SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Given the prevalence of cheating it seems that sooner or later we will find a WS sitting across the table from us trying to start a relationship. I think I would be okay if they were remorseful and had done the IC needed to become a safe partner, but their BS just couldn’t live with what they had done or if they came to this place after divorcing. What terrifies me is having someone like my ex sitting across the table who has no problem rewriting their history. The type of person who has no issue with outright lies to get what they want.

The first problem is how do you detect them? As many of us know an unrepentant WS can be very accomplished at deception and lying.

And second how do you get out of the relationship without teaching them how to deceive better in the future?

I appreciate honesty and want to be honest in return, but if my honesty allows them to learn to deceive better that’s also a really bad outcome. At times it makes me want to just be single the rest of my life.

Thoughts?

I think the best option in this case would be to take the relationship slowly. Don't get too involved too quickly and don't give too much of yourself away. From what I can tell, most abusive or narcissistic relationships (the kind you would have with a cheater) involve early attempts to push your buttons, violate boundaries, and so on. You know now what you didn't know at the beginning of your marriage: how to have boundaries and how to know when someone is trying to break them. If someone does not respect your boundaries, good riddance! They will sort themselves out.

Honesty is so huge to me. Because of this place, and some people I know in real life, I know that there are such things as truly former wayward. That people can dig really deep and do the work.

Believe it or not, and I'm still amazed I did this, the last man I dated was a former WS. He revealed it to me on our first date. I never asked him, but I had given him a very small nutshell version of why I am divorcing. He told me about his past immediately. He said to not mention it would have felt completely dishonest to him. He asked me if it was a deal-breaker. I thought long and hard, and told him not necessarily. I watched his actions and listened to his words. He had gone to IC for years and years and dug really deeply into the dark places of his childhood and self. I heard what I needed to hear to feel that it was safe to move forward.

Ultimately, the relationship didn't pan out, but it wasn't because of his past or any wayward tendencies.

I think there are plenty of people out there dating who don't admit to being the cheater in past relationships. There's a part of me that feels safer with a wayward that is honest enough to put it out there, and has done the work (BS is here know what that looks like, so we can spot it pretty well I think)... Than a "non wayward" who could be just a really adept liar.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 5:01 AM, June 28th (Monday)]

whoa, would never, ever go there. someone has cheated in a marriage? - not for me, ever. it's too much "strange" for me to deal with. i can't work out why people treat, despite having read all the damn books, so because i don't understand that, i don't want to be near that level of dysfunction.

i would not date someone who has cheated in a major relationship, no.

whoa, would never, ever go there.

I do feel this way going forward; that's if I ever date again. Which won't happen for a very very long time. I'm in selfish mode for the foreseeable future.

Yeeeaaaahhhh, that's a hard pass for me. I would never date a cheater, even if they'd 'done the work'. If SI has shown me nothing else, it has illustrated that there are PLENTY of good loyal people out there who would never cheat. Fidelity is a core value of mine and I will never again compromise on my core values.

Yes, I completely get the boundaries part of it, but there are tradeoffs when you are trying to create a relationship so it's not as simple as my way or the highway. People with that philosophy end up as serial daters looking for the perfect person. My ex had a few red flag early on, but I think it was more a MLC and growing into her dysfunction or at a minimum letting it out that turned her into the toxic partner she ended up to be.

The part everyone is missing is how do you know the other person was or even worse is a WS? I was having dinner with my mother one night when I was in the later part of my divorce and my mother almost randomly said "I'm sorry." This was not in context for what we were discussing so I asked her "What for?" Her response was "Believing the lies" my ex had been telling her for years. As it turned out my ex had been calling her regularly for years bad mouthing me and after the affair, failed reconciliation and subsequent divorce proceedings she had observed exactly who each of us were by our actions. As you can assume I did not live up to the description my ex had given for all those years.

And maybe it just that. It takes time observing their actions, but a skilled deceiver can hide their true identity for a long time and can you actually establish a relationship waiting that long?

It's easy to say I would never date a WS, but how do you actually know you are not? Oh and if you think well I will only date a BS because they will be safe. Sorry, no guarantee there either. My ex was the BS in her first marriage.

I also agree there are a lot of good people out there. What I'm trying to figure out is how to walk the minefield of borderline, covert narcs, etc. and not get ensnared wasting what time I have left. To be honest I think statistically widows from long term relationships may be the safest, but I'm not going to be macabre and start looking at the obituaries for dates!

