SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Agreed.

Like any investment, especially one you are putting a lot of capital into, you should do as much due diligence as possible.

Too many stories on here of BS getting blindsided later. But by then the sunk cost fallacy kicks in and many just settle for a subpar marriage a d life.

Just do the poly. She is offering it. What is the downside?

I agree. Do the poly. Parking lot confessions are notorious from many "I'll do a poly, have nothing to hide" WS's.

I don't know, I feel like maybe I am making this bigger issue than it is. And maybe it's time to move on. We went through her timeline again this morning and her story is still the same,

nothing new. I don't want to keep going through ot again and again. She swears on our children that she didn't tell me because she didn't want me to get into trouble, she doesn't care about him, at all. The moment this blew up she threw him under a bus without a second thought. When I told her I will keep ruining his life until I feel I am done with him she only asked me to not do anything illegal and/or stupid and to think of girls. I smell blood but I am not stupid, I would never do anything that might put me in a danger. But there are still ways how to deal damage without making my hands dirty. But I will let it go soon. It's not healthy.

As for the polygraph - We searched online and it looks like every place that offers it (not many) is closed now, at least for next few weeks due to a lockdown. But she sent few emails asking for more info and to set a date. She said she will do it if I want her to. Which is a good sign, I guess. She never had a problem with a polygraph, it is me who doesn't want it. I explained why in my earlier posts.

I went for a walk later and called SH's ex to ask her if she knows more about their encounter. She didn't want to talk much, said she doesn't want to go back it. Undertandable. But she told me SH moved away to a different city 2h away few weeks back. I checked his LI profile and he works at a new position in a bank where I have a few friends. Unfortunatelly for him, I have worked for almosty every bank in this country and I am very friendly guy who likes to meet people. Time to ruin his new job opportunity again I guess.

I don't know. I had felt like I took my life back again, and now I just feel like shit. And it's not nice. I don't undertand how people can do this to somebody they are supposed to love and protect.

When's the divorce final?

Outside of this latest new info everything else going well?

How was this told? Did it stumble out as part of a conversation or did she directly confess it? Has she discussed this in IC? Recently?

Are you guys in MC yet? Still?

2nd base a deal breaker for you? Kind of thought we were already there with the hand up skirt.

We know what OM was after and he was going to keep pushing her boundaries.

Mr. F. It may be the time to have a break from here. Maybe start a new post on the Rec forum and post only yours and your wife's progress. People will ask questions that will get your mind ticking over and going backwards.

You are clear that you know all that there is to know and you should now ignore the comments of "there's always more" as this is stopping you from following the path you clearly want to take, the path to rebuilding a new life together.

I have followed your story from the beginning and I am amazed at how you have handled this and your wife. Time for you both to follow your new path together and see where it goes.

Just my twopenceworth.

Good luck.

I don't know, I feel like maybe I am making this bigger issue than it is. And maybe it's time to move on. We went through her timeline again this morning and her story is still the same,

nothing new. I don't want to keep going through ot again and again. She swears on our children that she didn't tell me because she didn't want me to get into trouble, she doesn't care about him, at all. The moment this blew up she threw him under a bus without a second thought. When I told her I will keep ruining his life until I feel I am done with him she only asked me to not do anything illegal and/or stupid and to think of girls. I smell blood but I am not stupid, I would never do anything that might put me in a danger. But there are still ways how to deal damage without making my hands dirty. But I will let it go soon. It's not healthy.

Of course you don't want to keep going back through it. No one does. If you're satisfied with the timeline, put it aside. But just because you don't want to doesn't mean you're not going to think about it over and over again even without looking at the timeline.

Your brain is still processing the trauma and it does that by replaying the event and analyzing it from every different perspective. Right now, you don't really have a baseline of truth to fall back on. You think you might but there's still some "what ifs" and this new detail does not help with that. If she takes the polygraph and passes, you can fall back on that and have some peace of mind when your brain goes back over it.

