Newest Member: girlangry89

Just Found Out :
Fooled again

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paboy ( Member #59482) posted at 12:07 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

I have always agreed with this scenario...opportunity and sharing of emotions results in a physical affair. This is just what adults do. If not kissing/caressing, than outright sex.

To be frank, unless you take total control of your life, the emotional baggage you will carry is life changing.

I know this from personal experience. I rug swept my wife's EA for a very long time. It had huge impacts on my life moving forward. Real change did not occur until she saw real consequences. I separated from her for about 7 months. She has confided that she was walking on egg shells for a good while. We are becoming closer. add.. she had undisclosed bipolar when most of this went down.

posts: 586   ·   registered: Jul. 4th, 2017   ·   location: australia
id 8678059
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Never2late ( New Member #79079) posted at 1:08 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

You have rugswept and not insisted on obtaining the truth. Upon your initial discovery you should have gone through the entire process, properly. Not just pick the things you like as if it's a buffet. The polygraph serves a purpose. If she refused then you could have divorced or possibly (really) reconciles sooner. Now you just prolonged the suffering.

I completely understand if you are going to divorce now then just walk away. Nothing else is really necessary.

posts: 20   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8678071
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guvensiz ( Member #75858) posted at 1:48 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

It's great how dismissive she was regarding my concerns about establishing boundaries with co-workers when she's writing to a coworker she is having an affair with.

A friend of mine had a brief affair with a married woman he met on the internet. One day, he said to me, "I don't understand the mentality of women, they can't be trusted." I asked why he said that.

While he and his AP were lying in bed right after they had sex, AP told her that her husband had banned her from the internet. My friend asked "and what's wrong with that". The AP angrily replied, "What do you mean, what's wrong, that means he doesn't trust me." My friend couldn't say anything for a while out of surprise. And then he said, "Don't you think the situation we're in now shows that he's right?"

posts: 478   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8678074
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TheLostOne2020 ( Member #72463) posted at 2:05 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

Legatus

She already declined the poly stating it was a weird idea. I'm backing off and worrying about myself. I gave her the list of suggestions. She has a counselor. She can discuss it with them to get guidance. I agree with the comment about her just regurgitating what I say. If I tell her what to say she won't ever get it, if she ever does at all. Also, and this might not be super healthy for me, but me not saying anything further will likely cause feelings of helplessness and uncertainty for her. That's the way I felt. Maybe she needs to sit with that for awhile.

Why are you worrying about yourself?

I'm ready to file. Like I said, I can't think of any way for the trust to restored. That doesn't leave me a lot of options. I already felt like I did the thing where I gave her time to figure out how to fix it, but really she just did what I asked and it was never meaningful. Even though I know not to to that in this instance, I'm not sure I want to di it. I'm pretty skeptical about any meaningful change being possible for her. I have counseling early next week and want to unpack it with the counselor before committing to anything.

If you are at the point I was then yeah, don't bother with the polygraph. That point was when I recognized that we had stepped over the point of no return. I knew that I was going to divorce her. It was over. At that point I no longer cared for 'the full story' from her - it never came, btw. I saw her a few weeks ago when I was picking up the kids. My memory is a bit fuzzy but she said that she said she felt like she just had to tell me something. The truth, the whole story, who she thought would win Survivor... It didn't matter. I told her that I no longer needed to know - it won't help me. I divorced her in March (we'd been separated for a year, legal stuff).

One thing that's really sticking in my brain is how mean and cold she's been to me in all of this. I find it hard to believe she could act the way she does and inflict so much pain, yet still love me. Hell, it suggests she doesn't even like me. This is part of a message a recovered from 10/2020. There is no love for me, lots for him.

That is sadly typical - my WW was horribly cold to me and then pulled the same 'I really love you though' bullshit. I told her one time, over a year ago at this point, that either she was lying about loving me or her version of love was indistinguishable from abuse - either way I didn't want anything to do with it. If that's what your wife considers love then you should run away.

She treated you like that because she wanted to. Maybe it made the thrill more intense. Maybe she's just a rotten person.

Now she could have asked me what was wrong instead of assuming it was her affair I was thinking about. It's great how dismissive she was regarding my concerns about establishing boundaries with co-workers when she's writing to a coworker she is having an affair with.

It is odd how delusional WW's can be.

D-Day 1: New Year's Day 2020
D-Day 2: Jan 21 2020
There was no D-Day 3.

6/12/2020: Moved out.

3/02/2021: Officially divorced.

