SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Charity hit the nail on the head, Fanny, as well as everyone who has posted since your latest update.

During this time of broken NC, has he paid back any of the money that he owes you? You know, the money that, when you asked him to pay you back, he gave you a flat-out "NO"? He may as well have told you to kiss his ass sideways.

I think you know being in contact with him is not a good idea, but you're still working on yourself, so I won't berate you. What does your IC have to say about why you're sabotaging yourself this way?

edited for typo

[This message edited by Lalagirl at 1:25 PM, April 9th (Friday)]

The ex and I are in contact again but not very much. I've seen him four times since the break up and we've had sex three times.

Do you know why you keep going back to someone who is definitely not a good long-term partner? Have you discussed this with your IC? As long as you keep having sex with him, do you think he sees any need to up his game? After all, he's getting laid with no responsibilities. It's every lazy and irresponsible man's dream.

I had written him a letter and he sat there while I read it to him. It was long and I literally poured my heart out.

Why are you sharing your feelings with someone who is so dismissive of them? Seriously, he doesn't DESERVE you to share ANYTHING with him. Nada. Zip. Your feelings should be reserved for someone who knows what to do with them. He doesn't.

I went to him because I was pissed he hadn't acknowledged my birthday and I guess his phone call last night was his attempt to rectify things.

This is who he is. As long as he can continue to enjoy a NSA relationship with you, he's going to. We teach people how to treat us. What you've taught him is that you are willing to accept very shoddy treatment from him and still buy him things and have sex with him. He's hit the jackpot!

Anyway, after reading the letter he said once his legal troubles are over we can "broach the subject" of us and when I asked him if he wanted this he said he didn't know what he wanted and that he can't really think about it with all the legal problems he has.

He wants to keep you on a string, and goodness gracious, you're all too willing to be there, aren't you? He's tickled to pieces he can keep you hanging around for sex and money while he dithers his life away and strings you along thinking he's going to "broach the subject" soon. My, we should all be so lucky.

The ugly truth: He's a good lover but not much else.

A good vibrator would be cheaper, more reliable and less emotional wear and tear.

The relatives he has living at his house have completely taken over and he doesn't even have a key to his house anymore. He admitted to having slept in his truck because he was locked out - he got home too late and they had locked the door.

This fellow seems the very definition of a hot mess. What is attractive about him again?

If that's not pathetic I don't know what is.

Again, and you're attracted to this . . . why?

I tried to go through his phone but couldn't but what I could see wasn't incriminating.

Makes no difference. There is no future in him. None. Nada.

I love him - yes I really do - but I'm done trying. The bubble has popped.

You don't love him. You love the idea of what he could be. Houses and cars are fixer-uppers, not people.

If he wants me, he can do the work

Why not, "if he wants me, that's too bad as I no longer want him."

He's right - he's in a lot of legal trouble right now and that has to end before we can even begin to move forward as a couple.

What about "He's in a lot of legal trouble which is the result of his poor life skills. I don't want to be chained to that particular millstone."

In fact, one of my friends at the party last night convinced me to join an online dating site on Saturday. We're going to do it together.

Why don't you get another good 6 months of IC under your belt and shed the romantic idea that this joker is going to change in any substantive way before you involve another person in what is at present a very unhealthy life.

Cat

"He says one thing and does another".

Fanny I hope you can see that this is you as well.

Anyway, after reading the letter he said once his legal troubles are over we can "broach the subject" of us and when I asked him if he wanted this he said he didn't know what he wanted and that he can't really think about it with all the legal problems he has.

This is the single most telling thing he said. Here's the translation Fanny.

Once you fix my legal troubles Fanny, we can have a vague discussion, in which I will tell you what I've told you the last 5 time you asked if this is going anywhere. NO. But the sooner you bail me out, the faster we can have the discussion. And you won't listen then either so I'm already thinking about what I want for Christmas while I'm wiping my feet off on you.

Wow...just wow...I needed to hear all of that. And I need to read it like 100 times.

Forgot to add that I ended up calling his lawyer and asking her for thr $3,000 back. I received an email last week that he dropped off a check and once it clears she will give me the money. So when I asked him for the money he said he didn’t have it but when his lawyer asked for the money he had a check the next day. I asked him about it and he said he borrowed the money but when asked who from he said, “that isn’t important “. Whatever...at least I’m getting the money back.

