SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There is much more to Lifedestroyer's story than what can actually be covered here. You would also need to read her husband's thread to get a complete picture and know that their marriage is actually a MadHatter. I think they both have working on improving their inner demons. In some ways I did want them to make it.

End of my t/j.

Mr. Fibbles, you have to do what you feel like you need for healing and moving on. I wish you both the best no matter what the outcome may be.

[This message edited by jadedangel at 8:23 AM, March 1st (Monday)]

As you said, I am one of those "lucky" ones.

I don't think we know that yet.

Yes, there is some TT, but nothing big and major was revealed since she told me the "whole" story at the beginning in November. Every new bits I have learned in last 2 or 3 months was something minor, some new detail of what I already knew. I honestly believe if she was setting grounds for something big I would already know. Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking. I like your voice of reason on this.

Trickle Truth is not always some huge lie. It's often "death by a thousand cuts".

That doesn't mean there aren't bigger cuts lurking out there. Get the truth or face more cuts. Maybe some smaller, maybe some larger.

She lied at first to keep the A going (remember how she dismissed my concerns and called me controlling), then she lied to cover her ass and manipulate, then to keep me from divorcing her out of fear, then to minimalize and damage control. That she admits now. But I believe her now, and I guess I get why she didn't tell me then. She knows it would not end up well

The part I bolded above misses the point. Yes, "she had a reason" for not telling you: Because you would be mad/upset.

This is literally the same reasoning for lying of every cheater who exists. It's the same reason children lie, and the same reason shoplifters lie. They knew they did something wrong and are trying to avoid trouble.

Maybe it's hard to tell tone from forum posts, but you seem to be accepting of this.

***

Maybe you can help me figure out these two things you wrote:

No, she told me because she knows how much of a dealbreaker keeping things from each other really is. So she told me in order to be open and honest. It has nothing to do with me being pursued by some other woman. I don't know what else she keeps from me, but I don't think it's something huge like actually having sex or any kind of sexual act besides that car encounter.

But I know why she told me now, it's because of the stalker.

Again, both of these things cannot be true at the same time.

***

Moving along:

As for that car story.. yeah it makes me sick.

The story as told by her was this

SH offered her car ride home, she accepted, he made his move on her, they kissed for a few minutes, some touching obviously above waist, he slide his hand under her skirt, she put his hand away and he tried to put it on his dick. She had "wtf am I doing" moment and swiftly left.

That narrative that she was a victim of a predator.. I didn't buy at all. Yes, he is a sleazbag who know how to play this but she was very willing participant. I wish I could post some of their messages here, they explain a lot of their dynamics.

yeah, that's a bullshit story. I guess the way she told it to you: "He did this..." and "He did that..."

Let me re-iterate, your wife is not a rag doll. His hand can't get up her skirt unless she is providing access. He cannot just "put her hand on this dick".

I am not sure you are not breaking this down into step-by-step reality. Why don't you just try re-enacting it? Get in a car and see what it takes to slide your hand up her skirt, etc.?

You'll see that the story - as recounted here - is not true.

That is only partialy true. It took her a while, but she understands how important is to be upfront about this. I anything kills our relationship

But she is still dropping trickle-truth bombs on you.

Trust me, all that is gone. I doubt everything she tells me. I just put it in perspective of what I know about her character and what I have (texts, truthful confessions). Those glasses fell off sometime last autmn

I'm sorry, but I disagree. You're not getting truthful confessions. You're getting partial confessions, that she is spinning.

By the way, all that is standard cheater behavior. But why do you seem so accepting of it, at least on this forum?

If my brother was telling me this, I would absolutely tell him she is lying and that she had been screwing him all the time. I know, I know.. But again. The texts. Does any of you believe that if they had been screwing for months they would not discuss it? Ther is NOTHING to support that in those texts, nothing. Most of it is honestly just boring chitchat

Maybe or maybe not. I wouldn't live and die by her text messages. That's one data point.

You don't know what you don't know. For example, she knew that something happened with his dick in the car, but somehow left that out of her "truthful confession".

***

Good luck. I still think you need to hold her completely accountable, but I feel she is able to pull your heart strings, and you do it to yourself as well. Your wants overrule your logic. It happened to basically all of us!

By the way, I was active on the LifeDestroyer thread. It was very similar. I told her that what she was saying simply could not be true. It made no sense, that's not how adults who are cheating behave. It went on for weeks and weeks. LOt's of people trying to defend her and shut down team "tell the whole truth."

You know what finally pried the truth out of her? A polygraph.

jadedangel can you post link to Lifedestroyer's husband thread? I didn't know about that

Trickle Truth is not always some huge lie. It's often "death by a thousand cuts"

Wow, thats very on spot. That's exactly how I feel after her last bit of the car story.

