SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She knows I have enough from her confession and writings to walk away today.

I choose to believe it was a perfect storm. A horrible terrible chapter in a long marriage.

Holding her feet to the fire would result in a wife with charred feet.

I happen to love her feet. They walked where they should not have and I will always have that hurt. I can hope her feet have paralleled mine ever since.

Hope and love and mutual honesty and digging towards understanding seems like a great basis for a future. Should she falter or fail ahead, I will not be investigating or understanding, I will be fleeing...

Sounds like a good recipe for rug sweeping.

Mrplspls

I'm sorry you are here, I too found out years later that my husband had cheated on me. He told me very little about any of them. To him it was nothing, met them in bars and hooked up while he worked out of town. And the usual I don't remember, I forgot. I'm sure I will never know the truth. I was young at the and I believed him. I let him rugsweep everything back then. He said all the right things, quit drinking, seemed to have changed. My husband has always had a job where there is travel involved.

Through the years I would catch him in a lie about something dumb. He's always been the funny guy, flirty, and always made me feel uncomfortable after finding out about the infidelity.

Four years ago I caught him in another lie that just sent me over the edge, this lie he was trying to fool me about something I knew. This brought back all the infidelity issues that we had rugswept so many years before, all the lies it took for him to deceive me, the hiding things, that night I found out he had pretty much been drinking behind my back while out of town, he swears he's never cheated again but I will never know the truth.

I will never know the truth, he did go to some counciling, he had some foo issues that he shared with me at that point but I have dealt with foo issues as well, and I had shared those from day one. I never cheated on my husband.

I hope you can get the answers you need to move forward in whatever way feels right for you. I stayed years ago and there are days I wish I had left. He took away so much from our marriage. It will never be pure, we were one and only. I don't look at him the same way, he's no longer on that pedestal I put him on. I don't love him the same way. This person is someone I don't know I would have married if I had known what kind of person he was.

Since the four years when it all came out he went to counciling, I have seen a big change in him as far as being honest, I have all access to accounts, he has no social media accounts, I do feel like he finally gets what he has done and the pain he has caused. Do I trust him completely? No, I don't think I ever will.

Take the advice that works and feels right to you, I wish you all the best in your situation, I know what its like its been 30 plus years since the infidelity (that I know of) it never goes away.

Mrplspls

Since you two have a professional guide (your psychiatrist) then maybe ask him what he thinks of some basic requirement a lot of us here on SI have stated:

Does he think you need the whole story – the whole truth – to move on?

Does he believe your wife has been totally truthful?

If yes – then does he think you can move on based on what you know?

If no - then does he think you can move on based on what you know?

Do you agree with him? Friend – considering you are paying for the services you SHOULD at least want to agree with him.

Yeah, but you did drugs…

She has admitted to me that she preferred the version of her that I blindly knew, loved, adored and wanted to have children with. She hated herself as the cheater and my rug sweeping choices made me the best place to be, the best man for her and the best road to a good life...

mrplspls - As a fellow "found out 3 decades later" BS, this is something I encountered as well. Last weekend, I had a sort of breakthrough. I've been probing for truth for a long time now, getting closer to what I believe is the whole truth, or at least more than the ridiculous story I was fed 4 years ago. I'm a logical guy, and was pointing out to my WW that two opposite things cannot be true. I brought up the fact that she has always insisted she had never so much as smoked a cigarette, done any drugs, etc. Yet, one of her trickle-truth admissions was that she had smoked pot with AP. My pointing out that her "never, ever" story was a lie (often repeated) made her irate. Some of that Returned Anger you are experiencing.

So what gives? I kept pressing, and she finally blurted out "That's not the person I want to be!" Not that she was worried I or the children would think less of her. It's such a trivial thing, why would we? This is something I had never considered before - that a person would lie in order to avoid a truth about themselves, even a trivial one, and cling to that lie in the face of clear evidence. A rewriting of their internal narrative, if you will.

The point is that your WW's journey into self-reflection (and yours as well) must include coming to terms with who she really is, and not just who she'd like to be. She may well be wife/mom of the year now, but she is also a wife who cheated on her husband and lied about it for decades. That will always be part of her, and it must be confronted and then dealt with for reconciliation to have a chance. Anything less falls into a rug-sweeping, limbo hell for you. Clearly with your WW's childhood she has a lot to unpack. IC for her should be a demand as one of the conditions for you to consider R.

Thank you pureheartkit

Better to have the truth. It makes more sense now looking back. Everybody wants to know the reality of their life.