My partner cheated on his first wife with his second wife. He told me this on our first date. To be completely frank, I wasn't really interested in a serious relationship at the time, so I didn't walk away immediately. I understand now what the situation was at that time. He didn't handle it well and he owns it completely. I really don't worry about history repeating itself now because there were factors in play that are not at all present now. Yes, I'm being deliberately vague, but my point is that you really have to look at the whole situation.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 9:32 AM, June 28th (Monday)]

of course many, many (most?) cheaters reform and can go on to have loyal and committed relationships.

But for me - I just don't feel I would happy taking the risk.

So I'd rather write them off from the start.

I also don't believe the whole "they are narcs and evil and lack empathy" narrative that has colonised infidelity circles. People make all sorts of incredibly bad decisions for all sorts of reasons.

but i would jsut find it too uncomfortable dating a WS. It would play on my mind. So it's a dealbreaker for me.

"they are narcs and evil and lack empathy"

I hope I didn't imply a WS in general has these characteristic. It's just this subset I'm trying to avoid. It's also this subset who seems particularly good at deceiving others so how do you even know they are a WS? They are likely not going to tell you. They are going to act totally different to win you over and then over time the real person they are slowly leaks out.

I have a friend who was both a BS and a WS in different relationships. She is the single IRL person I know of who has done the work to be a safe partner. If she was single I would not exclude her just because she was a WS in a prior relationship. On the flip side is my ex who I feel sorry for anyone who tries to have a relationship with her. She puts on an amazing mask, but what actually lurks beneath is the complete opposite.

What I'm trying to figure out is how to walk the minefield of borderline, covert narcs, etc. and not get ensnared wasting what time I have left. To be honest I think statistically widows from long term relationships may be the safest, but I'm not going to be macabre and start looking at the obituaries for dates!

IMO, I think this comes down to having really solid boundaries for yourself so you can recognize red flags when they come up and act accordingly.

If dating a fws is not a deal-breaker, that's fine. I do know there are a lot of circumstances where people cheat that they can recover from and become safe partners. That all falls down to whether or not they have done the work on themselves, and only they can really know that. And the sad truth when you're dealing with potential romantic partners is that you just don't know until you're in a circumstance where shit happens. Taking it slow, checking in often with yourself, and being very mindful of red flags is the way to go.

We are all flawed humans who make mistakes and do the wrong things at times.

If this person can admit that they were flawed and wrong and they worked to make sure that they became better person... then I think that dating a former WS is okay. I'd be careful and watchful going forward, probably less likely to give the benefit of the doubt in certain situations.

By analogy, I wouldn't see a problem if you were to date an acknowledged alcoholic who had sought treatment and had not drank for several years. At the same time, I would be far more careful about seeing red flags as far as drinking than I would if I was dating a non-alcoholic.

For example, I think this guy would be a decent candidate given my standards (well, except that he's a guy and he's already in a relationship):

My partner cheated on his first wife with his second wife. He told me this on our first date.... I understand now what the situation was at that time. He didn't handle it well and he owns it completely.

All of that said, the biggest red flag that I have figured out in my new relationship is trust (or, more correctly, lack of trust). I *never* trusted xWW. My gut was telling me that something was wrong from the beginning.

Ironically, I learned this in my current relationship; I trust my GF 100%. Our relationship still has issues, but trust is not one. In hindsight, I've never had a serious relationship where I fully trusted the other person. And... it's a *very* different experience.

Interesting regarding trust. I did trust me ex. I never thought she would cheat, but I was most definitely wrong in that respect. Certainly red flags related to entitlement, being self-centered, basically most of the typical WS characteristics, but not trust. I guess that was a blind spot for me with her.

Now my GF post divorce I had some weird feelings about her after a while which eventually proved to be true. Not cheating, but certainly not someone for a long term relationship. Took care of that much quicker, so progress.

I think for me it might be harder to trust if I had ever had a healthy marriage and then my spouse cheated, that's a pain I cannot imagine. My marriage was always toxic and unhealthy. I was always anxious and on edge. There was lots of fighting and crying (well, lots of me crying lol) well before any cheating took place. My current partner has never made me cry, never called me a crazy bitch, doesn't fight dirty, etc. Etc. Sure, he might cheat, but there's no part of me that really worries about it. He doesn't do things to me that are hurtful or deceitful in general. This may be naive, but the relationship is just so different from my marriage that it isn't a concern. Even given his past as a WS.

