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Reconciliation :
Reconciliation When No Contact Isn't Feasible

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 Grieving (original poster new member #79540) posted at 10:30 PM on Saturday, October 30th, 2021

I would love advice on how to deal with an affair and move on with life when no contact isn't really feasible. Has anyone experienced this?

Long story short, I found out 15 months ago that my husband of 20 years had an intense, six-month emotional and physical affair with a coworker. Up until that time we both would have characterized our marriage as healthy, happy, and fulfilling, and he has never blamed me for the affair. He has worked hard to rebuild trust and repair the damage he has caused. Things will never be the same, but I feel we are on a good path toward reconciliation.

In the months after the affair came to light, my husband was willing to do whatever I asked him to save the marriage, but it was also clear that he didn't see cutting off all contact with his affair partner as reasonable or necessary. His perspective was that as long as each of them was being completely transparent with their spouses they could go back to a level of friendship that would allow them to have a collegial professional relationship (changing jobs isn't really a feasible option for either of them).

This was a very difficult issue for a year. I think he was holding out hope that things would go back to normal--that he and his coworker would go back to being colleagues and friends, and that he and I would be reconciled and I would trust him again.

Eventually, he came to the realization that a return to the pre-affair status quo wasn't going to happen, and he became much more explicit and intentional about keeping contact to the bare minimum and shutting down interactions that she initiated. That shift was huge for me, and it propelled us into a new stage of recovery and reconciliation.

She's still around, though. We're in a small community with many overlapping social connections. Today, on a Saturday, my husband has spent about three hours dealing with workplace drama that his former affair partner is at the center of. He's being transparent and apologetic, and I'm trying to be mature and understanding, but I feel depressed and exhausted over having this woman still connected to my life.

Thoughts? Advice? Commiseration? I don't have friends or family members to talk to about this stuff, and I'm on a waiting list for individual counseling (it's a six month wait, at least, in my area).

posts: 15   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8695928
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 11:09 PM on Saturday, October 30th, 2021

I allowed my fWW to have work only, but not friendly/personal contact with AP. This eventually resulted in her breaking even that agreement and propelling me eventually to ask for a D about a year after dday. She found a new job shortly after that. "Feasible" is a word that is balanced against losing your M.

Shirley Glass suggests this work only NC agreement can work, but I think it really makes things ten to a hundred times harder than true NC.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1479   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8695931
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BreakingBad ( member #75779) posted at 12:50 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

My fWH's first A was with a coworker. He broke it off prior to my discovery, and the proof of him breaking it off was what I later discovered that led me to know about it.

[To be a bit less confusing: first A was with a cOW. WH breaks it off, but then seeks other online OWs. Flirts with OW #2 and that fizzles within weeks. Continues to seek more online OW. Starts an EA/sexting relationship with OW #3 who lives states away and is single and oblivious to him being married. THAT #3 A is the relationship that I discover. When he is denying the A and I contact her, she is appalled that he is married & sends me screenshots of their communication. But within days after this Dday, I find evidence of the break up with cOW/A #1 (by rooting through his phone).]

So, he did initially continue to work with cOW #1. Same department in a medium-sized company (both peer colleagues, no supervisory relationship.)

Their jobs were in a fairly public cubicle-land and private offices & conference rooms in the building had lots of glass walls. But still, where there's a will there's a way....so I hated him continuing to go to that building every day. Really triggering for me.

Their jobs required little direct contact, except an occasional email. BUT that's how the flirting all started, so....still hated him working there.

COVID lock down started about 1 month post dDay and all workers in their office started working from home. That helped some.

fWH stopped office Skyping with her (and had already done so prior to dDay). COW's own FB posts confirmed they hadn't spoken personally in months when she posted a "cryptic" update on her own page on fWH's birthday lamenting how terrible it is when a former unnamed friend won't speak to you anymore and how much she misses their friendship rolleyes

Also he did disclose further emails from her after dDay--including one where she, again, said that she misses their talks. He showed me his business-only reply that ignored the personal touch she'd included at the end.

