SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all. I’m truly feeling the weight and grief of the sad reality of my situation. Most days I can push through but today I’m allowing the sadness.

My stbx is certifiably broken and insane. I don’t use those words lightly. He had several mental issues way before the affair and my FOO set me up to tolerate the intolerable. I just have to accept that his cheating exposed just how deep his mental issues are. I mean what does one expect from a person dealing with sex addiction, anxiety, OCD, and NPD. He’s been seen and evaluated by several psychologist since the beginning of our marriage. I pushed for the testing because I knew something was terribly wrong.

For the last 2 days the topic of him wanting to have a child with his cheating co conspirator came up again. That’s incredibly painful because we struggled with infertility issues for years. I put a stop to all the IVF treatments and any thoughts of adoption due to the fact that he’s insane. I didn’t think he was safe to parent and I was correct. So he resented me for it. Asked the mother of the year with 3 baby daddies if she would consider getting her tubes untied. I have had to deal with this deep level of betrayal and disrespect in pieces only. Because I know it would cause unbelievable trauma if I allow myself to deal with it all at once.

So basically I asked him if he felt any shame or guilt for doing this. He said yes and no. I said excuse me?! In his NPD mind he thinks it was ok to want children. I said but you didn’t care with whom or while cheating?! It just went to crazy town from there. He later tried to apologize by saying, " Fine, I’m sorry." I told him he was a sick fck and blocked him. We’re now speaking through email about selling the house only.

There is literally no there there. No soul. No conscience. No empathy. Just a shell of a person that doesn’t exist on a normal plane. I know it’s not for me to understand. I can only accept. Has anyone else had to let go due to mental illness, brokenness, addictions, and disorders? Dealing with cheating is already pure hell. But dealing with someone a few sandwiches short of a picnic is crazy making. It’s absolutely humiliating I chose this person. It makes me feel gross and embarrassed. Ugh I have to just let myself have a moment to deal.

It’s absolutely humiliating I chose this person. It makes me feel gross and embarrassed.

Oh yes. I know that feeling. In our defense, we didn't meet the addicted disordered person. Had those guys shown up on the first date, we'd have bolted. I didn't see it in mine until after we were married. I didn't realize that I was being treated with so much love and devotion because he was reacting to me like a drug. Once his tolerance to me wore off, he went looking for greater newer highs. I met a guy who seemed to have a lot in common with me, seemed to be responsible, family-oriented, kind, fun, intelligent, devoted to me and so on. I divorced a drug and sex addict. It still kind of blows my mind, the distance between who I married and who I divorced. They aren't the same person, and yet they are. Somehow. The same man who cried tears at the altar thought nothing of buying prostitutes months later. I mean, what?

I am not stupid. Neither are you. We were fooled. I think my XWH wanted to be the man he presented himself as. I think maybe he was fooling himself too. It's hard to accept that you can be fooled on such a huge level. It's a wound all by itself. I spent a lot of time beating myself up for being too stupid to see that I was in love with, married, and merged my life with a mirage. To share so much with someone who wasn't even really there. Humiliating, embarrassing, and yeah, gross. The mindfuck of this is just incredible. Honestly, that took longer to heal than any part. The damage to my trust in myself was huge.

Where I've landed on this is that I have to accept that it's possible for someone to really fool me. No matter how much I look for red flags, no matter how careful I am, someone can fool me. I can weed out most of the red flag wavers, but there are some people who are just so good at this that I don't stand a chance. On the bright side, they are the vast minority of humans. Most people are not like this. It is really super incredibly unfortunate that we ran into these two, but thankfully most people aren't like that. Most people are not that level of fucked up. I swear they do more damage than any 20 average humans put together, but the odds are on our side.

PR- First off, sorry you are here, and under the extreme circumstances that you do find yourself.

I do have some experience with what you're talking about. The AP that my WW got with, has these same issues. Anxiety, Sex Addiction, NPD and childhood trauma from a shit dad. I learned this from his wife, the OBS. He also has a history of assault with his own wife and some children. As a father, my ears perked up when I learned of all this and do keep a close eye on this guy, b/c my ex associates with him.

This is what I can share of what I know. He can with his NPD put on the charm like the best actors in Hollywood. He uses the charm (part of his NPD) to get what he needs, from the neglect he was treated with as a child. He seeks out attention, sex and continually cheats so that he can continue to have a source for his never ending need. All NPDs have this undying need for a source (it helps them to feel good about themselves and to feel worthy). You probably are aware of this sense you have helped with your WH's diagnosis with professionals. The AP in my story was also diagnosed and he is also a SA as well. He cheated on his wife, the OBS at the very least 7 times that she was able to catch him. I'm sure you only know the tip of the iceberg in your case.