I'm 42 and just starting to have the answers to the universe...

posts: 892   ·   registered: Jan. 3rd, 2020   ·   location: NoVa
id 8678076
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ShutterHappy ( Member #64318) posted at 3:02 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

intentional adultery?.. maybe not,

How can adultery be non intentional?

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1435   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8678083
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Tempocontour ( Member #65971) posted at 3:19 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

Here's something you could tell your stbxw. Tell her we need to divorce. If you have it in you, do all the work, show all the love you say you have for, you have to win me back. And just maybe, just maybe we could marry again and have a pre-nup written all in your favor. But we need to divorce 1st, give each other space and time to heal, then after a while maybe try again, go on dates. But the divorce must be done 1st.

Just a thought.

[This message edited by Tempocontour at 9:33 PM, July 23rd (Friday)]

posts: 76   ·   registered: Aug. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Northeast
id 8678086
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WalkingHome ( Member #72857) posted at 3:26 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

This isn’t a game and you aren’t a pawn.

Make the decision. Take the action. Do it decisively, fully, and take it to completion.

She will play you until you are exhausted or you can walk off her field.

Your path to peace is divorce.

posts: 216   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2020   ·   location: USA
id 8678088
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HalfTime2017 ( Member #64366) posted at 3:40 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

Legatus-

What is clear from your wife's message to playboy Barry is her absolute contempt for you. Jeez. Lets say she didn't cheat at all. Can you actually stay with this person that has that much contempt and hate towards you?

Forget the cheating. She consistently threw you under the bus. Dismissed your feelings. Shit, Strangers at a local coffee shop would have treated you better. So put the cheating aside for a moment, and her repeated breaking no contact. From her actions and writing, you're enemy number 1.

Legatus is the reason she is not happy. Legatus is the reason she's miserable, and lost herself. She has instead of being a grateful wife and love the person who has provided a great life for her, has put you on her shit list. Its like your wife is some kind of middle aged teenager. I can see a teenage kid acting this way, but your wife!!

You've spent years supporting her, and she treats you with contempt. Cheats on you. Probably lost herself b/c she wasn't working, and then, didnt want to go back to work. LOL. She is crazy.

If you D, no need for a poly. Some stuff you just cant unhear and unsee. If you decide to R, she has a ton of work to do on herself. A shit ton. Her issues with her mom, her self esteem, there are FOO issues there.

posts: 1144   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8678090
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 5:48 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

One thing that's really sticking in my brain is how mean and cold she's been to me in all of this.

When people show you who they are, believe them.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4227   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8678101
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LostInHisFog ( Member #78503) posted at 9:30 AM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

Unsure if this helps now but it might put things in perspective (as well as help with any future letters from your WW). This is what my therapist gets me to do since I have a narc WH who is expert at manipulating me with words and who also loves to write me letters that are also full of things I want to hear/read, this might help you to cut through your wayward's bullsh*t.

Print out the letters (if emails), grab a sharpie (or any other black texter) and every sentence that starts with "I" or "I'm" , or "I", "Me", "Myself" or "I'm" that appears in the first 6 words, black the entire sentence out, don't read it, just black out the entire sentence. If there is anything left cross out any sentence that blame shifts (excuses), minimizes the A or rug sweeps. Next grab a highlighter and if there is any words left highlight anything that addresses your pain, shows understanding (not "I understand" true examples of empathy) or shows true remorse... is there anything highlighted? If so those are the only words you need to heal and recover, the rest are lies, may it be irrelevant fluff, actual falsehoods, or empty promises. I did this with your letter to both yourself and the NC and you know what, mostly blacked out, no highlighted parts.

As a BS who does get similar "I have changed, I want us" letters I can only tell you in my case my wayward, so far, is only telling me what my heart wants to hear, it's just another form of words and what is drilled into us time and time again... waywards lie, actions not words is what matters. So far your wayward is freaking her sh*t out because you have given her the cozy life and she has never had to face her consequences for destroying her marriage, she is acting like my wayward, thinking enough time will make you drop this so she can stay in that cozy life. Things do not make sense in her stories but that's not surprising because she is lying, sometimes on the fly it seems.

Right now you need a proper break from her, NC break, not just a weekend away. This isn't a separation but it is distance to think and assess. If you can see a IC during this time. I do feel like your wife has quite successfully manipulated you for a long time (in my profile I list warning signs of gaslighting, see if they apply) and distance from her, from her influence, from her lies and you might see things differently, especially if she has controlled the narrative for sometime.

