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Reconciliation :
Let me tell you what reconciliation isn't

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 DaysGoneBy (original poster new member #79799) posted at 2:37 AM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

I posted a few months back about being done going it alone. Turns out, I clearly wasn't.

A quick recap: after 5 years of "R", here's where I'm at.

Well, she finally got tested for STDs. Finally, right? I mean phew. Dammit, forgot to mention that she only got tested due to a breast cancer scare (benign) that finally forced her to go to the gyno....5.5 years later. Great news, it was clean- she was oddly, and I mean weirdly, ecstatic about this. I mean, I was, too, but you'd swear she found out she was "not the father" on a Maury Povich special, if you catch my drift.

Oh, in other great news- I finally got the timeline I had been asking for. All the sordid details, well, as it relates to f*cking. The bathroom masturbatory sessions were conveniently missing. (I am Jack's complete lack of suprise.)

As an aside, to anyone new reading this or lurking- get the F out of your marriage. If you are waiting years for information....don't. Don't be like me, I implore you. You WILL regret it.

When you realize that your spouse wasn't lost, wasn't confused etc...thay they did this because regardless of the mantra that it isn't you, it's them- it's kinda you. I'm not saying you're inadequate. Far from it.

But it's just that you cannot do for them what the AP did. Full goddamn stop. That's a wrap.

We've had some hard conversations since she gave me the timeline. Hard. Here's what I gleaned, and these are 95% accurate quotes:

"I didn't think this would affect you this bad."

"You're such a strong man, I didn't think it would take you this long to get over it."

"I don't understand your pain or hiw you feel, but after you explain it, I kick myself for not seeing your point."

"I've always lived one just moving forward and not reflecting on the past-it's how I survived."

These are great statements at face value. I see, now, what I am really up against- an oil covered mountain with a 90 degree slope.

Today, while driving to pick up an employee's van from the body shop, I give her the phone to navigate. This, actually, is the crux of this post- I need a reality check.

We pass a billboard for a xxx convention-she apparently didn't know they were a thing- and we started discussing sex stuff. During the course of the discussion, which was jovial and playful, I hand her the phone to navigate.

Right after I hand her the phone, I mention that I've been looking into tantric sex as something we could possibly explore. Literally, and I shit you not, 1 second later, I apparently take the wrong exit ramp off the highway. I saw a sign for the turnpike and took it; she said nothing because she assumed I knew how to get where we were going via a different route than normal. My fault, apparently.

I went silent. I let her rip into me about missing the turn, adding 10 minutes to the route, etc. All the while assuming that the thing I finally had the courage to bring yp, went right over her head because I missed the turn.

She knows her snappiness with me is a sore point- it reminds me of how sje treated me in her affair- so I was silently stewing a out that because I didn't want to get in to an argument while being directionally challenged, so to speak. Sje laid in to me nonetheless.

On the way home, she's trying to pull me out of my zone. "I don't want you to be upset, let's not ruin the whole night, etc." I told her I just kinda decouple from reality when she gets like that because it takes me back to affair season (shit, we're in it, come to think about it).

We get home, and I start cooking dinner. As usual. To her credit, now she doesn't want to leave me alone and wants to "work through " what happened. So, we get into it.

Turns out, she heard my comment about looking into Tantric sex- she ignored it because I went the wrong way. Then, she forgot about it until I brought it up again during our last conversation.

She said, "Oh I heard you, but then you took the wrong exit and I forgot about it."

I asked her, why not bring it back up after our 5 minute detour? "Well, I forgot."

And that, dear people, is the crux. You can't do anything with people that refuse to get out of their own way. I asked her if there was any part of her that thought MAYBE, just MAYBE, you let the missed turn slide and tien it in to a joke, or something other than being a snappy b*itch. No, I didn't use that term during the conversation, but I'm using it now. Her response: Nope.

What am I missing here- of this is a gross overreaction please 4x8 the everloving crap out of me. Seriously.

Because right now, tonight, as I sit in my pool amd look at the stars, all .wishing was I could be anywhere but here.

