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perception vs. truth

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nekonamida posted 3/23/2021 10:21 AM

I don’t even know where to start with all of that: whether the fact that the genesis of our coming together romantically was founded on a lie of hers, or the ease with which she was either lying then or now, or just … the way her mind works.

I'm betting he was jealous because she was acting sketchy. I wouldn't be surprised if he caught her having an inappropriate relationship with someone else. If this was just a case of them deciding they weren't compatible, there wouldn't be all this secrecy and drama surrounding it. If you know how to contact her exfiance, it could bring you some clarity about her history since she sure as hell isn't going to be honest about it. That's in addition to all the good advice about PIs and VARs.

grubs posted 3/23/2021 10:39 AM

Have you set a date for the wedding? If so, I hope it is a ways off so you have the time you need to figure this out. You have every right to be concerned, because your fiance is revealing herself to be a selfish, lying person, even if she isn't a cheater (unlikely). Good luck.

Even without the wedding, children will tie you to her for 20 years. I'd be worried about that right now more than the wedding. Especially if she is picking up on your misgivings.

MickeyBill2016 posted 3/23/2021 11:08 AM

Don't feel bad if you are doing some investigating. If you smell smoke in the house will you go look in the kitchen and garage to see where the smoke is coming from?
Maybe the neighbor is having a BBQ or maybe your dryer is on fire.
The things that you mention are enough for further research...

When I first had some suspicion with my XWW I intentionally left my phone at home and said hey I need to make a call, can I use your phone...her eyes widened and she said "um...sure, here let me finish something i was working on (phone was in her purse) and she closed some apps and handed me the phone but stood way to close and looking back at it I think she was ready to grab it and run...

asc1226 posted 3/23/2021 11:24 AM

. If you know how to contact her exfiance, it could bring you some clarity about her history since she sure as hell isn't going to be honest about it.

I’d hold off on this unless it becomes a last resort. He has no obligation to you or your relationship. If has issues about the way things ended he may not be able to keep quiet about your contacting him and why. Even if he doesn’t tell your gf they may still have friends/acquaintances in common he might confide in.

Bigger posted 3/23/2021 11:31 AM

Ex fiancé wont give you anything to build on. He has no reason to be truthful and all he can do is cast more doubt on an already murky situation.
If she is in an affair they need to communicate. That’s where your solution lies. Where does she feel safe to talk?

Regarding her phone: I know of at least two husbands that simply took their spouses phone, went to the local techno-geek and had the content copied. Then the phone is conveniently found just outside the door in the rose-patch or behind the big couch in the living room…

Westway posted 3/23/2021 11:34 AM

Absolon she is lying man. She is lying about the circumstances surrounding the breakup of her last engagement. She was most likely still dating him when she got together with you, and waited to make sure you were a better bet for her than he, and then she dumped him hard. Or, she was two timing him with someone else and he assumes it was you.

Track the guy down and talk to him. Look, the worst he can do is tell you to fuck off. At least you made the attempt.

Some are telling you not to do this. I encourage you to be bold and do this. Absolon this is your future you are dealing with. There is nothing more important right now than finding out about the truth of her prior engagement and breakup, and where you fit into all that. Don't get dragged down a hole you cannot escape from. That fiancée of yours sounds like a predator and a master manipulator.

Gather evidence on this new OM. This rabbit hole goes down farther than you think it does.

[This message edited by Westway at 11:37 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday)]

Cooley2here posted 3/23/2021 11:39 AM

This is 2021 so women should be able to be assertive about their interest in a man. It sounds like she was a little more than that. She was an engaged woman when she began to show interest in you. You have boundaries so you did not participate until her engagement was broken. There is a lot about her behavior all along that sounds sketchy. I just think she’s very immature even for someone in her 30s. Our personalities, and our behaviors, and our interest are pretty set by that age. This will be the second engagement that she’s iffy about. Sometimes it takes people a long time to grow up. You don’t want to be married to someone who is still growing up.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 11:40 AM, March 23rd (Tuesday)]

The1stWife posted 3/23/2021 12:27 PM

She did this same exact crap to the fiancé before you.

She’s doing it to you now.

What more do you need to decide that she has some serious issues — that have nothing to do with you.

If she’ll cheat with you (in her early lame attempts at flirting with you) she will cheat on you. And she’s a classic case of serial cheater.

Sorry for you.

HouseOfPlane posted 3/23/2021 13:21 PM

She said ‘no’. I then asked, ‘Just because he hates me so much?’ And she said, ‘Oh, what? He doesn’t hate you at all!
It's hard work keeping lies straight.

My situation was the opposite. I was waiting for what would be my future wife to not be with her long term boyfriend. She told me it was over, but didn't tell him. I'm pretty sure he wanted to kill me. I asked her, "Thought you guys broke up?"

If I was to ever see him again, I would apologize.

HalfTime2017 posted 3/23/2021 13:42 PM

I haven't seen this mentioned in the other post, so I thought I'd mention this.

YOu both are continuing to have sex with each other. With her cheating as a very likely possibility here, you had better take precautions on NOT getting her pregnant. The last thing you want is to get a cheating fiance preggos to get you locked in. You never know her motives.

