

It's highly advised, typically, that you tell the kids the truth, in an age appropriate manner.

She betrayed those kids,every bit as much as she betrayed you.

Don't lie to your kids. Ever. Don't allow her behavior to turn you into someone your kids can't trust.

When you put it like that. I haven't even thought about that.

The kids haven't asked questions about the reasons yet, but more about the consequences. So I haven't lied to them. We told the kids we aren't in love anymore and that we don't want to live together. This is the truth.
The problem here is that I don't have any tangible proof. If I'd tell the kids, they will ask their mother, who will just deny it. If they had actually seen them doing physical stuff, I'm pretty sure my daughter would have already told me.
Ofcourse, if they ask more questions, I can tell them that my reason is that she invests more time in another man than me, but that's about all I have.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755215
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 3:29 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

And about the children. Do not keep them in the dark, you can tell them in an age appropriate way what is happening: Mommy has a boyfriend and doesn't want to be married to Daddy anymore. No matter what their ages, it's a truth that needs to be said...and will be remembered. What you do not want is to have your kids later tell a totally different version of her infidelity and blame you for the split.


As long as she doesn't actively present him as her boyfriend, and lie about who he is to her, what am I to do? It will be a my word against her word.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755218
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:36 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

You don't have to see them having sex,to know there was an affair.

This man felt comfortable enough to get naked in front of your wife,with you around.

Men don't get involved in affairs for sweet glances,and giggles. They're in it for the sex.

You know there was an affair.

You don't have to tell the kids anything other than..I divorced your mother because she had a boyfriend. And tell them his name. Tell them when two people are married,it is between those 2 people. And their mother decided she wanted a third..and you are not sharing your wife. They don't need to know any details. But,I promise you,once you tell them the truth,if they haven't outright seen them being affectionate, a lot of things will click and make sense to them.

Of course she will lie to them. Just as she has lied, and is lying, to you. When they come back to you,telling them mom said it's not true,tell them they will understand one day. And,one day, they will fully see that having this man around all the time, especially naked in the pool, wasn't ok.

posts: 4655   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8755219
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goalong ( member #57352) posted at 6:05 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

You let her have both ways for 1.5 years - ideal conditions for her with a caring BH at home. No more. Now she face the real situation. She knows the OM is a CON and most probably even if she chose to stay with him it will be short lived. As it says many affairs end along with the marriage And please stop crying in front of her who treated you so badly and expendably. Hold your head high and do your other things like the job even better. It is sexy to act productively in the face of adversity.

posts: 796   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2017   ·   location: USA
id 8755244
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 6:26 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

You let her have both ways for 1.5 years - ideal conditions for her with a caring BH at home. No more. Now she face the real situation. She knows the OM is a CON and most probably even if she chose to stay with him it will be short lived. As it says many affairs end along with the marriage And please stop crying in front of her who treated you so badly and expendably. Hold your head high and do your other things like the job even better. It is sexy to act productively in the face of adversity.

I have only cried the first 2 days. But after that, the tears were all dried up. I've been spending more time with family than I have in the last years. I've been working out more, spending time on my hobbies. Doing some fixing in the house before the sale. She is seeing me a lot happier than she has in the past 1,5 years and I'm sure she notices I'm looking forward to being without her soon.

Thanks for your message, I take this to heart.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755249
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NotInMyLife ( member #67728) posted at 9:14 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

Doing some fixing in the house before the sale.

Sale to whom? Are you fixing up the house so your wife and her lover can enjoy the fruits of your labor? That makes no sense.

Also, you need to be more specific with your kids. It's not that you don't love each other anymore, it's that your wife doesn't love you and prefers to be with someone else. That's the truth and it's not fair to your kids to dance around it. You are actively lying to them to pretend that your separation is a result of anything at all you did or wanted.

posts: 167   ·   registered: Nov. 3rd, 2018
id 8755273
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 9:30 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

If she doesn't pay me, she has all the risks. If she doesn't pay, I have every option of suing her. And if I would, she would have bigger problems. I'm not risking anything here. In all cases I can get my money.

The reason she needs this to be an unregistered loan is she's a bad risk with her true numbers. That is bank's see her as a high probability of defaulting if the numbers be known. This is their business and their math is usually skewed to allow people to borrow too much not too little.

I wouldn't dream of borrowing anywhere close to what banks are willing to lend me as the monthly numbers would be bleak. Your STBX wants to borrow more. Your loan will be unsecured which places you at the back of the line if her house of cards fall down. Or she gets hit by a bus. If you want to risk gifting her the equity Fine, but you have to go into this assuming you're not going to get that money back. I recommend enduing up on the other side of divorce with the only business arrangements being court orders for the children. Why would you trust someone who's proven themselves to be untrustworthy.

[This message edited by grubs at 9:31 PM, Wednesday, September 14th]

posts: 1301   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8755279
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 10:16 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

Sale to whom? Are you fixing up the house so your wife and her lover can enjoy the fruits of your labor? That makes no sense.

Also, you need to be more specific with your kids. It's not that you don't love each other anymore, it's that your wife doesn't love you and prefers to be with someone else. That's the truth and it's not fair to your kids to dance around it. You are actively lying to them to pretend that your separation is a result of anything at all you did or wanted.

Untill this yesterday, we were going to sell the house and both live somewhere else. We had meetings with estate agents last week who pointed out a few things to fix to increase the sale value. So I immidiatly started fixing those tings.

Yesterday our financial advisor let us know it might be possible for her to keep living here. But only under specific conditions...

About the children, yeah, everybody here tells me that I have to tell them. I guess that is what I have to do.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755285
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 10:27 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

The reason she needs this to be an unregistered loan is she's a bad risk with her true numbers. That is bank's see her as a high probability of defaulting if the numbers be known. This is their business and their math is usually skewed to allow people to borrow too much not too little.

