SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

4 years ago today my life changed forever at 8:06am with a simple intercepted text by accident 🥲. I was murdered mentally that day.
Thats all, thats my post today.

I know today being an antiversary is tough, but how are things going? Are you progressing in R or living in limbo?

We are definitely progressing. She’s become a fantastic pleasant person. Not as raw. I think about it everyday tho. Something dies that day that I just can’t put my finger on. I am a different person. In a lot of ways good but many ways not so much.

Humbled - I'm only a couple months shy of my own 4yr antiversary, and not in R.

Still think of it every day.

Also a changed person - some ways good, some ways not so much.

Just sending hugs and strength for a difficult time.

Something dies that day that I just can’t put my finger on. I am a different person. In a lot of ways good but many ways not so much.

Yes, same for me at 2 years. Glad to hear you are progressing.

In 3 weeks it'll be 4 yr antiversary of DDay #2, when she admitted it was physical.
I think of it every single day, from when I wake up, until I go to sleep. This shit ain't for the weak at heart.

5 years out here. Not the D-Day anniversary yet, but Halloween is when the physical affair began in earnest (as far as I know). I can relate. I am a different person. I often feel "deconstructed" and not nearly as put together as before. Frankly, sometimes I feel I must be dissociating on some level (I noticed this feeling began when I hit POLF hard at three years after D-Day). It's like I'm a meta-observer to the existential/mid-life crisis this forced on me.

Here's something that may help: I've read about the process of liminality. Liminality is forced onto a betrayed spouse. In some ways, I think the experience of liminality for betrayed husbands may be more acute. I don't know why, I just do. I liken it to the lyrics of "Rocket Man" by Elton John. You're cast out into space. You miss the wife you thought you had (but she was never really that person). Now you're kind of drifting between worlds in a spacesuit, trying to figure out what/where your destination is and where it should be.

And I just don't feel the same about my wife as before. I don't see her in the same light; it took something substantial out of my love for her. I still have fondness and affection. I certainly respect her as the mother of our children. We still have sex constantly (just like before D-Day). I even have fun with her and enjoy her company. In fact, she's embraced most of my interests and plunged right in, so we do a lot together.

Just not like it was before. I don't see her as a lifelong companion. The feeling tone is more like a FWB or a girlfriend I'm holding at arm's length (and I'm surprised at that, because as a younger man I don't think I would ever have seen or felt about a woman in this casually distant light). I don't feel like my heart is open to authentic intimacy with her. This may just be a permanent thing. I don't know when or if I ever will feel differently.

I read men coming here 10, 15, 20, 40 years later and they are suddenly triggered by something and having profound regret they stayed. It seems like so often, WW's hold back on true transparency, the whole truth and authenticity. And it seems passingly rare for a WW to open up, own her actions, develop a wholesale change of heart and mind and embrace a better way to help her husband heal.

The heart knows, the spiritual heart, and men's hearts simply won't accept this inauthenticity, even when WW's think they have "safely" traversed the crisis. You read about faithful men years later simply hanging it up, and WW's who are confused because they thought they had successfully rug swept. You read about reconciliation efforts foundering on the rocks after the 5-year mark, and my theory is this is because betrayed spouses' minds are finally settling down and thinking more clearly at this stage. When this occurs, they seem to often realize the infidelity attack and abuse was such profound disrespect and dishonor they can't stomach it.

It bunches my stomach in knots to contemplate it. It makes me fearful about staying for the wrong reasons. But I'm still here.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:43 AM, Wednesday, November 3rd]

I am so sorry, Humbled 123. This experience does feel like a death.

Thumos, I'm not a man, but something about your post resonates with my experience, even though I'm not as far out as you. I had to google "liminality," and there's something about it that fits.

What does POLF mean? I'm sorry; I'm new here and many of the acronyms are still hard for me to figure out.

POLF is "plain of lethal flatness" - it's a stage of simply not feeling much at all.

Plane of lethal flatness. That's where I am a lot of days. It makes me feel more broken than the hurt and anger ever did.

13 months out

(I haven't updated my thread but I've been reading SI A LOT. I will update in the next few days)

despite a great amount of effort from my WW and the time and energy we are putting into R, I feel mostly numb, incredibly sad, in a way, dead.

I think that Thumos describe this feeling perfectly.
I've barely any anger. Just an immense sense of sadness and loss.
I'm am a completely different person.
I lost my light. I lost my love for life. My inner child feels dead.
I am silent most of the time.
I spend most of the time alone. I don't mind that.
I read a lot, listen to numerous amazing lectures on philosophy. spirituality, growth.
I workout a lot. It has become a powerful practice of self-discipline and self-mastery.
I feel like I left and went on a samurai training journey on my own.

I'm arriving at the conclusion that infidelity is impossible to "fix".