I hope it brings more peace of mind to you. It's better for her too to face it and grow to be a better person. We can all improve.

It hurts badly now but will get better. Let the feelings come up and don't hide them. Honesty in all things, words and actions. All the love from years past was real between you and no reason to cast that in a dark light unless you want to create more pain.

Your words help. There have been moments of struggle and pain where I have wished the questions of the summer had not led to confession and my wife has questioned her confession now that she knows just how much pain to me she caused.

Hoping that our rocky path can be one to improvement.

A few corrections and answers

Since you two have a professional guide (your psychiatrist) then maybe ask him what he thinks of some basic requirement a lot of us here on SI have stated:

Does he think you need the whole story – the whole truth – to move on?

Does he believe your wife has been totally truthful?

If yes – then does he think you can move on based on what you know?

If no - then does he think you can move on based on what you know?

Do you agree with him? Friend – considering you are paying for the services you SHOULD at least want to agree with him.

Our professional guide is a psychologist.

Our guide is female.

She does not feel that the whole story is needed. That might be a mighty wrong headed approach considering memories of 32 and 33 years ago might be fuzzy, incorrect, gone.

I believe my wife has made a brave attempt. She does express disgust at herself, at that entire chapter, the environment she was in, the horrible choices she made, the lack of communication and consideration, the selfishness she displayed, the hurt she caused.

The path ahead is not paved with certainty. Knowing my wife at her worst is one thing, living a future with her as she is today is another. Our guide is also Buddhist and therefore an acceptance of life as broken, people as broken and the goal is to be awake to these uncertainties and frailties is to be both human and to love another human....

Can my love play a part in her redemption? We both have paths to follow....

Our professional guide is a psychologist.

Our guide is female.

She does not feel that the whole story is needed.

The person who decides what you need to move forward and able to live decently is you.

Straight up, it sounds like your Psychologist is encouraging rugsweeping.

That might be a mighty wrong headed approach considering memories of 32 and 33 years ago might be fuzzy, incorrect, gone.

I am not sure what you mean with this phrasing.

Is it wrong-headed from the Psychologist's perspective to say you don't need the full picture?

Or is your perspective of wanting to know more/all of the entire picture (My speculation on your desire) wrong headed?

***

I can tell you this for sure: IF this was your wife's only affair/transgression(s), then fucking some man outside of your marriage is a BIG DEAL in one's life. She remembers a whole lot of it.

If the story is short and hazy, then she is "protecting you".

Especially at this point, little details are difficult. But I don't think you are asking whether he put his right arm or left arm around her. You want to know WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.

So no, the important memories are not gone! She knows how long the relationship lasted. She knows if it started earlier or ended later than what she has told you. She knows if she has had further contact with him - of any kind - since the time she admitted to during your 3+ decade marriage. She knows if there were any additional inappropriate actions, relationships, or communications with any other men.

Any further betrayal it is not "gone" either, unless your wife is like Westway's wife and I will let you read his story so you can understand what I mean.

You decide what you need. Not me, any other poster, family members, your wife, a psychologist, therapist, etc.

All we can do is advise you!

And my advice remains the same. Learn as much of the truth as you can, and then process it lest doubt eat away at you. Then you decide how to proceed with your life brother.

I suggest you re-read what @MyShovel and @Lillotta83 shared with you above.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:30 PM, October 27th (Tuesday)]

She does not feel that the whole story is needed.

I agree with your psych for a few reasons. First, it was a long time ago, and I guarantee the memories are hazy. Second, getting the whole story is an absolute bottomless pit. You have it, and then you think some more and want to ask more questions, and then more; you can never get it all. There is always more to ask.

And yet...

It's not really about the story.

If you do ask, then she needs to answer with zero reservation or evasion, attitude or discontent. Just stand in the storm and answer you. That is her job.

And if she is not at this point, if she is counting on the psych to give her cover, then you need to lean in and keep asking until she has flipped a switch, the light has come on, and she understands it is as much about if and how she answers, as it is about the actual answer. Because the "if and how" speaks to who she is today, right now, right this minute.

You are asking questions about the past, but you're as much asking about who she is right now.

So keep asking until who she is, is someone who is totally supportive to your healing first and foremost. With no imposed time limit.

Sending strength!

Bigger, you sure got me there. Guess I better turn myself in.

Mr P. I don’t see how you are rugsweeping. You are numb and stressed and angry and hurt and conflicted.

But it looks to me like you are doing what you can. You can’t put this genie back in the bottle. So all you can do is the best you can.

