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I have (3 years later) come to the conclusion that my WH is never going to come completely clean about the affair and I will never believe anything he says for the rest of my life. So, are we reconciling or just existing in the same home? I'm almost 50, so starting over seems stupid. I guess what I am asking is if forgiveness is off the table is reconciliation possible?

Reconciliation is only possible if BOTH people are trying to repair what was broken.

I also don’t think anyone has to forgive betrayal in order to reconcile.

Some forgive, more for themselves to be able to heal, it’s just a not a requirement in my mind.

If your WH isn’t taking steps to be a safe partner, you’ll have to decide if that’s enough for you to stay.

Sounds to me like existence, and not much of a good existence— life is too short to stay miserable. I also tend to think it’s never too late to start over in life.

Take care of YOU.

I have (3 years later) come to the conclusion that my WH is never going to come completely clean about the affair and I will never believe anything he says for the rest of my life. So, are we reconciling or just existing in the same home? I'm almost 50, so starting over seems stupid. I guess what I am asking is if forgiveness is off the table is reconciliation possible?

I'm in very much the same situation. I want to be brutally honest with you here: No, given the conditions of incomplete transparency and lack of trust, I don't think real reconciliation is possible. This is the conclusion I'm having to come to myself.

I am 50. My WW's affair was 4.5 years ago. Starting over is not stupid. Don't get caught up in the sunk costs fallacy.

You can make a choice to stay. You can make a choice to leave. Neither is stupid. Both have pros and cons.

Also don't conflate forgiveness and reconciliation. you can easily forgive and divorce, or forgive and reconcile. Forgiveness is a separate issue from reconciliation, although forgiveness does go hand in hand with reconciliation in some sense.

Why is starting over at 50 stupid?

You don’t have to remarry.

You don’t have to be their wife and do their laundry lol

You can eat dinner with a different guy every night if you wanted to.

Beats being miserable with your spouse iMO

I don’t feel I’ve fully forgiven my H for the betrayals he perpetrated against me. But I do believe I got at least 80% of the full truth, and most of all the “big stuff” ( he lied about stupid crap like the number of bike rides he took with OW, but was straightforward about the much more gut-wrenching revelations that he could have chosen to take to his grave).

But if after 3 years you don’t believe he respects you enough to give you the truths you want, other than being 50, what are your reasons to tie up your life with him? Do you believe you can have a good life married to him? Do you believe the risk of staying outweighs the possibility that he’ll continue to disrespect you by lying and possibly worse? It may be harder to leave him at age 60 than at 50.

But if your heart and head tell you he’s worth the risk, only you can make that call. Others will likely ask: what has your H done over the past 3 years to make himself a healthier and better human being? Has he gained any new insights? Fixed the damaged parts of himself that allowed cheating to be his go-to fix for his problems?

If he’s done “the work” you have something to work with.

Like Thumos, I'm in the same boat - and pushing 60.

I think for many folks it's impossible to R if the WS continues to lie/minimize the A(s). Some seem to be able to accept/move past the continued lies/TT from the WS. I'm just not one of them.

OP, I am sorry but how can you reconcile if you don't even know what you are trying to reconcile with?

You may feel you are stuck, but maybe you are not as stuck as you think. Perhaos there are other viable oaths available to you. Have you explore all options?

I read your profile and there is no way your WH didn't have a PA. Your WH doesn't meet the most basic and fundamental requirements for the gift of reconciliation which is honesty. You don't want to be back here a few years down the road finding out the truth then or worst yet he cheats again. It seems he has suffer little to no consequences for last transgression. If you decided to stay put, try to get a post-nup, not saying it's easy, but it at least offer you some financial security.

Strength to you and best of luck.

True reconciliation is never cheap, for it is based on forgiveness which is costly. Forgiveness in turn depends on repentance, which has to be based on an acknowledgment of what was done wrong, and therefore on disclosure of the truth. You cannot forgive what you do not know.