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 151   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8678122
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 Legatus (original poster Member #79152) posted at 3:30 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

I have to say thank you to everyone who has posted in response to my situation. It’s really helped me understand where I am in all of this. I still don’t understand her thinking and rationalizations.

The most important revelation was the cycle of control she’s had over me. And I gave her instructions on how to do it each time by asking her to do specific things and accepting her doing the bare minimum. Her: what do I have to say to get you to shut up and resume doing what I want you to do? Me: this and that. Her: done, now take your false sense of security and go fuck yourself in the corner while I continue my affair.

In that vein I’ve realized that each time I’ve caught her in a lie and she inevitably would tell me I was being controlling, it was really her fear she was losing some piece of her total control over the situation. She’s still in the “you have to believe me, I’ll do and say anything” place. I was a bit of a jerk and said “yes, I know you’ll do anything to regain complete control over me, that’s why I don’t trust any of it”. It’ll be interesting to see if some of you are right about the anger coming next along with all the “you” statements.

Anyways. Without this forum I wouldn’t have the understanding of my position as well as I do now. I read Shirley Glass not just friends a couple years ago. But people calling things out on this forum brought it home for me.

I asked her to not sleep in the bedroom anymore. We’ll see what happens tonight. I didn’t ask her to take all her stuff out because that would mean a talk with the kids and I’m not ready for that right now. I told her to start thinking about what she thinks would be a fair division of assets. We had that talk a few years ago and we weren’t that far apart on the topic. I suggested any money we disagree about should just go into the kids 529 college account instead of fighting over it. Better the kids benefit than the attorneys.

I’m moving forward with divorce. I haven’t given up on R entirely, but for me to sway in that direction at all, she would have to make tremendous progress on her own and I’m not optimistic is he is capable of it . She won’t be getting instructions from me on how to placate and control me. Hopefully for her, her IC isn’t as incompetent as I think he is.

Edited for typos.

[This message edited by Legatus at 9:37 AM, July 24th (Saturday)]

posts: 78   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021
id 8678161
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BlueRaspberry ( Member #76065) posted at 3:45 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

Legatus,

You state

Hopefully for her, her IC isn’t as incompetent as I think he is.

Why do you think that? Does the IC specialize in infidelity? If not, she should pick one that does. This isn't just for her benefit. To the extent she can truly recognize the damage she has caused, it may make the divorce proceedings easier.

[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 9:46 AM, July 24th (Saturday)]

posts: 218   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8678165
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 Legatus (original poster Member #79152) posted at 5:28 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

I'm not sure. She's been seeing the IC for a couple years. She began counseling shortly after I initially discovered the affair. At that point she was sticking to the just friends story. After seeing the IC for awhile she volunteered that her IC told her she should be able to keep her friend and marriage. I found it hard to believe any counselor even a bad one would tell a client in her situation she should have the expectation of keeping the affair and the marriage. What I've discovered over the years is she is not telling the IC or anyone else she seeks advice from the entire truth. Hard to believe, right?

She's gotten other friends and family members to tell her what she is doing is fine, until some of them approached me to tell me to lay off and let it go. After I filled in the missing information they changed their tune. Then my wife would get super pissed at me and would confront me asking why I told them that stuff. Um, because it's the truth, and you don't understand a lie of omission is lying and manipulative (edit- I do think she knows this and knows exactly what she's doing). She actually would get mad saying I lied to them about her. I would regurgitate what I told them and ask if any of it was untrue. That would shut her down. She stopped bringing in outside reinforcements after that. Pretty crappy of her to manipulate her well intentioned friends and family in order to further manipulate me.

Anyways, she asked me if she should go to a new counselor or one that specializes in infidelity. I told her to talk to her IC and figure it out for herself. The only helpful thing I told her was, she might not share the whole truth with me, but she should with her counselor if she has any chance of benefiting from therapy. Otherwise you're just manipulating him to tell you what you want to hear and there's no benefit to you outside of him reinforcing your behavior.

[This message edited by Legatus at 11:30 AM, July 24th (Saturday)]

posts: 78   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021
id 8678182
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BlueRaspberry ( Member #76065) posted at 5:52 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

Legatus,

Thanks for the additional information. I believe your plan to divorce is sound.

Be wary of your wife as you move forward - she will attempt to manipulate you as she has done in the past and when that doesn't work, she'll likely transition from regret (not remorse - that requires empathy) to anger and/or hysterical bonding. Don't engage by employing the 180 and/or grey rock technique (see the healing library on the yellow menu for details). Consider purchasing a VAR and keeping it on your person to record any interactions. If she gets desperate, she could even try to press false domestic abuse charges. Better safe than sorry.