I don’t know if your wife gets what it is like for a guy like us. To have the certain knowledge that your wife at her most desirable was giving it away and loving it, and then kissing you when you get home and asking about your day. It’s infuriating beyond description.

And so she needs to be in contrition and humility mode, not defensive mode. Perhaps your counselor can make her see this.

Often what appears to a be "need to know more" is really just the need to keep asking until the WS finally presents themselves as honest in their answers. If you think the WS is still not being honest with their answers or is evasive, it is likely the BS will "need" to keep asking until the liar is not lying anymore. That is what often drives the need to keep asking.

Our professional guide is a psychologist.

Our guide is female.

She does not feel that the whole story is needed.

This is very typical. The majority of experts and practicing therapists agree that not every detail is necessary, particularly the sexual details. The line of thought is that every new detail creates an additional trigger, something for the mind to ruminate upon. Knowing every fact isn't as important as knowing that your WS is willing to be honest with you. IOW, you don't have to ask every question, you just have to KNOW that any question you ask will be answered honestly.

In my own situation, I thought about the questions I wanted to ask and passed them through the lens of "how does getting this answer help ME?" Sometimes, as I pondered a question, I would realize it was just morbid curiosity and I'd let it go. Other times, getting the answer provided insight. Your therapist isn't wrong, but maybe the presentation might have been? This process should be under your purview. You get to decide what you need to know. But you really should think about your questions before you ask them and determine whether they're helping your process.

She does not feel that the whole story is needed. That might be a mighty wrong headed approach

Hmm, well, I think that is a mighty dangerous approach. How did that work out for you the past 33 years, not knowing the whole story? It festered.

Food for thought.

No one is saying your wife can recreate every detailed scene. But she can give you the whole truth and she knows exactly what that means. If she gives a damn, she will do it.

mrplspls, been reading thru the thread.

The basics are your wife betrayed you- your love, your trust, your faith. She wanted to marry her POS but as it turned out she had to stay with you, and chose to accept that.

Then, for decades she lived a lie against you. She had her wild time with the man she wanted to marry but made the best of it with you. I give her no style points for this.

Then, when it was safe and convenient for her, she told you about it all.

And here you are.

As to your questions about the pain and how to cope and for how long..... There are no specific answers aside from saying it will take years- if not the rest of your life. To be honest, I feel you have been treated worse than if she had told you way back when.

I might suggest if you don't what to do, then here are a couple of thoughts. First, try a few months apart from each other. If the kid(s) want to know why, tell them. Show your wife what honesty is. But in that time, continue to run thru the range of emotions we all had/have to face. Think carefully if this is the person you want & need to spend the rest of your life with. If so, then try and R. The second thought is to stay together but develop your own life apart from her. DO thing alone, with family or friends.... and essentially be roommates. You can be civil and such, but emotionally detach from her. Maybe permanent separate bedrooms... At least you will be together to help each other in your senior years.

But the pain, mind games, triggers... will be with you for many years. It's just the prison we are placed in.

I wish you well.

I think it’s you that determines what level of assurance and truth you need. You CAN decide you have enough but realize that you then need to embrace that decision. Trying to reconcile with constant doubt doesn’t work. This is why I emphasize knowing the truth

Truth can have various forms.

Some truths are constant: 1+1=2

Some are relative: 500 years ago, we thought the truth was that the Sun and planets revolved around Earth.

Some are subjective: If you truly think you saw an UFO then that’s true to you.

I can accept that your W truth might not be “true”. I can accept she’s forgotten a lot. I can accept that some of what was true +30 years ago isn’t and maybe never was true. I can also easily understand that she might forget things. Like if you ask her if OM was ever in your car, or if she wore the bracelet you gave her that Christmas when out with him… Maybe she truly doesn’t remember details that don’t hold the same value to her.

But frankly that’s not the truth I think you need. In fact, it’s not so much the truth you need as assurance. That assurance can be gotten by using the truth as a tool.

The assurance you need is that you can gain a sense or feeling that you know the main bits. You need an assurance that your wife trusts you with the truth and is committed to recovery.

For example: If you were to ask her if she ever met OM after the affair ended:

THAT would be something she would remember. THAT would be a classic yes or no poly question.

If she tells you no, then fails a poly you know she’s not being honest.

If she tells you that she ran into him by coincidence at the Mall back in 1997 but didn’t talk… THAT would be an innocent, non-planned encounter and knowing it beforehand would enable the operator to reword the contact question.

If she admitted the affair started again 1994 for a weekend in Reno then that too is something you could digest, appreciate she was honest and evaluate the effect on recovery.