They lack the ability to have empathy, that portion of their brain is turned off. That is why they are able to continue to cheat, not have remorse and do it again. In your case, the ability to want to have a child with someone else, even though you've struggled for years. There is a lot you can learn about NPD online, research papers, others who have had experience living with them. I will just warn you, that from all the reading I've done on this topic, it is extremely unlikely that they will be able to fix themselves. If they do go to an IC/Psychiatrist and get medication, its still very very unlikely that you end up with a person who won't reoffend. SO take this for what its worth and do you own research. NPD and you throw on top of that Sex Addiction, and anxiety..... GOOD LUCK, that's a recipe for a life of pain if you stay his spouse.

I know the OBS is so glad she is not with him any longer and he is now my exes problem, and sorta of mine b/c I have children with my ex. Its a long long road to recovery if they even want it. And even then, they don't really change. That is my experience. If you have the ability to choose to leave, that would be the wise one. Sell the house, and start your recover by going NC. He will continue to fuck up his life, and you have the ability to leave that behind. Don't let him use the charm to get you back, b/c he will soon be using that charm on someone else.

(((PurpleReign))) sending you hugs you have been heard. It is not easy dealing with the disordered. Like you I didn't know what was off in my M only that something felt terribly wrong and the A's began to expose the disorder until I had my ex diagnosed.

He had several mental issues way before the affair and my FOO set me up to tolerate the intolerable.

This is it in a nutshell for me too. Took my latest therapist to get me to really see and accept this. Not that it makes it any easier. Everything has been a hurdle including leaving him. I am starting to see light at the end of the tunnel. I hope this for you too!

DevastatedDee you definitely understand what I’m going through although I wish you didn’t. I don’t trust my judgement as well as I used to. I just recall thinking ok that was off or that was a weird response. I pushed through red flags I shouldn’t have. My dad has mental issues and I sadly and unintentionally saw this as normal. My mother stayed through some horrific things and abuse my dad did. I tried so hard not to repeat that horror story yet here I am.

It’s true I could’ve never known the level of how dark he was. He presented himself as honorable, respectful, kind, and responsible. He’s literally none of that. They probably want to be all the things they misrepresent they are. But it always comes out eventually. They can’t keep it up and when it all unravels it does so in the most dramatic way. I do not know who this person is I’m divorcing. I just see a crazy person with no morals. So it makes healing even harder. The divorce will make it easier not to be exposed to the dysfunction. But it’s not an instant way to heal. It’s going to take time to fully accept it all.

Thanks so much for responding and sharing what you’ve been through.

@HalfTime2017 thanks so much for responding. You’re right on the money about what NPD is. It’s so unfortunate it was introduced in your life via cheating. Your description sounds just like my stbx. Same background. My stbx MIL is a complete narcissist too and has borderline personality disorder on top of it. Just a soup of mental illness hell. Hence why I stopped all fertility treatments. I just couldn’t do that to an innocent child.

I am a Psych major and I’m in grad school for my masters. Plus after he was diagnosed back in 2008 I read everything I could get my hands on about NPD. I had to realize he was a covert not a malignant narcissist. Same goal and disorder but they present differently. That diagnosis gave me my first taste of freedom from his crazy. I realized he was a manchild and a bully. And that’s how I responded to him from there on out. But you add sex addiction on top of that and you get what he is today. So no nothing good can come of this and I know it. The affair itself along with the strippers/prostitutes sealed the already dead deal. These are not healthy people and the odds of them getting better is at 0.01% Honestly no one in my field likes to have a narcissist as a patient. They’re very manipulative and hard to impossible to treat.

I think I’m just feeling the heaviness of it all. Just hearing from others that get it makes me not feel so isolated and alone. I was starting to feel like no one else see’s the crazy but they do. My friends and family see it now. I don’t hold his secrets anymore. Although telling anyone about his desire to knock up his cheating co conspirator is embarrassing and difficult. I’ve only shared that here. I think that example alone shows how depraved he is. So you are doing the right thing by keeping a close eye on that trash of a man.

It will only get better the longer I have no contact with him. I have so many positive things going my way. I’m trying so hard to focus on that.