I wouldn't dream of borrowing anywhere close to what banks are willing to lend me as the monthly numbers would be bleak. Your STBX wants to borrow more. Your loan will be unsecured which places you at the back of the line if her house of cards fall down. Or she gets hit by a bus. If you want to risk gifting her the equity Fine, but you have to go into this assuming you're not going to get that money back. I recommend enduing up on the other side of divorce with the only business arrangements being court orders for the children. Why would you trust someone who's proven themselves to be untrustworthy.

Yeah, I think you are right. I think I'm being to lenient here. I want to get away from her as soon as possible, and this would make the process happen like 2-4 months sooner. Is that worth 13.5k is the question I have to ask myself.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755286
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fareast ( Guide #61555) posted at 10:56 PM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

PDP:

It’s only human to show emotion as you realize your M is dissolving. Showing emotion is to be expected. That is not a sign of weakness.

Your listed many amazing positive actions you are doing to help you move forward. Keep it up. Take care of you. Continue getting stronger. Be there for your children. Always value yourself. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3258   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8755292
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Confused282 ( new member #79680) posted at 12:11 AM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Honestly you are a strong smart man. It’s hard to give you much advise as you have a good head on your shoulder.

It’s hard not to be mad in these situations and want to see some justice but you do have the kids so it’s understandable.

One reason you are mad and will stay mad is your plan will give you no sense of justice.

When you learn about infidelity you see a pattern. Women on both sides have a similar fantasy.

When they are with a married man they get a fantasy that they will have his life. They will just swap out his wife for them.

When they are cheating they have the fantasy that they will just swap out their husband and for the new man and keep their life the same or better.

I worry that is what is happening. She’ll keep the house and kids most of the time so she can live by the pool with him. He will love it. And you will take the kids half the time so they can have some time off. He will love that too.

You can’t do much about that but you don’t have to make it completely come true.

I would sell the house split the money 50/50 and let her find something new.

Kids move all the time for non evil reasons.

Also you don’t want any further financial ties to her. Get through the kids growing up then put up with seeing her at important milestones and leave her behind.

I also think you need to tell the kids.

But you are handling things exceptionally well so you may be right.

I’m sorry for what she put you through. You did not deserve it.

posts: 49   ·   registered: Dec. 16th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8755301
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Dkt3 ( member #75072) posted at 12:42 AM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

At 7 and 9 your children are far more aware of the situation then you think.

The danger in not telling them is over the next few years they will put together a narrative based on what they saw and heard first hand, what they hear second hand (from family and friends). That's not a good thing. Unfortunately for my wife that is what we did and our son, now in his early 20's has a very difficult relationship with his mother. He doesn't trust her, doesn't believe that she has his best interests at heart.

After a period of time its very difficult to convince them that this narrative they created is not the actual events, because its how they remember it. Try to convince someone thier memories are not accurate...losing battle.

posts: 110   ·   registered: Aug. 3rd, 2020
id 8755304
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 2:32 AM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Is that worth 13.5k is the question I have to ask myself.

That money could pay for a nice vacation for you and your kids, how does Punta Cana or Seychelles sound ? Disneyland Paris ?, The money you leave on the table is money she could/will spend with her boyfriend, I suggest you reconsider and put that money to good use, maybe a college fund, car upgrade, savings for a rainy day, there's a very wide range of possibilities.

posts: 2638   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8755320
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SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 3:06 AM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

She's a police officer huh.

OK ask her to take a lie detector test to prove she hasn't had sex with the other guy.

posts: 487   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8755328
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 PestoDiPapi (original poster new member #80918) posted at 1:05 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

She's a police officer huh.

OK ask her to take a lie detector test to prove she hasn't had sex with the other guy.

The police in the Netherlands does not use the polygraph or any sort of lie-detector, because we don't believe in that. It's all about the way questions are asked.

But on the evening of the final event that made me decide I wanted out, I was acting like I was having fun untill some part. I wanted to put an appointment in her calendar to remind her of something for tomorrow as she was drunk and she had her phone unlocked. When I grabbed the phone, the predator was all over me, and looking and saying "what are you doing, no seriously, what are you doing", and my wife stood up, grabbed her phone and took it. Later that evening, I asked for her phone to look up something on the internet (as my battery was empty), she reluctantly unlocked her phone and gave it. I tried to open her messenger app, and there was a secondary lock on there. That lock is something you have to set up very deep in the system, its not something you are asked to do while setting it up. This gave me so much info. I had never in our married life checked her phone, ever. So her locking away her chat history told me the last piece of info I needed.
I confronted her about it during our divorce talk. At first she said she had accidentally set that up while browsing the settings, when that didn't hold up, she said it was because she was suspicious of me going through her phone. When that didn't hold up, it changed to "You might misinterpret some stuff that has been said on there."
When I asked her to let me see what I could have misinterpreted, if she wanted to rule out any suspicion, unlock the phone now and let me read it. Which she turned around with "You think I have cheated anyway, so there is no point.

Anyone who reads this, or hears this knows what this means. It's not proof. But it looks, sounds and feels much more like a horse than a zebra (referencing the analogy in Biggers comment here)...

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: The Netherlands
id 8755362
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Hotdog ( member #58066) posted at 1:18 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

Someone who is innocent who's accused of wrongful doing will do anything anything to prove their innocence. She just admitted guilt by not showing her phone to you. Your WW is a police officer so she should know this. SMH!!!

posts: 151   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2017
id 8755363
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 1:23 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

It's not a court of law, it's all the proof you need. And the fact she is not begging to R also says what you need to know.

It must have been hard not to smack the posom when he got up to get the phone from you. I believe I would have gotten physical at that moment (which is a flaw, I know).

posts: 642   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8755364
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