Here I was thinking sje didn't hear my comment. Turns out, she did. Which is worse, because it was so fsr below the radar it didn't even register. FML. Lol.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2022   ·   location: United States
id 8747463
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:18 AM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

What am I missing here-

You're missing a remorseful WS who takes full responsibility for her actions,and from the quotes you have given,has done zero work on herself.

Also..

she was oddly, and I mean weirdly, ecstatic about this.

This. THIS. A giant,red,waving flag. This tells me she thought she had an std. Either because she is currently cheating,or has very recently cheated. Or,because she's had some odd symptoms, and she's wondered if she had an std. Which is a problem, because that says she didn't care enough to tell you,the person she's having sex with.

You're right. This isn't reconciliation, by any means. Now what?

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:19 AM, Thursday, July 28th]

posts: 4495   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8747466
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 4:58 AM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

A healthy relationship can never be a replacement for an illicit one. In that sense I agree that you can't do what the AP did.

Everything else. Well, you can always change your mind dude. So don't implore us to change ours. Just change yours. Best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago, best you can do is today.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2028   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8747472
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 5:02 AM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

I apparently take the wrong exit ramp off the highway...I let her rip into me about missing the turn, adding 10 minutes to the route, etc...she knows her snappiness with me is a sore point- it reminds me of how she treated me in her affair

Oh boy, do I know that "snappiness". I've experienced it, and once saw another person experiencing it. It is verbal abuse. It is a sign of contempt and a lack of love. It is NOT normal. It is not okay. It is not no big deal. It is about being treated as a lesser person, by the person who is supposed to be loving and supportive. There is no way to stop another person from abusing us, aside from to leave, so they will no longer have the opportunity.

Get out. Your wife is not loving or respectful and is not showing any signs that she ever plans to be, even after 5 years post D-Day. You yourself advised people going through this to get out- and in this case, it's time for you to take your own advice.

[This message edited by morningglory at 5:12 AM, Thursday, July 28th]

posts: 454   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8747473
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 9:53 AM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

So in a nutshell, the Pick Me dance does not lead to Tantric sex? I agree. So now what?

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5604   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8747481
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 2:45 PM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

Has something like this happened before? Have you ever brought up something and then she derails the conversation by getting pissed about something else? Do you think it's possible that she felt uncomfortable with your suggestion to try tantric sex, so rather than discuss her feelings (and deal with your potential feelings of rejection), she derailed the conversation by blowing up about and continuing to harp on the missed term?

The reason I ask is that this was a tactic that my ex used quite a bit. For example, before Dday, I asked him if he could put in for time off after my graduation from my master's program so we could take a celebratory trip together. At that moment, he suddenly noticed I thrown some laundry on the floor instead of the hamper, which led to him going off about how messy I am. Later that day, after the fight cooled off, I asked him what he thought about my vacation idea and he said he completely forgot about it. In retrospect, I realized that he didn't want to go on the trip with me and be away from OW coworker for a week, but saying "no" would make him the bad guy and lead to more questions, so he orchestrated the argument and then conveniently forgot about the vacation idea afterward.

How often, during interactions with your wife, do you feel like you're losing your mind? Do you sometimes feel like the words that are coming out of your mouth are being put through a distortion machine as they enter her head?

Another thing that stood out in your post was your wife's reaction to the STD test. She would not have been so ecstatic about the negative results if she hadn't been harboring some serious anxieties about having an STD... yet for 5.5 years, she put off getting tested. Instead, she waited until she had no choice but to get tested.

Do you think you can spend the rest of your life with someone who would consciously put your health at risk in order to avoid having to admit that she had unprotected sex with another man and caught something from it?

In general, can you accept that your wife will never do more than the bare minimum required of her? Do you think honest communication and genuine intimacy is possible with a person who is this self-centered? If nothing in your marriage changes from how it is today, can you spend the rest of your life in it?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:53 PM, Thursday, July 28th]

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 844   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8747501
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 8:53 PM on Thursday, July 28th, 2022

I feel for you. Five years seems to be a common reflection point for many here. It was for me. At that point you feel you have recovered the marriage and love, or on the flip side realize that those feelings aren’t coming back. You like me, ended up in the latter.