@Crazyblindsided. Thanks so much for acknowledging me. Since I can’t express myself or be heard by my stbx this means a lot. I hesitated writing this and hitting send several times. I thought to myself, this has to sound completely nuts! What kind of person cheats AND desires to have a child out of the affair. Well I’m sure you all have heard it all and my story is no exception.

It just goes to show how sick he really is. Because I don’t care how primal that need is, no healthy person thinks like that. He claims soon as the thought was there it was gone. Lies! He literally asked the cow if she would untie her tubes if they were ever tied in the first place. He didn’t use condoms so yeah it was all intentional. When I heard this I should’ve walked right then and there. I think I’m finally dealing with this trauma. He’s a low life POS for ever contemplating this. There is no coming back from it.

I’m working so hard to process everything. I get the how, where, when. Maybe not so much the why me part. I could have easily married someone healthy too. Just because I had an abusive childhood doesn’t mean I deserved to be with someone so broken and cruel. I’m usually a huge proponent of getting therapy but this go around I truly don’t want to. I’m tired of going to therapy for other people’s brokenness. I might change my mind down the line but I’ve had really amazing therapist. I’ve done the homework of how this happened. They would be telling me what I already know.

My biggest regret was not acting fast enough after my last one said I had been living with an abuser. She was the first one to just say it plainly. That was in 2019. I should’ve filed then. But my lizard primal brain took over. I tried to claim what was mine and save a marriage that was DOA and then Covid happened. The narc fckd up our finances even more and now it’s history. I do have another chance to make this all right and finally gtfo. In a strange way I’m glad he kept showing his dysfunction. He could only keep the charm up if I didn’t talk about the affair. Go figure.

I am the only one who can save myself. I plan to do so.

Have you looked into trauma bonding? It's caused by the intermittent reinforcement that NPDs do. Dr. Ramani has a good YouTube video on it & may provide you with some clarity on why some of the feelings pop up when you're in the letting go phase.

Remember, what you've seen lately is who he really is. The image he tried to create for you was all smoke & mirrors. The psychologist that gave my XH his diagnosis said that XH was extremely selfish & was only interested in his own pleasures & didn't really want to maintain a personal relationship.

DevastatedDee you definitely understand what I’m going through although I wish you didn’t. I don’t trust my judgement as well as I used to. I just recall thinking ok that was off or that was a weird response. I pushed through red flags I shouldn’t have. My dad has mental issues and I sadly and unintentionally saw this as normal. My mother stayed through some horrific things and abuse my dad did. I tried so hard not to repeat that horror story yet here I am.

Don't beat yourself up over any of this. Seriously. I was ignorant of this flavor of fucked up so things that I now see as red flags in hindsight wouldn't have been red flags with a normal person. I've had to forgive myself for overlooking things that honestly weren't clear enough to qualify as red flags. Certainly not if you balanced one thing that seemed off against the 95% of things that seemed fantastic. I had great parents and should have been in a wonderful position to judge what a healthy relationship looked like. And yet here I am, right along with you.

It's kind of like the movie The Sixth Sense. You can watch the whole thing and at the end go "OMG HOW DID I NOT SEE THAT" and it all becomes so clear. But were you dumb for not catching it? No. It was designed for you to not catch on.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:45 PM, Thursday, January 13th]

Don't feel bad for being fooled. I knew my ex-wife since we were 12 years old.

I thought I knew her inside and out as we had grown up in the same small town, in the same grade. Repressed crazy always comes out, no accounting for it unless you find someone who will admit to actively managing their shit.

Leafields yes I’m well aware what trauma bonding is. I’ve had to struggle with that in the past. Luckily I’m not dealing with that at the moment. I’m dealing with the reality and heaviness of it all. He is a very sick man. I’m seeing the psychosis more and more with each encounter. So that’s the hard part. I’m divorcing a stranger. Yet he was someone I lived with for 17 years. It feels off.

It’s just nothing I can do but get more distance. If I can just push through these next few weeks that’s a major hurdle to overcome. After that is the divorce process which I hope it’s as quick as possible. Soon I will be able to just communicate through my attorney only. I can’t wait.

@DevastedDee you’re right. I shouldn’t beat myself up. I never invited this mess in my life. Not my fault he’s so fckd up. You’re also right that anyone can be fooled. We don’t have to have an abusive background to find a con man. They don’t tell you right off the bat they are the worst partners in the world.

When I think of getting out there and dating after all of this I’m so afraid I’ll find another crazy dysfunctional person. But I have to remind myself that not everyone is broken like this. I don’t ever want to meet anyone like this again. It’s still scary to me that they actually exist.

