Newest Member: Serenity7

Reconciliation :
Destroyed. I think this is the end. Please , please Help me

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maxfocs ( New Member #78596) posted at 10:36 AM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

Alucard, I come from a similar story but more complex and articulated, I too with my great love (who I met in Venezuela, but was German) I lived 19 years traveling around 4 continents and making adventures that have filled our soul and already eyes. We also have 2 children together, now we are separated (I don't dwell on the reasons, there have been many betrayals on my part before and some on her part after, but those are not the main reason anyway)Now we are separed , but friends, she live in Germany, me in Italy. Curiously, I also often use that phrase taken from Blade runner, symptomatic between you and me of a feeling in common with the way of perceiving life. And that is why to you, who surely can understand this, I say one thing. Nothing is ours, nothing is forever, Entropy occurs on all fronts, not just on matter. What must happen happens and when it happens it hides the reasons for its reasons. You must not take the end of your story as an insurmountable drama, but as a new opportunity for life, new doors that open, new paths to walk, Every time a door closes, we feel it as death, but they are the our small (even if human) attachments to make us do it, our fear of losing what we are and what we identify in others, outside, making mistakes. You have seen a lot, so you have perceived a lot and those wonders of the clear sunsets of the deserts, the snow-capped peaks that make the soul rise and the crystal seas that give sweet peace to our bodies, will always be there, unchanging in what they transmit and always in able to renew life in those who rely on it. Our attachments are our undoing (Gautama-Buddha) trust that what is happening to you is to bring new ways of knowledge and love on your path. And I wish you bright .... "Lovers will be lost, but love will be saved and death will no longer have dominion" (Dylan Thomas)

[This message edited by maxfocs at 4:39 AM, June 29th (Tuesday)]

posts: 50   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: toscana
id 8670824
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 8:10 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

@maxfocs

Thank you. this is beautiful and powerful. It moved me a lot

I fully understand what you mean. You've captured my deepest feelings.

My pain has been from my spirit, and I understand that I can heal only from the spirit. I've to accept and let go.

Thank you for your words.

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8670976
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maxfocs ( New Member #78596) posted at 8:28 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

Alucard, I knew you would understand

posts: 50   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: toscana
id 8670978
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 9:30 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

My wife has contacted me.

She said she accepts ALL my conditions, fully.

That she wants to build our vision with me and move forward together.

I'm struggling.

A part of me wants that. I guess is the KISA in me? I'm experiencing a great deal of anxiety and pain. My body and my soul are telling me that I should not trust her.

[This message edited by alucard at 3:32 PM, June 29th (Tuesday)]

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id 8670988
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EllieKMAS ( Member #68900) posted at 9:41 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

Take off your heart hat for a second and put on your logic cap.

What changed from 5 days ago when she claimed your requirements for R are abusive?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but she's done this "I'm sorry I'm wrong I'll do what you want" dance before yeah? And then claims 'abuse' again when she wants to do what she wants and feel like you're not letting her.

So what makes it different now?

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 9:43 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

I've validated her feelings, her pain, and offered that we will work in that TOO (therapy) while addressing the infidelity and the destruction that has caused.

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8670994
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EllieKMAS ( Member #68900) posted at 9:48 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

I've validated her feelings, her pain, and offered that we will work in that TOO (therapy) while addressing the infidelity and the destruction that has caused.

Yep. So far YOU have validated HER.

SHE has not yet validated YOU.

She cheated. She needs to validate you. She needs to own what she did and a huge part of that means empathizing with your pain. Which she has not yet done because she's been too busy blameshifting her decisions onto you.

All she's doing is promising to maybe address her affair sometime in the future. Maybe. If she feels like it. Someday.

This is where people say to watch ACTIONS and not words. Her actions are not showing any change whatsoever. IMHO, all she's doing is feeding you some pretty words and hoping you take the bait.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

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aprilfool1985 ( Member #56750) posted at 10:03 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

Actions, not words. As a bare minimum, you could request a complete timeline - who-what-when - to be completed within 24 hours. In addition, you could request that she locate a therapist with betrayal trauma experience and schedule a meeting, completing the scheduling in the next 36 hours.