And while last night felt good and as usual he’s an amazing lover he’s a million times to Sunday the wrong guy in every way for me. I KNOW this but for some pathetic reason I always get sucked back in. My therapist said it’s because I hate to lose so I’m holding on because I don’t want to feel like I failed. She has a point there. But having read (and reread) your messages it would seem like moving on and letting him and the delusion of grandeur go I’m actually WINNING not losing. I’m gaining my self respect and dignity back and shedding a man that will never give me what I need and will always be out of reach emotionally.

I mean, seriously after all this time if he doesn’t know what he wants with us then he’ll never know and it’s about time I meet someone that knows what wants. And yes, I could wait six months before dating again but I respectfully disagree...I think it’s high time I put myself out there...I actually think dating will expedite my healing and help me realize what an idiot I’ve been for far too long. Will I meet a lot of frogs? I’m sure of it but having the confidence to put myself out there and be a woman of high worth and standards will give me a good, hard push to put him in my rear view mirror forever.

Thank you for your candor, your advice and “tough love”...I truly appreciate it and thank my lucky stars a place like this exists.

Your last post is all about him.

His $. His legal trouble. His lack of commitment to you. His lies that you hold into like “maybe we can broach the subject of a real relationship” blah blah blah.

Your friends need to have a serious intervention with you. Because they should tell you to stay away and they should try to do everything in their power to keep you away.

You are seriously addicted to this drama. Google affair fog — you are like the OW except he is the OM and you are the delusional AP who doesn’t see the reality for what it is.

You can choose to focus on you or you can keep living in this empty life and hold out for a relationship with this jerk.

One thing is clear. You —- and only you —— are sabotaging yourself, your future, your self esteem, your opportunity for a better life etc.

I really hoped you would have wised up already. You rave how great your therapist is. But you sabotage any positives coming out if the help the therapist is providing.

You keep sinking further and further. Everyone here wants to help you. But you don’t want to help yourself.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:08 PM, April 9th (Friday)]

At the end of the day is having great sex worth all the bullshit and destructiveness and unhealthyness and negative emotions it brings you?

To be blunt, he fucks you good (your words). What are you going to do fuck 24/7 seven days a week?

Like cat said a good vibrator can be just as effective without all the aggravation.

Stop thinking like an animal.

Hopefully at some point you'll realize he's not the problem....you are!!

He's shown you who and what he is, but you keep going back for more.

If you had a problem with cocaine it wouldn't behoove you to go to a party where cocaine was everywhere.

You seem like a bright girl Fanny but what part of NO CONTACT don't you understand??

I would go back and read catwoman's last post again and again as it summarizes what's going on.

Is this really how much you value yourself and how you want to live your life?

You don't love him. You love the idea of what he could be. Houses and cars are fixer-uppers, not people.

I agree with this 100%. Addicted to trying to fix a broken human being = codependency.

Your focus is on trying to fix his brokenness instead of putting the focus on you and trying to fix your brokenness. It involves taking a step back and observing who you are and also your interactions with others.

It's easier for you to try and fix what is around you instead of what is inside of you.

I believe you can't clearly see yourself and what others are seeing. And that is why it is hard for "you" to change "your" thinking. I was there at one point and it sucks. I feel for you.

Is he some sort of addict? I don't remember reading if you said he was or not. I want to say that you mentioned he had a drinking problem but I don't remember for sure.

A

nd yes, I could wait six months before dating again but I respectfully disagree

Oh honey you don't get it at all.....

You need at least 6 months of time alone to learn to be fully content and fulfilled alone. To love yourself and not look to anyone else to make you feel happy loved or content. Until you do this you are going to keep repeating the shitty choices. Over and over and over.

Block him be alone. Learn to be comfortable like that.

Most of us get what you are going through because most of us have already been in your situation. And some of us but are past the hard part of deciding whether to try and repair the relationship, divorce, and some of us have just stayed in limbo (on the fence or can't decide what to do). I stayed in limbo for several reasons. I also wasn't strong enough to leave my marriage. And in my case, my marriage ended in Death Do Us Part.