You don't have to make her do it but just know that it's early and no matter how much you want to be done with it, that's just not how it works. BSes think about it over and over again for years especially if there's any question about if they got the truth. We have people post here 20 years later who still wonder. But I suppose your WW would take one 20 years from now too if you still had questions.

When's the divorce final?

In May. Waiting for a court date, nobody knows if we will have to go in front of a judge in person. Should not take more then 1 court session

Outside of this latest new info everything else going well?

You can say that. We are doing well, sometimes we slip back into our old dynamic but we make it work. I changed a lot in my attitude towards life in general. I used to be kind of a "whatever guy", now I make decisions. I mean the little ones like what's for dinner and I actively make plans for family. My W says she likes this a lot. She told me few days back my new approach makes her "hot". So absolutely no touble there, besides we agreed on me telling her when and where after I shot her down a few times because I was in a bad mood due to some triggers. Looks like she likes me leading more than I thought.

How was this told? Did it stumble out as part of a conversation or did she directly confess it?

It was after our discussion about openess amd honesty (the stalker talk). She came a few minutes later while I was cleaning kitchen and said she needs to tell me something and asked me to promis not to do anything stupid. And then dropped this. So yes, she directly confessed.

Has she discussed this in IC?

Not that I know of.

Are you guys in MC yet? Still?

We are not. She's in IC, I dropped out of IC (same counselor) on your advice here on SI. Got a new IC starting in 3 weeks. No MC, but we might be at a point where we might use it. Good point

2nd base a deal breaker for you? Kind of thought we were already there with the hand up skirt.

Define 2nd base, but yeah. I am surprised I hadn't left after I was told about that session in his car.

Thank you, iggyb. I come here when I feel like I need advice or be heard out. Or just vent. I might come and go when I feel like it. I will think about starting a new topic but for now I feel ok continuing this thread if that's ok.

I haven’t posted much on your thread because I read such conflicting responses from you. In some you are divorcing, in some you are reconciling… At least the actions and expectations indicate either D or R.

I get it that there can be questions and conflicts and even that you change your course. I truly get it. But irrespective of if you are D or R I also don’t see you aiming for the REAL goal and that is to get out of infidelity.

I personally think you are both expecting and allowing your WW too much power. Like you don’t negotiate about the friend she dropped, it’s not really an option. Her decision based on her free will should be a pellet that you drop into the scales of what path gets you out of infidelity: Right bowl on the scale = divorce, left bowl = reconciliation. At some point you tally the scales and base your choice on which one is heavier.

The reason I post now is your last comment about maybe this not being so serious, based on how easily she dropped the OM…

Well… Imagine this scenario: Imagine you are at a store and want to buy bread. You realize you don’t have any cash on you because you forgot your stuffed wallet at home. What would you do? I’m hoping you would simply get out, drive home and get your wallet. Or maybe try asking someone to loan you five bucks. Or maybe ask the clerk if you can drop by tomorrow to pay… Whatever. But I’m hoping your last resort would be to stick the loaf under your jacket and walk out.

That’s what your wife did. She had a problem and she solved it using the wrong method. She got caught. She might try to make little of it since the value of what she stole is low.

You are falling for her excuses: Her shoplifting isn’t really that serious because it was only a loaf of bread. The REAL issue is that she stole. That she had low enough qualms about stealing that she took the loaf and stuck it in her purse and walked out. She wasn’t starving, she wasn’t broke. She simply didn’t have what she needed with her at the store.

The speed of her dropping the OM IMHO indicates she broke her vows for very shallow and easy reasons. The same reasons she thought stealing a loaf wouldn’t count because it’s so cheap. Heck… I would probably better understand her reasons for stealing if she grabbed a full stack of cash… Instead, she broke her vows for something she now claims wasn’t really anything… a loaf of emotional bread… I would actually rather have preferred if she had shared that she thought OM was special…

Really should have defined that as that's definitely a usa baseball thing. 2nd base is touching over clothing. 3rd is touching under clothing. Home run is sex.

