SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am not a skilled writer or typist.

I am new here.

I am not sure what am I asking for here or what my goal is.

This may be long.

My wife and i have been married since 2001 so now over 20 years. I'd admit that our marriage has been rough for both of us. We have typically had a very hard time resolving anything ourselves or in marriage counseling (x2). We have been distant, sexless, loveless for the most part. We have raised two incredible kids that are now out of the house and in college. They are local in college and remain super close to us and we feel that our kids are our best accomplishment. They come home often and tell us most everything. I suspect they know of our troubles but we didn't fight much in front of them so i am not sure what to think about that. I never left my wife and have been 100% faithful to her. I always loved her. i have NEVER suspected that she had been unfaithful to me.

My wifes dad passed recently. He was a good man. My wife has been traveling since last year to her hometown to take care of him and her mom and sister. She had move into a spare bedroom sometime in July or early August.

On September 16th i call our phone carrier to discuss the crappy service we get at home, i told them about dropped calls and missed texts (for all 4 of us). the rep suggested i look at our call and text history to see if there were specific times etc where we had these problems. The timing of her suggestion of was either good or bad depending on how you look at it. I started looking at my wifes log history. there had been a call on the 15th to an area code i didn't know, the call lasted 76 minutes and i was in bed at that time. On the 16th there had already been a bunch of texts back and forth from the same number. We were heading to her hometown on the 17th for her fathers service that weekend and i checked again and there were a bunch of texts that day as well. i was curious so i googled the phone number and had a name and some history. the texting went on that whole weekend and then sunday she dropped me and the kids off at the airport at about 4:15pm. i asked what her plans were for that evening and she told me a dinner with an old girlfriend. I was skeptical and checked her text history when she left and there were multiple texts with the same phone number in question (and none with the girlfriend). i knew then she had lied to me. the texts stopped around 6:25 and started again around 10pm. there were a lot of texts the next day and the rest of the week. I knew i was literally watching her have what i guess i knew was some sort of relationship. i did some digging and sleuthing and found out more about this person, where he lived, worked etc. i found out he was out of the office for that week. I went back on our call logs as far as the carrier allowed which was July and saw that there had been two times where there had been a flurry of texts with this same number but not like the week i mentioned. I knew that he had grown up in her same hometown as her by this time. i was devestated to say the least. OMG. i've never felt more desperate. We spoke a bit on the phone that week and had some good talks. I was so emotional and couldn't help it. I was hoping she wouldn't notice as i was trying to hide it. the middle of the week she was at her family place in Maine (this i am certain of and he was definately 100% not there. they were coming back to her hometown home on friday and she was coming home to us on saturday. there were hundreds of texts that week. hundreds. morning, noon and night. we had a long talk on friday evening about 90 minutes. as we hung up i checked her log and she had been texting that number for about the last 45 minutes of our call. i was desperate so called back a bunch of time and no answer. about 45 minutes later she called and said her mom was crying and needed her. i checked the call log again and she had been on the phone with him for 43 minutes. she had lied again.

Saturday. she's coming home. i'd never felt more scared and emotional. tons of texts with him that day. i picked her up at the airport about 4:15pm. we got home, i lit a firepit and just came out with it. "who is?". she didn't hesitate one second. it was who i thought, she admitted it, she admitted lying to me. i was somewhat amazed that i was right about pretty much everything. i have a gut that i trust completely. it was a hard day. she admitted everything. she had dinner with him on that sunday. they hugged and kissed once. he was an old boyfriend from the 90's that lived together for 3 months and she ended it because he was not nice to her and probably cheated on her. They had run into each other back in July while out at dinner then coffee the next morning in their hometown (his dad had passed as well and he was visiting). he lives in the upper midwest now. she hadn't seen or spoken to him in 25 years. he is divorced and wtih a new woman with their kids. claims he is in a domestic partnership.

since that saturday i have asked a million questions, she has answered every one of them. there have been zero i don't knows or cant remember. contact in july surprised her. although i had seen all the text evidence (not the actual texts though) she mentioned a ton of their dialogue had been on facebook messenger. so what i thought i was seeing with the texts was only part of their contact since July). she has had zero contact with him since then the sunday call (as far as i can tell) and called and told him no contact the sunday after coming home. i have total access to her phone and computer. we have spent a ton of time together talking. for the 1st time in our marriage it seems that we can talk about everything with no fighting and a lot of honesty and understanding. we both agree with this assessment. we are hugging, but no sex. i believe her story almost 100%. its amazing that this event has had almost the total opposite effect on us that we both thought it would. we are closer. i'm not shitting myself either. we are. its like what else could we do besides divorce given our history. she admits she cheated. she has not blamed me once. she has taken all of the blame of her cheating.