If it weren't for this, I would still have been with him today. Still putting up with his immoral behaviors, still being emotionally abused. And maybe I would have had to deal with his out of control drinking again. My bar was set so low. Terrible what I allowed myself to accept.

Since my husband's death, I've become a people watcher instead of a people pleaser because I am tired of getting myself in hurtful situations. Don't get me wrong, I still do have the desire to please but it is in a much more controlled way now. People watching including watching "me" and my actions has been a game changer for me.

These are some things I have observed in my people (and me) watching journey:

I am realizing that other people do like me and I don't have to do anything except for to be me!

I've also realized that there are mean people out there in this world and it has nothing to do with me! They are just mean and mean!

My kid's and their spouses really do love me and it isn't because they just want me for my money. Lol They respect my opinion. And both my kid's are doing well for themselves.

I've come to accept that there are people who value me and I am worth the respect, love, honesty, faithfulness, kindness, friendship, etc. But as I said earlier, there are always going to be a time when we gave to deal with mean, hurtful, rude people.

I am in a situation right now where I hired someone to work with my horse. This "trainer" has been so nasty to me for awhile now. She is rude to me, rolls her eyes, won't give me the time of day, gasps for breath if I want to ask her a question about my horse. And the shoer who trims my horses hooves gives me attitude too. Those two are buddies.

I talked to her one time about how I don't like her treatment towards me and she got got mad and her feelings were hurt and she started to gossip about me to others, instead of realizing that she and her attitude were the problem. And honestly, she isn't that great of a trainer because if she were, she would have good listening skills.

Well, it happened again a couple days ago, those two were so damn rude to me. And I am paying them for their poor quality services!!!

Remember I told you that I have been people watching this past year, so when I was putting around on my horse the other night, I stopped to talk to her (and the farrier) about my mare. They were SO rude to me, ignored me, acted like they were better than me, yet she is a 39 year old single mother who still lives at home with her mother. Not knocking it, just don't judge me and I won't judge you.

Anyways, because I have taken up to people watching, I pretty much put myself in the middle of their drama the other night and just observed their shitty treatment towards me. I almost wanted to start laughing if their rudeness wasn't so hurtful. My gut was SCREAMING at me that enough was enough! But I just sat there on my horse and observed their hateful behaviors towards me. Before I would have internalized their mistreatment as if I was doing something wrong and would get so insecure.

Anyway, I am done with them. I have decided that I'm going to give my 2 week notice to the ranch and move my horse away from them and to another location. And I am also planning on walking away peacefully.

In the past I would have wanted to try and change their opinions of me by being nice to them, giving them gifts, trying to make friends with them, trying to gain their trust. Ugh In other words, I would have tried to fix them and their personality defects. I wanted to mold them into nice, good people which they aren't capable of being.

I am so happy to be able to now see that for most of my life I was attracted to mean, abusive people that I wanted to try to fix, to change and I also wanted to convince them that I was worthy of love and respect.

In this past year alone, "I" have taken the time to do some soul searching and my realization was that "I" needed to change my way of thinking and how "I" see people. "I" can't change them or other people but "I" can change myself. And "I" gave myself permission to walk away from this abusive

situation and to not put up with it anymore.

I am realizing that I have a choice to open my heart to good people who I respect and who also respects me. Today I work on distancing myself from the abusive people because let's face it, that is who they are. And I also know that I don't have to put up with it either.

I kind of see you like this too with your XBF, Fanny. You overlooked his abusive treatment of you, swept it under the rug, thinking you too could change him and mold him into what you believed he was capable of. Sadly it doesn't work that way and in the end we end up getting hurt.

[This message edited by Hurtmyheart at 1:29 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

Tushnurse - I'm ok with being alone. I've been living alone for many years.

Cat - I'm going to be memorizing your post. That was some brilliant stuff there.

Hurtmyheart - what you've said has resonated. Specifically: "Addicted to trying to fix a broken human being = codependency. It's easier for you to try to fix what is around you instead of what is inside you".

That seems to be the prevailing theme with every relationship I've had my entire adult life. Finding the poor, hapless soul and swooping down to try to save him because I see his "potential". That's one reason I'm in therapy - to figure out why I do that and then STOP doing it.