Maybe it's hard to tell tone from forum posts, but you seem to be accepting of this.

No, I am not accepting it. I just try to get her point of view, and to find out if it realy does make sense or if my bullshit radar picks up.

Maybe you can help me figure out these two things you wrote:

No, she told me because she knows how much of a dealbreaker keeping things from each other really is. So she told me in order to be open and honest. It has nothing to do with me being pursued by some other woman. I don't know what else she keeps from me, but I don't think it's something huge like actually having sex or any kind of sexual act besides that car encounter.

But I know why she told me now, it's because of the stalker.

Again, both of these things cannot be true at the same time.

Yeah sorry, my bad. What I meant was that her new confession was a result of our talk about importance of honesty. Not a result of some other chick going after me (BTW I got 23 emails from her, it's getting ridiculous)

I feel like we are going in circles about that car session. She is not a rag doll, she was willing and active participant, I never said the opposite. She admits she kissed back and obviously hands above waist. He just tried to push for more and was shot down. I don't think it's that hard to believe.

Sorry if that was rude but I am exhausted and overall not doing very well. My W is the same, I know she barely slept last night. It's just that I thought we made some progress and now I feel like we are back at the beginning.

Also, we are in another full lockdown, everything is closed (pre-schools) too, so having 2 small kids at home while trying to do some work (both of us) is crazy.

I am thinking about that polygraph, but we heard from one place we emailed and they are closed until further notice and the others I bet will be too. So we are stuck

I feel like we are going in circles about that car session. She is not a rag doll, she was willing and active participant, I never said the opposite. She admits she kissed back and obviously hands above waist. He just tried to push for more and was shot down. I don't think it's that hard to believe.

Sorry if that was rude but I am exhausted and overall not doing very well. My W is the same, I know she barely slept last night. It's just that I thought we made some progress and now I feel like we are back at the beginning.

You're not being rude. And it is very normal for a betrayed spouse to "snap" when they are talking about this stuff, especially with someone hammering at a certain detail, like I am. It fucking sucks.

***

My point is, and correct me if I am wrong, but I am going off what what you told us that she told you, that she has given you a story, about when she knew it "had gone too far for her" with a very specific detail of when she "cut off the session", and both of these cannot be true simultaneously:

1) Story 1: She stopped the session in the car because he put his hand up her skirt.

2) Story 2: She stopped the session in the car because he put her hand on his dick.

Assuming she truly cut off the session as she says she did, then one of these items was not the dealbreaker. And who knows what else was not a dealbreaker? Get the whole story or face learning it in pieces.

***

Story changes are an insidious form of trickle truth, which, as you have mentioned send you "back at the beginning".

I advise you not to glaze over these kinds of details, because they are indicative of a pattern of evasion and truth-spinning that does not bode well for reconciliation.

I also advice you to get her to write the story down in detail, then when the story changes, she cannot tell you that you misheard, or she doesn't remember saying that, etc.

For example, make sure she tells you how they were "together" in the car. Next to each other? Her straddling? Lying next to each other? etc. Trust me, this is the kind of shit cheaters leave out because they know it shows how fucked up they have been.

It's excruciating and it hurts terribly.

First get the overarching timeline then dig deep on the specifics. As you have mentioned there were a bunch of car rides...

***

I am glad you are considering the polygraph. I know it is against all of your principles. Every single person who has gone down the polygraph road has felt the same way.

Most of us also had the principle of "If my spouse cheats, it is over."

The lockdown which makes the polygraph not possible for a while is okay. Meanwhile, you get the whole story no details left out, on paper.

Tell her if the story changes it destroys what you are trying to rebuild.

Make sure she knows it will be verified against a polygraph, that way she'll be a bit more truthful. As polygraph time comes, don't be surprised at how that jogs one's memory.

Be prepared for freakouts.

Try and get some rest, sorry for the hammering, I'll let you be for a while.

Mr. Flibble, I sent you a PM with the info.

Now might be a good time to circle back to some of the advice you got initially. I'm assuming now that you've gotten a painful dose of trickle truth, you won't be naive enough to believe there can't/won't be anymore.

If you simply accept this new revelation and "move on," you'll be making an investment and getting your hopes up with no real underlying thesis or information. Get the polygraph, decide *beforehand* what your dealbreakers are if it isn't squeaky clean, and then act accordingly based on the results.