I looked back at your first post. My comments from then still stand. Affairs happen. I can’t say that prior to my exww affair I was never tempted. What was never tempting would have been to do it in our bed, or invent situations where she would have to interact with an affair partner. Or in your case your 7 year old child.

It’s no wonder she is tone deaf. It’s clear by her actions above, or the fact it took 5 years for a timeline and std test she has no respect for you. I think she, like my ex, thinks that no matter what she does you will never leave her. People learn from past experiences, and your wife like mine did fu*ked a guy in your bed and saw very little consequences. Why should she think not doing the tests or timeline would be a problem. Pretty minor stuff versus a roll in your bed.

Not much advice to give. My only suggestion is that you bring the hammer down harder on things you expect her to do. Not like letting the timeline and test be at her whim. That shit shouldn’t stand. I understand how it happens. You are sick about thinking about it. But if you truly want the marriage she needs to know her actions, or inactions have consequences.

Did she have any aside from the "I suffer just thinking about how I hurt my BS" crap that so many waywards think is a consequence.

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 1907   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
id 8747549
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Confused282 ( new member #79680) posted at 2:16 AM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

I’m so sorry for what you have gone through. You pain is felt through your words.

The main thing I want to add is this, are you still living in the same condo she cheated on you in?

If so you need to move asap.

You needed to move immediately. You said your self your bathroom triggers you. You can not heal in that same place. It’s forever tainted.

posts: 14   ·   registered: Dec. 16th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8747578
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 4:24 AM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

What is it that you want? I think that's the question you'd probably need to figure out. So, maybe you start by shooting the moon and thinking about what you could have if you could have anything, and be specific. Then, you would insert some reality into your thinking, what is actually possible, and be specific. You break it down point by point and then sort into what you absolutely have to have in order to be reasonably content within your relationship, and what would just be nice, right? Finally, you would prioritize your list and then start working toward those goals.

It kind of sounds like you're trying to swallow the bear whole as it were. You wanted to have a discussion about tantric sex and your WW wasn't hearing you. You made a bid. She shrugged it off. So, if we were to throw out all the other data points and just look at this one issue, is it reparable? Could you have been more direct? Could you have pushed to stay on topic? What could YOU have done to make your goal more achievable? You can't control her. You can only control you. Heck, when you missed your turn, you might have pulled over to a safe stop and calmly pointed out that the issue of tantric sex had been important to you, that you had been looking for a moment to bring it up, and that you don't want to be distracted by an argument over missed turns. See, this is something that we DO have control over. We don't have to be reactive. We can be proactive.

WS's aren't perfect people, and in cases where a BS feels like the work hasn't been properly attended, I do think it's okay to walk it back and polish up the rough (or missed) spots. But not everything is about the infidelity. What happens sometimes is that we get ourselves worked up about a particular issue and then when we end up getting frustrated over it, the injustice of having already been a pretty damned good sport all things considered MAGNIFIES the upset. So, then we've got two problems... the first thing that was already pissing us off, and then re-wrestling with our feelings of injustice. Believe me, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

I do think it's fair to decide you're done. You can do that if you want. No cheater is owed a second chance. But you're posting in R today, so I'm thinking you're not quite done yet. Maybe getting down to the nitty gritty about what you're REALLY wanting for your life, breaking it down into what's achievable and then prioritizing your goals could give you more control over the process. I do remember that when I asked myself the "what do you want?" question, what I really wanted was a time machine. laugh No such luck though, but still, it was an important answer because it helped me realize that I was wasting energy on shit I couldn't really accomplish. The feelings were valid so far as feelings go, but they weren't helping me in my goals.

Anyway, that would be my suggestion if you're not done with R.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5750   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8747585
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 7:15 AM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

I want to remind you of something that took me a very long time to learn: we don't get what we believe we are owed; we get what we insist on and stand up for.

What is it that you want? I think that's the question you'd probably need to figure out.

Yes, this ^^^. It seems you think your WW owes you? Because you have tolerated so much from her?

But relationships do NOT work (i.e. create respect and balance) in this way.