And while I've been mildly successful in turning these men into moderately successful people my current project has been a futile mission and I should have given up ages ago. But therein lies the problem - I have such a hard time admitting defeat that I do anything and everything I can think of to get him into a better place in life. And he takes advantage of that in spades by exploiting my feelings for his own personal gain.

But after my birthday and subsequent get together on Saturday I've finally admitted to myself that he's NEVER going to reach his potential. Yes, we saw each other on Saturday and talked - he said the letter had an effect on him but stated he doesn't want to be in a relationship until his legal troubles are behind him. That he can't think about "us" with a dark cloud over his head. And while I can understand that there's nothing I can do to help him. And I PROMISE all of you that I'm not going to give him a dime to help. Getting his attorney retainer back was a step in that direction. He wants a NSA relationship (basically just wants to get together for sex) until the cloud over his head is gone. While the sex is awesome and our physical chemistry is off the charts I want more than that. I'm nobody's fuck buddy. I did tell him that if we were to do that he would have to cancel his tinder account - he said he would. I checked on Sunday and sure enough it was still up. Uh huh...didn't think he'd follow through.

My friend and I joined a dating app this weekend - Hinge. Don't really see a good selection but it's been less than 24 hours so I'm going to give it a few weeks and see what happens.

And this will sound horrible but I've been having these crazy revenge fantasies. I could literally blow up his world in so many ways. But my friends are telling me not to do anything because of "bad karma" and he's not worth it. But I can't stop thinking about it. What about the old adage, "revenge is a dish best served cold"? Don't you think he deserves to suffer for putting me through hell and back the last 5 years??

[This message edited by FannyandCat at 7:50 AM, April 12th (Monday)]

You've had a NSA relationship for 5 years. He's always had a "reason" it can't be more. This time,it's legal trouble. Before it was his daughter, then it was the people in his house, etc, etc.

This man is using you. And always has.

Did you have sex with him on Saturday?

.

Finding the poor, hapless soul and swooping down to try to save him because I see his "potential". That's one reason I'm in therapy - to figure out why I do that and then STOP doing it.

Knight in shining armor syndrome. It's much more common in guys, hence the male focused label. It's driven by a lack of self-worth. You subconsciously, or consciously, believe that you don't deserve anyone better, so you shop the damaged produce section and try to work around the damaged parts. Believe in yourself Fanny. You deserve a healthy whole partner not a fixer upper. They are out there.

Hellfire - he's told me I was his girlfriend many times before. The issue always was the amount of time he wanted to spend with me. He was ok with 2-3 days a week and I wanted more. But moreso I wanted to be included - I wanted him to invite me to family dinners and getaways...I wanted him to make an effort to have me in his life. Hell in February we started talking about moving in together.

We celebrated Christmas together with is family and we celebrated Valentine's Day together too. And while you're right that it WAS an NSA relationship for a long time starting around January, 2020 things became more serious.

He told me he loved me on Saturday. Said that the letter meant something to him. But he also said that his aunt and uncle have made no plans to move out of that house and that he was only "looking" on tinder with no desire to meet anyone. He bluntly said, "if you want to know if I'm fucking someone else, I'm not". I bluntly replied that if he is I wouldn't touch him. I also said that if he wanted to have sex with me he had to delete the account and he said he would. I'm going to give it a few days to see if he follows through.

I want to meet someone else. I want to meet someone that will break the spell this guy has over me. And here's the scariest part - I tell myself that 5-6 whatever years from now...when his daughter is older and almost done with high school...when his aunt and uncle are out of the house and their two kids are adults living on their own...when it's just him he will be ready to be the man I want him to be. That's how fucked up I am.

Yes, we had sex on Saturday. He pounced on me like a lion in heat. Both Thursday (my birthday) and Saturday he reached out to me - not the other way around. I did see him earlier in the day on my birthday to give him shit and read the letter but later on that night he texted and called me. I had no intention of seeing him that night. And Saturday he reached out to me in the morning and invited me to see him. It made me think the letter actually did have some effect on him. I haven't heard from him since Saturday though...and I'm not reaching out.