If you start a cycle of yo-yoing between being on the outs and faux happiness from rug-sweeping, you're going to be in for a really shitty time.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 5:52 PM, March 1st (Monday)]

"At first SH was a great guy, her friend and all that.. so yeah, she thought he was special. And she must be great if such a guy pays her attention right? It changed after it all blew up, the fog lifted in a matter of maybe week or two. I bet especially after I told her he had four other interests. She told me later she felt disgusted she fell for such a jerk".

Mr. F: doesn't this bother you a bit on it's own? I mean, what if SH was truly a great guy, and only interested in your wife? Would she feel less bad about what happened?

Doesn't seem right....

Hey Mr. Fibble.

I've been following your thread, and on the whole, I think you have more of a shot than most of us did at getting through R in the end. That being said, most of us thought our situations were different, that we were somehow special. Funny thing, we weren't. The law of averages being what it is your narrative should be average. Unfortunately, that means that there is probably more. From reading your posts, I sense some conflict, probably stemming from the disconnect between your conscious and subconscious. I've been there, trying desperately to quiet my subconscious mind because I did not want things to be true. Turns out they were.

Funny thing about the "he was a predator and took advantage of me 8n a vulnerable state" defense. It's actually bullshit and only works on a BS actively looking for a way to believe the comfortable lie.

You see, with the advent of equal rights, a perdon cannot be a modern and empowered, woman aaaaaaannnnnd a damsel in distress simultaneously. To allow for the latter is to remove all agency from your WW. Would you invoke the "I was vulnerable and she forced me to screw" defense for yourself?

Push for the poly. My gut is telling me there is more. It may not be horrible, but there is more.

It's just that I thought we made some progress and now I feel like we are back at the beginning.

Unfortunately that's what TT does. It resets your healing clock.

I am thinking about that polygraph, but we heard from one place we emailed and they are closed until further notice and the others I bet will be too. So we are stuck

Many posters here have managed to get polygraphs during the pandemic. Don't just assume and give up. Keep checking. Get dates for when they will be available again. Put a little more effort into it before you decide to drop it.

Your WW's story has big differences from LifeDestroyer. LD's story was too weak to be believed by anyone and she hadn't any proof to corroborate what she said. She knew that her husband had a thread on SI and she tried to use SI to manipulate him. She wrote here everything her husband would like to hear, as if she were writing to tell her story and take opinions. Ethically, spouses supposedly don't read each other's threads. Come on, what world do we live in? That's why I think that SI should stay as safe haven and and WS' shouldn't know this site.

As you told us, mostly your wife has shown that she is a strong candidate for R by her behavior. But more than that, what makes me think there is hope for you is the concrete evidence you have.

Your WW's big difference from LifeDestroyer is the objective proofs. You have the texts between them before DDay which shows there is not sexual intercourse. This is very likely to be true if they didn't perfectly planned a lie in case of being busted long before.

The reason I always suggest poly is because, first, as you saw in the last incident, there may be other hiding things except sexual intercourse. Second, I do not know the text dates and exact words in the content, but if there is a significant difference between DDay and the text dates and they continued to meet at that time, something might have happened that was not included in the texts at that time, or the words may be interpreted differently.

These are all possibilities, some of them may appear strong and some may appear weak. If these are getting in your head somehow and the way to be sure is poly, then you should take it.

I understand very well the reason for your WW's last confession. When you see what I wrote in another thread on the General forum last week, you will understand why.

I haven't any example about cheating but have about lying. I had some online friends, we had been very sincere in time but we had not met face to face. I was speaking harshly about liars at a time when a great liar turned my life upside down. And many of the friends with whom I gave these conversations were bothered by what I said and confessed their lies.

Both are bad but there is a difference between lying and not telling the whole truth. Lying is strictly deliberate, but not telling the whole truth isn't always like that. Things that are important to us may be unimportant to others, and they may neglect things when they tell us. So when you have such a situation with your WW, don't take it as if she's lying, first see if it is reasonable and whether she has any interest in it.

Each case is evaluated on its own terms. But some members comment with memorized sentences without considering these terms. I'don't know English version but there is a saying that "If someone has a hammer in hand, sees everything as a nail."

This is an infidelity forum and it may take a lot of hammering here, but not every situation requires it. It is wrong to make precise judgments. Even if you look at the posts in your thread only, you can see examples of them. As for me, I cannot make any definitive judgments about your WW, I just try to make logical comments based on the information you give us and experiences and observations I have in life.

I think you have coped well with it so far, and it will be so from now on.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 9:56 PM, March 1st (Monday)]

My point is, and correct me if I am wrong, but I am going off what what you told us that she told you, that she has given you a story, about when she knew it "had gone too far for her" with a very specific detail of when she "cut off the session", and both of these cannot be true simultaneously:

1) Story 1: She stopped the session in the car because he put his hand up her skirt.