I was fooled twice! The second one, where I thought I was so smart and saavy is the one that killed my soul.

I can weed out most of the red flag wavers, but there are some people who are just so good at this that I don't stand a chance.

They aren't just good at fooling us, they are good at fooling themselves. And when you have trusting individuals (us) who couldn't imagine living life with a rubber suit on with full mask that looks like us, walks like us and talks like us how are we to know?

The most impactful part of the healing journey is forgiving yourself. Forgive that you couldn't have known. Forgive that you did the best you could under those circumstances. Forgive so you can give yourself the grace you deserve to fully heal and live a better life for you. Understand that you will take what you learned and use it wisely but that you cannot compensate for someone who is broken enough to wear a perfect uniform of love and kindness masking an inferno of turmoil inside. That doesn't change your integrity; it only changes theirs.

In time you will love and trust yourself even more. It's part of the outcome we get after we process and heal enough. Just wanted to give you some hope.

(((PurpleReign)))

PurpleReign, I am right there with you. Married 17 years. Made excuses for all the red flags that I encountered. It's been almost three years since DDay and still no remorse (he says I neglected him and he needed warmth and love so he found it elsewhere - wedding vows be damned! He was going to get what he wanted wherever he wanted). And now in the midst of D, he wants to fight the law about how much alimony I get and how much of his pension and 401k. He says I don't deserve that much and I'm just a money grubber. Seriously? I told him to consider it reparations for his cheating and abuse. To this day he will tell me how wonderful AP was, how much better of a person she is than I could ever be, and in the same breath ask me to negotiate on something or see things his way. No healthy person would think insulting someone would make them see things their way. I understand the crazy making. I do. And it was tough to let it go. But, like you, after much research, I now understand and I just want to move forward. Is all this fair? Of course not. Do I wish I saw the red flags and ran early on? Of course (but I wouldn't have my son if I did, so that's a positive). But I had no reason to know about this type of situation before. Now that I have educated myself about it, I am hoping they will be easier to spot in the future. I don't feel bad or embarrassed that I was duped. NPD people are master manipulators. The mask is there from day one. STBXH says I made him into this. I correct him and say you've always been this way, you were just hiding it as long as you got what you wanted. So I stand up for myself, keep my eyes open and learn from the future. He is making D extremely difficult as I expected and my understanding is NPDs do certain things during a D (mine is no exception).

Find some peace in knowing that this is truly him, not you. You are still a good person and are dealing with all this with grace. Be kind to yourself. You are not alone.

I just recall thinking ok that was off or that was a weird response. I pushed through red flags I shouldn’t have. My dad has mental issues and I sadly and unintentionally saw this as normal. My mother stayed through some horrific things and abuse my dad did. I tried so hard not to repeat that horror story yet here I am.

Girl, same here... SO much same. Despite ALL of my best efforts not to, I totally married someone just like my dad. And I had the same WTF thoughts too.

But like Dee said - you are not stupid. Neither is she and neither am I. Yes we ignored some red flags, but you know? I bet you anything you like that you and I will SEE those red flags way more quickly in the future, and more importantly, won't avoid them or brush them off. When you know better, you do better.

The whole fooling part... yeah mine fooled me. But at the end of the day, I am a trusting and honest and honorable person, so I don't blame myself that I got fooled; acting the way my xwh did would literally NEVER occur to me because no matter how mad/sad/whatever I am, I would never ever treat someone that way. That says a lot more good things about me than it does about him. And after all is said and done my honesty and trust are things I LIKE about me, so I will be damned if that douchehole is gonna 'take' those from me because of his dishonesty and dishonorable behavior. He doesn't get that win.

When I think of getting out there and dating after all of this I’m so afraid I’ll find another crazy dysfunctional person. But I have to remind myself that not everyone is broken like this. I don’t ever want to meet anyone like this again. It’s still scary to me that they actually exist.

You're right - not everyone is like this. You're right - it can be hard to tell if you're dealing with a disordered person. But for now? Just be with YOU. Don't even worry about dating. Work on you, enjoy reconnecting with yourself, your friends, your hobbies, your passions. Work on healing (and you are, even if it feels like it's 2 steps forward and 5 back some days). Get solid in your corner and with your boundaries. Then no matter what comes at you, you will know how to handle it. Hugs my friend - none of this shit is easy.