I think it's good this was a thoughtful confession. I'm not sure her reasoning for not disclosing earlier is 100% correct. That might have been part of the reason, but fear of losing you because of it is likely a piece also. There's never just one reason behind actions. It usually a combination. She did confess. That she is willing to do the polygraph seems like this may be the last trickle or at least close to it.

MC isn't recommended early, but you seem to be getting to the point we're it may be useful to help work through issues like this. It's just not good to dive right in before IC

MrFlibble:

I get it. You want to save your family. You want to reconcile. From the story as told, you are not in the same world of absolute horror as so many others.

But the point I have been making for weeks now is you need to make your decision to reconcile with the actual truth! Or, as I predicted, you will be subject to the emotional abuse of trickle truth and you will find yourself with the same person who cheated on you, just with her acting contrite for a while.

***

LET'S GET A FEW THINGS IN ORDER:

1) Cheaters lie to protect themselves and/or to protect their affair partners. You should tell her to stop claiming she lied to protect you. She did not lie to protect you, full stop.

2) She told you about "Him grabbing her hand to put on his dick" because she was upset that another woman was pursuing you? And that was weeks after she told you that you knew everything, is that correct? I wonder what interesting information nugget you'll learn the next time she is mad, scared, hurt, or upset?

3) The way she has told you the car story is bullshit, you really need to look at it more carefully:

- Originally, she told you she went in the car, I guess with the intent that it was just going to be kissing like a pre-teen makeout session, but then, she left the car she willingly entered with him after he unexpectedly stuck his hand up her skirt.

- Now she is telling you she cut off the makeout session when he unexpectedly grabbed her hand and put it on his dick.

- This is a contradiction.

NOW LOOK AT IT CLOSELY:

Her story makes it sound like he "forced" everything and she did nothing. Typical cheater bullshit where they are not responsible for all the things they did, it all just happened from external forces!

She told you she left the car because of the hand up the skirt and because of the hand on the dick.

Did these things happen simultaneously? He put his hands up her skirt AND grabbed her hand to put it on his dick at the same time? That's bullshit.

What kind of physical contortion has to happen for that to work? Either she was okay with one act then not the other, or, the way I lean, is the entire story (as told) is fiction and she is trying to tell it in a way that makes it palatable to you.

Further, I've put my hand up a skirt or two. Unless the skirt that she wore to work was a miniskirt, there is a process of lifting the skirt, which she probably has to help enable because they are sitting in a car and she is sitting on the skirt. Unless he is 7 feet tall and can reach under her skirt and then back up to her private area while it is down. Also, legs need to be spread apart.

My point is she was enabling whatever acts happened in that car. Grownups don't get in a car or some other private place together to kiss and put their hands on each other's hips. Nope.

***

HERE IS A STORY THAT COULD BE TRUE:

They got in the car, his hands went anywhere they wanted to with her and she was just fine with it, and she rubbed and touched him in all the places to get him excited. When he tried to fuck her, she chickened out (maybe).

***

You're basing your beliefs and decisions on a few data points: Some text messages, your wife's words, and a couple of other things I don't recall.

What you should understand from your wife's "reveal" is there is a whole world of interactions and events that you have no idea about.

You should also understand that your wife does not intend to tell you the whole story of those interactions and events. And whatever she does tell you, she will color it to make herself look like she was passive and not an active partner in this betrayal activity.

If you're okay with this uncertainty, and are able to withstand the sure-to-come further trickle truth, then proceed as you have.

But again, you should make your decisions, especially to reconcile, based on as much truth as possible.

And MrFlibble, you're still viewing everything your wife tells you through husbandly love and trust-colored glasses.

Step away and analyze this as though it was your brother telling you all of this about his wife. You would not believe the story as she has told it.

***

Some people will probably attack me and say that I am burning the witch or some such bullshit. But I am simply telling you: Get the truth, make your decisions based on the truth.