2) Story 2: She stopped the session in the car because he put her hand on his dick.

Assuming she truly cut off the session as she says she did, then one of these items was not the dealbreaker. And who knows what else was not a dealbreaker? Get the whole story or face learning it in pieces.

She lied. Or didn't tell me everything at first if you want to be technical. Yes, originally she told me he put his hand under her skirt and she left. That's not what hapenned.

To make it short, SH offered her a ride home and she accepted because it was raining that day. That I confirmed because I know the exact day this hapenned. When they got in his car they just talked for a few moments about work, he started complimenting her and then leaned over and kissed her. She kissed him back. They made-out for a few minutes, hands wandering, his on her leg and then he put his hand under her skirt. She didn't want that so she put his hand away and they stoped kissing and then he took her wrist and put it on his dick telling her something along the lines of how hard she makes him . Then she left and took a tram home.

From what I was told it wasn't exactly planned as a cheating session (from my W's side, I bet he just wanted to get her alone). He drove her home like six or seven times during those few months they were meeting at office, often with one other female coworker who lives on the way.

Again, I have no other way how to prove this is true other than those messages where they talk about what happened and he apologized for pushing her. Do I believe nothing hapenned during those other car rides? Probably not. I know he offered her a stop at a hotel once and she told him to back off. I also have trouble understanding how is it even remotely possible there were no other physical meetings in between those two in May and August. That the time when she was acting disconnected and weird, short tempered and simply not like the woman I know. But there were also whole weeks with no messages exchanged and W told me it was just like that, they didn't talk or meet for coffee or lunch for two weeks and then it restarted once again. Back and forth, I have mentioned before this is apparently his MO.

As for the polygraph, I am considering it. I originally thought that if she offers and has no problem with it I should take it as a sign she is telling the truth, but after reading Lifedestroyer's thread I am starting to have a lots of doubts. And I have confirmed everything is closed at least for next 3 to 4 weeks, so it looks like I am stuck for a month or two. We spoke again yesterday, went over her timeline again and she is still adamant that's all, two meetings and I know everything (which "you know everything now" is it? Third?). I am starting to feel a growing resentment from both of us, because I think we both feel stuck and going in circles. She knows it's her fault, and she hates herself for it, it's obvious from how she has been acting these last few days. She know she put us back at start. But I can't help not to feel like I am making this a bigger issue than it needs to be.

But I understand your point faithfulman. How can I heal and forgive if I don't know what for is the forgivness asked

jadedangelThank you for PM, I will read it today. How brutal is it? Not sure if it's a good idea to read other threads here since it makes me so angry sometimes.

Dignitas that's very true, my thoughts exactly.

Mr. F: doesn't this bother you a bit on it's own? I mean, what if SH was truly a great guy, and only interested in your wife? Would she feel less bad about what happened?

Well, interesting point. I don't know. Him being what he is, SH, is what made the fog lift unbelievably fast. Her rose colored glasses fell righ off. If she thought there was a future with him and wanted to left me for him I would go nuclear on both of them and helped her pack her bags and drop them at his house. I never planned to do the pick-me dance. I think in that case the right course of action is a swift and decisive serving of divorce papers and full and complete 180. It sounds rough, but after all this I feel prepeared for anything when it comes to my W. Do I want to live my life without her in it? I don't. Would I be able to make it? Absolutely. I feel like a lot of that codependecy I felt at the biginning is gone. I would do well on my own. And my W knows it.

Justsomeguy Yeah, that feeling of being special, of we are not that couple is so strange. I always remember that qoute "You are just as special as everybody else". You are right that I am conflicted, I always thought and said any kind of cheating is a dealbreaker. And look where I am now. There are still a brief moments when I tell myself "she would not do that, that's not her". Well.. look at that. She did it. She told me way back that when this was happening she felt like it wasn't really her who got to his car, who went to a lunch date with him, who texted him while in bed with me. But it was her! Yes, he is a predator, but a damsel in distress? Come on. She did it because she wanted to. Simple

We are waiting on the polygraph, nobody know when they will be open again. We were told to get in touch in two weeks. I will let you know

They made-out for a few minutes, hands wandering, his on her leg and then he put his hand under her skirt. She didn't want that so she put his hand away and they stopped kissing and then he took her wrist and put it on his dick telling her something along the lines of how hard she makes him

Skin on skin? Big question. It takes a bit of time and effort to expose an erection to the open air from the driver seat. And once it's out in the open the chances of more having happened are extremely high.

Get the timeline details of all time they had alone together and tell her she will be polygraphed against those exact descriptions of the events.

page 43(i think) of Neanderthal's Lost my Best Friend thread will show you how bad it can get.