My fWH stayed remote (working from home) for the next year and more. They weren't required to go back and he was less stressed and more productive working from home. (Ya, maybe some of that was spending zero time on FB and FB messenger with OW because he deleted his FB page.)

What really helped, though, was that he did get another job in a completely different place. That helped my psyche a lot.

So, my nudge would be to consider having him start exploring other options for work, if at all possible.

[However, there is a bit of glee in knowing that the cOW really is getting shutdown by your fWH when she reaches out.]

**edited for spelling**

[This message edited by BreakingBad at 1:16 AM, Sunday, October 31st]

Me=BW
WH had online affairs
Married 30 yrs now
2 kids, both in HS
Dday#1=2/7/20
Dday#2=2/12/20
Dday#3=2/17/20
Dday#4=11/25/20...1st A with cOW was actually 2 1/2 years
BW & WH in IC & MC. Working toward R, but day by day

posts: 77   ·   registered: Oct. 31st, 2020
id 8695938
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 12:57 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

Does your husband think that they can also stay friends when even working together without any personal communication is inconvenient? Are you sure that their affaire is over? If yes, how?

They still have every opportunity to continue their affaire. The fact that your husband thinks this way at least shows that he has no intention of giving up the EA, unless the PA still continues of course.

Does AP's husband know? How could he allow such a thing?

By the way,

Up until that time we both would have characterized our marriage as healthy, happy, and fulfilling

I'm sorry, but that can't be true for your husband.

posts: 563   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8695939
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 12:58 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

[This message edited by guvensiz at 7:00 PM, October 30th (Saturday)]

[This message edited by guvensiz at 1:00 AM, Sunday, October 31st]

posts: 563   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8695940
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 12:58 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

[This message edited by guvensiz at 6:59 PM, October 30th (Saturday)]

[This message edited by guvensiz at 12:59 AM, Sunday, October 31st]

posts: 563   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8695941
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 1:26 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

Guv,

I think happy people are completely capable of cheating.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1479   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8695944
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BreakingBad ( member #75779) posted at 1:42 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

guvensiz,

I'm sorry, but that can't be true for your husband.


I respectfully disagree.

While your point may be that he was clearly going outside of the marriage to get some of his OWN needs met, there is a distinction to be made here: That doesn't mean anything was wrong (even from HIS perspective) in the marriage. What was wrong was something within himself. And often there is something SO broken within a WS that it can't be fixed by or within the marriage. To fix it in healthy way, they would (and DO) need IC and often LOTS of it. Usually, something within them has been a big issue for years. But maybe they've hidden it or coped in other ways.

As another wise poster recently pointed out, no long-term, real-life relationship can compete with the brain chemical dump and the ego feel-good of a new, shiny A. WS "medicate" their needs with the A.

Just because a marriage can't solve every issue that the individuals within that relationship have doesn't mean the marriage isn't happy or satisfying to both people.

(Sorry I can't remember the name of the wise poster who said this recently to give proper credit--been reading on SI a lot the past couple of days)

Me=BW
WH had online affairs
Married 30 yrs now
2 kids, both in HS
Dday#1=2/7/20
Dday#2=2/12/20
Dday#3=2/17/20
Dday#4=11/25/20...1st A with cOW was actually 2 1/2 years
BW & WH in IC & MC. Working toward R, but day by day

posts: 77   ·   registered: Oct. 31st, 2020
id 8695947
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 3:48 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

I agree with what you both said, but I didn't approach it from that angle.

Of course, happy people are capable of cheating. But their happiness is not limited and much related to their marriage, their A is also happy, actually much more happier until they got caught.

I think the OP's husband is not sincere here. He may say that he was happy in his marriage, but that happiness was not so valuable that he feared losing it.

