Newest Member: Strugglinglady

Just Found Out :
Fooled again

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Kindern ( new member #78441) posted at 9:28 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Personally I didn't get the vibe she was just doing what she was told or pushing Legatus as an authority figure... I think she's carefully keeping her version of events within the scenario as Legatus knows it to avoid revealing more information.

As in she isn't being a "good girl" because she's contrite and desperate to be led out of what she's done. She's letting Legatus take control so she can exclusively be reactionary. She's on the defensive, she's the Mayweather of WW. Absorbing blows she can't redirect onto someone else (namely Barry, awful lot of this affairs is apparently solely his fault).

Taking initiative risks exposing further lies. Sitting back and basically regurgitating what Legatus says back at him is safest here.

That long letter surrounding her epiphany about being "wrong" doesn't actually reveal anything Legatus didn't already know. Doesn't explain why she did anything in the first instance. It's just reframing what Legatus has already established peppered with unprovable platitudes (Oh she felt terrible when communicating with him... via their secret drop box) and weasel words.

I personally don't get the impression from these letters she's being meek for any other reason than she's on the defensive and it's letting her control the narrative.

posts: 34   ·   registered: Mar. 4th, 2021   ·   location: Uk
id 8678012
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 9:30 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I'm sorry but this letter from your WW to the OBS is gaslighting trash. Gaslighting both you and the OBS.

Our relationship was inappropriate. We were never sexual, but

we were intimate in a way that was not just friendly.

"I'm using some fancy non-denial words that amount to a big old fat lie." I mean, come on, brother, your wife stayed at another married man's house by herself while the other wife was gone. What do you think happened?

Now Matt has no trust for me

and my marriage is portably over and its all my fault.

"Poor me."

But I also blame Barry.

"If there's someone else to blame, I'm gonna find 'em."

If he was a real friend, he

would have told me what I was doing was wrong, but he didn’t. He let me go on hurting myself and my

family.

"I'm a little lost girl in the woods, and your husband is the big bad wolf who snuck up on me."

Barry always said you were ok with our relationship, but now looking back maybe you weren’t.

"It's all Barry's fault."

Legatus, I hope you don't let her send this. It's awful. Make her write another letter without all the bullshit in it. Take it with you and meet with the OBS face to face.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:31 PM, July 23rd (Friday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4339   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8678013
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 9:45 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I was feeling like I didn’t know who I was anymore beyond a stressed out housewife living in conservative West Michigan feeling like she didn’t fit in anywhere.

This is stupefyingly eye-rolling navel-gazing nonsense. All those terrible West Michigan conservatives oppressing this poor woman and taking away her sense of self.

Its about them trying to recapture a part of themselves they have lost. Ever since I heard that on a podcast, that’s all I can think about. Its so true. It was me feeling lost and less-than and not in touch with who I was anymore.

This is gross. Really. Waywards always seem to push for this starry-eyed, happy clappy, hippy dippy romanticization of what they did, when in reality it is one of the most vile, toxic acts throughout human history in every culture, past and present spanning the globe.

Look up the "UBT" "universal bullshit translator" on the web regarding infidelity and read some of those entries. You'll laugh, you'll cry, and you'll see why this letter from your wife probably needs to be processed through the UBT.

kids to drag me down.

"Kids are such a ball and chain dragging down my independent free spirit!"

you are a huge part of that.

"Legatus, THANK YOU for being such a huge part of that. Pat, pat, pat."

the contact felt awful and terrible and it turns out I was WRONG.

"It felt so awful that I complained to Barry about how you were interfering with how awful it was."

I realize now just how much I hurt you.

"I don't really, but it looks good on paper to write it down."

I have grown so much

"I have grown so much in the two days since you caught me lying repeatedly to you!!!"

I have realized so much and I have such excitement about our future together. You say I don’t want to talk about retirement, but I do!!

"I figured out how impoverished I stand to be if you divorce me. Please continue to be my provider! I'm so excited!"

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:09 PM, July 23rd (Friday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4339   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8678019
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 10:22 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

The letter isn't written to OBS, but to you. She wrote whatever she thought would please you.

Not much different from what she wrote to you. Again, nothing concrete. Lots of empty, cloudy words. Just say what you did! "Nothing sexual but inappropriate"; what do you consider sexual, what is inappropriate? Some just consider PIV and do not consider kissing sexual for instance. If there hasn't been any physical contact, say so.