Hey PR,

I think we also need to put a little "blame" on societal norms and even vows. The whole "in sickness and in health" traps us— it’s just so hard to see where the line from that to "nope this is abuse" happens, especially when they are so skilled at love-bombing or manipulating us. We are told marriage is hard and there will be bad days/weeks/even years— and that is all true. But it is HARD sometimes to figure out what is slump or bad patch and what is outright not acceptable and not going to change. This is, IMO, partly why we write off so many of the red flags.

As the others have said, give yourself grace for being the one who gives the benefit of the doubt. For being the one who sees the best in people. For trying for so long to fix a marriage.

Better days are ahead— really. And NC is a key piece. Things only get clearer, calmer, as you get more distance and perspective.

(And I also thought I had found the "good guy" in my WH after having been with cheaters before. He absolutely wanted to be the person he presented to be with me- he fooled himself and me. The whole thing sucks.)

Hang in there.

I'm sorry that he's put you in this position. I think sometimes you have to give yourself permission to let go.

I think it's hard for a BS that wants to R and has taken their vows seriously to let go. It says, "in sickness and in health" right there in the contract. My W knew that I was depressed at the time she initiated her A. She blamed it on a job loss but it was in large part because she was distancing herself from me. But instead of feeling that commitment to stay with me through those hard times, she used it as one more reason to go off and pursue her own happiness.

Fortunately, she's not that person any more. But I would never want to be that person.

But marriage vows aren't just a personal promise. They're a promise between two people who are mutually committed to the relationship.

It's one thing if someone is physically or emotionally ill and can no longer be the best partner. There's a commitment there to try to work through that. But when mental illness or addiction lead a WS to betray that commitment, when they're unwilling or incapable of upholding that commitment, you have a right to say, "No more."

I think we also need to put a little "blame" on societal norms and even vows. The whole "in sickness and in health" traps us— it’s just so hard to see where the line from that to "nope this is abuse" happens, especially when they are so skilled at love-bombing or manipulating us. We are told marriage is hard and there will be bad days/weeks/even years— and that is all true. But it is HARD sometimes to figure out what is slump or bad patch and what is outright not acceptable and not going to change. This is, IMO, partly why we write off so many of the red flags.

I think this a very true. I know I stayed longer because of "vows" and wanting an in-tact family. The abuse was insidious and then covered up with some type of lovebombing/honeymoon stage.

I could have written this. I have written a post like this many times.

Two things I always consider first when hurting.

They are Npd. They have studied you. They intentionally pick the things that will hurt you most. They make sure you are aware of their new plan

How do you know these details about your ex and his gf? Why are you speaking to him? No contact is zero. If you must, these conversations should be short to the point and grey rock. Your letting him in to hurt you again. You shouldn’t be discussing these things.

I pass ExNpd apartment to get to grocery and my fav store. His apt faces the street. I convinced myself ,I can use a public street. Otherwise it would add several miles to avoid and go around another route.

I saw things. Women , their joy , their visits. They drive the vehicle I used to drive. Etc. I had to realize I was hurting myself. I wanted to see. It upset me for days. I finally chose to drive the extra miles. And not hurt. I wasn’t healed.

Now enough time has passed. I don’t think of him. I feel nothing. Not shame not pain. I’ve actually used that road a few times. And forgot he lived there. Never looked. It made me smile.

You have to protect yourself from your wanting to know. He’s hoping you are hurt by it.

It’s a temporary urge. He will be onto something else soon. Very soon. I’m not sure he would really want to be tied to child support. Ever. It would intrude.

Your giving him normal thoughts. That normal people have about children. He’s not normal. He’s sick in these thoughts and plans too. His child would suffer greatly. It will never be over the rainbow. For anyone. He will never live happily ever after.

I can’t tell you how many times my ExNpd has reinvented a new self. A new direction. In truth. He’s mirroring his new gf. He becomes whoever he sees. For awhile

It’s painful to accept and let go. Yet it is the biggest part of healing My ex has brain damage from alcohol. It changed him for the worst. Everything was Npd x 1000. It became insane violent and dangerous. It still is.

It was interesting. Because of the brain damage I could see his Npd so clearly. He became so sloppy at it yet still had Npd actions. It’s scary to see how they think. It’s evil. It helped me to accept.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 4:18 PM, Sunday, January 16th]

I can’t tell you how many times my ExNpd has reinvented a new self. A new direction. In truth. He’s mirroring his new gf. He becomes whoever he sees. For awhile

If there's any consolation for those of us who married someone who mirrored us, it's that we really do like ourselves enough to marry us. We're awesome.