And OP said that they characterize their marriage as not only "happy" but also "healthy" and "fullfilling." How honest could it be for a cheating person to describe his marriage as healthy and fulfilling?

I just wanted to say this. Of course, cheating is 100 percent on cheater, and this cannot be a proof of the existence of the unmet needs, and even if there were, they can't be an excuse for cheating.

posts: 563   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8695950
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 4:44 AM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

From a small town myself (full transparency I’m divorcing my cheater) I understand how NC can be difficult however I believe your wayward had to have tried to distance himself by speaking to HR and being reallocated in the company so their paths didn’t cross, did he even try that?

him wanting to remain friends with the AP is him holding onto the EA side of the A, he is still putting their relationship first over yours otherwise that would have been a no brainer right?! Even if there was no wiggle room at work he could still close all doors on the relationship.

I think implementing the random FaceTime calls would be something to help you with peace of mind, as would a VAR in his car for short term and activating GPS ... again only until you’re more comfortable with this dynamic. Has he read ‘how to help your spouse heal from your affair‘ & 'not just friends'? I feel he needs more understanding in order to be truthful about bare minimum contact with AP... however keeping contact as friend, in any capacity is just fantasyland, someone is going to lose and I fear it’s normally the BS.

as gently as possible, is this emergency out of hours work? Can he prove the extra hours via a payroll ? one of the things remorseful WS are meant to do is make sure no red flags pop up, unusual work times is a red flag regardless if it’s innocent or not. I don’t understand how a work problem isn’t solved during work hours in a full office.

Edit: has he worked out his whys? him being sorry that it happened when you both would have classed the marriage as a good one but him not figuring out and communicating his 'why' is rug sweeping, i think that's a hurdle before things will feel less unsafe for you.

I do think reading more on infidelity recovery will help you self care until you can see someone, there is a good youtube channel called 'affair recovery' which is worth a look. If you are going to trust that your wayward is being honest but feel unease about AP then learning to detach and walk away is a great, but hard, skill to master, it's taken me months but I'm finding controlling my triggers and detaching instead of reacting and stewing is making life better. However the faster solution is for him to send a tailored NC notice when you're with him and WH word it in a way that AP knows that this is the end for them, her presence is not welcomed 100% outside of work and at work it's strictly business only, no personal talk at all, AP should seek/ask of help from someone else in the business, WH as last possible business contact but even then it's not going to be welcomed.

Your WH needs to ween himself off her already to recover from this!!

Good luck

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 5:29 AM, Sunday, October 31st]

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 216   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8695951
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 Grieving (original poster new member #79540) posted at 3:53 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

This0is0Fine, I am really sorry that happened to you. Knowledge that something like that is always a possibility is part of what makes my situation difficult.

Breaking Bad, Covid was somewhat similar for us. It gave us a reprieve because the two of them were working remotely. I've also seen similar behavior from my husband's affair partner in terms of "cryptic" postings on social media and sending out feelers that he shuts down.

Guvensiz, I appreciate your bluntness. You ask how I'm sure that the affair is over, and I don't have a good answer. "Sure" doesn't feel attainable for me anymore. I'm going on instinct and the evidence I have. Both point to the affair being over, and so that's my working assumption. You're also correct to point out the dissonance between someone saying they feel fulfilled and them having an affair. It's something that my husband and I have talked about a lot. I don't think he's consciously lying to me when he insists he was happy and fulfilled, but he might be lying to himself. For what it's worth, we were dealing with crisis and tragedy when the affair happened. That doesn't excuse it, but it makes it hard to tease out the whys and wherefores.

LostInHisFog, I agree that for the first six months after the affair came to light, his desire to keep the friendship was a prioritization of the affair relationship over our marriage and a self-deceived attempt to hold onto the emotional aspects of the affair. We were able to keep going despite that because he was simultaneously committed to honesty about all communication and to keep communication within the limits I requested.

