Newest Member: Serenity7

Reconciliation :
Could use some encouragement, I screwed up

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Butforthegrace ( Member #63264) posted at 10:48 PM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

And I think her decision to cheat while on vacation, and then come home and tell you what she did was her declaration of emotional independence.

Agreed 100%. This is consistent with my impression that HCSDI doesn't like her; she also doesn't like him.

By the way, HCSDI, "you're/your", a lot of people type on their phones, which auto-complete and/or auto-correct these sorts of things.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8675294
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 11:23 PM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

I encourage you to have a deep discussion with DD because I think the damage to her was overlooked. From your posts her moving away with no plan to acquire skills to support herself long term may be evidence that she rejected her mother as an advisor or role model; and can't stand to see you suffer.

In addition, just a reminder that your wife wanting you to forgive and move on is consistent with that book she gave you.

And finally, with respect to her lying.

Is your wife capable of being deceitful by withholding information from you (to her benefit) that she knows you'd want/need to know?

For example: blaming her affair on you to DD, resenting you to the point of wanting to emasculate you; or that she had considered an affair long before taking a vacation with DD; or under the right conditions/with the right guy she gives herself a green light to do it again.

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8675301
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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 11:52 PM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

Could use some encouragement, I screwed up

You are a good man. You work hard. You love your family. You did not screw up!!!

All that statement was, was just the tip of your pride, your morals, your self-worth, your hurt and pain, just starting to poke through the wall holding back the reservoir of pent-up righteous reaction to the injury your wife inflicted on you that night, afterwards, since then, and I am sure prior to then as well.

That was just the first of it leaking through the teeny-tiny crack created by the pressure of your suppressing the truth.

Not everybody agrees, but I think it's actually okay to use some ugly language with somebody who hurt you so grievously. To tell them to fuck-off. To call them "unprincipled" (Because it's true!!). Sometimes the truth is ugly, or hurtful.

I encourage you to tell the truth to yourself first, then your wife next.

YOU DID NOT SCREW UP! YOU ARE A PERSON WHO DESERVES TO BE VALUED.

Moot point, in a few weeks she'll be leaving for orientation for like 6 weeks, and then travelling full time. Gone for a few days, home for a few.

Danger Will Robinson!

So it isn't like she's playing me, but I really am at a total loss for what is going on in that head of hers.

Yes she is playing you. Now let me tell you what is going on in her head: "When will HowCouldSheDoIt shut the fuck up about this stupid one-nighter!? It was only one night and it didn't mean anything! This is why I fucked that guy in the first place, he makes me crazy with his (Insert arbitrary bullshit reason reason here.)

But resolving this is marriage related, and I don't feel ready to address it on any deeper level. And it is a moot point anyway, because she is going back to work to earn a salary herself, and what she said is very sweet, that she doesn't feel right asking me to work for 10 more years so she can buy a new SUV and a boat and jetskis and whatever else.

She doesn't understand that a marriage is a coupling of larger life goals. She sees herself as solitary, not part of a duo, not in a life partnership.

I personally find it interesting that she has firm plans for where that money is going to go. I wasn't consulted or asked my opinion. It seems to me she's doing exactly what I was doing that hurt her so badly. Granted this is early and she's just talking right now, but still... interesting.

I must have missed it. What did you do that cut her out of the future plans for the marriage?

That is a topic for another discussion way down the line after we are firmly in R.

She's going to change the person who she is and start having discussions with you about the marriage as opposed to running off and having sex outside the marriage?

Dude, what constitutes reconciliation for you and your wife appear to be completely different things. Reconciliation for your wife is for you to shut the fuck up and swallow all of your pain.

As much eye rolling as I will get for this, I do trust WW not to lie to me. I have never caught her in a lie, never found anything suspicious of her lying.

**EYE ROLL** ;-)

That's a mistake on your part. I am not sure if your wife planned to cheat on that trip, but the way she went about it seems to be premeditated. Ergo, she lied to you about her intentions.