fast forward to today. i made several mistakes that are really bothering me. i didn't read the text or messenger activity before she deleted them all. UGH. i wasn't present for the no contact call she made to him. Its killing me that i don't know the 'nature' of what they were talking about. i'm a need to know evidence based guy. she is still considering an undelete and showing me the texts.

i don't know what to do about my need to see the texts. do i really need to see them? i'm so confused.

Glad you found your way here - but sorry you had to.
The fact that you are is telling you that your gut is telling you something:

she admitted everything.

This will be tempting to believe, but it's not likely true and your gut is telling you so.. Hours on the phone at a time and thousands of text messages + Facebook messenger really indicates a deep emotional affair at a minimum. There's likely more to it.

she had dinner with him on that sunday. they hugged and kissed once.

Again, it's not likely. With as much phone and text contact as you described, there's probably more to the story.

i have asked a million questions, she has answered every one of them.

Absolutely. The betrayed always has questions and the wayward always has answers. The question here is whether those answers are complete and truthful.

i'm a need to know evidence based guy.

There's your answer right there. If YOU don't know what SHE knows, you're not having a shared experience - you're being manipulated.
You have a right to know whatever you feel you need to know before you make a decision about how to move forward. Ask for the evidence and stick to your guns.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you

I feel for you, wish you did not have to come here for help.

I am not a skilled writer or typist.

A start to become a better writer is to look for places where there could/should have a new paragraph. Hard to follow after you say she moved to spare bedroom.

We have been distant, sexless, loveless for the most part.

If this continues, or resumes a few months from know will you accept this, for yourself? More than likely the phase you are in know is a temporary bond with your wife.

You seem satisfied with the answers your wife has given however you know she lies. I'd suggest you keep quiet and look for more lies to the million questions she answered.

I went back on our call logs as far as the carrier allowed which was July

Have you asked carrier for paper copies past July?

his dad had passed as well and he was visiting

Search his last name, if that is all you know, town and approximate date. Should show up as an obituary, funeral home memorial, something. No death probably means they planned the Surprised Meeting. Slight chance there is no record, yet.

You don't have to consider anything I post below if you wish not to.

I read through once at medium speed. I got this feeling, big time: in all likelihood, in no time AT all, as in hours, they could go from where they were then to just going on like they did way back then with great ease.

She started out by admitting lies. She admits to what she's been caught lying about. That is almost universal with dealing with cheaters. Most don't admit until way down the pike, and they only admit what you already know. She's a little more forthcoming.

They kissed once? I guess back in the day maybe that's how far they got ... they kissed once?

This kissed once story is so common as to make me sick to my stomach. Why? We just want to believe. Anything to just believe to take away that feeling in the gut. At least ease the pain a bit.

They probably really got it on. It might be that they mean it to be a big go and then done. Don't know.

She was in that region for a very emotional series of things in her life for her relatives (if that is actually true). She ran into him somewhere and voila. You should find out how they met up again. As in, did she go looking (I certainly assume NOT).

Some who do cheat have ZERO intent of ever giving up on their partner. ZERO. They just kinda wanna do stuff and just get away with it. I think you have one of those. Yes, she does love you and she does want you. But she set all that aside for a while when she met him. It was rekindling some old thing at an opportunistic time.

If you look at this stuff as motive, means and opportunity she hit the jackpot.

The one kiss thing is always totally bogus. Those with a lot of knowledge on these things have said that adults go from a kiss to full on sex real quick. The kiss is the key to release everything.

After all these years they got together, had a meet up, probable ate, or drank or went here or there and were really having fun because of the past. At that instant ANY kissing kind of contact is like a blasting cap to ignite everything on their mind.

I actually think she's a good person and a good woman and this is a one time one off timeout she shouldn't have done it but she did and she really won't do it again. Many on here will disagree with that last sentence. We each see it different ways.

I'm really big on R where it can work and a lot of times I've figured out that's a bad idea. You're in an excellent opportunity to R. She's with you, your feelings for her.

Please make sure you are repairing your uneasiness or your stomach is wringing inside. Please deal with that. There's only one way for that to happen: the truth to the extent of details that YOU wanted. That seems to be the best therapy for general long term adjustment to the whole ffffing mess. We are able to make it livable. At times difficult, but livable.