Additionally, when you ask her certain questions, ie about the ex fiance and so forth, it might tip her off. If you get your VAR prior to your trip, you'll probably get some intel before leaving just by making such comments. She's going to potentially freak, and call the Other man and say that you may know whats up and make plans to take things further underground. All that info, should be enough for you to peace out. If you do get confirmation, the first thing you should do is get that verifiable information to the other mans girlfriend/wife. You can also then take this info to her ex fiance and clear the air there as well. The others are probably correct. YOu don't know how that all went down, just what she told you. For all you know, she made all that up about him hating you and she got caught cheating so the lst thing she wanted was for you and the ex fiance to talk.

faithfulman posted 3/23/2021 13:49 PM

When you go on your trip, it will be prime-time for her to have him over to your house, so be prepared.

Also be prepared to track her location - find my phone etc. so when you do talk to her, ask her where she is and cross-reference that with where she actually is, and screenshot that location!

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:49 PM, March 23rd (Tuesday)]

Westway posted 3/23/2021 17:05 PM

Inexpensive mini cameras with motion detection can be purchased anywhere. They have some on Amazon for cheap. Hide one in the bedroom or living areas while you're gone.

longsadstory1952 posted 3/23/2021 17:54 PM

How does she know what a guy she dropped five years ago thinks? This make any sense to you?

Be careful on the recorders in the bedroom. It’s a felony in some states. It’s called video voyeurism. And if there is sound, it’s a felony for sure. No exception for fiancé’s fucking around.

If you must do a camera, put it by the front door or living room.

You’d be better off hiring a pi. What if she goes to a hotel instead.

jb3199 posted 3/24/2021 04:20 AM

All cheaters are liars, but not all liars are cheaters.

You are on an infidelity website, and you are learning that most of her lies are often lies that a cheater uses. It DOESN'T mean that she is cheating, but it sure as hell is leading you in that direction.

I can't stress enough what Faithfulman and Bigger are suggesting--get the proof that YOU need to convince YOURSELF that she is being unfaithful. DON'T get to the point that you need to see her holding a smoking gun in her hand....although that would be the most clear proof that could be found. This is why I HIGHLY recommend the services of a PI. You admitted that surveillance is not one of your strongpoints, so don't rely on those abilities. A PI will know these tactics, along with the legalities that you may or may not overstep.

IF a PI turns up with inconclusive information, and if your gut is still screaming at you, then you may want to consider different methods....although by that point, you may already have another train of thought.

Hire the PI. Let a few weeks pass. Then see what has changed/turns up.

HouseOfPlane posted 3/24/2021 10:52 AM

Remember that the real question is not whether she is cheating, but whether you want to get married to her, and then be married to her (two obviously related but definitely different things, by the way).

Absolon posted 3/24/2021 12:22 PM

By way of a quick update …

I have hired a PI. They begin work tomorrow.

I have decided that I can’t wait for two and a half weeks to appease my conscience, so yesterday night I had a good chat with my oldest and best friend. He now knows what I am going through, and I am flying out to his city tomorrow evening for a long weekend there.

Have told my fiancée about the trip and her emotional response seemed curiously mixed. Either way, if something is going on, it will probably rear its ugly head with this ‘opportunity’.

At this moment, I have decided against VAR. With the wedding for September, we still haven’t invested that much money in it; and that which we have, will be able to retrieve (IE refundable deposits, etc). In other words, this isn’t going to be a messy legal and/or financial situation. If she is cheating, I will leave her quietly and without fuss.

The trauma this will cause me, if she is cheating, is already so enormous that I do not need to hear her whispering sweet nothings to another man.

Beyond that, as some of you have gently hinted at, there is the broader issue that I now see her differently regardless and that this has shed a transforming light on perhaps larger issues in the relationship – even without infidelity.

I am, sadly, reminded of a powerful quote from Othello about jealousy – which could be substituted here for the ‘death of trust’:

But jealous souls will not be answered so;
They are not ever jealous for the cause ,
But jealous for they’re jealous. It is a monster
Begot upon itself, born on itself.

Westway posted 3/25/2021 10:28 AM

There is nothing wrong with jealousy in and of itself. It is part of human nature, and despite the many people who wish to snuff it out, it will always be present in us to greater or lesser degrees. Jealousy is only bad when it is uncontrolled.

src9043 posted 3/25/2021 12:06 PM

Absolon: At the end of one of your posts, you expressed concern that your story and our responses would trigger a certain level of trauma in reliving our past experiences. Please do not be concerned whatsoever in that regard. My story is quite brutal as are most of the others you will read. I cannot undo what happened to me, but I can help someone else avoid the pitfalls I failed to dodge. I suppose there is a vicarious satisfaction in saving another from making the same mistakes. It is similar to watching a movie where you become emotionally invested in what happens to the hero or heroine. Unlike a movie, we can help and root for the good guy in these posts. While we are strangers, we share a common earth-shattering experience. We want justice to be done. That is what motivates me.

asc1226 posted 3/25/2021 12:35 PM

Good to hear that you’ve made some decisions and are moving towards resolving this one way or another.

Buster123 posted 3/25/2021 23:49 PM

Good decision to hire the PI, however I disagree with your decision to not use the VAR now, the VAR has proven to be a very valuable tool and in some cases has captured the "smoking gun" conversation where a PI couldn't because of different scenarios/circumstances, PIs are often limited to where people go/meet, the VARs expand the level of surveillance to where a PI is sometimes unable to go or get close to. Of course it's your decision but I strongly suggest you reconsider and use both the PI and the VARs, you may even ask your friend to listen to it for you if you think it would be too painful.

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