From the day I found out for sure until now, he hasn't lied about communication with her that I know of (and I've developed a pretty sharp and cynical eye). The issue was that he still wanted the friendship and didn't agree that ending it was necessary, even though he was willing to do it to keep our relationship. That hurt, but I preferred that he be honest about how he felt. We still don't see this totally eye to eye, but the turning point this past summer was when he gave up hope of being friends.

has he worked out his whys? him being sorry that it happened when you both would have classed the marriage as a good one but him not figuring out and communicating his 'why' is rug sweeping, i think that's a hurdle before things will feel less unsafe for you.

This is what stuck out to me the most out of all the responses, and I mulled it over for quite a while last night. My husband has been pretty solid on the honesty, remorse, and making amends front, but he is slow to figure out his why. I suspect this is because it's tangled with the tragedy/grief that hit him in the time period around the affair. Total honesty and no more affair activity are hills I will die on, but I can give an honest, remorseful, hurting person time to figure out their why.

As for the work stuff right now, I'm not very worried that it's a continuation of the affair. I'm just resentful because I feel like I'm at a place of moving on, and yet there she still is, being her dumb self. It's hard to let that resentment go.

Thank you all for your responses. I am grateful for the gift of your time, and I wish I had found this place sooner. I haven't had a soul to talk to about any of this, and it has been hard.

[This message edited by Grieving at 4:33 PM, Sunday, October 31st]

posts: 15   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8695974
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 4:51 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

OK ... if you think your H is honest, it looks like his connection with ow is professional. But it's easier to stay faithful if the ap is out of the WS's life.

Have you discussed his getting a new job? Is he vulnerable to a sexual harassment complaint if she gets fired?

One of my W's motivations for her A was that our M was good, and she had more love to give. She was evolved enough to love 2 people at once. Not true, but it's what she thought. People in good Ms do, in fact, cheat.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26262   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8695983
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 5:12 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

I have shared this story a gazillion times here on SI.
Keep in mind that the only absolute rule in human interaction is that there is no rule. What I share now might or might not apply to your situation. What sites like SI are based on however is common, shared, experiences. In other words: if what I share resonates with 80% of those that read then it’s likely to apply to your situation.

Many years ago I managed a small department in an IT company. One of my team-members had a work-affair with a good female friend of mine. I didn’t know of it until it was over. On d-day he ended the affair and I have it on very solid grounds that both he and the AP committed to the affair being over. She worked in a different building and they could easily avoid daily contact, except for being occasionally at the same work-events (that he avoided the best he could) or the company cafeteria.

About 6 months later the AP left the company. I had been having occasional discussions with the BH and I know that for that time he had respected no-contact and worked his @ss off to save his marriage. At about 2 months from OW leaving the job he told me that the progress in reconciliation had been IMMENSE once his wife felt safer on NC. This despite him having fully enforced NC from day 1.

The non-logical part is that OW and BH still lived in the same city, the new job was less than a mile away, they had shacked up at her apartment… It wasn’t as if they were at it like bunnies at work or in the supplies room. The affair was very discreet the 2-3 months it lasted. Yet while there was the daily risk of even accidental contact… she – the BW – couldn’t commit to R.

I think that is the main issue with ongoing contact, even minimal. Your husband has chosen to remain in contact with the OW even in a minimal form. You say it isn't feasible - I counter with that it's feasible only either you or husband don't think the sacrifice is worth it... That in turn maybe shows the emphasis placed on the marriage.
Cutting her off completely – for example by switching jobs – would show you some serious commitment to saving the marriage. Meeting her by coincidence walking out of the mall or at some event would be exactly that – a coincidence – and not a choice as he has it now.

What’s this office drama crisis? As a manager I can tell you I avoid dramas and crises. An illness or serious issues at home isn’t drama – it’s reality and we deal with that as managers. Two people arguing over who get’s the window office or who used someone else coffee cup… that’s something they better solve themselves and if it impacts the work-environment then they better hope it doesn’t impact their ongoing employment!