In addition, she has been lying to you about her understanding or caring about what she has done to you with her betrayal. She has lied with her stated commitment to healing your marriage. I am pretty sure she has omitted information or "spun" details of the night in question. I promise you the story she has told her family is rife with lies and paints you in a bad light.

Do not trust cheaters to be honest. Cheating is dishonest in and of itself.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:54 PM, July 13th (Tuesday)]

posts: 873   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8675305
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 HowCouldSheDoIt (original poster Member #78431) posted at 12:22 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Way down the line? If you are not ready to challenge any of her actions now, why will you be any more ready to do that a year from now, or five years from now?

Good point. I was more talking about her knee-jerk reaction to just use her salary just for her (as opposed to family money), not necessarily what I think is actually going to happen. Like why did she immediately go there?

She told me she would put her salary along with mine, and not a separate bank account, and I would have full access to everything.

I also told her that if she's receiving benefits I wanted to explore quitting my job, which impacts our standard of living and expenses. She said that yes, these things need to be discussed.

I was more referring to her thought process off hand, and not a pattern I think is going to happen. But you're point is valid.

Me: BH Early 50's
Her: WW Early 50's
D-Day Nov 2020
Married 21 years before D-Day
3 children
Working toward reconciling. The most difficult thing I've had to do in my life.

posts: 239   ·   registered: Mar. 3rd, 2021
id 8675314
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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 1:22 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

I wanted to explore quitting my job, which impacts our standard of living and expenses.

Quitting your job and putting yourself at your wife's mercy would be a terrible move.

Look at how she treats you when you are the prime earner. Just wait until you rely on her.

Honestly, her behavior, actions, and plans signal to me that she is moving toward liberating herself from this marriage.

Protect yourself. On every level.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 7:32 PM, July 13th (Tuesday)]

posts: 873   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8675327
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OrdinaryDude ( Member #55676) posted at 1:54 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

I also told her that if she's receiving benefits I wanted to explore quitting my job, which impacts our standard of living and expenses. She said that yes, these things need to be discussed.

This is going from bad to worse.

Out of the frying pan into the fire.

A train wreck in slow motion.

*insert any of a hundred cliche’s here that fit*

I’ve been where you are, and all I got was more of the same…don’t be me.

Me - BH 50+
Her - WW 50+
Married 30+ years, 2 adult kids
(1989) PA Rug-Swept
(2002) EA Rug-Swept
(2016) EA *Getting Out Of Infidelity*

**Working at Reconciling**

posts: 3366   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2016   ·   location: The Big Easy
id 8675336
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BluerThanBlue ( Member #74855) posted at 2:42 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

I feel like every time you post, it’s like you read the comments and then say to yourself: “This is all good and sensible advice I’m getting. Now I’m going to do the exact opposite!”

Example: Everyone tells you you’re being manipulated, the relationship is unsafe, and your wife is falsely accusing you of being abusive. Your chosen course of action is to make yourself even more vulnerable and dependent on your wife by giving up your livelihood.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 474   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8675347
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EllieKMAS ( Member #68900) posted at 3:16 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Please do not quit your job. That's a BAD idea.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

posts: 3140   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8675353
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Butforthegrace ( Member #63264) posted at 3:22 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

I also told her that if she's receiving benefits I wanted to explore quitting my job

Do you hate your job? Does she know this? Has she really chosen to be a SAHM while you continue slogging off every day to a job you hate, just to support her and the family?

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8675355
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RocketRaccoon ( Member #54620) posted at 5:38 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

HCSDI,

Gently and objectively:

Looking at what you have posted so far, I cannot help but get an underlying impression that you seem to have invested a lot of your 'worth' into your WS.

Why is it that you 'need' to have 'comfort breaks' from her, as opposed to her willingly giving them to you. So it seems that she is just 'doing her duty' because you asked, not because she wants to. Why won't she give you 'comfort breaks' spontaneously and from her, as opposed to you asking for them?

The posts also seem to be from someone who feels the 'need' to protect the spouse, which in and of itself is not a bad thing, but in your case, it is to protect her from any negative comment be it true or perceived.

What do you think your 'worth' is in life? Is it generally external factors, or internal?