1. Your problem was tolerating the intolerable.

2. And believing you would then be owed or rewarded with better treatment for doing so.

What should you have done? Stood up for what you needed--STD testing, timelines, transparency, effort on her part. She LEARNED from your not standing up and insisting on those things that--you don't need a lot in the marriage. And you will get by without your needs being met.

So when you bring up tantric sex, she has learned--from you--that your needs are not important. And hers are. So she switched the subject to your wrong turn.

Why exactly would she think that your needs ARE important in this marriage? You have taught her that they are not, and that you will do without. So her behavior did not seem surprising to me at all.

We teach people how to treat us.

I know you are thinking, "But I don't want a D? So how the heck do I 'stand up' for something?" We make our choices. Your actions have sent a clear message. "I want the M. I will do without my dignity if I have to because I want the M." Only you can decide if you can live with your decision. But if you choose to keep and value the M over all else, you should understand that her attitude toward you will not change. Period. She understands that the M is what you value, and she is staying M. But she is ignoring your needs because you are.

We teach people how to treat us.

I'm sorry, I know it really sucks. But that doesn't make it any less true. It's true for all of us in marriage and relationships. We must value ourselves continually to maintain the balance in the M. An A wrecks that balance, and only standing up for yourself has any chance of righting it. Or righting it by finding you a more balanced R with someone else.

Just my two cents. Which ain't much in 2022.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:19 AM, Friday, July 29th]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5604   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8747590
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:16 PM on Friday, July 29th, 2022

As an aside, to anyone new reading this or lurking- get the F out of your marriage. If you are waiting years for information....don't. Don't be like me, I implore you. You WILL regret it.

What’s preventing you from following your own advice if this is how you truly feel about your marriage and it’s future?

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10815   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8747670
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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 7:16 AM on Saturday, July 30th, 2022

If I've learned one thing in the age of modern GPS navigation it's that a missed turn is almost never worth getting upset about. "Rerouting..."

It's not like you were rushing her to hospital or an urgent appointment. So the question is, what is she really so angry about that adding five minutes to a trip sets her off like this?

Me: 60, BS -- Her: 59, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

posts: 419   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8747750
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numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 8:48 PM on Tuesday, August 2nd, 2022

You are in a prison. You've always had the key to the door to walk out, but you have never done so.

I am not being snarky. Why have you stayed if you are this miserable ?

You can D after 5 years and build a better life. Nobody that knows the details would judge you. Are there financial reasons to stay M'd to whatever you call that person sitting next to you?

Is she blackmailing you? Damn, life is too short to deal with this level of bullshit.

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

posts: 5033   ·   registered: May. 17th, 2010
id 8748075
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 2:21 AM on Wednesday, August 3rd, 2022

In your other thread, you said:

The real problem lies in the fact that she, on the surface, does the right things.

Nope. Shes does not do the right things. She does some things, token things, just enough that, combined with your rug sweeping, she's able to keep you stringing along. She is a living, breathing example of the distinction between "sorry she was caught" and truly remorseful (and, to be clear, she is the former).

Aside from what she isn't doing now, the million pound gorilla in the room is what she did during her A. I am a believer that there are degrees of trauma and insult from degrees of depravity with respect to a cheater's acts during the A. Some injuries and insults are just too big for R, no matter what. Sometimes, the cut is just too deep. Screwing a guy who was regularly in your presence, who knew you, bringing him home for sex in your bed, that's deeply wicked behavior. There's no way there wasn't a profound "fuck you" from her, to you, infused in what she did with, to, for, and because of the AP.

Meanwhile, you've reached the plain of lethal flatness. Floating alone in your pool at night, seething with resentment over all the stuff she's not doing -- including still not initiating the Saturday evening infidelity chautauqua that she promised -- that's the rest of your life stretching out before you, my friend. This is as good as it'll get for you. Is that really the life you want? You hold the keys to your own jail cell.