Me: BS, of a certain age
Him: WS, of a certain age +3
events in question around 1985, M 1988, several adult children

posts: 106   ·   registered: Jan. 8th, 2017   ·   location: United States
id 8671000
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EllieKMAS ( Member #68900) posted at 10:06 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

I just wanted to add something for you to consider from my own experience.

About 5 months after my first dday, we were trying for R but had been spinning our wheels and not making much progress. We had an MC session and the lightbulb finally came on for me and I clearly laid out my demands for R and told him that unless he was willing to meet them, then we had to be done.

The next morning he came down the stairs in tears and threw himself on the floor sobbing about how he couldn't believe he'd hurt me, he'd been so stupid, he wanted to do whatever it took to fix things, blahblahblah. I remember at the time I felt so relieved - like... he finally 'got it'.

Two weeks later he and his ap had a sleepover in my bed while I was out of town.

Point being - his WORDS on the crying morning said all the right things. But he took no ACTION to back them up. Maybe he did really feel those things in that moment, I can't say. But I do know that when it came down to it, he was not willing to do any work or deal with his own discomfort in the long term, and that is what R takes - LONG TERM effort from both parties. If only one is willing to do the work, then R just can't happen.

Your ww is not DOING anything to address things or fix them - thus far you have just gotten nebulous promises and pretty words. I know how hard it is when you're in it, and how desperately you want her to 'get it', but just from my perspective she doesn't.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

posts: 3140   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 10:34 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

Thank you both

@aprilfool1985

I already have a timeline (not written).

She is looking for a trauma expert therapist.

@EllieKMAS

I know what you mean. That's why my body is screaming.

She has validated my pain and my feelings before and she has moments of regret and perhaps remorse.

However, this is also me wanting to believe her.

I'm having a horrible day.

Trembling with anxiety, headache, and an immense "bad feeling".

My guts are screaming. Something does not feel right.

I'm experiencing something strange. Like the walls are shrinking on me. Realty does not seem "real".

Terrible, terrible day.

[This message edited by alucard at 4:41 PM, June 29th (Tuesday)]

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8671008
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ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 10:42 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

I'm having a horrible day. Trembling with anxiety, headache and an immense "bad feeling".

You don't have to make any decisions today. Just stop and breathe. Look up four-square breathing... "in, two, three, four; out, two, three, four". A few good deep breaths can actually lower your blood pressure.

I know you really want everything to work out, but it's okay to take your time. Anyone who is rushing you is working there own agenda. You don't have to comply with that. Just breathe and take your time.

I do 100% agree with Ellie... spend some time watching your WW's actions. What's she willing to DO? Rome wasn't built in a day and it's going to take quite a while for her to re-build trust, trust that just a couple days ago she said she had no interest in. So, just slow it all down and take your TIME to observe what's real and what is just talk. You're going to be okay. Believe it.

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id 8671010
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 2:18 AM on Wednesday, June 30th, 2021

Thank you. I'll do that.

Another issue that I'm struggling with is that she confessed to me that she had feelings for this person but feelings are no longer there.

What the fuck this even means? Can I ever believe this? Am I just condemning myself for more agony and pain?

I realize that I'm no longer functioning on a rational level here. I recognize that I'm completely broken by all this and I perhaps I fail to see the obvious and take control back of my life.

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8671047
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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 2:40 AM on Wednesday, June 30th, 2021

Another issue that I'm struggling with is that she confessed to me that she had feelings for this person but feelings are no longer there.

What the fuck this even means?

It means her "love" is situational.

Who she has "feelings for" depends on a completely selfish cost-benefit analysis.

But now it is time for you to analyze: what does it matter to you that now she feels differently?

She did what she did. Now you decide if you can accept a life with this person, not her.

posts: 873   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8671051
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 2:55 AM on Wednesday, June 30th, 2021

Right.

Since the beginning of this shitshow, I told her to go. To go live the life she wanted. To go explore this new relationship.

The only thing I've ever asked her, in the name of our long love and friendship was to do not bring me into the mud and to be honest with me.

That's all I've ever asked.

She told me she wanted R.

I don't understand why she truly wants from me.