This question pops up fairly regularly. Deciding whether it is a dealbreaker or not is a very individualized decision. Some folks will date a WS if the hard work has been done, actions match words, and so forth. Others simply won't no matter what.

But here's the thing. There are plenty of shitbags out there just waiting to prey on their next victim, and as many of us know, some can be incredibly convincing con artists. There really is no way to be 100% certain you haven't become another unwilling victim, short of not dating ever again.

If you've spent time working on recovering from your infidelity trauma, you will be strong enough to see it for what it is, walk away, and survive that possible storm, too. It will still suck, but you will survive. Go into any potential new relationship with that knowledge, hard won through experience, and self-confidence. Because, alas, there are simply no guarantees it won't happen again.

Personally, I won't knowingly date a former WS because my trust in them would always be in question (happens after 20+ years of betrayal), and that wouldn't be fair to a decent former WS that has done all the hard work.

Your mileage may vary. I stayed married to a ws the first time. I am divorcing him now. It didn't go well for me.

It's like in the Thomas the Tanker movies.....I am not willing to be with someone whose brakes have failed and sent them and those around them into "the buffers" aka the end of the line before.

That said, I might be friends with a ws (former) but even that would feel far too triggering and I would have a hard time even being business partners with a former ws unless they were really openly working on their proven propensity to betray people.

I just couldn't.

Regardless of whether they are truly remorseful, they have done the work etc. I know it sounds very harsh, but I know myself and I would get triggered like crazy. Also, someone can tell you they are truly remorseful because they expect that's what you want to hear but be anything but.

I recently had a date with a guy who was really nice. We were talking amiably and he then mentioned, very casually, that he had cheated on his ex wife. My blood ran cold. The date ended there and then for me.

As Ellie said, this site is the living proof that there plenty faithful, decent people who wouldn't dare crapping all over their loved ones, so I'll stick to them thank you very much.

I'm in annoying situation at the moment.

post divorce, i haven't many friends who are not married, with kids, etc.

So i was determined to get a few fellow male friends and hang out.

I have made a friend and we hang out - it's great, we hit the bars, he's funny, single, interesting. It's so nice to have some good reliable stable male company to chat shit and shoot the breeze!

"oh i saw escourts once or twice when my wife wasn't putting out" he told me the other day.

extremely triggered. confused. i really like the guy. we are very supportive of each other post divorce. he's good natured, kind.

but yeah, triggered. part of me wants to scream at him for doing that.

I think I just have to not let someone's entire self be defined by certain behaviours. but it's hard when he has done the evil that was done against me by my xW

I recently had a date with a guy who was really nice. We were talking amiably and he then mentioned, very casually, that he had cheated on his ex wife. My blood ran cold. The date ended there and then for me.

This touches more on what I am actually asking in this thread. So if this man was paying attention he noticed mentioning he cheated tanked the date. Do you think he will be honest and mention that again? Unless he has done a lot of work and accepts one of the consequences of his cheating is loosing dates he will likely switch to lying by omission if not outright lying.

I'm not asking would you willingly date a WS, more of the not knowing and if they are going to lie about it how best to figure this out without wasting a lot of time. Yes, being firm with our boundaries will over time weed these people out, but it may require significant time to weed out the skilled ones. Which unfortunately tend to be the worst in the long run.

For example lets say puffstuff is out on a hookup. Do you ask if they are married/in a relationship? Given what you have gone through I assume yes. If they answer does it matter/yes I assume you say no way. What do you think the answer will be the next time that question is asked?

Regarding your friend. Given how causally he mentioned his cheating he likely thinks it's no big deal and that is definitely not something I would be okay associating with. Maybe probe a bit more to see if he really does think it was no big deal.

Given how causally he mentioned his cheating he likely thinks it's no big deal and that is definitely not something I would be okay associating with. Maybe probe a bit more to see if he really does think it was no big deal.

Considering this friend used the term "putting out" while referring to his wife, I'm going to assume he doesn't think using prostitutes was a big deal. You know, because his wife is nothing but some wet holes which should be available to him at all times. What a misogynistic douche.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 3:39 AM, June 30th (Wednesday)]