Guvinez,

You said:

Your WW's story has big differences from LifeDestroyer. LD's story was too weak to be believed by anyone and she hadn't any proof to corroborate what she said. She knew that her husband had a thread on SI and she tried to use SI to manipulate him. She wrote here everything her husband would like to hear, as if she were writing to tell her story and take opinions. Ethically, spouses supposedly don't read each other's threads. Come on, what world do we live in? That's why I think that SI should stay as safe haven and and WS' shouldn't know this site.

LD was actually a BW before she became a MH.

That is all I am saying on that matter and I will not t/j Mr. Flibble thread anymore on that story. You can go back and read the husband's thread on where he has updated his orginal starting thread on the subject.

Skin on skin? Big question. It takes a bit of time and effort to expose an erection to the open air from the driver seat

2nd base from my understanding which is touching over clothing.

From my reading of your latest posts, you're not so much upset at the action itself but that it wasn't disclosed earlier. It does bother me that if she was upset at the boundary crossing but she didn't pull out of the A. But that concern was there before the additional info.

Lies about reasons are complicated. When you do or don't do something because x,y, & z, is it a lie when you say z if it's not the primary reason? Like in this case your WW lied by omitted this info in her previous full disclosure. X&Y were her shame over what she did and her fear of losing you and were likely the prominent reasons for the omission. Z being that she feared you will kill SH. Reasons change also. Her reasons to omit back in November are likely different then they were last month. She did come clean on her own. The only matter here is whether or not she's being completely honest and that's something that's hard to prove. A counselor would have likely poked at whether or not that was the only reason. It may be time to start MC. They should help you navigate some of the tough conversations you will be having over the next few years.

This is a detail that she didn't need to disclose. I personally don't see it any worse or better than him getting his hand under her skirt. I don't think this in itself changed much in the overall story. It does worry me that there's more minor details that she's leaving out. I do doubt you missed something major like they went much further than what you already know, but I tend towards optimistic realism. That is it doesn't hurt to be optimistic as long as you plan for the worse.

[This message edited by grubs at 9:34 AM, March 2nd (Tuesday)]

Jadedangel,

I read Neanderthal's thread first, then LD's. What I said was not about your post but MrFlibbe's sentence below.

I can see a lot of similarities between her and my wife which makes me anxious.

If there weren't those texts, I definitely would say "no way" for her story, still can't say completely "ok".

I'd read Neanderthal's original thread as well. The polygraph was the turning point....for bad and for good. I know that there have been threads upon threads upon threads about the pro and cons of a polygraph, but in this case, it did exactly what it was meant to do....prove that she was lying.

At least at that point, she seemed to have turned the corner for bettering herself. You won't believe how many people, to this day, claim that their polygraph results were incorrect. That is why I always say, if you don't believe in them, then don't do it. You would be basically calling your wife's bluff on something that you won't accept as valid. But as long as you have a belief that they are reasonably accurate, then the polygraph can be a tool for both of you to start rebuilding trust.

You were right, there was more. She broke down yesterday and gave me new timeline and wants to go to that polygraph to prove that's really it.

Still adamant there was no sex. I am crushed

You were right, there was more. She broke down yesterday and gave me new timeline and wants to go to that polygraph to prove that's really it.

Still adamant there was no sex. I am crushed

It took me a long time to demonstrate to my WW that it wasn’t what she DID that was killing our relationship, it was what she was DOING that was killing our relationship.

My wife fucked my friend for several years. I knew this the first night she confessed because she admitted that. What nearly drove me to divorce her was that the details kept shifting, the story never made sense, the truth was never simply laid out on the table. It was two and a half years later that she finally just put the entire story out for me. In between initially confessing the existence and duration of the affair and before the full and final disclosure, she lied about details to minimize the harm she thought the truth would do to me. It had the opposite impact, it made me furious, more distrustful, and more hurt.

In retrospect, I should have forced her hand long before I did.

My advice to any cheater: just tell the whole truth from the beginning and let the chips fall where they may.

My advice to any betrayed: lance the boil, one way or the other. Until you get to the point you believe what you have been told, you will not begin to get better.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 7:25 AM, March 4th (Thursday)]

Cheaters are like criminals: It's not the original crime that is the worst of it, it's the coverup. Trickle truth is another nice term for coverup.

Many possible R's never happened in many cases since the constant stream of lies made it impossible for any basis of trust to be formed with the cheater. And the cheater always claim they're trying to spare the BS from more harm.

In fact, they're trying to spare themselves for having to admit what they really did and facing the consequence for it. Stupidly, they go the coverup route and make it much much worse.