Let me leave you with another thought. Just because you choose each day to white knuckle it and stubbornly cling to a broken, unhappy marriage doesn't mean your wife will make that same choice. She's an independent actor. She has already cheated once, and by your description has little-to-no remorse. She's clearly not "both feet all the way in" with respect to R. It cannot possibly feel good to her knowing that her injured husband is outdoors at night, floating alone in his swimming pool and seething with resentment. Frankly, it probably makes her feel shitty. Not shitty enough to do anything about it by way of improving the marriage (which she is clearly not committed to doing), but shitty enough so she wishes she could feel some other way, if there were an easy path to do so. People usually will eventually figure out a way to leave a situation that makes them feel shitty; crappy individuals will usually take the easy, dishonest route. It's the same exact vector that leads to a lot of cheating, probably including your WW's.

The heart knows what it knows, brother. Your heart knows that her heart's happy place isn't next to you, at least not in the way you want and need it to be. In turn, her heart knows that yours breaks a little bit every day, because of her refusal to give you her heart in the way you want and need. Do you really want to invest another year, two years, three maybe, into this broken relationship, only to wake up one day to her telling you that she's out? You're still south of 45. Lots of life left in you. Go find somebody who will cherish you.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 3:12 PM, Thursday, August 4th]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3939   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8748098
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 3:25 PM on Thursday, August 4th, 2022

DaysGoneBy, how are you holding up?

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 844   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8748201
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 7:15 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

I too agree with the others who have posted that you are with an unremorseful WS and reconciliation doesn't work with that kind of mentality. It took me 5 years after False R to leave my xWS and it was the best decision I have ever made. My xWS was also snappy with me and contemptuous... well and he's a flaming narcissist laugh You don't have to stay in this marriage at all costs and there is something about this 5 year mark.

fBS/fWS(me):49 Mad-hattered after DD1
XWS:51 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
Was Married 19 yrs
DD(19) DS(16)
DD1 (2008) COW, DD2 (2012) MOW, False R (2014) Same MOW. DD3 (2019) Webcam girl

posts: 8290   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8748425
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ShockedAndShattered ( member #79685) posted at 9:29 PM on Wednesday, August 10th, 2022

Jesus this hit home.

As an aside, to anyone new reading this or lurking- get the F out of your marriage. If you are waiting years for information....don't. Don't be like me, I implore you. You WILL regret it.

When you realize that your spouse wasn't lost, wasn't confused etc...they they did this because regardless of the mantra that it isn't you, it's them- it's kinda you. I'm not saying you're inadequate. Far from it.

But it's just that you cannot do for them what the AP did. Full goddamn stop. That's a wrap.

In my case, AP(S)-plural, but you're right.

BS(me):42 WH:43
DDay 1- 9/11/21 EA 5+ yrs & lies TT
DDay 2- 9/23/21 EA 2+ years & lies TT
DDay 3- 10/17/21 EAs 1.5 yrs/5+ yrs TT
DDay 4- 4/11/22 Conf PA w/1 EA
DDay 5- 8/2/22 Failed Poly
DDay 6- 8/7/22 Whatever...

posts: 51   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2021
id 8749940
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ThisIsSoLonely ( member #64418) posted at 10:28 PM on Wednesday, August 10th, 2022

First - you had me at the Fight Club reference.

The car ride - snappiness is not in an of itself indicative of anything nor (IMO) are WS (or BS or anyone) not allowed to be snappy from time to time. I see no issue with what happened in the car (***I do NOT know your whole story so there is likely something I am missing)...but it seems to me you are upset with the fact that your WS did not jump on board the sex discussion as you had hoped, and it pissed you off something fierce and this I get (as in - the mention of tantric sex should have made her not only not care about the missed turn but not even notice it).

The rest - gaslighting, failing to give a timeline when asked, being elated about passing an STD test - all are red flags as discussed by others in this thread. I'm not sure where you are in your process aside from phase ANGRY which is fine. Where do you want to go next is the question?

I too have said "don't be like me" on this forum more than a few times...and much like there is a Wayward handbook - there also seems to be a how to delay the misery betrayed handbook that most of us follow like the gospel even when we are trying not to. :(

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:30 PM, Wednesday, August 10th]

"Sometimes you're going to have to let one person go a thousand different times, a thousand different ways, and there’s nothing pathetic or abnormal about that. You are human." - Heidi Priebe

posts: 1848   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2018
id 8749946
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