Forgiving and being reconciled to our enemies or our loved ones are not about pretending that things are other than they are. It is not about patting one another on the back and turning a blind eye to the wrong. True reconciliation exposes the awfulness, the abuse, the hurt, the truth. It could even sometimes make things worse. It is a risky undertaking but in the end it is worthwhile, because in the end only an honest confrontation with reality can bring real healing. Superficial reconciliation can bring only superficial healing.

True reconciliation is based on forgiveness, and forgiveness is based on true confession, and confession is based on penitence, on contrition, on sorrow for what you have done.

~Archbishop Desmond Tutu

Tutu is persuasive on many things, but with infidelity, I believe R and forgiveness are separate.

Reconciliation and honesty, though, are joined at the hip and everywhere else. Reconciliation is also joined 100% with the WS owning their shit and changing.

Almost 50 ... I'm almost 77. I won't even think about living with someone I don't trust for 27+ years. One's body deteriorates over time, but I have enough energy and awareness even now to think that life can be very good, but not if I had to live with someone I feared would stab me, figuratively speaking, again.

At 50, your life extpectancy is more than 33 years. Do you want to live with him for 33+ years? Do you want to care for him if he gets sick? Do you want him to care for you if you get sick?

It depends. Are you happy? It doesn't matter what other people consider R. It matters what you think.

Do you feel like you are just existing in the same house? Are you ok with just existing in the same house? If you are then do that. If you aren't, then he can do what you need or you can leave.

Do what makes you feel happy and at peace.

I wouldn't be happy if I couldn't get the whole story and if I felt I could never believe anything he says for the rest of his life. But I want a relationship that is intimate and bonded and connected. If you don't care about that then you're good. If you do care about it - stop settling for this. We only get one life. Yours belongs to YOU.

Hi @Breachoftrust I'm so sorry you've had to deal with the pain of betrayal and it seems 3 years on, there are still trust issues you are dealing with. The honest reality is that trust once broken takes time to rebuild.

From my own experience. you can choose reconciliation whilst still working on forgiving especially if you know that there is true remorse and a mutual commitment to working on the relationship.

Just wondering, did you both have counseling after the affair? I only ask because in my case my H and I tried to work on reconciliation by ourselves but it didn't work as many issues were being rug swept. It was only when a trusted and wise mentor of ours came alongside us to help counsel us individually and together that we began to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I believe choosing to forgive is important for your healing and beneficial for R and I also don't think it's a one off decision. For me the decision to forgive is an everyday choice and with everyday I make that choice, it gets easier.

I'm always rooting for true R in marriages and I hope and pray that the near future brings complete healing for your emotions and true R for your marriage. Wish you all the best!

[This message edited by BellaLee at 8:54 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

You cannot forgive a thing that is ongoing. If lying is part of what needs forgiving, then you can only hope to forgive if the lying has completely stopped. Unless and until you know all that it is that you need to know and your wayward spouse is completely honest and transparent, you cannot forgive what continues to exist. You cannot forgive the cheating unless the cheating has stopped and you cannot forgive the lying or manipulations until they too have stopped.

Rebuilding trust is essential to reconciliation. It's hard to know what you mean by "completely clean" but I'll assume that you mean that he hasn't answered your questions.

I went through a similar situation. Early in R my FWW made getting answers torturous. I gave up too quickly and just settled for acceptance.

But I'm fortunate that through IC my FWW did reach a point where she was truly remorseful and accepted full responsibility. That should have been my cue to circle back and clear the air but I had already swept it all under the rug.

So the question is, is he doing anything to understand why he did what he did and what the real harm was? Has he been remorseful and taken responsibility?

I'm guessing no, given that he won't come clean. If that's the case I don't know how anyone could really reconcile.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 8:05 PM, July 8th (Thursday)]

You are never obligated to stay with him forever. Please know that.

Also I was ready to D my H at 53 with teens. I didn’t care if I ever dated again. It was the marriage or my sanity. And I chose my sanity over staying married to someone who was lying and cheating.

I’d be happy no matter what. But that is just me.