I'm sure he'll contact me again - probably when he's horny. But I have a plan in place - turn the tables and make myself unavailable for a change. Give him the "maybe", "perhaps" or "I'll try" responses he gives me when I ask to see him.

[This message edited by FannyandCat at 9:13 AM, April 12th (Monday)]

But I have a plan in place - turn the tables and make myself unavailable for a change. Give him the "maybe", "perhaps" or "I'll try" responses he gives me when I ask to see him.

FANNY. Stop kidding yourself. What you consider signs of improvement are just him doing the bare minimum to keep you on the hook. Those things are things someone truly worthy of you would have done from the start along with so much more. You deserve better.

Making yourself unavailable is best done but no response at all. Don't let him in the door at all. Move on. Fix yourself so you believe you are worthy of more. Find that more worthy person. I can assure you this guy will never be worthy of you.

New Rules Dua Lipa

Talkin' in my sleep at night, makin' myself crazy

(Out of my mind, out of my mind)

Wrote it down and read it out, hopin' it would save me

(Too many times, too many times)

My love

He makes me feel like nobody else, nobody else

But, my love

He doesn't love me, so I tell myself, I tell myself

One: Don't pick up the phone

You know he's only callin' 'cause he's drunk and alone

Two: Don't let him in

You have to kick him out again

Three: Don't be his friend

You know you're gonna wake up in his bed in the mornin'

And if you're under him, you ain't gettin' over him

I got new rules; I count 'em

I got new rules; I count 'em

I gotta tell them to myself

I got new rules; I count 'em

I gotta tell them to myself

I keep pushin' forwards, but he keeps pullin' me backwards

(Nowhere to turn) No way

(Nowhere to turn) No

Now I'm standin' back from it, I finally see the pattern

(I never learn, I never learn)

But, my love (Love)

He doesn't love me, so I tell myself

I tell myself, I do, I do, I do

You don't really believe he was only "looking" on tinder, do you?

He's a player and he has you right where he wants you. All you are is a hookup to him. It's your life, live it how you like.

However, this forum is to help people get out of infidelity. This thread was started 2 months ago and you are no closer to being out of infidelity than you were 2 months ago.

I would argue that you are now in a worse position. He has no connection to you other than using you for sex when he wants it.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm really not. If this is how you want to live and the type of relationships you want to have, go for it.

If you want to get out of infidelity you are doing it all wrong.

Maybe he's YOUR side piece? If so, I'm not sure what you expect to get out of this forum.

Be honest with yourself. Maybe this is the lifestyle for you. If so, maybe stop resisting it and admit this is how you want to live.

And while I've been mildly successful in turning these men into moderately successful people my current project has been a futile mission and I should have given up ages ago

These so-called projects are what's hurting you. It is not your job to fix anyone, but to make sure that you are healthy for a relationship. As long as you keep with this mindset, you won't ever find a true and meaningful relationship.

I'm nobody's fuck buddy.

Yes, you are. Right now you are his. You allow yourself to be, and I'm pretty sure you know this. As long as you keep letting him "go there" you will be nothing more than this, and he'll ride it (no pun intended) for as long as he can.

My friend and I joined a dating app this weekend - Hinge. Don't really see a good selection but it's been less than 24 hours so I'm going to give it a few weeks and see what happens.

Are you seriously considering dating other people? Have you read the posts about healing yourself first?

[This message edited by newlife03 at 9:47 AM, April 12th (Monday)]

He's NOT a side piece to me. And that's not the lifestyle I want. This is NOT how I want to live!

LOL a good friend told me today to get over this man you have to get under a new one...had to laugh at that.

I'm not a slut - in fact I'm very, very picky about who I sleep with. I actually don't have a lot of sexual experience - maybe that's another reason why I don't want to let go of this loser because I've been sleeping with him for so many years I don't want to sleep with anyone else?

But not contacting him is a good first step - starting no contact AGAIN. And if/when he contacts me I REALLY want to ignore him but that's going to be easier said than done (just being honest here)...

My friend also said my revenge fantasies aren't worth it - a waste of time. He said the best revenge is to show up to his favorite bar with another man if I really want to sting him. And while that may be incredibly immature and underhanded I'm not going to lie - it would feel good. Or maybe he wouldn't give a shit because he doesn't give a shit about me? Either way, I think the best way to get this guy out of my head is to meet someone else who values me and wants to give me his time, attention and affection.