This is to protect you from further and repeated damage to your heart.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 12:20 PM, February 28th (Sunday)]

Sorry. One last thing:

- Schedule the polygraph

- Ask her every question you can think of before hand and make her write down the answers.

- Follow through on the polygraph.

I predict you will learn more and that stories will change.

100% everything Faithfulman said.

Mr Fibble, if you are committed to the D, as you said you are, I have no problems with what she is saying or how you are currently interpreting and assimilating or struggling with what she is saying. One the D is done, as you continue to traverse the R process - if you still choose to - the weight of it all is just less. Oh, it will still be difficult and you will still hurt and you will still have doubts. But traversing R with a person who is a proven liar is not as heavy a lift when the legal bondage is gone.

D does NOT inherently mean an end to a relationship nor does it require it. By law and definition, it only means the end to the legal entanglement of the relationship. After D, and some period of working on R, if it all works out, $50 and a couple of hours and you can be M again. However, if after working on R, you find you are still in too much pain or there is too much "new" that you find out, there is no D process to add to your trauma.

Do what you will in the way you need to do it, either way. If you pull back on D, it is up to you. As has been suggested, keep eyes wide open - you are dealing with someone that has proven that lying is not a boundary and keeping you is the prime objective.

[This message edited by DIFM at 2:06 PM, February 28th, 2021 (Sunday)]

I wonder if the baseball reference is just American slang.

First base = kissing/making out

Second base = groping/feeling each other up either over or under clothing.

Third base = Playing with the others genitalia, either with your hands or orally

Homerun = penetrative sex

Bigger, I can understand why you might be confused. The ultimate goal, or my wish if you will, is to stay together. My W asked me what are my conditions are and I told her I want to divorce and to start over. You can read my older posts, I talk about reason and whys there.

I personally think you are both expecting and allowing your WW too much power. Like you don’t negotiate about the friend she dropped, it’s not really an option

That's something I am struggling with. I know that if I want our R to be successful I mustn't be passive. But what I find challenging is to find a line between being in charge and being oppresing. The last thing I want to create is an imbalance of power.

..Instead, she broke her vows for something she now claims wasn’t really anything

But that's something she came to later. At first SH was a great guy, her friend and all that.. so yeah, she thought he was special. And she must be great if such a guy pays her attention right? It changed after it all blew up, the fog lifted in a matter of maybe week or two. I bet especially after I told her he had four other interests. She told me later she felt disgusted she fell for such a jerk.

faithfulman, great post. Thank you. I will reply tomorrow to your questions

My W asked me what are my conditions are and I told her I want to divorce and to start over.

I am clearly projecting here, but as someone who did exactly what you are about to do, and for the same reason you are doing it, you have my full support.

faithfulman, thank you again for your great post.

You are right about me wanting to save my family, but for this to work I can't do this alone. And my wife is doing a lot too, but to be frank I am still not sure if it's enough. And I don't mean she could do more, just that I am still not sure I can get over it after all. That's one of my (and my wife's) biggest fear, that I will realize few year down the road that I can't do this anymore. We are still dealing with this, hope IC will help.

As you said, I am one of those "lucky" ones. Yes, there is some TT, but nothing big and major was revealed since she told me the "whole" story at the beginning in November. Every new bits I have learned in last 2 or 3 months was something minor, some new detail of what I already knew. I honestly believe if she was setting grounds for something big I would already know. Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking. I like your voice of reason on this.

1) Cheaters lie to protect themselves and/or to protect their affair partners. You should tell her to stop claiming she lied to protect you. She did not lie to protect you, full stop.

She lied at first to keep the A going (remember how she dismissed my concerns and called me controlling), then she lied to cover her ass and manipulate, then to keep me from divorcing her out of fear, then to minimalize and damage control. That she admits now. But I believe her now, and I guess I get why she didn't tell me then. She knows it would not end up well

2) She told you about "Him grabbing her hand to put on his dick" because she was upset that another woman was pursuing you? And that was weeks after she told you that you knew everything, is that correct? I wonder what interesting information nugget you'll learn the next time she is mad, scared, hurt, or upset?