After all that she wrote to you and OBS, there isn't the slightest information about what they are going through concretely. There is a confession of cheating, but nothing about cheating.

I think you shouldn't be actively getting involved and tell her what to do or not do. Don't let her think that you have arrived at some point as a result of her letters.

Let her do what she wants to do, watch the developments without getting involved. You have your own agenda, act accordingly.

posts: 519   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8678028
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J0ck ( member #47763) posted at 10:36 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

seems everything is all about her.

how about just for the laugh(cos she'll never agree to it) you insist on a polygraph.

I know they can be suspect it doesn't matter she'll never go for it.

posts: 76   ·   registered: May. 4th, 2015   ·   location: United Kingdom
id 8678034
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 Legatus (original poster member #79152) posted at 10:44 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

She already declined the poly stating it was a weird idea. I'm backing off and worrying about myself. I gave her the list of suggestions. She has a counselor. She can discuss it with them to get guidance. I agree with the comment about her just regurgitating what I say. If I tell her what to say she won't ever get it, if she ever does at all. Also, and this might not be super healthy for me, but me not saying anything further will likely cause feelings of helplessness and uncertainty for her. That's the way I felt. Maybe she needs to sit with that for awhile.

posts: 83   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021
id 8678038
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 10:45 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

This is the story about Barry the big bad wolf that took advantage of poor little muffin.

posts: 6707   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8678039
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 10:46 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

She already declined the poly stating it was a weird idea.

Of course she did..

She thinks you can still be played.

[This message edited by Marz at 5:38 PM, July 23rd (Friday)]

posts: 6707   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8678040
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BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 10:52 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Legatus,

She said in her letter

I will do anything!!! I will prove to you that I know I was wrong and that I want YOU and that you can trust me.

Then you say

She already declined the poly stating it was a weird idea.

I would simply tell her that it is her choice, but she needs to provide a timeline and undergo a polygraph before you can have a chance at believing her. Leave it at that while you get your ducks in a row to divorce.

posts: 233   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8678041
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 10:53 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

She already declined the poly stating it was a weird idea.

What was weird about it? Not trusting a liar's word and ask for confirmation?

You don't need to make any other suggestions. You already got your answer.

posts: 519   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8678042
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 10:54 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

She already declined the poly stating it was a weird idea.

If you even had one percent of your mind wondering if she could be telling the truth I certainly hope that this statement brings that to zero. She knows she would fail and I predict she will stay firm in refusing to take a poly. Perhaps she might initially concede but in no way will she sit for one if you follow through.

Time to file. Now.

posts: 87   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8678043
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 Legatus (original poster member #79152) posted at 11:02 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

BlueRaspberry - The poly refusal preceded the letter she wrote me. I haven't revisited it with her and don't plan on doing so.

posts: 83   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021
id 8678045
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BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 11:08 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Legatus,

Got it. Have you moved her out of the master bedroom? Also, are you planning to file for divorce?

posts: 233   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8678046
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SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 11:29 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

She already declined the poly stating it was a weird idea.

I can think of another weird idea .... you staying married to her.

posts: 362   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8678048
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 11:32 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

All these letters to show she's remorseful, yet still lieing that it was not sexual.

Smmfh...

posts: 2649   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8678049
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Kindern ( new member #78441) posted at 11:33 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

The poly refusal preceded the letter she wrote me. I haven't revisited it with her and don't plan on doing so.

I would personally bring it up to make a clear line in the sand. Stonewalling her now lets her play the "I tried" card at every turn and keeps this whole thing in the narrative she's made.

All this stuff she's spun about admitting she was wrong, it being Big Bad Barry's fault... she was some poor supressed housewife but you've changed all that! All that falls to shit if she refuses a poly. What value does her new found ability to admit she was wrong have if it can't be verified? It's not admitting you were wrong if you're not telling the truth. What good is claiming she's out from under Barry's thumb if free of his influence she is still hiding things? What good is claiming you've helped her and your influence is what brought her back from the brink if she's now going to entirely ignore your attempts to understand this situation via a poly?

Her entire story lives and dies in basically all aspects on her willingness to get a poly.