Fanny FANNY FANNY!!!!

Some people just have to learn the hard way, and unfortunately you are 9be of these people.

After EVERYTHING you're still in contact with this guy and still fucking him????

Revenge for what??

Let's be clear, this guy has NOT fucked you over at all.

He has shown you and told you TIME AND AGAIN who and what he is and it didn't matter to you.

When you pick up a rattlesnake, and it bites you, the last thing you can say is "why did you bite me"?

It's in his NATURE (rattlesnake).....it's what he does, and you KNEW this but you thought you were something or someone special who could change the rattlesnake and no way it would bite you.

This guy is the same way and you KNEW it and yet you want to play the victim card that he screwed you over??

Can't you see how FOOLISH this is????

I'm going to be even more blunt with you Fanny because you need to hear this.

In my opinion you are a LIAR!!

You continue to lie to people here on SI saying you're going to do _______ but it's just words because you haven't stayed steadfast in anything you've said you're going to do.

Lying to people here on SI is one thing, no biggie, it doesn't affect anyone here (however it does show that people are wasting their time trying to help you), but LYING to yourself is (at the end of the day) ALL THAT MATTERS!!

Maybe it's time you stop playing this game where you're frustrated that he's not giving you what you want. He can't give it to you BECAUSE FOR THE 100TH TIME HE DOESN'T HAVE IT IN HIM TO DO SO.....HE'S BROKEN....BUT YOU KEEP COMPLAINING (AND HOPING) THAT THE BRAND YOU HAVE IS MAGICALLY GOING TO CHANGE??

It isn't....it's defective and needs to be thrown in the trash but you throw it in the trash but keep pulling it out again and again trying to get it to change and you have the audacity to complain that it isn't working???

Hello!!!!

Even if he took down his Tinder profile do you really think that this would be a way for him to show you he's finally getting it (that he's changing) and by doing this it's a way to show you he cares for you?

He's STILL a rattlesnake and always will be!!

As I said some people can only learn the hard way. You've been shown that he is who is, but there's a better path for you, and this path starts with making a decision and than having the courage to seek out help and put in the hard work to find out why you are the way you are and STICK at it. Be committed to it!!

In order for anything to change in the initial stages of working on yourself there's ONE CRITICAL thing that you NEED to do (and if you can't do this ONE thing) you are just WASTING YOUR TIME.

What is that one thing???

To stay NO CONTACT with this guy and you can't even do this one thing.

You know why?

Because in your mind you put more importance in having good sex (getting fucked real good) and it's better than facing your demons and hopefully figuring out why you do the things you do so that "maybe" you might get to a place where you do have boundaries, you do have self respect, you don't pick and stay with rattlesnakes, you could have the family you want, you have integrity and value yourself and don't need to get validation from anyone else and so many other positive things you could gain but instead you throw it all away because you're letting fear and laziness and lack of courage take over and why???

To be fucked real good by a rattlesnake??

Fanny is this what you want because your actions (that you've written here on SI) show that it is.

Nobody here can help you.

They can throw some words around and show you that we care but at the end if the day only YOU can make changes in you.

I am NOT judging you Fanny.

I'm trying to show you that you have holes everywhere and anything that anybody tries to pour into you goes in and just spills out of these countless holes.

Aren't you tired of going around and around and around on a dysfunctional merry-go-round and PISSING AWAY your life by not having the courage to get off it at some point and trying to help yourself?

Are you a helpless cause Fanny?

Are you worth the great things you're seeking?

Are you a coward to not face the things you need to face?

Is getting fucked really good what drives you?

Only you can answer these questions.

At some point Fanny people are going to tire of you and to stop wasting their time trying to help you Because they're going to see it just goes in one ear and out the other and if you don't care why should they and this (in time) will include your friends and people that love you.

There is another solution to this.

Stop complaining about this guy.

Accept him for who he is.

He's a guy who fucks you good and thus this means good "chemistry".

However he can't give you anything more meaningful and the types of things that healthy and committed relationships are built on but oh well....it is what it is...and at least you're having good sex a few times a week.