Ultimately, you will have to delve deeper into the dynamics of your M, but not with a MC, but with an IC. Both you and your WS need to sort your own issues out first, before even thinking about going for MC.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 888   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8675369
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 6:08 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

I also told her that if she's receiving benefits I wanted to explore quitting my job, which impacts our standard of living and expenses. She said that yes, these things need to be discussed.

I mean, what? It's like you're willfully signing up for more cuckoldry. You do this, I guarantee you will be living in a one sided open marriage where your WW takes on a series of sexual partners and becomes the town bicycle, while you sit at home. Heck she's probably already planning it.

EDIT TO ADD: really, the way she's acted throughout this entire process suggests to me, at least, she might have had other one night stands. Her indifference and carefree attitude toward the entire matter screams manipulation from someone who has already broken the brain barrier for infidelity and has a comfort level with it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:42 PM, July 14th (Wednesday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8675375
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BluerThanBlue ( Member #74855) posted at 12:08 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Crass as Thumos's comment is, I agree with him. Do not, under any circumstances, quit your job while you're still married to your wife, unless it's to retire. If you're unhappy where you are, then find another place to work.

Your wife was already a selfish and entitled person before... once she starts supporting you financially, she will lose what little respect she has for you. She will resent losing all the free time that she had to do whatever she wanted-- which I'm 99.9% positive included other affairs-- while you were busy working.

As Thumos said, the sheer fact that she was so brazen with her vacation fling and callous afterward is reason enough to believe that this wasn't her first rodeo. The fact that you accept that it was based on her word alone and don't even seem mildly curious about the possibility of previous encounters speaks volumes about where your head is at and how subjugated you are in this marriage.

You give her credit for confessing and on this basis you say she's never lied to you. You are lying to yourself. She confessed because your daughter already knew and she had to get ahead of it. That's it.

As I said in my previous post, I don't expect you to take the advice you're receiving; in fact, I expect you to double-down on your current course. But at least you can't say you didn't have a complete picture of the possible and probable outcomes.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 474   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8675404
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BluerThanBlue ( Member #74855) posted at 12:08 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Duplicate

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:09 AM, July 14th (Wednesday)]

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 474   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8675405
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 HowCouldSheDoIt (original poster Member #78431) posted at 12:44 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Your chosen course of action is to make yourself even more vulnerable and dependent on your wife by giving up your livelihood.

Yes, I get it, giving up my income would be a horrible idea and I have no plans to until I'm very ready and very secure.

I have been doing my work for like 30 years and I get burned out. It pays fairly well and I do get some joy, and I absolutely can keep doing it. I would enjoy doing something different but very unlikely at the same salary.

I told her exploring quitting not because it was a plan of mine, but to throw out there for perspective; is her salary really hers only? Like if I lose my job and we need her salary to live for a while and not afford her toys, how would she feel?

I appreciate the replies and advice but I'll get let go or get restructured before I quit. I've also wondered too, jobs like mine are hard to find, lots of competition for them, so it would be foolish to quit generally. Plus I hate to walk away from a comfortable salary, and inside I feel like if I have the capability and opportunity, I should keep doing it for as long as I can. If I don't need the salary I can leave it for my kids.

My whole attitude about money is security. Society has little care / concern for men with no income. Being helpless is a core fear of mine. There is no way I will allow myself to be without a plan.

Me: BH Early 50's
Her: WW Early 50's
D-Day Nov 2020
Married 21 years before D-Day
3 children
Working toward reconciling. The most difficult thing I've had to do in my life.

posts: 239   ·   registered: Mar. 3rd, 2021
id 8675408
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EllieKMAS ( Member #68900) posted at 12:53 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Being helpless is a core fear of mine. There is no way I will allow myself to be without a plan.

I get it.

But you're 100% helpless in your marriage right now. And definitely don't have a plan that I can see, beyond buying and begging your ww's affection crumbs and hoping someday that she does a cranial rectal inversion. You've handed over all the power and control to someone who has shown you a gobsmacking lack of care. That stops when you say when.