Good Luck Man.

BS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:12 AM, Wednesday, November 3rd]

the 1st time she saw him was definately in july. my kids were there and it was completely random they ran into each other.

Search his last name, if that is all you know, town and approximate date. Should show up as an obituary, funeral home memorial, something. No death probably means they planned the Surprised Meeting. Slight chance there is no record, yet.

there is an obit on the dad. i hadn't checked. thank you for that suggestion.

i keep a journal and have for a while. a bottom line on this is full transparency. i will need to see the texts. i've told her that. now...can i stay true to myself?

Popping back in here:

now...can i stay true to myself?

It will be tough - here's how it goes for a lot of really nice betrayed spouses:

They are shocked by the discovery and want to keep life as 'normal' as they can while they process it. They think their best source of accurate info is the crying cheater - BUT - deception is a skill that cheaters know well. So, the cheater tells 'the truth' (read: as little as possible) and the betrayed spouse calms down and feels more in control because they got a 'confession'.
Often, the confession is total bullshit. The betrayed knows - in their gut - that there's more, but starts to feel guilty for continuing to dig for information from a crying wayward spouse. This can turn into a roller coaster; the lying spouse continues to lie, but you can't 'prove' it. That makes them more confident in their lies. The betrayed sneaks around looking for 'definitive' proof, which is hard to find because they destroy all that shit as quick as they can. Suddenly, the lying spouse is in control, confronting the betrayed about not believing them or invading their privacy.

It can be a real mindf*ck.

Keep digging, you don't want 'normal' right now. Since last year, 'Normal' has been her lying to you.
Press - and don't feel guilty about it. You didn't do this. It's not up to you to prove what happened.. it's up to her to prove what didn't. Make her show you everything. If it's already been destroyed, you can probably guess why.

a bottom line on this is full transparency. i will need to see the texts. i've told her that.

There is almost certainly more. Even the best Waywards lie and minimize in the misguided attempt to save the marriage. Those lies are what will damage you most when the truth surfaces down the road. You are probably headed to a polygraph if you want to know for sure the extent of what you would be forgiving. She had long voice conversations with him. Like others have said Adults don't just kiss. Ex's especially go from go to full PA almost immediately. Once they met again there's no doubt both where primed and ready to go. Desire, why else risk the heavy contact, and opportunity means PA.

one aspect of all this that puzzles me is that she didn't even try to hide it. who texts a suspicious phone number a few thousand times and doesn't expect it to be noticed?

Hi, welcome to SI. So sorry you are a member of the best club no one wants to join.

She admitted they only kissed once. Please, please understand that cheaters lie and lie and lie.

If I had a dollar for every time a newbie joins this group and his/her wayward admits to only kissing, I'd have enough $$ to purchase a nice vehicle cash.

My wayward admitted the same thing, they only kissed once in the car, he forgot to mention his affair partner met him at his hotel.

Your wife is more than likely in save her a$$ mode. Lie, deny, blameshift, all the things waywards do...it's a script they follow.

Take what she says with a grain of salt. She is self-protecting.

For your own sanity and for the truth, go into investigative mode. Also ask her if she's willing to take a polygraph.

You've come to the right place for support, post as often as you need to, and do check out the healing library as well as the Tactical Primer at the top of this forum.

i've asked her to see the texts. i'm not badgering her..yet. but i will keep at it.

i've also suggested she look into infidelity and learn more about it. don't think she's done that yet.

I feel sorry for you. Like most who come here you are in shock and disbelief. Never thinking you’d have to deal with infidelity.

If you read through a few threads the one thing you’ll find is this scenario is not uncommon.

Most cheaters lie a lot. They will only confess to what you know and can prove.

For the most part from what I’ve seen. An admitted kiss equals sex. Sorry.

You know deep down what the the truth is. Many will live in denial. It’s a temporary comfort zone.

The truth which I’m assuming you want even though you know will probably be in her deleted text messages. You can get them with deleted text message recovery software.

If you don’t get strong and stay there this will be much harder on you than it needs to be. Living with and unknown is extremely difficult.

Demand her phone and get what you need upfront.

She may have put you in limbo hell but it will be up to you to get out of it. She I’ll not help you.

My advice. Do not linger or wallow in the unknown. Get what you need upfront. It’s in her best interest to keep you in the dark. At your expense.