[This message edited by Kindern at 5:34 PM, July 23rd (Friday)]

posts: 34   ·   registered: Mar. 4th, 2021   ·   location: Uk
id 8678050
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 Legatus (original poster member #79152) posted at 11:37 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I'm ready to file. Like I said, I can't think of any way for the trust to restored. That doesn't leave me a lot of options. I already felt like I did the thing where I gave her time to figure out how to fix it, but really she just did what I asked and it was never meaningful. Even though I know not to to that in this instance, I'm not sure I want to di it. I'm pretty skeptical about any meaningful change being possible for her. I have counseling early next week and want to unpack it with the counselor before committing to anything.

One thing that's really sticking in my brain is how mean and cold she's been to me in all of this. I find it hard to believe she could act the way she does and inflict so much pain, yet still love me. Hell, it suggests she doesn't even like me. This is part of a message a recovered from 10/2020. There is no love for me, lots for him.

"I do so wish I could go on a run with you (apparently she thinks she's in Dowton Abbey).I also wish you could make me feel better about my job and life. I need someone to give me pep talks - someone who really knows me. I miss you. We could talk about these things during a run."

"I could tell Matt was dwelling on something (as he does) and I assumed it was you and me talking that he was obsessing about. I thought he was going to ask to see my computer and phone, but he didn't. What I think it was is me going to Illinois for work with only Gary. He has been telling me how Gary and I are not to be friends or share too much because that's how it started with you. Whatever."

Now she could have asked me what was wrong instead of assuming it was her affair I was thinking about. It's great how dismissive she was regarding my concerns about establishing boundaries with co-workers when she's writing to a coworker she is having an affair with.

posts: 83   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021
id 8678051
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 11:46 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

The poly refusal preceded the letter she wrote me. I haven't revisited it with her and don't plan on doing so.

I think it would actually be informative for you to revisit this question. Now that you have her letter, this would be a good indicator of whether or not she means it when she tells you she wants to work on things.

I'll be honest... I don't see this evil, manipulative, villain that some of these other folks are seeing. I'm seeing a stubborn woman who doesn't like to admit when she's wrong. I'm seeing a woman who had painted a big bullseye on her primary person's forehead and made him a target for all her angst, treated him like Daddy/Jailer, and now that it's blown up in her face, realizes that she's going to lose him.

Now, it could be that like my fWH, she's been into a lot more shenanigans than what she's currently willing to cop to. But it could also be that she really did think for a very long time that she was right and you were wrong, and that her AP was just a friend. Poor boundaries to be sure, lack of empathy for your feelings to be sure, but intentional adultery?.. maybe not, at least not early on. You ARE in a position to put paid to the discussion though and require the poly. If she says 'no', chances are good that she knew she was wrong and that more happened than she admits.

Bear in mind though that it's ALL about what YOU want at this point. My fWH had a full-on Craigslist binge which lasted almost a year; multiple partners and various degrees of emotional attachment. And like your WW has done, mine painted that big 'ol fat bullseye on my forehead and directed all his middle-aged angst and frustration straight at me. It was AWFUL. And HE was awful. But once he realized that nothing was as he had been telling himself and that he was going to lose me and our entire life together, he snapped out of it to such a degree as to be unable to identify with his former thought process.

WS's aren't perfect people.. hence the skullduggery, and it takes them some time to pull their shit together, that is.. for the ones who are capable of change. The question you have to ask yourself is whether or not your WW's behavior has been a deal-breaker and whether you still love her. There's no shame in those answers. We don't owe reconciliation. Everyone knows the potential costs of infidelity. But I don't want you thinking that your situation is beyond recovery because it's not. If you want R, I think your chances for it are probably excellent.

posts: 4597   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8678052
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beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 11:55 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I can see that her perception towards you when she's talking with Barry are mostly negative. It seems you're the barrier for her happiness. It seems like being married with you is like a prison that doesn't let her see the better world.

She was seeking validation from Barry. It's all about her and Barry. It's all about being completely open with Barry. It's all about your controlling behavior towards her.

You've given her enough time to think on things but she blew it. The other day she was saying all those sweet things with Barry and you're the public enemy number one in her life. Today, Barry is the villain and he was the one who did all of those vile things to her. It was never about her doing anything wrong, it was either you her enemy for the last few years and Barry her new enemy now.

She hasn't been truly truthful with you and OBS. The letters are both watered down version of what's really going on between her and Barry. Don't ever believe a cheater!

All the best!

posts: 388   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8678056
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 11:56 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Reconciliation not rugsweeping takes two.

It also has basic requirements and even then there are no guarantees.

No Contact with AP

Truth

Remorse

I don’t see in all that you’ve posted that you have even one.

posts: 6707   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8678057
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