However, … If you were to discover by yourself that either of the two scenarios, I listed had taken place after months of MC and IC… THAT would be more damaging.

Personally – if I were in your shoes – these three questions would be on my poly list, and by passing them I would feel a lot safer moving on.

(i) being assured that the affair was over when she says it was over,

(ii) that there has not been any contact since when she says there was last contact

(iii) that other than OM and you she has not been intimate with another man since you married

But then mrplspls, paying a specialist for advice and guidance only makes sense if you follow what they say. Maybe check better on the truth-issue because I honestly don’t see how my three suggestions can be forgotten. Yet IMHO they might hold the key to recovery.

bpguy

She wanted to marry her POS but as it turned out she had to stay with you, and chose to accept that.

No evidence of that at all.

Mr P. Do you really think your wife is going to sit for a poly?

Is there any point on beating this dead horse?

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 9:36 PM, October 27th (Tuesday)]

No evidence of that at all.

Sir, didn’t you quote your WW as telling you she was leaving you for him, loved him...if he would have her?

That is pretty clear proof she chose him over you and he rejected her, so she settled for her backup plan.

I don’t know how you accept that treatment.

OP

I know you are going thru lot of pain. I have read your posts in the other forum too. All the posters have been thru the pain. You need to give enuff time to let your feelings settle down before deciding on the future course of action. Haste will only excarbate the issues.

To respond to your other post

It is not about revenge.. Past is gone and payback if any should be incidental to your main focus.. It is you.

You have to live with WS 24x7 so unless you are comfortable, anyone else's feelings do not matter.

I quote your post dt 10/15. May the force be with you.

WS had an unguarded comment at the end of June, about boss kissing her at a 87 party, but then coming home to me for fun. When I asked hey, how often? She replied about keeping me guessing. She had forgotten about a comment she had made to me, turns out very late in her affair in 88, that she was in love with him and was going with him “if he’d have her”. As she never left, I always guessed that she had been rejected by him. Turns out that was a lie, she felt no love for him, just physical semi chemistry and a boss using his authority for his selfish reasons on a young wife/employee.

So the 2020 confession was not offered freely,

[This message edited by btdi at 12:13 AM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

You could replace any reference to a poly in my last post with assurance.

i.e. what you need is assurance. A poly would only be a tool to get that assurance. If you have any other idea on how to get that assurance, then that’s great. I am TOTALLY open for that. Doesn’t have to be a poly, it could be other direct or circumstantial evidence that corroborates her story. Main thing IMHO is that at some point – the sooner the better – you need to feel able to let go of the doubts and discovery stage and move into the reconciliation stage.

I mention the poly because to me that would be the quickest way to get that assurance, but frankly it would be enough if YOU simply decide you have enough to move on.

Just to be clear: Polygraphs are not a one-step solution and if done correctly they serve to the benefit of BOTH. The ideal result is that the WS passes, supporting the decision they were truthful. If they do then it requires the BS to let go of some issues and move on. IMHO it should be a one-off thing, sort of a litmus test of if the marriage has the foundations to build on.

About her in love quote and all this plan A and B BS…

Imagining that you are in love is a lot better than acknowledging what you are doing is plain and simple wrong and is done for the ego-kibbles and validation it offers. It’s like all excuses people make all the time to explain why they do things that are wrong. Notice I don’t mention anything emotional in the “assurance” questions? Emotional tend to be relative truth.

Mr P. Do you really think your wife is going to sit for a poly?

Is there any point on beating this dead horse?

If she’s unwilling to do this, it speaks volumes about her and her honesty. It’s not like electro shock therapy or someone driving screws under her fingernails. A cooperative WS who wants to assure their betrayed spouse of their truthfulness can sit in a comfortable chair and do it in less than two hours.

Compare that to the months and months of deliberate lies while she arranged to have sex with another man repeatedly (apparently even after touring Europe with you) and then spent decades more continuing to lie about it. All of the time and energy she stole from your marriage when you'd been married less than 1.5 years. Then rubbing your face in it telling you she loved another man and was prepared to leave you. Then just sweeping the whole thing under the rug and pretending for more than a quarter of a century that nothing much happened.

It's hard to even think about all of the resources and time and energy she put into all of this. And she can't plant her butt in a chair for an hour or two and answer a few simple questions?

That's too much?

It’s not asking much. It’s not asking really anything at all from her in the way of sacrificial love - just that she act like an adult and willing to assure you have the whole truth.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:30 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]