There will never be true healing and reconciliation, just compromises.

Things will never be like "before". You can only learn to live with the pain and loss.

EDIT: I realize that this feels darker and more hopeless than I actually feel. today I feel particularly blue and Thumos's pot has really hit me. Things are actually getting better. Perhaps I should tka the time and organize my thoughts and write down my journey to track positive progress

[This message edited by alucard at 4:19 AM, Wednesday, November 3rd]

Happy anniversary of the day you got to know what your life REALLY was about! No, I’m not sarcastic, I view my dday anniversary as the freedom day, freedom from projection, freedom from believing in something that didn’t actually exist, freedom from illusion and personal compromise.

My post isn’t meant to stir any conflict but balance the R argument, at least for new joiners who may read and feel disheartened by the posts on your thread.

With that in mind it is worth mentioning that both the OP’s and Thumos’s WSes have done minimal work to deserve the gift of reconciliation. Not only did they lie their way through every minute of dday, as most WSes do when caught, but they have continued to do so and both posters are still unsure, 4 and 5 years out, if they have the truth. I won’t get into the semantics here of "nobody ever has the entire truth unless you’ve been there with them during the affair", you know what I’m talking about, the factual truth of when/where/how regarding the affair.

Their WS’s reconciliation concept is basically "act nicely and behave lovingly and I’m sure the BS will get over it one day, or at least shut the F up about it".

With that in mind I’m not amazed they both feel the way they do.

Reconciliation has many facets for many people. Some people rug sweep, others don’t wish to rug sweep but have to as one partner isn’t willing to work through the hard process of R and they also don’t wish to divorce. And then there’s the hard R work which comes with a lot of pain for BOTH the BS and WS, in addition to the self recovery work for BOTH partners which often leaves you feeling emotionally naked, exhausted, spent, but the results are authenticity, genuineness, safety, closeness, admiration and the list can go on.

For me my love towards my husband pre dday included a lot of pride for the person (I thought) he was, a good husband, a good father, a good child to his mother. I won’t get into the entire process where we both realised that I convinced myself he was all those things ignoring the parts where he actually wasn’t any of them. Bottom line on dday I lost all that pride and admiration like all of us do for our cheaters.

He wasn’t the good moral, honest man I thought he was. There was nothing to be proud of. I married a liar, deceitful, cheating, horrible man. He fell of that pedestal hard.

But… and here comes the big but… here I stand, 4 years later, realising I have a new found pride for the man who didn’t waver from all the work I demanded of him if he wanted to remain married to me. I’ve seen him at his worst, crying realising his shit coping mechanisms, his double standards, his selfishness, entitlement, he’s done IC, MC, we’ve spent probably hundred of hours talking about the affair, our FOO, what happened, how it happened, even about how our pickers were obviously broken as we both chose each other based on our FOO unmet needs.

During these 4 years we unpicked ourselves and put ourselves back together individually and as a couple and interestingly my WH was only capable of this work once he owned up to every lie on dday 2, four months after dday 1. I could see it happening in front of my eyes. On that day, as he unpacked it all, you could see the abandonment, the letting go of control, the desire to stop playing the deceit game. I do not believe the work a WS has to do can happen whilst they are still covering their asses. It’s impossible. In order to become a better person you need to own up all your shitty ways. ALL OF THEM!

No, he wasn’t perfect in this work, he still isn’t. We still find little unprocessed moments and I’m not sure this process ever ends. During the last 4 years we also drafted what our life together should look like as I also decided what MY own life should look like, with or without him in it.

Do I see him differently? Yes of course. The pedestal is gone. Am I sad at points that we have that on our marriage history? Yes. Can I guarantee he won’t ever cheat again? Nope, I can’t guarantee that about anyone.

I can though say I’m happy, not in my fairytale pretend world pre dday but in my current real and authentic world today.

Humble I didn’t believe this was possible either. I’m a very black and white person, once a cheater always a cheater type of beliefs, I didn’t believe my husband had it in him or that it will ever be enough. I have no advice for you and it pains me to read between the lines and see you’re still struggling a lot.

Yes perhaps you were murdered that day emotionally and mentally (like most of us) but that doesn’t mean that YOU can’t emerge stronger and build the life you want to build for yourself.

Thumos really nails it..

And it seems passingly rare for a WW to open up, own her actions, develop a wholesale change of heart and mind and embrace a better way to help her husband heal.

Coming up on 2nd anniversary of DDay #2, and am really beginning to understand that this relationship will probably never feel 100% safe and right. That said, neither would another. I've been burnt so badly over the years, I just know I will never really 'rest' in a relationship again. Things aren't bad, in fact they feel pretty good... I believe that she's doing the work and that she's committed. We'll go forward and enjoy our lives, but it will always be a leap of faith.
It's good that I may end up married to a better person who did all the right things, but it's a bitter pill sometimes.
Part of me wants her to find a way to somehow be even better than THAT. Like I want the reward for eating this shit sandwich to be more than just a clean plate. We HAD a clean plate the day we took vows..