[This message edited by alucard at 8:58 PM, June 29th (Tuesday)]

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8671057
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 6:46 PM on Wednesday, June 30th, 2021

A part of me wants that. I guess is the KISA in me? I'm experiencing a great deal of anxiety and pain. My body and my soul are telling me that I should not trust her.

Even if you genuinely want R, KISA tendencies will intrude. My reco is to keep telling yourself you can't save your W and asking yourself 'What do I want?'

My strongest possible recos are

1) Do not beat yourself up over your uncertainty, and

2) Heed the warnings to watch what your W does - actions count a lot, words, not so much.

I'm pro-R. Even so, I'll mention that your W's history doesn't look very positive for R. Doing the timeline, though ... I didn't expect that. IOW, your uncertainty is not unreasonable.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:47 PM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26008   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8671222
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 7:45 PM on Wednesday, June 30th, 2021

All cheaters lie a lot. BEWARE!!!!

posts: 6611   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8671242
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 10:21 PM on Wednesday, June 30th, 2021

Thank you Sisoon.

I'll be mindful of that

I'm hoping she will maintain NC.

At this point, I don't know I could verify that, she got better at hiding

Marz, I've learned that

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8671309
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nekonamida ( Member #42956) posted at 10:23 PM on Wednesday, June 30th, 2021

Doing the timeline, though ... I didn't expect that. IOW, your uncertainty is not unreasonable.

To be fair, his timeline isn't written. So that means it's been verbal and well, it's easy to say, "I didn't say that" "I didn't mean that" or "It's not like that" when it's not a self-written one.

Alucard, ask her to write out a timeline and compare what you already have. Take things slow. Let her get some IC and have her read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" before you start to invest in R. Give it some time.

posts: 4961   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8671311
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 1:51 AM on Thursday, July 1st, 2021

I don't feel too engage in the written timeline right now.

I'm feeling very angry today, and use the anger as fuel to get myself out of the depressive state and more into an action-based state.

I took advantage if the energy coming from anger to reflect on everything instead of swimming in my pain

I realized the following (I'm focusing on the bad):

- W said she accepts all my conditions and wants to absolutely work on M with everything she/we have

- I'm sure W is still in limerance for the AP. She told me "you wan me to hate this person but I won't"

- W is probably pining, and who knows, perhaps in contact? ( I don't think so)

- She is regretful but I don't think remorseful

- She feels my pain, but she cannot really engage from a place of full empathy. I still can't expect much from her in terms of my healing. Her focus is the harm I've done to her and the need for that to be healed

- She says I am always sad. Well, no fucking shit. That's why infidelity is so goddam unfair. First, she broke me, now I'm a downer/less attractive because I'm broken and sad

- She says she wants to regain my trust; let's see what she will actually do

- She still sees the affair as a consequence of my behavior, not as an independent choice she made. She says she takes her responsibility BUT it would have never happened if I didn't abuse her/treat her badly

- She is constantly in blaming mode; she blames me for her excessive drinking (coping mechanism for the "abuse". Funny, she was drinking before I met her, like her WHOLE goddam family) blames me for almost anything that happened in our marriage

- I agreed to see a trauma-based therapist to go over my supposed abuse, and the consequences on me of her betrayl

- I don't feel she prioritize the M. Once more her friend is coming to stay with us for 7/10 days while I asked her to take some time away from everything and go away me and her on a trip

I need to truly reflect on all this and make a goddam choice. I'm feeling very angry. My life has been robbed from me. I spent one year in this shithole of reality. I'm a great person and I deserve so much more than this.

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8671354
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EllieKMAS ( Member #68900) posted at 3:50 AM on Thursday, July 1st, 2021

I need to truly reflect on all this and make a goddam choice. I'm feeling very angry. My life has been robbed from me. I spent one year in this shithole of reality. I'm a great person and I deserve so much more than this.

Ding ding ding!!! Yes. You absolutely DO deserve better than the very little she's offering.

Anger gets shit done my friend so fan the flame. Use it to help you make your choice because I promise you no matter what shakes out you will not regret getting yourself out of infidelity.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"Being weird is just a side effect of being awesome."– Unknown

posts: 3140   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8671390
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