Please take the time while your ww is gone on her training to really look at things and think about what you actually want. What's that saying? If you keep doing what you always did, you'll keep getting what you always got. You deserve better than this.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

posts: 3140   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8675409
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 HowCouldSheDoIt (original poster Member #78431) posted at 1:23 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Rocket:

Why won't she give you 'comfort breaks' spontaneously and from her, as opposed to you asking for them?

She has, but on her terms, not when I need them. She doesn't think about the A, doesn't consider my feelings, and when I state my needs she feels I am being controlling. I could give you an example discussion, but ultimately it will boil down to "She's not R material and I won't find out if she ever will be until I D."

Ultimately, you will have to delve deeper into the dynamics of your M, but not with a MC, but with an IC. Both you and your WS need to sort your own issues out first, before even thinking about going for MC.

We're not in MC, I would do it if we had an MC like CaptainRogers but I don't know where you find one like that. I did call her but she won't work with couples from a different state.

The situation is generally:

I would like to R, make up for my prior behaviors which are probably not abusive but were generally shitty. That wasn't how I want to behave and I've changed. We were happy, I believe we can be again.

I'm not able to do this because my interpersonal trust and vulnerability for her is very low. For whatever reason, she is not willing (not able?) to step up.

One one hand it is a waiting game, some have told me their WS "got it" later, after a year or two of living as roommates. Things clicked and they were able to rebuild. On the other hand I also know it takes pain to make a change, like filing for D.

Me: BH Early 50's
Her: WW Early 50's
D-Day Nov 2020
Married 21 years before D-Day
3 children
Working toward reconciling. The most difficult thing I've had to do in my life.

posts: 239   ·   registered: Mar. 3rd, 2021
id 8675411
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masti ( Member #54237) posted at 1:52 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

HCSDI have you considered a polygraph? The cold blooded way she went about it suggests that she might have done it before.

Have you asked her

- was this the first time?

- Will you do it again?

She is going away without a care and regard to your feelings. Maybe you need to take a break from her. Leave before she goes away.

posts: 119   ·   registered: Jul. 19th, 2016
id 8675414
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 1:56 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Crass as Thumos's comment is, I agree with him.

It was crass but for two reasons:

1. Because your wife's actions have been crass. So the reference wasn't really that crass in the context of what happened, because I think we can surmise based on your WW’s attitude, statements and actions this is pretty much where she would like to head. The sense of entitlement she has seems to telegraph it. It's pretty crass for a married woman to pick up a random guy at a resort and screw him -- and then express essentially defiance and pride over this act of fornication and betrayal.

2. Because I felt like it might be the only thing to cut thru the white noise. I don't mean this to kick you while you are down, but you are far too accommodating and diplomatic in your own language and approach. A bit more crassness and bluntness would do you good for yourself in this terrible situation. Shake your brain out of complacency.

I don't name call my own WW but I don't mince words or tiptoe around the ugliness of her affair either. I've said plenty of times something like “when you snuck around, brought another man into our home for the express purpose of fucking him and defiled this house.” I'm not rubbing her face in it but I'm not going to describe it in pretty language either.

I'm glad you aren't seriously considering leaving your job.

Do you really think this was a one-off, one time event with your WW?

I forget so forgive if this is repetitive: has she written down a timeline? Have you run retrieval software on her phone? Have you VAR’d her? Have you looked into a polygraph to test the veracity of the timeline?

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:00 AM, July 14th (Wednesday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8675415
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masti ( Member #54237) posted at 2:02 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

I forget so forgive if this is repetitive: has she written down a timeline? Have you run retrieval software on her phone? Have you VAR’d her? Have you looked into a polygraph to test the veracity of the timeline?

This.

How do you know that she has not got his number saved somewhere and is planning to hookup in this time she is away.

You seem to be working harder at reconciliation than her.

posts: 119   ·   registered: Jul. 19th, 2016
id 8675417
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HellFire ( Member #59305) posted at 2:04 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

How do you expect to be happy with a woman who

doesn't consider my feelings, and when I state my needs she feels I am being controlling

She doesn't care about you, and doesn't care what you need.

Why do you believe you can reconcile with an unremorseful WS?

posts: 3706   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8675418
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