Sometimes, I really feel for her and other WS's. Broken people that have to somehow find the strength to fix themselves just to get a foot back in the door - only to find they STILL have to somehow fix the damage they left on their spouse - maybe only to find that their BS was hoping for a little something more. I'm glad I can empathize, and appreciate the effort - otherwise I'd just feel drained.

With that in mind it is worth mentioning that both the OP’s and Thumos’s WSes have done minimal work to deserve the gift of reconciliation. Not only did they lie their way through every minute of dday, as most WSes do when caught, but they have continued to do so and both posters are still unsure, 4 and 5 years out, if they have the truth.

This is certainly true, and I do present this information in the backstory in my member profile.

That said, while I’ve never added it up there seem to be an awful lot of folks here on SI in the same boat or a very similar one.

And a curiously high number of people who show up years later regretting they tried to R, or finding out that their "former" wayward spouse repeated and is now wayward again.

It’s striking how often this occurs like clockwork, or how many people find themselves in some form of limbo.

And a curiously high number of people who show up years later regretting they tried to R, or finding out that their "former" wayward spouse repeated and is now wayward again.

Absolutely. Alongside a number of BSes returning, having divorced their first wayward, after finding out they’ve been betrayed again by a new partner. It’s called life…

I’ve never said R is a guaranteed success. In fact I’ve added that I cannot guarantee my own WH won’t cheat again. Statistically he may do, but one thing I know for sure, he faced demons that I never thought existed, he exposed himself like I never thought he was capable of. I’m not talking just about the A, I’m talking about HIM.

Of course I’m sad at points that he chose to do this to get us here, but I’m also proud of the person he’s choosing to be each day when he chooses gratitude rather than entitlement, each day he chooses vulnerability and authenticity rather than arrogance and unspoken resentment.

In the meantime I’ve also worked bloody hard to face my own demons. To build a life where I understood I don’t need him, I just want him in my life as long as he respects my boundaries.

Between you and me I’m yet to find someone who’s WS REALLY did the work and the BS also worked hard to heal themselves, who is still struggling years later. I may not post a lot but I do read a A LOT and I’ve done so for the last 4 years. Most of the times people returning to either state they are still in a miserable marriage or their WSes cheated again, when asked of the work they (both) did, they will quote some superficial stuff such as "they (WS) promised they won’t do it again", "they changed and became really nice for a while", but when they get pushed more you find out one of them did no work whatsoever. Either the BS kept resenting the WH and plotted revenge or the WS made empty promises to quiet the BS.

I’ve also seen BSes stuck in pain because they refuse to do their share of the work and I’ll admit it, although I hate to generalise, this seems to mostly apply to male BSes who perhaps view IC as humiliating, view vulnerability as a sign of weakness. On that note I do wonder how much work Humble did on his own healing. Away from the affair and his WS, what were the actions taken to feel safe, to heal, to progress, to grow?

In fact there are several such examples right now in General sadly where either the BS or the WS did no work, I’m sure you know the threads I’m talking about.

It is also ok to decide the A was a dealbreaker, as a BS we don’t owe second chances to our WSes. I gave myself 5 years max post dday to decide if I still wish to remain married to WH once he got his head out of his ass and started working hard at it. I knew it may not be enough regardless what actions he takes. In fact I was convinced it won’t work no matter what he does. During these 5 years (one left) I built the life I wanted (with huge adversity as we also had a pandemic) and worked on my emotional, mental and financial health to ensure that I will be able to divorce if I realise it’s a dealbreaker regardless of his work. That’s ok too. The concept of being in limbo is breaking my heart, truly, for all those people who took that path (for various reasons).

I’ve also seen BSes stuck in pain because they refuse to do their share of the work and I’ll admit it, although I hate to generalise, this seems to mostly apply to male BSes who perhaps view IC as humiliating, view vulnerability as a sign of weakness

I find this reasoning off. It appears to be a version of what I call the "keep schtupping that chicken" fallacy. The idea that just a little more talk therapy is going to ease the digestion of the shit sandwich doesn't seem to line up with the reality of what so many BS’s who show up here year's later are expressing. If we are empathetic, I think we should avoid the usual “well maybe it's just a dealbreaker for YOU” or “maybe you just haven't worked hard enough” and try to delve a little deeper. Especially given the recent spate of research suggesting talk therapy has limited efficacy and a limited shelf life or sell-by date.

Nor does it seem likely that this phenomenon is just a "trick of the mind" as another poster recently put it.