I hope you wake up to reality quick. If not you will be in for a very rough time.

[This message edited by Marz at 8:45 PM, Thursday, October 28th]

Sorry you found yourself here on SI

a bottom line on this is full transparency. i will need to see the texts.

First, your pre DDay marriage is dead. Are you both willing and ready to put the effort into New Marriage and relationship? If you were not satisfied with how things went in your dead marriage, you have an opportunity to change the course of events. My belief is that in order to have a healthy intimate relationship, both partners must be healthy. So, IC for her is a must. The questions to ask yourself: What for ? What if, then what?

If yes, then your condition for R should be a complete truth. As a start, you may ask your WW to write down a detailed (Yes, detailed - dates, times, emotions, actions, etc) timeline of her A.

You can then compare it to your timeline.

She might answer millions of your questions, but WS's do lie, and lie a LOT! lies by omission too. Whatever their reason for lying, mostly to protect themselves from themselves.

There are options to recover the deleted texts: software, IT techs...

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 8:43 PM, Thursday, October 28th]

You have so many questions now... You want to get into a cheater's mind! Understandable!

one aspect of all this that puzzles me is that she didn't even try to hide it. who texts a suspicious phone number a few thousand times and doesn't expect it to be noticed?

Have you asked your WS? Could be: entitlement, inexperience, selfishness, wanting to be caught, exit A, etc. Have you ever noticed that's hard to find something, and it's right in front of you?

If you want to recover the texts it’s better to act sooner than later. Phone hard drives are small and get overwritten fast, so you probably won’t get everything.You’re probably losing data by the hour. Get her phone and turn it off. You can purchase software for recovery. If you’re not comfortable with technology take it to a tech. As for Messenger, I don’t think it can be recovered once deleted. If she has old devices anywhere they might be worth checking.

Your best bet is a written timeline that includes any inappropriate behavior since you’ve been a couple verified by polygraph.

i've asked her to see the texts. i'm not badgering her..yet. but i will keep at it.

i've also suggested she look into infidelity and learn more about it. don't think she's done that yet.

It's not her choice my man. You may believe it is, but it isn't. It's a boundary you set and enforce. She will take full advantage of you being kind/generous with boundaries.

Here's the thing. Time is not on your side when it comes to the digital stuff. She is very likely to use incognito mode (hides web history) to figure out how to completely destroy data and make it irrecoverable.

I strongly recommend you take possession of her phone immediately (obviously without physical conflict) and begin to recover and collect data.

If she fights you on it, tell her that discussion time is over and she'll be served papers soon. I guarantee she will fold once she knows you mean it. She's hiding information because it's damning. You know it. Your gut knows it. She is looking out for #1.

Withoutloveinthedream

My WS, however he was working on switching it to Snapchat before I didn't notice. Too little too late.

Sorry you find yourself here. Speaking from my own experience there was definitely more. It took 5 months for me to find out it was actually a physical affair. Keep digging and follow your gut. We're in the process now of me looking into a polygraph so that I don't feel like everything else is lies because that's what ends up happening. They lied so much it's hard to believe anything they say.

Like you, I wanted details. Why? To torture myself? No. Knowledge is power.

Before I was going to make the biggest gamble of my life, Reconcile, I wanted to make an informed, educated decision.

Before considering forgiveness and dedicating a big chunk lifetime to someone who has already demonstrated unreliability, I wanted to know, as best as possible, through due diligence, what exactly I'm being asked to forgive and reconcile.

Sticking your head in the sand, hoping for the best and jumping back into the sack with a cheater in a fit of hysterical bonding is foolish-yet, we're all guilty of it. Because we desperately want out of this nightmare as quickly as possible.

The nightmare has just only begun. The ONLY way out is through. Through to genuine R or D. No half measures.

I would want to know the depth and breadth of her betrayal and just how far her heart has wondered off the reservation.

Those texts can be very revealing. I would also monitor her comms and try and see what she says behind your back.

My ExWW initially put on quite an impressive show of regret, despair, effort, love bombing, snot and tears.
But listening to her backstage communications and watching the downward trend of her efforts and attitude regarding Reconciliation, I could tell this wasn't going to work.

Only you know how much you need to know to be able to offer the *potential* for her to earn forgiveness.

But I think it is critical that you don't back down or rugsweep anything you feel you need to know. It will haunt you until you get sufficient confirmation you know enough or until it breaks you. That's my experience anyway.