[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 12:14 PM, July 24th (Saturday)]

posts: 218   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8678189
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jb3199 ( Member #27673) posted at 6:58 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

The only helpful thing I told her was, she might not share the whole truth with me, but she should with her counselor if she has any chance of benefiting from therapy. Otherwise you're just manipulating him to tell you what you want to hear and there's no benefit to you outside of him reinforcing your behavior.

Isn't this what it really boils down to--wanting to make changes in oneself?

It doesn't matter how good a counselor may be--they are going on the preface that the patient wants help. That the information being given to them is accurate. THAT THE PATIENT IS NOT GOING TO LIE EITHER OUTRIGHT OR BY OMISSION.

I never understood this. A patient, willingly, goes to counseling for advice. Then they basically 'cheat' by not being forthcoming. It would be like you taking a few refresher courses at college for your own enjoyment, then cheating to pass the course. What was gained? You went there for your own benefit, and of your own free will, and learned little to nothing. If you want to pass these college courses, you put in the work and study.

If you want to be a better person through the help of counseling, you put in the work....and try.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married 28yrs.(together over 30yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day(s): Enough
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 3818   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8678200
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 7:04 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

You got the old I resent you for trying to control my cheating and How dare you invade my privacy to cheat thing.

Trying to rationalize the irrational is a hopeful task. Don’t waste your time.

You seem to still have a touch of hopium.

As many have seen the one who cares most about the marriage is at a disadvantage.

[This message edited by Marz at 1:05 PM, July 24th (Saturday)]

posts: 6616   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8678202
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The1stWife ( Member #58832) posted at 7:53 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

I’m sorry but you should demand your $ back from her counselor. He or she has to be an idiot to believe the “just friends” routine.

It’s people like that who give therapists a bad reputation!

Most people with half a brain would see through that behavior.

Maybe you should tell your wife she can hero her friend and her counselor but you have decided to leave the three ring circus of a marriage.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10532   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8678211
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BlueRaspberry ( Member #76065) posted at 10:17 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

Legatus,

Earlier you wrote

I sent her a modified version of the things Stevens posted.

Can you tell us what elements you included in the modified version? Just curious as to what you communicated and how she initially responded. I know she's written an NC letter and an OBS letter, albeit without any details as to why the "friendship" was bad or inappropriate. However, what else did you request and how did she respond?

posts: 218   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8678228
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TheLostOne2020 ( Member #72463) posted at 10:53 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

The1stWife

I’m sorry but you should demand your $ back from her counselor. He or she has to be an idiot to believe the “just friends” routine.

It’s people like that who give therapists a bad reputation!

I agree with this. I would tell OP's wife that the money for the therapists, for the trips to see AP, for phone bills, etc, is all coming out of her share of the assets.

D-Day 1: New Year's Day 2020
D-Day 2: Jan 21 2020
There was no D-Day 3.

6/12/2020: Moved out.

3/02/2021: Officially divorced.

I'm 42 and just starting to have the answers to the universe...

posts: 892   ·   registered: Jan. 3rd, 2020   ·   location: NoVa
id 8678236
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 11:09 PM on Saturday, July 24th, 2021

She was able to deceive her therapist for years. She was just there to be heard, not to fix her problems. She only said what she wanted to say just like what she's doing now.

She only told stories for her therapists about her 'friendship' with Barry and nothing more. She didn't state that they were messaging 'i miss you's', 'i wish i could jog with you', 'we'll be each other in the future'... if she ever said those then it would have been another story and you won't be here now. She was able to manipulate even her therapist.

Even her letters right now doesn't tell the full story. She lied to you for years. She lied to her therapist. Actually, she also lied to Barry. She was telling all those vile stories about you which weren't even half true. She's also lying to OBS, btw.

I can't get over the fact that in her view you were her jailer. Your marriage is her prison. Barry is her gateway to freedom. She needed to get over her walls, which was you, to be able to reach her freedom, which was Barry. You're not even her second choice, not her plan B. She needed to fully get rid of you. Get away from you!

Now she realizes that her fantasy world didn't come to fruition. All her fantasies crushed. She didn't realize that if you're gone, she has nowhere to go. She didn't realize that you were her fuel all along. Your company was the one fueling her life. Now that it all comes crashing down, she can't go on living her double life.

She lied her way for years to everyone, including Barry. She's still lying now. You don't know the full story.

[This message edited by beb252 at 11:37 PM, Saturday, July 24th]

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8678238
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