Condensed version: I think even minimal ongoing contact makes the already difficult task of reconciling even harder. Near impossible.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10012   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8695986
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 Grieving (original poster new member #79540) posted at 5:20 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

Have you discussed his getting a new job? Is he vulnerable to a sexual harassment complaint if she gets fired?

We have discussed him getting a new job, but the cost/benefit analysis isn't great. In his line of work, a lateral move into a different workplace is exceedingly rare, and in the unlikely event it materialized, it would mean a geographical move that would radically and negatively disrupt our kids' lives and the life of an elderly family member we care for. It would also have serious financial consequences and force me to change jobs, too, which would disrupt what little financial stability and social support I have. He could change careers, but his skills aren't transferrable, and we live in a place where job opportunities with a living wage are few and far between. So again, we'd be looking at a move. He's spent the last year taking practical steps within his workplace to distance himself from her (shifting projects, moving offices, etc.), and over the longer term we're looking at earlier/different retirement options, although that's as much about feeling beat up by life and work in general as it is about the affair situation.

I don't think he's particularly vulnerable to a sexual harassment complaint. It was a consensual relationship between peers with no supervisory duties, and there is evidence that she made the first move and continued advances despite clear communication from him that he was done with the relationship. That said, workplace affairs are really effing messy, so who knows.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8695989
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 Grieving (original poster new member #79540) posted at 6:04 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

Bigger, that story is very helpful, and this is the core truth. It's a truth I knew nothing about before this experience:

I think even minimal ongoing contact makes the already difficult task of reconciling even harder. Near impossible.

I don't feel like I'm at the "impossible" stage. Like I said, him coming around to see that friendship/collegiality wasn't in the cards was a huge turning point for us; bigger than either of us thought it would be. The contact is transparent and ratcheted back to a level that isn't a deal breaker, or even a huge stumbling block to reconciliation. But it does make it harder, not because I'm constantly fearful that they'll fall back into the affair, but because it puts the messiness of it back in my face when I'm ready to move on, and I resent that.

You are also right that "feasible" is a calculus of what level of sacrifice I'm willing to make. At this point, working on our relationship while he keeps his job seems like a better path and safer bet than blitzing my financial security and/or uprooting my kids, leaving my job, and starting over again socially at my stage of life.

The workplace issue is difficult to explain without disclosing more about the line of work he's in, but I feel like the way he's handling it is in the ballpark of reasonable. He's made efforts to shift the handling of it to other people, and it looks like his affair partner may be taking a leave of absence for issues unrelated to the affair, which would be a win for everyone.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8695992
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 10:45 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

Grieving...

I just wanted to send hugs. This shir sucks. I'm sorry that you are here due to his shitty choices.

posts: 2017   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8696029
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HouseOfPlane ( member #45739) posted at 11:45 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

but it was also clear that he didn't see cutting off all contact with his affair partner as reasonable or necessary.


That’s for you only to decide. He can make a recommendation, but only you decide what is reasonable or necessary.

It’s an important point. If he still sees her, it is because you allow it. You’ve done the analysis on staying versus going, and you’ve made the decision. Not him, you. You are in charge.

A big part of recovering is taking control. You have to be in control, and as long as you are truly controlling their interaction, maybe this can work. Maybe.

Every now and then you need to exert that control. You need to say, "no, that crossed my boundary", and not give. It’s important.

Sending strength!

DDay 1986: R'd, it was hard, hard work.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?”
― Mary Oliver

posts: 2750   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2014
id 8696035
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 1:28 AM on Monday, November 1st, 2021

Greving,

You wrote, bare minimum and shutting down interactions that she initiated.

This says, I suspect, that while your WH might be sincere the OW still wants him and may persist in that fantasy for some time.

I think in most affairs one of them feels more jilted or dumped than the other.

The OW may still be in the affair emotionally.