More likely it seems to me it's how the brain actually works because it is supposed to. So … the series of thought processes outlined with startling accuracy in the book "Cheating in a Nutshell." If you dismiss the book because it isn’t "pro R" you’re missing out and you’re also committing the genetic fallacy. The book is chock full of solid research.

In any case I think the more likely explanation for what we could dub the "lag phenomenon" is that in certain individuals — and since you’ve generalized this more to men, I think I can agree — the modal intuition and logic and perhaps an implanted "law written on their hearts" is so inherently strong that the brain simply won’t allow the issue to "rest." Likewise I would suggest that too many men, including myself, feel that they must self-sacrifice for the greater good.

This is a noble impulse that has now been denigrated but along with many other factors it probably made civilization possible. Yet in this case, this normal and healthy (and desirable) masculine trait works against them.

Now it is perhaps a bit like Papillon who refuses to accept the brute fact of his brutal imprisonment.

Perhaps so many men have self sacrificed but many men’s minds simply won’t allow them to accept the shit sandwich as a poor substitute for fine dining. To mix in some more metaphors, they are like Winston in "1984" - they know exactly how shitty things are and refuse to assent to the propaganda. They've seen the emperor has no clothes. They've seen this fact in all its ugly nakedness. And they will not accept the lie, even if positioned as a "noble lie."

ETA: For instance, I've said elsewhere that every single betrayed spouse now knows exactly the kind of person their wayward spouse is, and it doesn't line up at all with the illusions they had before. They also know indubitably that they as the faithful spouse and their marriage (which, according to the increasing therapeutic consensus is usually a good marriage) wasn't enough for the unfaithful spouse. The unfaithful spouse "needed" something else, and sought it out. So any protestations or professions of undying love ring hollow in the face of unloving actions writ large.

Thus, perhaps a certain contingent of betrayeds (and maybe it's mostly men) cannot sustain the cognitive dissonance that is required -- with all of the requisite emojis and exclamation points and happy clappy talk -- and so they "freak out" 10, 20, 40 years later because they are having a moment of true, awful clarity.

Thus their brain cries out once again, desperately, for freedom. With more poetic language, a book like "The Way of the Superior Man" makes this case quite well, even though the book never addresses being a betrayed man.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:07 PM, Thursday, November 4th]

I do not view R as a shit sandwich. I chose R willingly and freely in the hope of making my life as joyful as possible. A shit sandwich ... that would have ruined joy forever. I don't understand choosing a shit sandwich.

My W's A is her problem. She fucked up. I didn't. I feel good bout myself for not fucking up - I know I'm imperfect, and that's one area in which my imperfections did not interfere.

If you think R is a shit sandwich, you have work to do on yourself. Maybe you're holding on to your pain. If that's the case, you can get help letting your pain go. Maybe your gut is telling you that R is not for you. If that's the case, you can D. (Read some of waitedwaytoolong's posts if you mistakenly think you made your bed, so you have to lie in it forever.)

No matter what, though, my reco is to not force yourself to stay.

Wow! I am sorry that everyone is here, but I am relieved at the same time. I am 4 years and 4 months from Dday. I was so completely crushed when I found out but it took me a couple of years to understand the magnitude of her affair. Like Humbled said, I was also murdered that day. My marriage, the most important thing in my universe, was disintegrated into dust. I realized my wife was not who or what I thought she was. I am not who or what I thought I was. Everything, my whole adult life is a lie. What I thought was, never existed. I now feel ugly. I have no purpose. I am a nobody. Before I was the husband, the stud, the father, the provider. Now I am nothing. We rarely speak about her affair but when I bring it up she snaps at me that I will never get over it. She tells me that I have OCD and I do not think like other people. I think about the affair every single day from when I wake up till I go to sleep. It is bearable now. I no longer have panic attacks at the thought of him on top of my wife. Life has pretty much lost all of its shine. I find very little pleasure in anything. I quit exercising, I drink beer all day, and we have not had sex in a little over two years. Sex is just to hurtful for me, it mentally messes me up. I believe her affair was a sexual trauma for me.
After reading here I feel more normal.

Coming up on 2nd anniversary of DDay #2, and am really beginning to understand that this relationship will probably never feel 100% safe and right. That said, neither would another. I've been burnt so badly over the years, I just know I will never really 'rest' in a relationship again.

I know I'm not remotely who anyone should ask for R stuff, but this stood out to me. This sounds like staying because you feel that your WS ruined you for any other man/woman. Like "well, you broke me, guess I might as well stay because I'm not ever going to be happy with anyone again anyway". Is that really how it feels?

perhaps an implanted "law written on their hearts" is so inherently strong that the brain simply won’t allow the issue to "rest."

^^^This so aptly, and succinctly speaks to my own personal truth (and I'd wager many, if not most men.)

Nothing but congrats for those that fancy the above alien to them.