No, she told me because she knows how much of a dealbreaker keeping things from each other really is. So she told me in order to be open and honest. It has nothing to do with me being pursued by some other woman. I don't know what else she keeps from me, but I don't think it's something huge like actually having sex or any kind of sexual act besides that car encounter.

As for that car story.. yeah it makes me sick.

The story as told by her was this

SH offered her car ride home, she accepted, he made his move on her, they kissed for a few minutes, some touching obviously above waist, he slide his hand under her skirt, she put his hand away and he tried to put it on his dick. She had "wtf am I doing" moment and swiftly left.

That narrative that she was a victim of a predator.. I didn't buy at all. Yes, he is a sleazbag who know how to play this but she was very willing participant. I wish I could post some of their messages here, they explain a lot of their dynamics.

What you should understand from your wife's "reveal" is there is a whole world of interactions and events that you have no idea about.

Yeah, absolutely. The fucker took his sweet time. I believe partly because he had his other conquest to take care of him. Otherwise he would be more aggresively pushing her and she would cave in, no doubt. There were lunch dates, coffee breaks, car rides. Lots of back and forth, weeks of no contact and weeks when they exchanged 100s of texts. I don't have an access to their skype messages, but she told me most of their contact was through texts. She obviously doesn't remember every time they spoke or had any kind of interaction, but her timeline is extensive. I think, again THINK, I have a pretty decent picture of how things progressed. Had i not have those messages I would probably not trust a word out of her mouth.

You should also understand that your wife does not intend to tell you the whole story of those interactions and events. And whatever she does tell you, she will color it to make herself look like she was passive and not an active partner in this betrayal activity.

That is only partialy true. It took her a while, but she understands how important is to be upfront about this. I anything kills our relationship

And MrFlibble, you're still viewing everything your wife tells you through husbandly love and trust-colored glasses.

Trust me, all that is gone. I doubt everything she tells me. I just put it in perspective of what I know about her character and what I have (texts, truthful confessions). Those glasses fell off sometime last autmn

Step away and analyze this as though it was your brother telling you all of this about his wife. You would not believe the story as she has told it.

If my brother was telling me this, I would absolutely tell him she is lying and that she had been screwing him all the time. I know, I know.. But again. The texts. Does any of you believe that if they had been screwing for months they would not discuss it? Ther is NOTHING to support that in those texts, nothing. Most of it is honestly just boring chitchat

Some people will probably attack me and say that I am burning the witch or some such bullshit. But I am simply telling you: Get the truth, make your decisions based on the truth.

I don't get why would anyone attack you for helping me. I NEED to hear other people's advice and input. All this is very confusing and you people here help me to find my way

Wow, I have just read LifeDestroyer's thread. I can't believe somebody can be so cruel. She even scheduled a polygraph fully knowing she is lying and she won't pass. I don't get it, I really don't. I don't understand how people can be so vile. I can see a lot of similarities between her and my wife which makes me anxious. I don't know what I would do if there is really more to uncover

It's amazing how much a person can lie, and how warped their thinking can be when they get involved in an affair.

If there is a positive, I don't know if you read all of LifeDestroyer's threads, but it was her husband that first came here with their story. Over time, even though they have divorced, LifeDestroyer has shown to be a someone that has found her moral footings again, and is viewed by many members here as a remorseful wayward who still tries to pay it forward to new, wrong-thinking waywards. Many members in the Wayward Forum run when they start getting hit hard with doses of reality from betrayed and wayward alike, but she faced the criticisms, and bettered herself from it.

Could her marriage have been salvaged if she was honest after discovery? We'll never know, but her lying right up to and through the polygraph just shows how screwed up someone's thinking can be....especially when they are trying to cover their ass.