The addiction of any affair is very powerful, and the sex is intense.

Does the OWs Husband know???

[This message edited by survrus at 1:29 AM, Monday, November 1st]

posts: 1073   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8696042
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 Grieving (original poster new member #79540) posted at 2:49 AM on Monday, November 1st, 2021

Thank you prissy. I don't know why it was your simple post that brought me to tears, but yes, this shit does suck.

House of Plane, I exerted myself today, and your post makes me feel a little better about it. I know that he's dealing with difficult issues at his workplace, but he needs to prioritize our relationship if he wants to keep it and wants it to be more than a hollow shell of what it was.

Servrus, you said,

while your WH might be sincere the OW still wants him and may persist in that fantasy for some time.

. . . The OW may still be in the affair emotionally. . . Does the OWs Husband know???

She is still in the affair emotionally, at least on some level. She's not a devious, terrible person, but she is not very stable, and she has not made the hard choices necessary to end the emotional entanglement. My sense is that the boundaries are going to have to stay hard and fast for a long time before she stops butting up against them. That is my husband's problem to deal with; he created it.

Her husband knows about the affair, as far as I can discern. When I found out about the affair I was pretty torn up thinking about him not knowing. I had some interaction with her at the time and told her that she needed to come clean to him, and shortly thereafter she told my husband that she had disclosed the affair. I didn't fully believe her, but the four of us encountered each other at a social event a short time later, and one look at his stricken face convinced me that he was aware of the affair, or at least aware of something serious. Something about it is off, though--what she says about her husband and marriage, and how she acts just don't add up. That's none of my business, though.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8696049
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gmc94 ( member #62810) posted at 3:49 AM on Monday, November 1st, 2021

Her husband knows about the affair, as far as I can discern

IMHO, that's not a great place to be. And seeing a look on his face doesn't really tell you anything. As I assume you've learned the HARD way, adulterers lie. A lot (and including your WH). So, who knows what the AP told her BH (eg that it's your WH stalking her -and it MAY be that the "serious" type "look" of which you speak could be more like "that's the guy that's been sexually harassing my wife" rather than the one that had an A with my wife). You really don't have a clue what she did/did not tell her BH, and, it may be that the BH has info for you that may become helpful or relevant to your healing journey, the level of honesty your WH is currently providing, etc. IOW, I can see a lot of benefit to comparing notes, and not much downside.

There are many others on SI who lived to regret NOT telling the OBS (other betrayed spouse). One member in particular, learned 1-2 or maybe even 2-3 YEARS after initial dday that the A went deep underground (ie her WH and the AP got REALLY good at hiding things - and they didn't work together). So, another dday. It was only at that point where the BW informed the OBS, and NC became firm and R truly began. IIRC, she and the OBS agreed to let each other know if something popped up / caused either to believe the A was ongoing (and she routinely posts that, given her experience, she REALLY wishes she had reached out to OBS on the initial dday and that a BS should tell the OBS sooner vs later - no matter what the WH has told the BS about the AP telling their spouse because, you know, adulterers will LIE - even to their APs). That member remains in/committed to R and is about 5+years out from initial dday (tho over the summer she discovered the AP has been following her SM, planned vacation at the same town BW and WH had been going for years, etc - she and her WH hired an attorney to get a cease & desist and I believe she again reached out to OBS to let him know what his WW was up to).

I would reach out to the OBS. At a minimum, to let him know that the AP is not respecting boundaries of NC / only work related communication. And don't be surprised for the OBS to say that according to his WW, it's the other way around. Or, it may be that the OBS doesn't want to hear about it, and that's ok too. IMO, ideally, both BS would be able to agree to just let each other know if their spidey senses get active. You don't have to be buddies or anything, but unless/until either decides to D, both BS have a mutual interest in (and benefit from), such an agreement. Two heads ARE better than one.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:53 AM, Monday, November 1st]

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3509   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8696060
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